Yes, the vampire with blooddrinking hair has arrived! This is the sort of bullshit fights I watch JoJo for!

... Well that, and the endless amounts of unashamed homoerotic tenshion.
 
As is I mostly know Mary Queen of Scots for her part in the whole 'Catholics and Protestants trade the crown, outlaw the rival faith, follow up with murder and persecution' phase our history went through.

Mary, Queen of Scots--who is not Mary I Tudor, Queen of England--allied with Scottish Protestant nobility against certain Catholic nobles who had their own base of power, and only reinvented herself as a super-loyal ultraCatholic once Elizabeth imprisoned her. This was done in hopes of getting Philip II of Spain to intervene on her behalf. This did not work--Philip saw Elizabeth and England as a counterweight to his archrival France, to which Mary was aligned. Of course, he did use Mary's execution as part of the justification for the Spanish Armada, but by that point, the political situation had changed, and Mary was, of course, quite dead.
 
Mary was also the protagonist in an absolutely godawful CW "history" drama that somehow got 4 seasons despite the writers clearly not giving the slightest of fucks about historical accuracy, originality, or remembering that a character was stabbed in the neck and left for dead 2 episodes ago, so now is suddenly fine with no explanation or repercussions to being stabbed in the neck and left for dead.
 
Mary was also the protagonist in an absolutely godawful CW "history" drama that somehow got 4 seasons despite the writers clearly not giving the slightest of fucks about historical accuracy, originality, or remembering that a character was stabbed in the neck and left for dead 2 episodes ago, so now is suddenly fine with no explanation or repercussions to being stabbed in the neck and left for dead.
Oh, right. I remember seeing ads for that during Supergirl. It looked terrible.
 
Eh. In my experience, that's just as often a problem regardless of whether or not the mcguffin is explicitly referred to as magic. Poorly defined forces are poorly defined forces, regardless of the name and genre trappings.

Basically, "magic" is not necessarily synonymous with "no rules, anything can happen at any time."

Certainly, but it's a trend that when authors call something 'magic' they frequently consider that adequate explanation where pseudoscience that avoids the 'magic' label has a habit of actually offering a mechanical explanation with implications that may or may not be followed up on at a later date. If someone's burning rage can conveniently convert ice to steam in one scene, this may actually be Mcguyvered into a reasonably logical alternative use for such tremendous heat in a later scene.

'I have a magical spell that conveniently converts ice into steam' is a lot more likely to be a one-off thing that strains disbelief, particularly as the pile of such effects accumulate -in fact, a notable thing pseudoscience explanations often do is tie back multiple distinct techniques to an originally-established core explanation (eg Hamon/Ripple/whatever) with new uses being invented/discovered as the story progresses. A wizard is way more likely to be sitting on an arbitrarily large number of spells that they've had all of since chapter 1, with the author utterly failing to realize that Book 3 Chapter 5's introduction of A Spell That Solves This Situation should logically have cropped up in Book 1 Final Chapter and completely broken the scene. (ala the 'Wizard Gandalf using D&D spells to teleport to Mount Doom and be immune to the Ring's influence and so on' meme)

And to a certain extent this distinction is a bit inevitable: saying something is 'magic' is, for a lot of people, a mental shorthand for disobeying conventional physics, with no mechanics baseline associated with it. (Particularly before D&D came along and provided a standard mechanical framework to hang a lot concepts on, one of the more notable being the concept of antimagical effects. Magic as a distinct force that can be targeted in its own right isn't nearly so common in stories prior to D&D becoming widespread) Magic isn't even an explanation at that point, but a word meaning 'the author knows this violates physics and does not care'. Providing a bullshit pseudoscience explanation means providing actual mechanics, however bizarre and unreal they might be, and tends to imply the author does care about some minimum degree of consistency/realism. The latter opens the way to be thinking about your story and end up thinking something like 'you know, logically speaking, if X is true then Y follows which means in Z scene K should happen'. The former is not merely vague or poorly-defined, but actively encourages a writer to ignore any implications that should occur, hence 'it's magic I ain't gotta explain shit'. (ie magical fireballs will fail to heat up a room, fail to consume oxygen, and otherwise not really behave like fire, Because Magic. Pseudoscience fireballs produced by some bullshit process using the oxygen in one's blood or something are way more likely to behave like actual fire aside the bizarre origin)

So yes it's not an absolute, but it's a pretty strong trend, and for strong reasons.
 
