Let's Play Every Final Fantasy Game In Order Of Release [Now Playing: Final Fantasy IX]

Okay so two people got stabbed with the knife.

Dark horse wins, I guess! :)


EDIT:

Although, thinking it through, it is very true to the Shakespearean influence that runs through this game.
 
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Ramza, the blood-soaked heretic, the killer, who has walked out of more empty castles than can be remembered leaving behind nothing but the stench of corpses and the wailing of the wind, his name written off all records but that infamy, is doomed to be forgotten for five hundred years after having become an object of fear and hatred in his lifetime. He, who was in truth the hero who slew the demons manipulating Ivalice from behind the scenes, who saved the kingdom from the return of its false saint, from the Angel of Blood whose coming had once brought down civilization, he gets to walk into the sunset with his sister, to find a new life somewhere else, presumably followed by the friends and allies he made along his journey.

King Delita, the hero in armor of gold, the savior of Ivalice, the commonborn soldier who rose to knighthood and nobility, who married the princess and ushered in an era of peace and prosperity for the kingdom, is written into history as one of the great names of Ivalice, a Knight Devout, anointed by the Church, crowned in honor and glory. He, the manipulator, schemer, assassin, survives everyone he ever knew and had reason to care about. Ramza, his childhood friend, presumed dead on some quest of which Delita kept himself ignorant. Valmafra, allowed to flee into the night to find some other life far away. Orran Durai, whose trust and loyalty he sought to purchase with careful demonstrations, he allowed to die on the Church's stake. All the Knights Templar who had once trusted him are dead, and he had already planned to betray them besides; and now his own wife lies lifeless among the scattered petals of the flowers he'd thought to gift her for her birthday.

Delita will go down in history as a noble, brave and kindly king, perhaps struck by his wife in a bout of madness, but he will always be there, in the ruins of that chapel, clutching his breast where the dagger drew his blood, looking to the stars and asking Ramza if he got all that he wanted, all that he deserved.

But there will be no answer.

We are the sum of our deeds, not our names.

Or to quote Lois McMaster Bujold,-

"Reputation is what other people know about you. Honor is what you know about yourself.... The friction tends to arise when the two are not the same....There is no more hollow feeling than to stand with your honor shattered at your feet while soaring public reputation wraps you in rewards. That's soul destroying. The other way around is merely very, very irritating."

Thanks for this. I look forward to wrap-up.
 
FFVII, VIII, and now Tactics have all ended on ambiguous endings, showing the interest that the teams had at this time In experimenting with the medium.

VII ends with stopping on apocalypse by summoning another one, with no internal sign on whether the heroes actions saved the human race, even with the far flung epilogue.

VIII has time itself collapse, before resolving the paradox and ending with lovers reuniting. The presentation is really what separates it from something like FFV or VI, using a montage of everything we've seen to show us Squall's search for anything to anchor him.

Tactics, meanwhile, has a decidedly Ogre Battle style ending. Terry Pratchett's "Monstrous Regiment" has a semi iconic scene near the end wherein the spirit of the Duchess, a figure so tied to the religion of the area as to have become partially divine, ends the war the book is about. However, the happy end is given a warning by the cynical Sergeant Jackrum. "Kisses don't last". The book's epilogue proves this true, as war is once again brewing.

Delita won. All his rivals are dead, his power secured, his legacy as a good and just king entrenched. But the kissing didn't last, but bad blood did. Ramza got to journey west, his conscience clear. Delita's hands will always be stained. "What did you get?"
 
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I simply don't trust anything Matsuno wrote after FFT. Delita survives because that's how he lives long enough to stay in the history books, Ovelia doesn't, world keeps spinning.
 
So, uh, if the only time Orran ran into Ramza and Alma after the final battle was a brief glimpse at the funeral, how did he know enough about the events in the necrohol to include them in the Durai Papers?

...I guess that's why XIV claimed Orran married Alma in its version of events, it ties up a plot hole in terms of his sources (and it clearly would not have been a particularly long marriage).


On an unrelated note, if the holy word/name is "Faram" with an f, why is the predecessor religion that didn't accept Ajora as a prophet referred to as the Pharists with a ph?

...please don't tell me the schism was over spelling rather than Ajora's divinity or lack thereof
 
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So, uh, if the only time Orran ran into Ramza and Alma after the final battle was a brief glimpse at the funeral, how did he know enough about the events in the necrohol to include them in the Durai Papers?

