Daniel Estacado
ZA WARUDO
Stroheim's dub voice is pretty disappointing, as it sounds like the VA is doing an amateur Ahnald impersonation.
Let's Watch JoJo's Bizarre Adventure
- Thread starter Leila Hann
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It's weird how the small inclusion of that sign changes the context from "strangely cruel, if justifiable, act from the protagonist" to "pretty funny goof".
They probably wanted to remove the direct reference to Hitler for some editorial reason, but it's necessary to make the moment totally Looney Tunes.
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I wasn't actually alluding to the removal of the torture scene, if indeed the anime did so. I'm talking about how the anime has mostly made a persistent effort to make Joseph less of an asshole...
...and then it keeps the tied-to-a-cactus scene... and removes the sign that makes it a Looney Tunes moment...
... so. What was the point of removing/reworking those earlier bits? Like, I'd be annoyed in general if the anime was just plain softening Joseph, but there'd be a clear goal, and it would be easy to guess that there was any number of external pressures involved too. Instead, it's the character version of the timeline crap: change for its own sake, which sometimes doesn't really matter (Other than making these comparisons a pain) but sometimes has a rather pronounced impact on the experience, usually for the worse.
And it distorts the audience's likely read on Joseph, too. In the manga, tying the dude to a cactus is in line with everything Joseph has done to this point. He's bullied strangers, maimed people for life, and outright killed people without blinking and without needing to be pushed to do so. He's been a pretty constant string of assholery, peppered by suggestions he's not just an asshole. This is just more Joseph Being Joseph, in short.
In the anime, though, Joseph's lost some of the rough edges, enough so I have doubts most people watching it blind take it as More Joseph Being Joseph.
no.
Pink Flamingo Cabal Grand Vizier
- Location
- Pennsylvania
You're really overthinking this, dude. He's an asshole with a bad temper who cares about his loved ones but has little sense of collateral damage and has no issue being cruel to his enemies for an advantage or even for fun. Joseph's got layers, sure, but he's not incredibly complex. The anime portrays him fine.
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- Pronouns
- She/Her
"They are so muscular! And look at his abs! You can grate cheese on them!"
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Is what Ghoul King doing somewhat nitpicky and reading into those detail to an obsessive degree? I mean, probably, but A- that's kinda what this thread is about, and B- it's part of his charm.
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Well yes, but there comes a point at which one is criticizing the work purely as a result of one's overanalysis, which seems unfair. Like, is there a microscopic or even (gasp) milliscopic difference between two character portrayals? No doubt. But the basic portrayal ("sometimes an asshole, willing to seriously injure people who have wronged him or threatened him, but with an inner streak of nobility") is still broadly comparable. This oesn't sound like a case of the characterization being totally different.
They also look like this:
I consider their removal to be a good decision.
They also look like this:
I consider their removal to be a good decision.
Damn, who let these Attack on Titan trashmobs into a costume store?
The Narrator
Disembodied Voice
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- Somewhere Offscreen
It's too bad that they changed it. This episode would have been hilarious to watch while envisioning the monster with Carlos Santana's '70s pornstache.
They're a big name band among English-speakers, too. You'll hear them regularly on any classic rock station.
GilliamYaeger
M'crazy.
First song I'd ever heard from Santana was this, from waaaay back when I was a measly nine years old:
Was all over the pop stations as I recall, probably because the singer was the lead vocalist from Matchbox Twenty.
Was all over the pop stations as I recall, probably because the singer was the lead vocalist from Matchbox Twenty.
The Narrator
Disembodied Voice
- Location
- Somewhere Offscreen
I was in high school when that came out. Santana hadn't done much for a decade or so prior, so it kind of came out of nowhere.
The Sandman
So Zetta Slowpoke
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- Wherever I am, which isn't where I'm not
Well it'd be pretty hard for him to do anything when he was hibernating inside a pillar
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- It/They
Your not allowed to talk about parts leila hasn't started yet.
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no.
Pink Flamingo Cabal Grand Vizier
- Location
- Pennsylvania
Did...
Did you really just not read the banner, or the OP, or any of the other statements that referring to future events in detail is not acceptable in this thread?