I mean thus far we have that it requires proper breathing pattern and blood circulation, needs something to serve to conduct it, can increase the surface tension of water and wine, is conducted through water but not ice, can be used to dampen pain, mends the body so long as proper circulation and breathing is in place, is attracted to living things, and therefore can be used to detect them, and generally doesn't cause damage to living (non-vampire) things, but can be used to cause significant damage to inorganic items.

Some of those admittedly are more one off than others (life detection hasn't really been used since Jack), but the surface tension trick in particular is notable for being used in multiple ways, both as an attack and to walk across water. The other major thing the list of traits thus far do is establish a fail condition. Your breathing breaks or you lose too much blood and you're probably soon to be dead against the vampiric killing machine you're fighting. It also establishes what can and can't be healed by the Hamon. Broken bones or dislocated shoulders are A-okay, so long as circulation is intact it fixes them. Actual significant injuries like losing an arm aren't fixable though, as you don't have the requisite circulation to apply it with.

It's not the most closed or well defined of systems, but it does serve the basic purpose of allowing narrative tension and some problem solving through interesting tricks instead of just pulling a new spell out of nowhere or running out of mana. Admittedly sometimes there are new spells out of nowhere (poor Jack), but it's not every single time a new trick comes to light. The whole thing with diving for air in the lake serves as a decent example. The lack of air in the environment gives a good reason that Jojo can't just fight his way out again, while the conductivity of water has been previously established, so there's a reason why it turned around so thoroughly once he did get his air.
 
A wizard is way more likely to be sitting on an arbitrarily large number of spells that they've had all of since chapter 1, with the author utterly failing to realize that Book 3 Chapter 5's introduction of A Spell That Solves This Situation should logically have cropped up in Book 1 Final Chapter and completely broken the scene. (ala the 'Wizard Gandalf using D&D spells to teleport to Mount Doom and be immune to the Ring's influence and so on' meme)
Every complaint you level at magic applies to pseudoscience as well. How many episodes of Star Trek spin-offs had a problem that the transporter or replicator could have easily solved if they didn't give some technobabble excuse why it wasn't working this week? How many episodes of The Flash would have been over by the first commercial break if Barry didn't constantly forget about his own powers? (All of them. The answer is all of them. Barry is an imbecile.) The only thing the audience knows about how magic works is what the author has told them, so the author only needs to be consistent with themselves. When somebody uses pseudoscience they're describing it using real words that mean things, and people in the audience know that what they're saying is bullshit. If you say that cold emits in the ultraviolet, that iron oxide is a rare material that provides a vital clue, that you can freeze laser beams and break them off, that you have trouble breaking the sound barrier one week but can move at relativistic speeds another, and that the black hole that's going to destroy the Earth has less energy than a mosquito, people are going to notice, and none of those examples were hypothetical.

Saying, "Hamon did it," is no better than saying, "A wizard did it," or "It's because of Aura."
 
Every complaint you level at magic applies to pseudoscience as well. How many episodes of Star Trek spin-offs had a problem that the transporter or replicator could have easily solved if they didn't give some technobabble excuse why it wasn't working this week? How many episodes of The Flash would have been over by the first commercial break if Barry didn't constantly forget about his own powers? (All of them. The answer is all of them. Barry is an imbecile.) The only thing the audience knows about how magic works is what the author has told them, so the author only needs to be consistent with themselves. When somebody uses pseudoscience they're describing it using real words that mean things, and people in the audience know that what they're saying is bullshit. If you say that cold emits in the ultraviolet, that iron oxide is a rare material that provides a vital clue, that you can freeze laser beams and break them off, that you have trouble breaking the sound barrier one week but can move at relativistic speeds another, and that the black hole that's going to destroy the Earth has less energy than a mosquito, people are going to notice, and none of those examples were hypothetical.

Saying, "Hamon did it," is no better than saying, "A wizard did it," or "It's because of Aura."


Alright, I understand you have some frustration with the Flash series, but that's really not how Jojo's Bizarre Adventure works.

