- Location
- Lake Wobegon
- Pronouns
- He/Him/His
Look, what was he going to do, not be supportive?
Let's Play Every Final Fantasy Game In Order Of Release [Now Finished: Final Fantasy Tactics]
- Thread starter Omicron
- Start date
- Let's Play
Omegahugger
Inattentive Idiot
Honestly, I think that latter one would've been pretty easy to sell storywise. Just look at all the cosmic imagery that floats around Ultimecia! The lonely witch of the end of time; the empty cosmos at the world's end. We know from Adel that sorceresses can live a very long time. It doesn't matter if Rinoa's friends never leave her; that Squall will keep being her knight; that they always have a place to keep waiting for each other. Sooner or later, they will be torn apart regardless. The teeth of time grinds down everything eventually.
The thing is, this is a solved problem. Maybe less solved in 1999 than it is now, but considering how much cosmic stuff is shoved into mecha anime I refuse to believe none of them interacted philosophically with the heat death of the universe. And we know what the anime answer is to "Eventually, all you love will be lost and you will end up bitter and alone". It is to punch that future and bitterness in the face and state that love and friendship are worth it even if only for the moment. Memories are what transcends time and space, and making happy, good connections and worth the sadness that comes when those connections inevitably break. Even if it's difficult at first and painful at last, the intermediate parts are what really matters. Like, the pieces for this kind of story are all there!
Heck, you could even take a wee bit further and imply that maybe Ultimecia's reason for destroying all of time is not because she is a generic evil sorceress who wishes to rule the world, but because she is willing to risk everything to stop herself from existing in the first place. Then Rinoa would have to look her own terrible future in the eyes and decide that yes, that hell is worth going into and oh crud I've started to reinvent Unlimited Blade Work fanfiction from first principles again.
I seem to recall the version of the fan theory I came across assumed a non-stable time loop. That you had a cycle of Ultimecia -> Edea -> Rinoa becoming Ultimecia after becoming lost so long in the time compression she forgot who she was.
And the plot of FF8 that we play through has one small thing in that loop being different, Rinoa finding Squall, allowing us to break past it. In a Homestuckian sort of framework it'd actually work out (It'd be entirely possible to have a stable time loop that propels a timeline that ends quite differently) but they never really put in that work on screen here.
Anyway, yeah, 'reaching for the stars and not quite getting there' is a Final Fantasy series tradition. Very few of the games play it safe, although the upcoming FF9 is close to that as a nostalgia title. But I feel like FF8's swing and a miss ended much more badly than either FF6 or 7. 6 is beloved of an entire generation who grew up on a Super Nintendo; 7 is beloved of the PSX crowd, but the people who like FF8 are contrarians by comparison.
Which is not the same thing as saying it's without any worth, mind. Go in with a guide and don't try for a playthrough even as quasi-completionist as Omi's and you can have some fun with it. But playing through it is much closer to 'watching a film of importance to film history' than 'still holds up as fresh as the day it was made'. If you're just looking for a fun JRPG of the Playstation 1 era... don't pick FF8. Pick 7, pick Legend of Dragoon, heck, pick Star Ocean, Grandia, or Wild Arms. (A podcast reviewing retro games by modern standards without any nostalgia filters decided to play Lunar: Silver Star Story Complete for their first JRPG. That one, I'd pick FF8 first since at least it is doing something interesting.)
And the plot of FF8 that we play through has one small thing in that loop being different, Rinoa finding Squall, allowing us to break past it. In a Homestuckian sort of framework it'd actually work out (It'd be entirely possible to have a stable time loop that propels a timeline that ends quite differently) but they never really put in that work on screen here.
Anyway, yeah, 'reaching for the stars and not quite getting there' is a Final Fantasy series tradition. Very few of the games play it safe, although the upcoming FF9 is close to that as a nostalgia title. But I feel like FF8's swing and a miss ended much more badly than either FF6 or 7. 6 is beloved of an entire generation who grew up on a Super Nintendo; 7 is beloved of the PSX crowd, but the people who like FF8 are contrarians by comparison.
