Zap Rowsdower
Ex-cultist vagrant
- Location
- Bright lights, big city
- Pronouns
- He/Him
*looks suspiciously at Squall starting the game with the Naked Blue Lady GF already assigned to him*
Let's Play Every Final Fantasy Game In Order Of Release [Now Finished: Final Fantasy Tactics]
- Thread starter Omicron
- Start date
- Let's Play
Not vibing with Adel's classic look of "floor-length skirt + bodypaint + your enemy's girlfriend"?
Kuja
I'M A SQUIIIID
- Location
- AZ
- Pronouns
- He/Him
"And for the finishing touch, a little something from the Heartilly line."
- Location
- The Great Beyond
- Pronouns
- He/She/They
so what you're saying is that Shiva is Trans!Squall's HRT?
MiskWisk
Hoot
- Location
- Somewhere devoid of wit
- Pronouns
- He
Well we've finally passed the point I dropped out at. The Adel boss fight.
My lack of understanding of the mechanics of the game had led to, among other things, focusing hard on multi hit damage. Either it'd all target one enemy for a lot or chip the entire encounter down. Runs into a critical flaw here though.
Honestly it wasn't even a conscious decision to quit on my part. I put the game down intending to pick it up again later and just... never did.
Still, goes to show how much simpler knowing what you're doing makes this.
My lack of understanding of the mechanics of the game had led to, among other things, focusing hard on multi hit damage. Either it'd all target one enemy for a lot or chip the entire encounter down. Runs into a critical flaw here though.
Honestly it wasn't even a conscious decision to quit on my part. I put the game down intending to pick it up again later and just... never did.
Still, goes to show how much simpler knowing what you're doing makes this.
So, hey, what do you know, she did.
What we must understand is that during Adel's reign of Esthar, it was perfectly legal to eat sorceress candidates to absorb their power and precious body fluids. Can we truly judge Adel by the standards of our own enlightened culture when she lived most of her life in a country shaped by the will of a terrible tyrant Adel? I don't think so.
And, of course, we shouldn't let a few missteps to overshadow Adel's many genuine accomplishments. She was, for example, the first Esthar astronaut to spend a month in moon orbit, and she was continuously beating the record since then.
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Egleris
Vagrant Dragon
- Location
- Italy
That can be troublesome, yes. The way you want to level up characters so that they catch up (instead of pushing Squall ever higher) is to have him petrified or dead while the other two level. And, of course, if you level on the Island Closest to Hell (or Heaven), enemy level is fixed, so Squall's presence won't interfere.
Leveling with Squall dead on the Island Closest to Hell also means you don't need to worry about the Ruby Dragon's breath or Meteor, so the only other real threats at that point, provided you are well defended against the fire and lightning elements, are the T-Rexaur's tail slap and the Marlboro's bad breath. If you prepare for those two (by prioritizing Status and HP junction / defense abilities) then leveling up isn't too hard; and having a party member knocked out makes Limit Breaks more likely. Most enemies there are weak to Sleep Status Atk, so having two people with it will lessen most danger, as well.
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- Location
- Italy
Sorceresses Adel should have just started her reign in Galbadia instead of Eshtar. Ain't no way she would have been overthrown by the Simp nation.
E.I.G.
Robo-Bird
- Pronouns
- It/They
Ah, but have you considered Yellow Lightning Bird is also a starting GF?
... okay, that just makes Naked Blue and Yellow Lady Lightning Bird when combined, but presumably Squall would contribute clothing to that result when using both at once.
I might have had... I might have a bit of a crush on FFVIII Quetzacotl. That wing flap is stuck in my mind despite not finishing the game myself.
Is this why Seifer's still in charge? Game recognizes game?
Kadmus
Dragon's teeth are surprisingly hard to sow
- Location
- Devon
- Pronouns
- He/Him
God, FF just can't resist the urge to fuck up its own narrative to deliberately destroy player agency, can it? First the loser failson kills Odin (somehow? despite never being particularly menacing in or out of combat?) just to have a completely random fanservice callback that would make 0 sense to anyone who hadn't played FFV - which was everyone outside of Japan at the time of FFVIII's release in Japan, and only just got in under the wire for 'technically you could have bought FF Anthology and played V if you were in the US' for the international releases.