Don't get me wrong, they pull out all the stops on unbelievable B.S., but they're pretty consistent about their unbelievable B.S. They're going to use the unbelievable B.S. of the week they just discovered out of nowhere for many, many weeks to come. Unless it's been a while and the writers think nobody in the audience cares anymore.

Jojo's Bizarre Adventure cannot have a traditional ice magic staff unless it's the legendary ice magic staff of critical plot importance. All the allied powers and skills and stuff have to be permutations of abilities the characters explicitly have. All the enemy powers and skills have to either be consistent with the opponent's theme, or a permutation of that theme built on (wrong) physics.

Having a character that can shoot out magic
without a stand that lets them shoot out magic
just isn't allowed. Unless they protagonists loudly proclaimed their intention of taking on the legendary magic wizard. In which case the wizard would have 3 clearly defined spells or something like water, fire, and lightning. Then, the wizard would cleverly draw fire magic from the water or something when he wants to create an ice spear. That's just the rules.

Like, imagine if I took Star Trek and introduced Albus Dumbledore to the setting, using magic to do stuff. That would break the rules of Star Trek. It's the same thing with Jojo's Bizarre Adventure.

So, no, Dio cannot have ice magic in the traditional sense. If he has the ability to create ice, it has to be for a b.s. reason like total body control. Him having plain old ice magic is simply against the rules.
 
Last edited:
Everything I read about fate makes me more and more convinced that the guy who made it is from a reality where the universe itself is high.

Same with JoJo's, but sadly Araki got the good shit while Nasu's stock is more mixed.

Clearly it's actually because Speedwagon's SUPERIOR SWEDISH BLOODLINE TECHNIQUE gives him the core temperature of a full-grown seal.

Pfft, please, he's so British that he'll make you miserable just by touching you, he probably learnt it to deal with the rain and the fog.
 
Last edited:
Alright, I understand you have some frustration with the Flash series, but that's really not how Jojo's Bizarre Adventure works.

Don't get me wrong, they pull out all the stops on unbelievable B.S., but they're pretty consistent about their unbelievable B.S. They're going to use the unbelievable B.S. of the week they just discovered out of nowhere for many, many weeks to come. Unless it's been a while and the writers think nobody in the audience cares anymore.

Jojo's Bizarre Adventure cannot have a traditional ice magic staff unless it's the legendary ice magic staff of critical plot importance. All the allied powers and skills and stuff have to be permutations of abilities the characters explicitly have. All the enemy powers and skills have to either be consistent with the opponent's theme, or a permutation of that theme built on (wrong) physics.

Having a character that can shoot out magic
without a stand that lets them shoot out magic
just isn't allowed. Unless they protagonists loudly proclaimed their intention of taking on the legendary magic wizard. In which case the wizard would have 3 clearly defined spells or something like water, fire, and lightning. Then, the wizard would cleverly draw fire magic from the water or something when he wants to create an ice spear. That's just the rules.

Like, imagine if I took Star Trek and introduced Albus Dumbledore to the setting, using magic to do stuff. That would break the rules of Star Trek. It's the same thing with Jojo's Bizarre Adventure.

So, no, Dio cannot have ice magic in the traditional sense. If he has the ability to create ice, it has to be for a b.s. reason like total body control. Him having plain old ice magic is simply against the rules.

*whoosh*
 
Every complaint you level at magic applies to pseudoscience as well. How many episodes of Star Trek spin-offs had a problem that the transporter or replicator could have easily solved if they didn't give some technobabble excuse why it wasn't working this week? How many episodes of The Flash would have been over by the first commercial break if Barry didn't constantly forget about his own powers? (All of them. The answer is all of them. Barry is an imbecile.) The only thing the audience knows about how magic works is what the author has told them, so the author only needs to be consistent with themselves. When somebody uses pseudoscience they're describing it using real words that mean things, and people in the audience know that what they're saying is bullshit. If you say that cold emits in the ultraviolet, that iron oxide is a rare material that provides a vital clue, that you can freeze laser beams and break them off, that you have trouble breaking the sound barrier one week but can move at relativistic speeds another, and that the black hole that's going to destroy the Earth has less energy than a mosquito, people are going to notice, and none of those examples were hypothetical.

Saying, "Hamon did it," is no better than saying, "A wizard did it," or "It's because of Aura."