Which is not the same thing as saying it's without any worth, mind. Go in with a guide and don't try for a playthrough even as quasi-completionist as Omi's and you can have some fun with it. But playing through it is much closer to 'watching a film of importance to film history' than 'still holds up as fresh as the day it was made'. If you're just looking for a fun JRPG of the Playstation 1 era... don't pick FF8. Pick 7, pick Legend of Dragoon, heck, pick Star Ocean, Grandia, or Wild Arms. (A podcast reviewing retro games by modern standards without any nostalgia filters decided to play Lunar: Silver Star Story Complete for their first JRPG. That one, I'd pick FF8 first since at least it is doing something interesting.)
The Sandman
So Zetta Slowpoke
- Location
- Wherever I am, which isn't where I'm not
My guess is they jettisoned Ultinoa when they realized it was just the plot of the final season of Sailor Moon.
Guile
Having a really great time right now
aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaugh *throws self out window*Omicron said:
... More seriously, I kinda really like the ending bits, I probably should have kept playing instead of setting FF8 down during the long walk to Esthar and never picking it back up, as a teen. Waiting 15 years to read a Let's Play of how it ended is pretty on brand for me though.
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Didn't stop them anywhere earlier in the game.
Random Member
Gardener of Human Happiness
- Location
- Behind You
Of course. When a man creates a mercenary organization that does war crimes, it's okay. But when a woman....
Congratulations!
Truly a game of all time so long as you don't play it.
You've spoken about how it's a game meant to be replayed, but I disagree. It is a game meant to be experienced through the medium of Let's Play specifically. The entire thing, by your description, is a succession of breathtaking moments reaching the heights of kinema, separated by hours of miserable slog. Reading the let's Play allows us to experience those moments while leaving the slog to you. Truly, the perfect solution.
...
So, um, is there an alternate sequence playing out if you lose the fight?
Just asking.
For a friend.
And also myself.
And so the story ends as all things do: with Selphie killing everyone.
Truly a game of all time so long as you don't play it.
You've spoken about how it's a game meant to be replayed, but I disagree. It is a game meant to be experienced through the medium of Let's Play specifically. The entire thing, by your description, is a succession of breathtaking moments reaching the heights of kinema, separated by hours of miserable slog. Reading the let's Play allows us to experience those moments while leaving the slog to you. Truly, the perfect solution.
...
So, um, is there an alternate sequence playing out if you lose the fight?
Just asking.
For a friend.
And also myself.
And so the story ends as all things do: with Selphie killing everyone.
Kadmus
Dragon's teeth are surprisingly hard to sow
- Location
- Devon
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Fuck, I thought Ultimecia had a plan to get around around Ellone's stable time loop power, but nope! The entire game was predestined!
Honestly it feels like there were two completely disparate main plotlines they were using through the game, that they were executing simultaneously, but when the Lunar Cry happened they just cut the The Moon Is An Evil God plot entirely without bothering to go back and, you know, remove all the stuff that meant cutting it left a huge plot thread dangling wildly.
Considering the whole game was done in a year and a bit (Development started in 1997, game released in Japan in Feb 1999), I'm hardly surprised, though. I'm honestly surprised it has any coherency at all. I suspect they very literally had to just stop working on the second main plot line to get the game out the door in time.
Looking forward to seeing what I'll be 'spoiling' (read: combining basic pattern recognision, basic media literacy, and basic logic into a series of guesses about games I've never got that far in, one of which happens to be correct) with FF9. So far I've got 'Cloud was one of the faceless soldiers in the Nibelheim flashback' and 'Rinoa was a sorceress-in-potentia' (but that same post assumed Ellone was one, too, so I'm not personally convinced that post counts as a correct guess, really, especially since Rinoa wasn't an in-potentia anything at the time, she was an actual Sorceress). Can't wait for people to jump down my throat about an educated guess that happens to be partly correct again.
Honestly it feels like there were two completely disparate main plotlines they were using through the game, that they were executing simultaneously, but when the Lunar Cry happened they just cut the The Moon Is An Evil God plot entirely without bothering to go back and, you know, remove all the stuff that meant cutting it left a huge plot thread dangling wildly.