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- Location
- West Michigan
Leila did accidentally watch the first episode of Stardust Crusaders before she went back to start at the real beginning.
- Location
- US
Well for the fight with the Mexican people specifically? I'd imagine it was a time issue. That's an easy encounter to cut when you're trying to get the episode short enough.
Torture scene was prolly a ratings thing.
Not sure what previous changes were made that you had issues with, but the two you brought up in this episode both have obvious and simple explanations.
Information: Official Staff Communication
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- He/Him
official staff communication
Spoiler post removed, carry on.
The Narrator
Disembodied Voice
- Location
- Somewhere Offscreen
Well, he was raised from his torpor in the 1930s, so that leaves him plenty of time to make his gig at Woodstock.
S1E12: The Pillar Man (continued)
- Location
- Patriarchova
The commercial break jumps ahead to JoJo finding the old fortress that the nazis are using as their base, and scoping it out from the desert. He refers to having gotten the location from his "cactus friend," which evoked a bit of a grim chuckle from me. What didn't make me chuckle, however, is that once again we see the bad guys graphically abusing some (mostly young and attractive) women to remind us that they're the bad guys.
This is seriously getting old.
In this case, the guards are frisking the local women who are bringing food from a nearby village (presumably in exchange for more of their friends and family not being captured for blood sacrifice experiments), and taking every opportunity to openly, leeringly invade their privacy. Fortunately, this is soon put a stop to by the absolute best thing in the entire show thus far.
No coffee breaks? Man, what a nazi.
"Okay. Well, let's talk about killing it. We know it's using the air shafts..."
Apparently Santana's loincloth has stayed on through all his amorpheous shapeshifting. Either he's made a point of clinging to it within
his mass, or this is just some poorly disguised censorship. Granted, its possible that he's actually naked and that cloth is just part of his flesh
that he's pretending is a cloth.
The soldier's jaw falls off when Santana speaks from within him, just for that extra touch. Also, the soldier looked even worse than this
a minute ago.
This is seriously getting old.
In this case, the guards are frisking the local women who are bringing food from a nearby village (presumably in exchange for more of their friends and family not being captured for blood sacrifice experiments), and taking every opportunity to openly, leeringly invade their privacy. Fortunately, this is soon put a stop to by the absolute best thing in the entire show thus far.
Now, what makes this amazing isn't that JoJo attempted it. No no. What makes it amazing is that for a moment, he actually seems genuinely hurt when he can't pass. And remember, this is after we saw him looking at an ad for breast augmentation.
So yeah. At this point, its pretty hard to deny that Joseph Joestar is genderqueer in some capacity, and that this doesn't seem to be detracting whatsoever from their heroic role, or be treated as a character flaw. Which is pretty damned amazing.
Sadly, I don't think JoJo will ever be able to successfully pass, with their physique, unless they learn some sort of hamon shapeshifting power. I guess I'll keep using male pronouns for him since the show does though; otherwise it'll get confusing.
As far as the immediate situation is concerned though, JoJo still has his Plan B for getting passed the nazi guards, and it works as well as it usually does.
So yeah. At this point, its pretty hard to deny that Joseph Joestar is genderqueer in some capacity, and that this doesn't seem to be detracting whatsoever from their heroic role, or be treated as a character flaw. Which is pretty damned amazing.
Sadly, I don't think JoJo will ever be able to successfully pass, with their physique, unless they learn some sort of hamon shapeshifting power. I guess I'll keep using male pronouns for him since the show does though; otherwise it'll get confusing.
As far as the immediate situation is concerned though, JoJo still has his Plan B for getting passed the nazi guards, and it works as well as it usually does.
JoJo then (somehow) squeezes himself into one of the guards' own uniforms. He's lucky there was nobody watching from one of the towers, or this could have ended very poorly. Anyway, JoJo is now inside the base disguised as an enemy soldier, and we cut back to the control room, where Santana - after whispering Stroheim's name - appears to have just vanished into thin air.
Stroheim is taking this development about as well as you'd expect, given his performance until now. By which I mean, he's freaking out while projecting that onto his underlings.
Stroheim is taking this development about as well as you'd expect, given his performance until now. By which I mean, he's freaking out while projecting that onto his underlings.
