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Let's Play Every Final Fantasy Game In Order Of Release [Now Finished: Final Fantasy Tactics]

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Omicron said:
Yeah this is just Final Fantasy. Tiamat is a flying dragon, Odin is a knight on a horse, Scathach is a demon queen from the Void, Garuda is an evil shapeshifting bird vizier and later a bird woman, Gilgamesh is a comedy antagonist sword collector, and Cuchulainn is, evidently, a nightmare monster prince from the hell dimension. That's just how the series rolls.
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Cuchulainn is just particularly funny in just how far from the source material he falls. Most Final Fantasy references at least have a passing resemblance to their inspirations even if the Japanese devs use western mythology as a grab bag for their OCs. Odin is a king that rides a horse named Sleipnir. Shiva has blue skin like her deva inspiration, although it's used to make a pun on "shiver" for her ice powers. Bahamut and Tiamat being dragons can at least be blamed on D&D's influence. Gilgamesh is just a straight up referencing mistake.

(EDIT: also for completions' sake: Garuda is a bird deity and Scathach is at least on brand in that her castle's name Dun Scaith means "Fortress of Shadows.")

But Cuch over here. Cu Chulainn is a hot-blooded fightan hero who, in that recurring fashion of the mythologies of the isles, is a hit with the ladies to an unfortunate fate, and ultimately dies tying himself to a stone to stay standing while he fights. Meanwhile our Zodiac dude over here is a lumpy golgothan sloth demon spamming biological warcrimes (I think the intended interpretation is that he's vomiting on the party) and sleeping spells. You couldn't get farther from the source material if you deliberately tried.
 
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My problem with permadeath is that one of the big draws, for me at least, is the emergent storytelling you get when one of your blorbos dies, to a mistake maybe, or as a heroic sacrifice to give the rest of the team an opening, and you soldier on. Having those stories where someone dies and it's part of your little game history is actually really cool, and it can be really fun!

The issue is that it requires a fairly specific setup to achieve - characters that need enough investment to get attached, but not so much that they're irreplaceable, enough personality to latch onto as your own lil dudes, but not so much that you're missing out on story when they're gone - and so many games miss one of those and make losses restart worthy. FFT, as we've seen, requires too much investment in a character, FE tends to give them too much story, and so on.

It's a shame because I really do like permadeath done well, it's just hard to find games where pressing on in the face of loss feels justified.
 
RubberBandMan said:
I think an aspect that is a major factor is also 'how irreplaceable is this person?'
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One awkward aspect is that person is just an awkwardly squishy unit of gamestate to apply permadeath to. Massive Chalice technically also had unit permadeath, but it moved the upgrading and investing to the dynasty scale, with permadeath also looming there. And trying to keep a dynasty of warriors alive just provides way more granularity, which opened up some fun design space. Though it didn't solve the storytelling issue since the dynastic timescale doesn't lend itself to that.
 
Kuja said:
But Cuch over here. Cu Chulainn is a hot-blooded fightan hero who, in that recurring fashion of the mythologies of the isles, is a hit with the ladies to an unfortunate fate, and ultimately dies tying himself to a stone to stay standing while he fights. Meanwhile our Zodiac dude over here is a lumpy golgothan sloth demon spamming biological warcrimes (I think the intended interpretation is that he's vomiting on the party) and sleeping spells. You couldn't get farther from the source material if you deliberately tried.
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He was also famed for transforming into a grotesque creature for battle in his ríastrad/warp spasms. Every other aspect is bizarre but that one is an interesting parallel.

EDIT: Found a description, as expected the particulars of the transformation resemble FFT only in a couple details (hideous and shapeless, weird mouth stuff) but still, for the sake of curiosity.