Considering the whole game was done in a year and a bit (Development started in 1997, game released in Japan in Feb 1999), I'm hardly surprised, though. I'm honestly surprised it has any coherency at all. I suspect they very literally had to just stop working on the second main plot line to get the game out the door in time.
Looking forward to seeing what I'll be 'spoiling' (read: combining basic pattern recognision, basic media literacy, and basic logic into a series of guesses about games I've never got that far in, one of which happens to be correct) with FF9. So far I've got 'Cloud was one of the faceless soldiers in the Nibelheim flashback' and 'Rinoa was a sorceress-in-potentia' (but that same post assumed Ellone was one, too, so I'm not personally convinced that post counts as a correct guess, really, especially since Rinoa wasn't an in-potentia anything at the time, she was an actual Sorceress). Can't wait for people to jump down my throat about an educated guess that happens to be partly correct again.
"Hello, new Sorceress! Welcome to Esthar. Please stand on that red X inside the Sorceress Adel Funtimes Space Elevator memorial. It is definitely not a trap."
Esthar Scientist: "I'd probably feel worse about making this time machine workable if it wasn't literally predestined that I would do so."
It's worth recalling that this is the second FF game in which a stable time loop is integral to the plot.
- Location
- Lost in Hell
Cyber-Odine: "Ves, vho vhould- vhone moment. Click. Sorry, auto-translator had a hiccup. Now, where was I? Yes, what kind of monster would continue their research for centuries into the future, even under the tyrannical rule of a sorceress???"
I feel like it's not as hard as some people were making it out to be, especially in the spoiler thread, because… the evidence and the hints are just sitting there. And there are so many of them! Even if Omni didn't come up with it I was starting to piece the same idea together myself, and I have no doubt hundreds more pieces of supporting evidence got left on the cutting room floor as time and budget annihilated the game's original story.
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RogueIce
Noctis Æternæ
- Location
- New Lunar Republic, Equestria
This is how I certainly have viewed it all. Thank you @Omicron The Final Fantasy Critic - you played it so I don't have to!
But more seriously, there were some excellent bits. I think when the story was more "grounded" for lack of a better term. The shady PMC bits, Galbadia trying to take over the world, the high school antics/romance bits, etc. But when the game remembered it was a Final Fantasy game and needed to have an apocalyptic threat - or even an outright apocalypse - it felt tacked on and fell flat. The Lunar Cry looked cool and intimidating and horrifying, but it basically amounted to a red filter and a new random encounter table for one little part of the world map. For one example.
Egleris
Vagrant Dragon
- Location
- Italy
While I do understand the criticism and annoyance with some aspects of FFVIII, I do want to break a lance in its favor, because there is one thing that it has that none of the other titles before it can truly match: it has the best ending in the series up to this point.
The less said about FFVII's ending, the better, but even compared to some of the better endings, like FFV or FFVI, there's been a notable trend in the series so far for the final portion of the game to be disappointing and/or a chore; but FFVIII is neither - the final section (starting from fighting Adel) follows mostly logically from the presented premise, has great atmosphere, the best final dungeon, an amazing video-epilogue, and a finale that satisfyingly resolve the primary plot-line (which is the relationship between Squall and Rinoa) while providing a mostly valid, if perhaps unpalatable to some, answer to a few important questions, and is generally most emotionally satisfying. Or at least, that's my take.
Again, I'm not ignoring the many issues FFVIII has, or that it dropped a number of plotlines midway-through, but as far as the final stretch of the game goes, it's much more solid than any of the previous titles managed to be. At least, in my opinion.
The less said about FFVII's ending, the better, but even compared to some of the better endings, like FFV or FFVI, there's been a notable trend in the series so far for the final portion of the game to be disappointing and/or a chore; but FFVIII is neither - the final section (starting from fighting Adel) follows mostly logically from the presented premise, has great atmosphere, the best final dungeon, an amazing video-epilogue, and a finale that satisfyingly resolve the primary plot-line (which is the relationship between Squall and Rinoa) while providing a mostly valid, if perhaps unpalatable to some, answer to a few important questions, and is generally most emotionally satisfying. Or at least, that's my take.