No coffee breaks? Man, what a nazi.
Apparently, everyone looked away from the cell for a second while they were wondering over how Santana could have heard Stroheim's name from inside the silo, and when they looked back he was gone. Stroheim orders for the silo's oxygen supply to be cut off, hoping to choke Santana out of hiding (do vampires need to breath? I'm pretty sure Bruford didn't...), and then reviews the security footage. They have to slow it down to see more than a blur, but when they do they see Santana leap off of one of the walls into a ventilation duct 50 feet off the ground and contort himself in between the tiny bars like a boneless octopus.
"Okay. Well, let's talk about killing it. We know it's using the air shafts..."
Between this and the way he let the vampire pass through what should have been his skeleton when he absorbed it, I'm pretty sure at this point that Santana is basically The Thing (the monster, not the Marvel character). His body doesn't actually have or need any organs, bones, or permanent structures, and he's only humanoid because he feels like being humanoid.
The music in this part continues to be amazing. Slow, distant, churchbell-like ringing, only with a more industrial sound to it. Very science-fiction-sepulchral. As the footage ends, it becomes a more typical scifi horror techno piece as the group realizes that Santana's hearing must be so acute that he was able to hear their conversation echoing out of the ventilation duct far overhead, and that he's likely moving toward the source. Too bad they only sealed off the air vents to the silo after he slipped through.
Also, why the hell does the containment silo share the same ventilation system as the rest of the base? What if Santana or his pillar had given off a toxic gas? Or a disease? So much for "containment."
Stroheim realizes what's about to happen, and orders his men to step away from the ventilation openings in the control room. One soldier though - probably the same dumbass who designed this place - does the exact opposite of what his commander just ordered and bends down to peer into the shaft and aim his gun down it.
The following image will never, ever make sense in absolutely any context besides this one.
The music in this part continues to be amazing. Slow, distant, churchbell-like ringing, only with a more industrial sound to it. Very science-fiction-sepulchral. As the footage ends, it becomes a more typical scifi horror techno piece as the group realizes that Santana's hearing must be so acute that he was able to hear their conversation echoing out of the ventilation duct far overhead, and that he's likely moving toward the source. Too bad they only sealed off the air vents to the silo after he slipped through.
Also, why the hell does the containment silo share the same ventilation system as the rest of the base? What if Santana or his pillar had given off a toxic gas? Or a disease? So much for "containment."
Stroheim realizes what's about to happen, and orders his men to step away from the ventilation openings in the control room. One soldier though - probably the same dumbass who designed this place - does the exact opposite of what his commander just ordered and bends down to peer into the shaft and aim his gun down it.
The following image will never, ever make sense in absolutely any context besides this one.
Apparently Santana's loincloth has stayed on through all his amorpheous shapeshifting. Either he's made a point of clinging to it within
his mass, or this is just some poorly disguised censorship. Granted, its possible that he's actually naked and that cloth is just part of his flesh
that he's pretending is a cloth.
Santana pours himself into the soldier's nostrils (I think? Maybe his mouth as well?) and does...something...to him. I'm not entirely sure what Santana is supposed to be doing to him in this scene, and that just makes it more disturbing.
At first, the soldier looks fine, but is clearly in pain and claims that he can't see anything. Then he acts confused and scared. Then he starts laughing maniacally and exclaiming that he feels better than he ever has before as his body begins twisting, deforming, and then bloating to absolutely hideous proportions, behind anything elephantiasis can do, ripping his clothes asunder in the process.
Stroheim understandably orders his other soldiers to open fire at that point, but the bullets seem to have no effect on the bloated, parasitized, babbling thing besides puncturing its skin. It drops to the floor eventually, but that seems to be more because of its own weight than from the bullets. Its vocalizations become incoherent, and its grin becomes an involuntary rictus as it continues deforming. When it manages to stand back up and point its fingers back at the soldiers, Stroheim assumes that the parasite that is now controlling the man's body is mindlessly imitating the others holding out their guns, just like it copied the sound of his name. However, that theory is dashed when a much more coherent voice echoes out from inside of the bloated soldier, and asks:
At first, the soldier looks fine, but is clearly in pain and claims that he can't see anything. Then he acts confused and scared. Then he starts laughing maniacally and exclaiming that he feels better than he ever has before as his body begins twisting, deforming, and then bloating to absolutely hideous proportions, behind anything elephantiasis can do, ripping his clothes asunder in the process.