Star Trek's technobabble isn't pseudoscience. It's technobabble, which is literally the future-aesthetic version of 'it's magic I ain't gotta explain shit'. Star Trek doesn't try to create a coherent set of mechanics that happen to be based on not-really-accurate-to-reality science, it pretty much just says 'this is an engineering problem, so Geordi will say some engineering-speak and it will solve the problem'. There's some surprisingly coherent science in the background of the lore, and occasionally this even peeks into the surface layer -eg Borg bypassing shields because Star Trek shields oscillate which is a factoid that explains how phasers can fire out through shields and yet block opposing shields so the Borg do something adaptively technological to walk through shields- but generally when people are talking about phase deflectors or tachyons or whatever that's pretty much 'the captain asks his court wizard officer of relevance to cast a spell Do Something Scientific to fix the problem'.

The transporter, replicator, and holodeck suffer the most from the 'based on what's happened before, we ought to be able to solve this new problem with them', but that's because they're all tools of convenient/lazy writing first and foremost. The transporter was outright a way of getting around the fact that the original series didn't have the shuttle models ready in time! It's not even that they're vaguely defined, in fact their problems are that they are quite concretely defined as way too general, such that basic assumptions necessary to a lot of plot concepts are invalid if you take them seriously.

I'm not even sure why you're picking out the Flash as an example of 'pseudoscience' given last I heard the Flash is powered by the Speed Force and it's pretty much magic. Especially since your complaints are about him forgetting his powers, not 'Flash shouldn't be able to phase through walls by vibrating himself' (As seen in Teen Titans) or 'Flash shouldn't be able to run over water just because he's really fast' or 'Flash ought to go launching into orbit at the kinds of speeds he's running' or anything else that's an example of misuse of science.

You also seem to have glossed right over the part where I explicitly spoke of trends and was talking about the mechanics of thinking (ie why 'magic' tends to lead to non-explanations where pseudoscience tends to be wrong but lead to explanations and implications regardless) and instead produced 'counterexamples' that regardless of whether or not they fit as examples of pseudoscience running into the 'it's magic I ain't gotta explain shit' problem don't really fundamentally address what I said. I already acknowledged it's not an absolute rule, said so explicitly. 'Counterexamples' don't undermine my point, and they certainly don't do so when they aren't even examples of what you're ostensibly talking about, as per you bringing up The Flash for some reason.
 
Everything I read about fate makes me more and more convinced that the guy who made it is from a reality where the universe itself is high.
Fate takes place in an alternate timeline. And it must be mentioned that Servants can come from yet other timelines. Leading to one character to complain that all the handsome men from their(and our) timeline are all women in Fate's timeline, despite from Fate's(and our) perspective she's gender-flipped. And later, one of Fate's gender-flipped characters is surprised that said character is a woman. So there is a logic behind it.

Also, the creator's is generally portrayed as, and name means mushroom.
 
Last edited:
Star Trek's technobabble isn't pseudoscience. It's technobabble, which is literally the future-aesthetic version of 'it's magic I ain't gotta explain shit'.
Those are the same thing. Technobabble is just a nickname for the nonsense words that people say when they're using pseudoscience as a plot device. Pseudoscience and technobabble are just taking what's effectively magic and dressing it up in a "scientific" cosplay.


I'm not even sure why you're picking out the Flash as an example of 'pseudoscience' given last I heard the Flash is powered by the Speed Force and it's pretty much magic. Especially since your complaints are about him forgetting his powers, not 'Flash shouldn't be able to phase through walls by vibrating himself' (As seen in Teen Titans) or 'Flash shouldn't be able to run over water just because he's really fast' or 'Flash ought to go launching into orbit at the kinds of speeds he's running' or anything else that's an example of misuse of science.
All of those examples of bullshit pseudoscience I listed were also from The Flash, and none of them had anything to do with the Speed Force. I'm not complaining about Barry not catching fire from friction, because that's the kind of thing you expect to suspend disbelief about in a superhero story. The Speed Force doesn't explain why cold would radiate in the ultraviolet or rust would be a rare compound. The Greg Berlanti superhero shows are particularly egregious in this regard (last season Supergirl forgot that lead is poisonous to humans as well as aliens), but they're hardly unique in this regard. Leverage thought you could hack a fire alarm to set off the sprinklers. NCIS thought you could fight off hackers better if two people typed on the same keyboard at the same time. The Bionic Woman remake thought easy chairs could stop bullets.