Thomas Kinsella translating Táin Bó Cúailnge said:
The first warp-spasm seized Cúchulainn, and made him into a monstrous thing, hideous and shapeless, unheard of. His shanks and his joints, every knuckle and angle and organ from head to foot, shook like a tree in the flood or a reed in the stream. His body made a furious twist inside his skin, so that his feet and shins switched to the rear and his heels and calves switched to the front... On his head the temple-sinews stretched to the nape of his neck, each mighty, immense, measureless knob as big as the head of a month-old child... he sucked one eye so deep into his head that a wild crane couldn't probe it onto his cheek out of the depths of his skull; the other eye fell out along his cheek. His mouth weirdly distorted: his cheek peeled back from his jaws until the gullet appeared, his lungs and his liver flapped in his mouth and throat, his lower jaw struck the upper a lion-killing blow, and fiery flakes large as a ram's fleece reached his mouth from his throat... The hair of his head twisted like the tangle of a red thornbush stuck in a gap; if a royal apple tree with all its kingly fruit were shaken above him, scarce an apple would reach the ground but each would be spiked on a bristle of his hair as it stood up on his scalp with rage.
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It's disappointing that a character who dies, is not automatically replaced by its hidden sister/brother who can join your party with the same exact skills and stuffs. And if this one dies too, it's okay, because, medieval times, parents are making a dozen of babies, so another brother/sister can replace it with a different skin color. Sure, it will be a little weird to have a toddler with the same skills than an adult, but hey, who I am to judge the skill of a baby in a Final Fantasy game ?

What a pity the game doesn't follow JRPG cliches !
 
I admit, I *do* let characters die early on if it means I get through one of the tough fights. If one of my generics crystalizes in Chapter 1 or 2, eh, plenty to replace them where those came from.
 
Corti said:
It's disappointing that a character who dies, is not automatically replaced by its hidden sister/brother who can join your party with the same exact skills and stuffs. And if this one dies too, it's okay, because, medieval times, parents are making a dozen of babies, so another brother/sister can replace it with a different skin color. Sure, it will be a little weird to have a toddler with the same skills than an adult, but hey, who I am to judge the skill of a baby in a Final Fantasy game ?

What a pity the game doesn't follow JRPG cliches !
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AliasiSudonomo said:
I admit, I *do* let characters die early on if it means I get through one of the tough fights. If one of my generics crystalizes in Chapter 1 or 2, eh, plenty to replace them where those came from.
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Mustadio's brother cousin cousin's nephew uncle by marriage definitely not the original in a mustache mirror universe twin resurrected undead self rule 63 alternate future self war buddy who took his name quantum superposition Müstådíø: you flunked pattern recognition too huh

Osric the XII: yup
 
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Fun fact if you select on a characters name you get a quote specific to each original name.

Well there are five female generic npcs you could recruit that have the line of "I am the (whichever) of five sisters"
 
DanZapman said:
The original Japanese is 不浄王/Fujō-ō キュクレイン/kyukurein. The first bit is straightforwardly 'Impure King', although 'Impure' doesn't quite hit the same in English as I think 不浄 does in Japanese. Corrupt or Corruption, maybe. The second bit is odder but Google Translate suggests that it would pick 'Cuclein' as a translation and other translation apps go for stuff like 'Cucullane' or 'Cucullain' which would be pretty spot on for Cú Chulainn considering the original name was neither English nor Japanese. I have to give it to WotL here, everything I know suggests this was just a weird name choice on the part of the original devs.
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I can't wait to fight Apostle King Altria
 
Re: Permadeath, keep it for generics (and maybe any optional characters? I know War of the Lions had a few FF12 characters added as a big back-of-the-box selling point) but make it so that main characters like Mustadio and Agrias have the same "game over upon death" thing as Ramza. That way there's a tradeoff for bringing powerful uniques - they're stronger than generics due to their unique classes but you have to keep them safe like Ramza, no sacrifice plays.

That way you get the best of both worlds. You get the emergent gameplay of permadeath without it fucking over the storyline.
 
I like a few
Ethelbert "Will anyone pay out benefits if I should die in battle?"
Gauwyn "Mayhap I ought sell off what we have and simply run away."
Haimirich "Is my Bravery over 50? Come, you may whisper the answer in my ear."
Aleyn "Gob-gob, hob... Beg pardons, just doing my goblin impression."
Eschina "I detest being a black mage. No one can see my face!"
Caesaria "That boyfriend of mine cannot decide between me and my sister!"
 