Stroheim understandably orders his other soldiers to open fire at that point, but the bullets seem to have no effect on the bloated, parasitized, babbling thing besides puncturing its skin. It drops to the floor eventually, but that seems to be more because of its own weight than from the bullets. Its vocalizations become incoherent, and its grin becomes an involuntary rictus as it continues deforming. When it manages to stand back up and point its fingers back at the soldiers, Stroheim assumes that the parasite that is now controlling the man's body is mindlessly imitating the others holding out their guns, just like it copied the sound of his name. However, that theory is dashed when a much more coherent voice echoes out from inside of the bloated soldier, and asks:
The soldier's jaw falls off when Santana speaks from within him, just for that extra touch. Also, the soldier looked even worse than this
a minute ago.
Okay...I think I'm starting to figure out what Santana just did. The way the dying soldier went through a bunch of inappropriate sensory and emotional surges was because Santana was integrating himself into his brain, causing all sorts of random feedback and surges as his central nervous system was rearranged. By fusing with the soldier's brain, Santana was able to learn everything he knows, including the ability to speak English or German or whatever language they're supposed to be speaking (he's notably using words that none of the characters have spoken since his awakening, so its not just learning by imitation). As for how he's seemingly now controlling the soldier's body instead of just inhabiting it...either he's hijacked the entire nervous system by now, or he's just extended tendrils of his own tissue into the limbs to puppet them.
Gruesome indeed.
When no one gives Santana an answer, he uses the soldier's outstretched finger to launch one of the bullets they filled him with back at one of them. Fatally. This should be silly, but somehow - perhaps owing in part to the body horror we just witnessed - it really isn't.
While Stroheim and the others struggle with how to react to Santana claiming another victim, another soldier slips into the room and pulls Speedwagon out of the line of fire.
Gruesome indeed.
When no one gives Santana an answer, he uses the soldier's outstretched finger to launch one of the bullets they filled him with back at one of them. Fatally. This should be silly, but somehow - perhaps owing in part to the body horror we just witnessed - it really isn't.
While Stroheim and the others struggle with how to react to Santana claiming another victim, another soldier slips into the room and pulls Speedwagon out of the line of fire.
I wonder if JoJo is supposed to speak fluent German? It wouldn't be too unlikely, but it also hasn't been established that he can. Really, it seems like the show is just ignoring the language barrier more than anything else, although in that case it was kind of a misstep for it to call attention to Santana learning to speak modern languages. Anyway, after waking up out of stasis, crawling through a ventilation duct, and inserting himself down someone's nostrils, Santana now surprises absolutely no one by bursting out of the bloated soldier's body.
There doesn't even seem to be any blood on him. He probably absorbed it all - along with most of the flesh - while reshaping himself into his humanoid form.
JoJo quickly runs over to Stroheim, while he and his men are distracted by the fullbodyburster, and tears out a handful of Stroheim's hair. When Santana now raises his own fingers to spray the rest of the bullets back at all assembled, JoJo does a...thing...with that hair and hamon.
JoJo quickly runs over to Stroheim, while he and his men are distracted by the fullbodyburster, and tears out a handful of Stroheim's hair. When Santana now raises his own fingers to spray the rest of the bullets back at all assembled, JoJo does a...thing...with that hair and hamon.
The hairs hang in the air in front of JoJo and generate a hamon forcefield that repels Santana's bullets, shielding JoJo, Speedwagon, and Stroheim (probably incidentally, in that last case) while the other soldiers all get killed.
I'm not sure if I should be calling bullshit here or not, but its just loony enough that I'm not really bothered by it. And, I suppose it's basically the same thing that Johnathan and Zeppeli did with those leaves last season.
The episode ends with everyone besides JoJo, Speedwagon, and Stroheim dead, and Santana kneeling down to curiously inspect one of the hair follicles that JoJo just used.