You also seem to have glossed right over the part where I explicitly spoke of trends and was talking about the mechanics of thinking (ie why 'magic' tends to lead to non-explanations where pseudoscience tends to be wrong but lead to explanations and implications regardless) and instead produced 'counterexamples' that regardless of whether or not they fit as examples of pseudoscience running into the 'it's magic I ain't gotta explain shit' problem don't really fundamentally address what I said.
I'm saying that the trends you're talking about don't exist. Pseudoscience is treated pretty much exactly like magic by screenwriters. In both cases, good writers will try to maintain consistent rules for the sake of good storytelling and lazy ones will rely on "it's magic/science, I don't have to explain shit" as a cheap excuse. Such things occur with roughly equal frequency in both the genres of "scifi" and "fantasy."

The difference is that telling people made up shit about magic doesn't propagate ignorance of the real world among the audience. Pseudoscience does, to the point that the CSI franchise has actually done real damage to the criminal justice system by giving jurors unrealistic notions regarding forensics.
 
but that's because they're all tools of convenient/lazy writing first and foremost. The transporter was outright a way of getting around the fact that the original series didn't have the shuttle models ready in time! It's not even that they're vaguely defined

To be fair, that sounds a lot less like "lazy writing" and more like "writing around practical limitations." I really have no issue with a series doing that at all, because there's no helping it. The only real problem is that even after they got past those limitations they felt obliged to keep it.

Those are the same thing. Technobabble is just a nickname for the nonsense words that people say when they're using pseudoscience as a plot device. Pseudoscience and technobabble are just taking what's effectively magic and dressing it up in a "scientific" cosplay.

Not really. Like, in the literal sense of what those terms are supposed to mean, you're right, but in this context "technobabble" is being used to mean "dressing up magic as science." But that's a very distinct thing from the fact that every science fiction ever uses concepts or technologies that do not yet or even cannot possibly exist; hence the "fiction" in the genre's name.

Generally, most modern science fiction and fantasy stories that invoke either science or magic that don't exist take care to present it in a way that is internally consistent, i.e. it lays out some basic rules of what can and cannot be done and it usually only breaks them if there's some kind of explanation for it and it's dramatically appropriate (because narrative should always trump mechanics, IMO, as the latter only exists to service the former by allowing you to invest yourself in what's happening because you understand what's going on). If Superman's powers work because of sunlight, then that means depriving him of sunlight will eventually weaken him. It makes no sense that sunlight should give Superman the strength it does, but that's fine as long as the fact that he is solar-powered is treated consistently.

Fictional magic and fictional science are just fine as a focus of a setting if there's a coherent framework for the audience to understand; otherwise, magic or science should be treated in much the way magic used to be treated all the time in fiction, i.e. as something powerful but dangerous and not to be relied upon overmuch because it couldn't be understood by most people and often backfired on them in some way. Magic was always used as either a way to overcome an obstacle for the hero but not solve the plot (unless you count divine intervention as magic, because deus ex machina was a very cherished part of theater and the like for the longest time) or as an obstacle in itself, but Merlin was never the hero because, among other things, magic had no framework in those stories to explain what he could and could not do so Merlin could do whatever he wanted, which is a bad thing in a hero. But I digress.

The way Dio and Jonathan's power-ups work don't make scientific sense, but they are internally consistent. There is a coherency to them that gives you some idea of what you can and can't expect. Dio's vampirism is always couched in terms of working on physical mechanics; thus, he does not magically turn into a bat or wolf, he is not mindlessly compelled to count sesame seeds or rice grains spilled on the floor (yes that's actual vampire lore), and he isn't arbitrarily harmed just by seeing a very common geometric shape (i.e. a cross). His powers are all described as deriving from complete control over his own body and biology, and thus he only has powers that can be explained as being a part of that in some manner; yes, none of his powers should work in the manner described as working, but you can still grasp that his ice powers are based on the real phenomenon of evaporative cooling and properties of thermodynamics, and thus are, in fact, a result of his total control over his body and not "magic ice powers that I developed because vampire so fuck you."
 