...I guess that's why XIV claimed Orran married Alma in its version of events, it ties up a plot hole in terms of his sources (and it clearly would not have been a particularly long marriage).
So, yeah, the game apparently took the unexpected worst possible option out of the ones we were debating over regarding who's confirmed to have survived the final battle:
Nobody but Ramza and Alma are confirmed survivors and Orran either just magically acquires knowledge of everything that happened to Ramza since last they met or made it all up.
Edit: Sure, maybe one of the others told him all the things he wasn't there for offscreen, but since there's the whole thing of Ramza and Alma just riding past uncaring and nobody else's ending even gets discussed other than them, Orran, Delita, and Ovelia, we are forced to assume either the rest of the party actually did die in the dramatic airship explosion, or vanished into the pages of history alongside the inexplicably surviving siblings, meaning, again: there was nobody to tell Orran any of that.
 
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I do like, the idea where Delita did fall for Ovelia. Perhaps he started out doing it all as a ruse in order to manipulate her, but somewhere along the way, he ended up kinda buying into it himself. Finding himself as the victory, now king of the very land itself, and his power seemingly unquestioned.

But, because Delita is Delita, a man that spend so much time manipulating, dealing in treachery and betrayal. It did come back to haunt him. Delita's last lines, is him standing besides the crumbled body of Ovelia, looking to the sky and wonder what happened to Ramza. Those two may have been the only people, besides his dead sister that Delita truly loved, or held some manner of affection to.

Tietra is dead, because in many ways of the manipulative ways of the nobles.
Ovelia is now dead, or will never trust him again, because of the many manipulative ways he's been handling in.
Delita did truly become that which he despised, so very long ago.

Delita won everything he set out to do, but was it an ending that would truly satify him?
 
Indeed, the revisionism when FF14 revisits Orbonne makes sense as a tool for justifying Raids that act as a sequel to Tactics… but there is a reason most fans treat it as the author's fanfiction. It distorts Tactics plot in strange ways to justify a revisit of characters that would otherwise long be dust.
 
Orran either just magically acquires knowledge of everything that happened to Ramza
Orran Durai, picking through the wreckage in the basement of the Orbonne Monastary trying to figure out what in tarnation Ramza did, finds a magical portal that he steps through, to a Necrohol in a secret pocket dimension, walking past the corpses of an entire Church squad that Mysteriously Disappeared, to finally reach a crashed airship from the forgotten precursor empire, with a 12-foot-corpse of some kind of demigod rotting away on top, which he is startled to realize is the incarnation of the Saint. He looks around. "I just know something crazy happened here," he says to himself.
 
Orran Durai, picking through the wreckage in the basement of the Orbonne Monastary trying to figure out what in tarnation Ramza did, finds a magical portal that he steps through, to a Necrohol in a secret pocket dimension, walking past the corpses of an entire Church squad that Mysteriously Disappeared, to finally reach a crashed airship from the forgotten precursor empire, with a 12-foot-corpse of some kind of demigod rotting away on top, which he is startled to realize is the incarnation of the Saint. He looks around. "I just know something crazy happened here," he says to himself.

Orran: And then Alma split herself away from the Saint incarnation, somehow I GUESS! Honestly, i got no clues at all on what even happened there
 
Indeed, the revisionism when FF14 revisits Orbonne makes sense as a tool for justifying Raids that act as a sequel to Tactics… but there is a reason most fans treat it as the author's fanfiction. It distorts Tactics plot in strange ways to justify a revisit of characters that would otherwise long be dust.
Isn't the excuse for Argath turning up in Auracite-based form 'he just wanted to be king that badly,' a thing he not only never wanted - to the end, both times in fact, he was a proud hatchetman for any noble of even slightly higher station - but wasn't even alive when it became possible for someone to 'become' king of Ivalice, seeing as he died before the Lions' War even started?
 
I know I've shilled Tactics Ogre a good bit already in thread, but genuinely I think the way it does it is better.

In the ending, nearly all of your uniques get a short, cute epilogue where it elaborats on what they plan to do now that all the chaos is over, and while they're all pretty short it really adds a lot of catharsis after having used these units for dozens of hours.

Some of the vagueness of FF Tactics falls a bit flat for me by comparison.
 
God but I do love FFT. I think one of the big reasons for it comes down to how it handles the introduction of the supernatural - I haven't exactly hidden my distaste for this particular trope in the past, it's one of my least favorite parts of FF as a series, but the way FFT handles it I'm able to appreciate it much more.