Overall, this episode was a drastic improvement over the previous. Not quite as good as the pilot, thanks to some plot contrivances that I saw coming a mile away and some residual effects of last episode's poorly-conceived railroading, but the essence of the story worked well enough, and there were enough awesome, funny, and scary moments throughout that it kept me fully engaged. I'm more sold than ever before on JoJo as the protagonist of this story, now that the clumsy hurdle of getting him involved with it is passed, and the Pillar Men have definitely made a strong debut as the main adversary.
So far, we're batting 2/3 on Battle Tendency episodes. That's a better ratio than a lot of shows, and I hope it can at least maintain it going forward. I had to force myself to not just keep watching the next episode immediately after this one, so that's a good sign.
I'm not sure if I should be calling bullshit here or not, but its just loony enough that I'm not really bothered by it. And, I suppose it's basically the same thing that Johnathan and Zeppeli did with those leaves last season.
The episode ends with everyone besides JoJo, Speedwagon, and Stroheim dead, and Santana kneeling down to curiously inspect one of the hair follicles that JoJo just used.
Overall, this episode was a drastic improvement over the previous. Not quite as good as the pilot, thanks to some plot contrivances that I saw coming a mile away and some residual effects of last episode's poorly-conceived railroading, but the essence of the story worked well enough, and there were enough awesome, funny, and scary moments throughout that it kept me fully engaged. I'm more sold than ever before on JoJo as the protagonist of this story, now that the clumsy hurdle of getting him involved with it is passed, and the Pillar Men have definitely made a strong debut as the main adversary.
So far, we're batting 2/3 on Battle Tendency episodes. That's a better ratio than a lot of shows, and I hope it can at least maintain it going forward. I had to force myself to not just keep watching the next episode immediately after this one, so that's a good sign.
OverReactionGuy
Verified Sanity
Santana 's lion cloth uses the same fabric as the hulk's purple shorts I guess.
ZerbanDaGreat
Daemon Noble of D E M O G R A P H I C S
- Pronouns
- They/them
Stroheim understandably orders his other soldiers to open fire at that point, but the bullets seem to have no effect on the bloated, parasitized, babbling thing besides puncturing its skin. It drops to the floor eventually, but that seems to be more because of its own weight than from the bullets. Its vocalizations become incoherent, and its grin becomes an involuntary rictus as it continues deforming. When it manages to stand back up and point its fingers back at the soldiers, Stroheim assumes that the parasite that is now controlling the man's body is mindlessly imitating the others holding out their guns, just like it copied the sound of his name. However, that theory is dashed when a much more coherent voice echoes out from inside of the bloated soldier, and asks:
The soldier's jaw falls off when Santana speaks from within him, just for that extra touch. Also, the soldier looked even worse than this
a minute ago.
[...]
When no one gives Santana an answer, he uses the soldier's outstretched finger to launch one of the bullets they filled him with back at one of them. Fatally. This should be silly, but somehow - perhaps owing in part to the body horror we just witnessed - it really isn't.
Why am I not surprised to realise that RE4 ripped something off from Jojo?
The hairs hang in the air in front of JoJo and generate a hamon forcefield that repels Santana's bullets, shielding JoJo, Speedwagon, and Stroheim (probably incidentally, in that last case) while the other soldiers all get killed.
Yeah I didn't remember this before I rewatched the episode - or rather, I remembered the Ripple Reflega but I didn't know it was blocking fucking bullets - so I just burst out laughing seeing this again. What a complete debacle.
Derek58
Rocket Punch is Best Punch
- Location
- Getter Valhalla
Yea, definitely
Leingod
Immaculate Blooming Lotus
I'd say this episode is good proof that Araki understood what made Alien such a sensation a lot better than most of his peers did. The body horror is backed up well enough by the atmosphere and tension the scene has built up, so unlike a lot of Alien rip-offs it doesn't become a cheap gorefest despite some deeply silly elements before and after that sequence.
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Lord Ultimus
Beautiful...
- Location
- Undisclosed Warehouse
Fun fact: as the guards are struck down by Joseph, one of them shouts "TACO'S!" for no reason other than they're in Mexico and Araki thought it'd be funny.
Yeah, another part of Araki being a huge Westaboo is his love of American horror movies.