Last edited:
I am totally ok with calling Hamon magic, but I think using that designation for the vampire shenanigans doesn't really do them justice. The very first instance of their Absolute Body Mastery being shown off is Dio lowering his blood pressure so hard that his blood evaporates, absorbing such a pile of thermal energy in the process that the temperature drops far enough to make anything touching his arms immediately freeze, this countering the blood flow stuff his opponent requires.
Does this process fit with our understanding of thermodynamics and physiology? No, definitely not.
Does Araki deserve some bonus points for all the sheer creativity coming up with this idea requires? I definitely think so.
 
I am totally ok with calling Hamon magic, but I think using that designation for the vampire shenanigans doesn't really do them justice. The very first instance of their Absolute Body Mastery being shown off is Dio lowering his blood pressure so hard that his blood evaporates, absorbing such a pile of thermal energy in the process that the temperature drops far enough to make anything touching his arms immediately freeze, this countering the blood flow stuff his opponent requires.
Does this process fit with our understanding of thermodynamics and physiology? No, definitely not.
Does Araki deserve some bonus points for all the sheer creativity coming up with this idea requires? I definitely think so.

Okay. What's the pseudoscience behind Dio turning into a shadow and disappearing into the night sky a minute later?

There's none provided, and it doesn't need any.

Dio is a vampire. Vampires in mythology and pop culture alike have a wide range of supernatural abilities. If Araki says that vampires can turn into shadows or teleport or whatever Dio is supposed to have done there, then fine. If Araki says that vampires can freeze things by touching them, then that's ALSO fine. There's no need to pretend that there's some sort of real world physics involved, and doing so just cheapens it even aside from raising the "wait, HOW did you say that's supposed to work?" issues.
 
Last edited:
Like, in the literal sense of what those terms are supposed to mean, you're right, but in this context "technobabble" is being used to mean "dressing up magic as science."
Yes, and I'm saying that's exactly what pseudoscience is. It's magical thinking dressed up in random, meaningless snippets of scientific jargon. This is true both in fiction and in real life pseudoscience beliefs like homeopathy. "Technobabble" is just a slang term for the use of the jargon. There's no meaningful difference between Star Trek's explanations of how their transporters work and Dio's explanation of his freezing powers. Both take an actual principle (matter-energy conversion, evaporative cooling) and apply it in dubious ways.


Generally, most modern science fiction and fantasy stories that invoke either science or magic that don't exist take care to present it in a way that is internally consistent, i.e. it lays out some basic rules of what can and cannot be done and it usually only breaks them if there's some kind of explanation for it and it's dramatically appropriate (because narrative should always trump mechanics, IMO, as the latter only exists to service the former by allowing you to invest yourself in what's happening because you understand what's going on).
I don't know if I would say that most take care to do so. Most well-written ones do, but the world is full of lazy writers who'll take the easy solution over consistency.

The blunt fact of the matter is that this isn't any more or less likely in (soft) science fiction than in fantasy. Pseudoscience and magic are both equally likely to be misused this way by lazy writers, and if anything, doing so with pseudoscience is even more obvious because the audience knows nothing about magic that you don't tell them, but they do understand at least some of how the real world around them works. And the more familiar the principle, the more obvious it will be. No human being has ever been teleported, but every human being alive sweats and has thus experienced evaporative cooling without having been encased in ice.


EDIT: It occurs to me that even if we ignore that, the internal logic of the scene also has problems. Dio is freezing things by ejecting and vaporizing his blood. He's a vampire. Isn't blood the source of his power? Isn't this a bit like a spy's car that creates oil slicks to deter pursuers by emptying its own gas tank? Also, isn't blood a major Hamon conductor? So for that moment that it's on his skin, isn't he extra vulnerable to Hamon attacks? And then once it's vaporized and in a cloud around him, doesn't that mean that the air has improved Hamon conductivity and ranged Hamon attacks will work extra well against him? And speaking of which, doesn't this entire defense depend on his enemies touching him so he can freeze their blood? We just saw that JoJo has ranged Hamon attacks! And if he can get Jack the Ripper through several feet of stone, then what protection is a few inches of ice going to be? Even if it was, his head wasn't encased in ice. As soon as Dio froze Zeppeli's arm, what was stopping JoJo from hitting Dio with an Overdrive?
 
Last edited:
Man, I can't wait to see the Jeff Goldblum expy teach the MC how to make Pizza shaped like a clock.
 