Again, I'm not ignoring the many issues FFVIII has, or that it dropped a number of plotlines midway-through, but as far as the final stretch of the game goes, it's much more solid than any of the previous titles managed to be. At least, in my opinion.
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- Pronouns
- She/They
Edea: "Hello dear, I just met a couple of time travellers. Apparently we're destined to run an amoral child soldier school in the future? Also one of them gave me the same powers as that famous Esthari war criminal, I suppose."
Cid: "Well, what luck! My friend here just had a very similar business proposition, but I wasn't sure about the moral ramifications. If we're destined to do it though, well, no time like the present - I guess we're on board NORG!"
NORG: "KNEW-YOU-SEE-REASON. MAKE-MONEY-ALL. SAVE-WORLD-MAYBE. Bujurururururu."
- Location
- Place
Maybe he did think about it for a bit...
Cid: *rubs forehead before putting his glasses back on* I know my wife told me that we'll raise these kids to be soldiers according to a time traveler, but can I really do that? *looks at kids*
Selphie: WAR!
Irvine: *goes along with whatever Selphie says*
Squall: *oozes edge in the corner*
Quistis: *practicing with whip, accurately hits the vase across the room and breaks it*
Seifer: *looking for a fight with a sneer*
Zell: *looks at Cid with teary eyes*
Cid: *sighs as he pats Zell in the back* Maybe we'll get you a boxing tutor, Zell.
Selphie: *in the background* WAR!!!
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WAR-WHAT-IS-IT-GOOD-FOR! PROFITS!
Look. I've seen the miracles NORG did with payroll. Fuck Squall and the Squad, NORG is the hero we need. Put him in charge of the national treasury.
- Location
- Between dreams and reality
OH-WAR-WHAT-IS-IT-GOOD-FOR!?!
ITS-GOOD-FOR-YOU! (it's good for you!)
ITS-GOOD-FOR-ME! (it's good for me!)
OH-WAR-WHAT-IS-IT-GOOD-FOR! (what is it good for?)
IT-STRENGTHENS-THE-ECONOMY!
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5L2Gve7oh_4
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- Location
- USA
One random thought: Does Selphie's blog diary keep updating all the way to the Lunar Pandora assault?
I admit to being curious, and I don't recall in my own playthrough (lo, over two decades ago) going back to the Garden after the Esthar and space station sequences because the airship was just too convenient. But in terms of minor world-building details: Does Selphie gush over Squall and Rinoa getting to go to space? About this shiny new red flying toy she's now flying? About meeting Laguna in person?!
I admit to being curious, and I don't recall in my own playthrough (lo, over two decades ago) going back to the Garden after the Esthar and space station sequences because the airship was just too convenient. But in terms of minor world-building details: Does Selphie gush over Squall and Rinoa getting to go to space? About this shiny new red flying toy she's now flying? About meeting Laguna in person?!
- Location
- Place
Somehow, writing about a beleaguered (how did I spell that correctly in one go) Cid and how he set everything up for a stable time loop was inspiring, so have some more.
Cid's Memoirs: Taking the path more traveled by, according to my wife according to that time traveler she met that one time
Smith: So you want a sword... and a gun... and combine them?
Cid: *nods* That's right.
Smith: But it's something that explicitly can't be a bayonet?
Cid: *winces* Yes, that's important too. Maybe some sort of, blade... gun? Or maybe a gunblade! Eh? Eh?
Smith: ...
Cid: ...
Smith: Get out.
------------------------------------------------
Cid: *trudges through a jungle in his vest and tweed trousers with a grunt and looks at map*
Cid: Alright. According to Edea, the Centra shelter that will become the Garden is just over this hill.
Cid: Garden, huh. A bit of a strage name for the headquarters of a mercenary group, but maybe it's because it'll have an eco-friendly aesthetic?
Cid: *passes through foilage and sees the gargantuan metal contraption that looks like it belongs in a dieselpunk videogame with a bigger carbon footprint than Ifrit on a drunken bender*
Cid: ...
Cid: A bit of a fixer upper, I guess.
Oilboyle: *ROARS*
------------------------------------------------
Clerk: All right sir, just a few more things before all the paperwork is filled out. What will be the name of your mercenary group? Suggestions include names like Red Wings or SOLDIER or-
Cid: SeeD.