Found a list of all the generic quotes (and named character spoilers too sadly, so won't link it here) but man these are great. They range from random character defining tidbits (I am the elder of twins) to what is apparently obscure worldbuilding (The feral chocobo calls with a boisterous "wark," not the domestic breed's mild "kweh."), to just straight comedy (Life is full of "if"s. Well, one "if," in the middle) and even just random gameplay tips (Add 40 to your CT merely by selecting Wait).

There are literally hundreds of these, the devs have hundreds of random name-based quotes that almost nobody will ever see, this is the shit I play RPGs for.
They even got quotes for characters and generics both for all the "threatening to/actually leaving for low bravery/high faith", if I weren't on mobile ten minutes before bed I'd be flooding the thread with these things Omi won't be seeing in normal gameplay anyways.
 
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venom3053000 said:
I like a few
Ethelbert "Will anyone pay out benefits if I should die in battle?"
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The answer by the way is "no", and Ethelbert probably should have thought of that issue before deciding to stay with a small militia led by a teenager cut off from his family's funds with only the resources he gets by plundering his opponents' bodies foraging after battles, instead of leaving to join an established mercenary group or army led by a government or aspiring government
 
Zap Rowsdower said:
The answer by the way is "no", and Ethelbert probably should have thought of that issue before deciding to stay with a small militia led by a teenager cut off from his family's funds with only the resources he gets by plundering his opponents' bodies foraging after battles, instead of leaving to join an established mercenary group or army led by a government or aspiring government
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You don't understand, he's getting in on the ground floor of an innovative new organization!
 
venom3053000 said:
I like a few
Ethelbert "Will anyone pay out benefits if I should die in battle?"
Gauwyn "Mayhap I ought sell off what we have and simply run away."
Haimirich "Is my Bravery over 50? Come, you may whisper the answer in my ear."
Aleyn "Gob-gob, hob... Beg pardons, just doing my goblin impression."
Eschina "I detest being a black mage. No one can see my face!"
Caesaria "That boyfriend of mine cannot decide between me and my sister!"
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Oh, those are really cool. I looked up my characters' Select quotes a while back after it was pointed out to me, but they were mostly just gameplay tips so it didn't end up making it into the update. These have a lot more character. For the record, mine were:

Ramza: "Be aware of your units' turn order at all times. Such is the swiftest path to victory!"
Agrias: "Our lives are as fleeting as a dream. What a somber thought."
Mustadio: "Guns require no charge time. Simply aim and fire!"
Hadrian: "Merely selecting Wait adds 40 to your CT."
Osric: "Have you ever made a whistle of a blade of grass?"
Gillian: "I wish I could fly!"
Hester: "When moving, it is disappointing to find you can go but one step from your destination!"

Of these, Gillian handily wins the Characterful Quote contest.
 
Omicron said:
Agrias: "Our lives are as fleeting as a dream. What a somber thought."
Mustadio: "Guns require no charge time. Simply aim and fire!"
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This is a great contrast; "My god, the fragility of human life in the face of the violence of war" vs. "Wow my guns make killing fun and easy!"

illhousen said:
Unfortunately, every employee in this innovative organization is a replaceable freelance contractor except Ramza.
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Ramza Beoulve is proud to introduce Uber For Mercenaries :V
 
Every character and guest you had a line actually.

Delita "Should you be injured, Ramza, speak up and I shall say a chant to heal you."
Argath ""Rend" skills can destroy your opponent's equipment!"
Ovelia "I pray we can all be ever so slightly kinder to one another."
Goffard Gaffgarion "If it's hand-to-hand combat you're up against, remember to bring a shield!"
Boco "(You get the feeling you've met before.) Wark!"
Lavian "Be on your guard! You cannot perform actions in water of depth 2 or greater."
Alicia "Remember, while you may be able to attack from above, it may not be possible from below."
Ladd "The higher your Bravery, the higher the chances a reaction ability will be triggered!"
 
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