So... this is a thing that I just saw that would have made no sense to me before this Let's Watch started:

(Only playing the last fifteen seconds because that's the only part that's relevant to this thread.)



I am amused. :D
 
Last edited:
@The Narrator, I'm hardly the person capable of debating what does and doesn't count as "rule-prescribing use of magic in fictional settings", but could you PLEASE stop using the word "pseudoscience" to describe it. Pseudoscience is a term used to describe idiots and assholes trying to find excuses to, say, deem morally wrong-yet-universally-practiced behaviors like slavery or serfdom as "natural law", or claiming that white people should be called "caucasian" because the term-coiner thought women from the Caucasus nation-state of Georgia were the most beautiful women he ever laid eyes on. Try looking for a term that has less of a definition conflict, like "story magic" or "plot powers".
 
Last edited:
@The Narrator, I'm hardly the person capable of debating what does and doesn't count as "rule-prescribing use of magic in fictional settings", but could you PLEASE stop using the word "pseudoscience" to describe it. Pseudoscience is a term used to describe idiots and assholes trying to find excuses to, say, deem morally wrong-yet-universally-practiced behaviors like slavery or serfdom as "natural law", or claiming that white people should be called "caucasian" because the term-coiner thought women from the Caucasus nation-state of Georgia were the most beautiful women he ever laid eyes on. Try looking for a term that has less of a definition conflict, like "story magic" or "plot powers".
It is also commonly used to describe things outside of that. Such as things that are close to being sicentific that are not, or that are masquarading as science when really that's not how that works at all and science or the fields of science that are claimed to be in use have never even met this man using their name, identity, and likeness before. The official definition of Psuedoscience is "A collection of beliefs or practices mistakenly regarded as being based on scientific method.".

Just because something can be associated with racist ideas doesn't mean that the word is racist. Especially when the alternatives you're describing don't actually work in context. I can claim that Psuedoscience is a stupid term because it gets associated with Flat Earthers, that doesn't mean I have any right to yell at people to stop using it in any other context because I don't like Flat Earthers or because I think that means there's a "Definition Conflict" even though there's nothing to mistake about how it's being used or it's actual definition.

...hm, not what I expected to go off on today.
 
Okay. What's the pseudoscience behind Dio turning into a shadow and disappearing into the night sky a minute later?

There's none provided, and it doesn't need any.

Dio is a vampire. Vampires in mythology and pop culture alike have a wide range of supernatural abilities. If Araki says that vampires can turn into shadows or teleport or whatever Dio is supposed to have done there, then fine. If Araki says that vampires can freeze things by touching them, then that's ALSO fine. There's no need to pretend that there's some sort of real world physics involved, and doing so just cheapens it even aside from raising the "wait, HOW did you say that's supposed to work?" issues.
Actually, there is an explanation for that, admittedly one that I wasn't expecting to come up nearly this often when the Let's Watch started. Namely that David Productions did stupid stuff again. The shadow meld thing wasn't ever used in the manga, Dio just jumped away. They apparently decided to give him a new power that breaks the usual thematics of Jojo vampires to make one scene look slightly better.

On the plus side they actually significantly reduced the size of the exposition about the backstory of the Knights and removed a second entirely extraneous segment of it about Bruford in particular being legendary for bypassing a massive test of strength and endurance (best 77 enemy knights in a row, taking a weight off of each of them) by just using his hair to win despite that. Also his hair was significantly more hardcore in the manga, in that it actually burrowed into the executioner's flesh, killing him. So Bruford's ridiculous murder hair is apparently all natural, only bloodsucking added by the vampirism.
 
@The Narrator, I'm hardly the person capable of debating what does and doesn't count as "rule-prescribing use of magic in fictional settings", but could you PLEASE stop using the word "pseudoscience" to describe it.
You'll have to take that up with Ghoul King. He's the one who started using the term in this context to mean "really soft science fiction."

However, as someone else already noted, pseudoscience refers to a lot of dubious beliefs that people try to pass off as scientific, not just racist ones. At one point I mentioned homeopathy (the belief that diluting a few grains of herbs that would normally make you sick in water gives the water healing superpowers) as an example of a real-life pseudoscience. Someone else has mentioned Flat Earthers.
 
Back
Top