Clerk: ...Sir?
Cid: We'll call them SeeDs.
Clerk: Um, sir, I know this is your mercenary group and all, but if you could just explain your reasoning...?
Cid: Because they'll live in a Garden.
Clerk: ...But why is it called a Garden?
Cid: ...Because they're SeeDs.
Clerk: ...
Cid: ...
Cid: Oh! One more thing. Capitlizing the 'D' in SeeD is importan-
------------------------------------------------
Cid: *sits on the bar stool, exhausted*
Cid: I still don't know what I'll do about the budget...
BUJURURURU!
Cid: Oh, for the love of-
Cid's Memoirs: Taking the path more traveled by, according to my wife according to that time traveler she met that one time
Smith: So you want a sword... and a gun... and combine them?
Cid: *nods* That's right.
Smith: But it's something that explicitly can't be a bayonet?
Cid: *winces* Yes, that's important too. Maybe some sort of, blade... gun? Or maybe a gunblade! Eh? Eh?
Smith: ...
Cid: ...
Smith: Get out.
------------------------------------------------
Cid: *trudges through a jungle in his vest and tweed trousers with a grunt and looks at map*
Cid: Alright. According to Edea, the Centra shelter that will become the Garden is just over this hill.
Cid: Garden, huh. A bit of a strage name for the headquarters of a mercenary group, but maybe it's because it'll have an eco-friendly aesthetic?
Cid: *passes through foilage and sees the gargantuan metal contraption that looks like it belongs in a dieselpunk videogame with a bigger carbon footprint than Ifrit on a drunken bender*
Cid: ...
Cid: A bit of a fixer upper, I guess.
Oilboyle: *ROARS*
------------------------------------------------
Clerk: All right sir, just a few more things before all the paperwork is filled out. What will be the name of your mercenary group? Suggestions include names like Red Wings or SOLDIER or-
Cid: SeeD.
Clerk: ...Sir?
Cid: We'll call them SeeDs.
Clerk: Um, sir, I know this is your mercenary group and all, but if you could just explain your reasoning...?
Cid: Because they'll live in a Garden.
Clerk: ...But why is it called a Garden?
Cid: ...Because they're SeeDs.
Clerk: ...
Cid: ...
Cid: Oh! One more thing. Capitlizing the 'D' in SeeD is importan-
------------------------------------------------
Cid: *sits on the bar stool, exhausted*
Cid: I still don't know what I'll do about the budget...
BUJURURURU!
Cid: Oh, for the love of-
- Pronouns
- He
Yes, but only if you're in the Balamb infirmary with her not in the party, between the real world hours of eleven PM and midnight, Japan time.
You need to beat Marlboro ten times with Zell, take the item it drops on the tenth time and show it to Cid. Then she makes a comment from off-screen.
Lose to Laguna in the card game on Ragnarok.
I mean, of course. It stands for DANGER ZONE after all.
Egleris
Vagrant Dragon
- Location
- Italy
Yes, Selphie's last entry, at least from what I checked as I was going through the game for my translation comparison, is about the plan to defeat Artemisia; she's doesn't gush about meeting Laguna per se, but she does writes that his plan of love and friendship is a wonderful one, that she's sure it'll work, and she can't wait to put it into action.
The previous entry, as I think @Omicron mentioned, has her gushing about being able to fly the Ragnarock and then about how she can't wait to meet Laguna. The diary is very Selphie-centric, it focuses more on what she herself is feeling rather than what the rest of the team is going through, so there isn't much about Squall and Rinoa, but she does says that she's rooting for them at one point, and when Squall leaves the Garden to bring Rinoa to Esthar, she says to everybody not to judge him harshly, that the situation is complicated and he needs to take care of Rinoa right now.
It's entirely possible that there's another entry, since the point of no return is actually the end of Disk 3, so it's technically possible to make it all the way to Seifer's door and then get out of the Lunatic Pandora and back to Garden, but honestly I've never checked and I don't have a save there - I can double check if people want me to, but I don't imagine there might be very much added in.
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