I think the core reason is that, most of the time, when the big supernatural villain starts showing up, the games often seem to lose interest in the more mundane stakes set in the opening hours. Like in FF8, the questions of child soldiers and the geopolitics of incredibly powerful mercenary organizations, GF junctioning that risks a users' memories, an expansionist empire trying to topple the balance of power? When Ultimecia appears, all of those kind of... fall by the wayside. In FF7, Shinra and corporate power, the environmental themes? Well now Jenova appears and there's a meteor in the sky, who cares about that. It tends to feel like the writers just weren't interested in the very questions they were asking, and it can make it hard to get invested in the plots they propose.

In FFT though? We start with class struggles and a civil war, but when the Lucavi appear we don't forget about them. Ramza focuses his attention on the threat of the demons, but between weaving in and out of events of the war, as well as Delita himself continuing to drive political events in the background, it becomes clear that the writers were very much interested in how those events ended, with Delita's end being a very intentional foil to Ramza's own fate.

It makes the story feel much more intentional, and while I personally might have been more interested in the events of the civil war having a greater focus, I can't accuse them of forgetting about it at all.

I really do love the story, and I'm glad you were able to cover it in this LP.

Indeed, the revisionism when FF14 revisits Orbonne makes sense as a tool for justifying Raids that act as a sequel to Tactics… but there is a reason most fans treat it as the author's fanfiction. It distorts Tactics plot in strange ways to justify a revisit of characters that would otherwise long be dust.

See, the thing is you really could use Tactics as a jumping off point for XIV raids, you just need to focus on the part of the presentation that Tactics doesn't: what happens in the current day when the truth of past events are brought to light.

We get to see the true events behind the tale of Delita the Hero over the course of Tactics, but we never see what happens in Arazlam's time when he presents his findings. Is Delita's tale a well known story, and this is a shock to the public consciousness? Is it mostly of interest to historians, and this sparks vigorous academic debate but has little reach in the public sphere? Is it a foundational part of an extant nation's national mythology and it threatens its very foundations?

Now none of that is terribly relevant to Tactics itself, but I can see a XIV raid story being able to do something with that idea, especially since it's presented as a piece of Garlean history we're unearthing, and that's the kind of nation where a threat to the national mythology could very well dovetail into some interesting events. Also knowing that a bunch of the battle dialogue in FFT is very stage play-like makes the decision to make the XIV version an actual play is a very cute detail.

Of course this is just me spitballing, but I do think there's something there you could work with, and also get Matsuno an editor, I love his writing but he desperately needs someone willing to tell him he's exceeded his wordcount.
 
What a wild ride. Seeing Tactics's story also puts a lot of the FFXII and A2 elements into context, although Omi will (evenutally) get to XII to see what I mean.

Also Carrot the poor pet Marlboro becomes a recurring character in Final Fantasy lore - Carrot appears in both Tactics Advance and A2 (tied to the Advance Monster Ranch and a standalone quest reference in A2), and IIRC there's a Carrot in XIV. Heck, there's an entire questline about a Viera noblewoman proving herself to her family by fighting and taming a Drake with your Clan as her witness/partner in her deeds. (and the Culinary Crusade questline and another fashion knockoff sidequest where you fight knockoff Ribbon manufacturers at the original company's request both also bring Marlboros into the spotlight.)

I don't believe that Zodiac compatibility ever returns in subsequent Final Fantasy games, tho. It's a weird and obscure part of gaming history that remained only in the one game thus far.
 
The simplest answer is that Orran died the same way Ramza died- he was physically fine but had to abandon his old identity and go elsewhere.
While I don't think this was the case - too many loose ends that'd need resolving - I think that it'd be extremely funny if Delita was planning, as his birthday gift to Ovelia, to reveal how he had orchestrated a way to save Orran without anybody realizing he'd done so, and Ovelia stabbed him before he could explain his latest plot.

Doesn't really fit the narrative at all, of course. Nor would it be my reading of the scene. But it's a possible reading, probably.

I don't believe that Zodiac compatibility ever returns in subsequent Final Fantasy games, tho. It's a weird and obscure part of gaming history that remained only in the one game thus far.
I mean... I, for one, am not that surprised about this fact. One might, in fact, even say: "good riddance".

…because Gillian has Reraise!
Pretty sure you meant Hester here.

I thought the ending was quite good.
Same. Unlike FFVII, I feel that the tone of Final Fantasy Tactics' ending fits what the game was for its entire runtime: a political drama with no clear solutions and a lot of plotting, backstabbing and situation where lack of communication proved deadly, and where schemers, even successful ones, suffered for their actions in the end. Having an ending that reflects that is appropriate, I feel.
 
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