Then there's the nonsense with Rinoa, Sorceress and woman with a kill count that makes her very existence a WMD, somehow just not resisting this guy who's clearly supposed to be exhausted and not at his best, who the party have already beaten the tar out of, while he drags her off to Adel. You know, something they didn't need to include, because the party was going to be going to her next anyway? You could have had Seifer just get wrecked, party goes to Adel, cue spooky Sorceress music as she lunges out of her prison to grab Rinoa while magically deflecting all their attacks.
It's just a baffling set of self-owns.
(Also do you get to change your junctions before the Adel fight, or are you Just Fucked if you've been using the probably-intended team of Squall, Rinoa, [insert third wheel here]?)
Then there's the nonsense with Rinoa, Sorceress and woman with a kill count that makes her very existence a WMD, somehow just not resisting this guy who's clearly supposed to be exhausted and not at his best, who the party have already beaten the tar out of, while he drags her off to Adel. You know, something they didn't need to include, because the party was going to be going to her next anyway? You could have had Seifer just get wrecked, party goes to Adel, cue spooky Sorceress music as she lunges out of her prison to grab Rinoa while magically deflecting all their attacks.
It's just a baffling set of self-owns.
(Also do you get to change your junctions before the Adel fight, or are you Just Fucked if you've been using the probably-intended team of Squall, Rinoa, [insert third wheel here]?)
Omegahugger
Inattentive Idiot
This one is not too unbelieveable. The party was able to beat Odin themselves, after all (even if he was sandbagging), and Seifer has consistently been depicted as a threat to the entire party on his lonesome.
This is even the first game where the Summons in general can be killed, just to make it clear that what Seifer did was possible.
Entropy Judge
Recurring Bouts of Misanthropy
Yeah. There's even a disc change right before the fight, so you're guaranteed to have a chance to make a game save. (Or required to, I don't remember how disc changes worked.)
Kadmus
Dragon's teeth are surprisingly hard to sow
- Location
- Devon
- Pronouns
- He/Him
I mean, my fundamental problem is that Seifer is just depicted as... like, just a top-tier SeeD? And you have 5 top-tier SeeDs in your party, plus a Sorceress, at this point; it's kinda silly to even have him still be relevant, and he's positioned, narratively, as a pathetic figure in this fight? Having him do a 'super cool' kill Odin thing just doesn't really gel with the rest of his presentation, and the very silly fanservice cameo just sorta destroys any narrative weight the fight was aiming for.
Like, I get that people like Gilgamesh, it's just not really the right place to have a silly cameo and it absolutely wrecks whatever seriousness you want Seifer to have left in him.
- Location
- Lost in Hell
I'm walking back in after a long absence to note a few things I find very important.
I want to put a pin in Adel's face melting and leaving a hollow in it? Just for later. But for now…
I think I've figured out Junctioning; poorly explained as it is.
Doctor Odine claims to have discovered junctioning. Junctioning seems to largely be used to store/use magic in imitation of the Sorceress - of Adel specifically. Adel junctioned Rinoa to herself to drain and absorb her powers. I don't think that was modern Junctioning - I think that's just a power they have. Odine learned Junctioning from Adel, hypothetically witnessed it a few times, and… I kinda putter out here trying to figure out GF's. The theory conforms to Adel eating girls with the potential to be a sorceress, by Junctioning them, but-
Junctioning is an imitation of the technique Adel potentially used on others with a sorceress's potential. To junction is to graft and then absorb something else. What SEEDs use is an uneven version of that or an equal exchange, explaining the memory loss.
I'm not sure that's entirely correct because I looked something very specific up about this game and I have a fuller theory about how Sorceresses are or were intended to work, but. Saving that for later.
My only guess about how disc 4 goes is an endgame dungeon and then a final boss fight cause I don't know what the fuck else they have to do at this point so at least I won't be waiting long to share.
I want to put a pin in Adel's face melting and leaving a hollow in it? Just for later. But for now…
I think I've figured out Junctioning; poorly explained as it is.
Doctor Odine claims to have discovered junctioning. Junctioning seems to largely be used to store/use magic in imitation of the Sorceress - of Adel specifically. Adel junctioned Rinoa to herself to drain and absorb her powers. I don't think that was modern Junctioning - I think that's just a power they have. Odine learned Junctioning from Adel, hypothetically witnessed it a few times, and… I kinda putter out here trying to figure out GF's. The theory conforms to Adel eating girls with the potential to be a sorceress, by Junctioning them, but-
Junctioning is an imitation of the technique Adel potentially used on others with a sorceress's potential. To junction is to graft and then absorb something else. What SEEDs use is an uneven version of that or an equal exchange, explaining the memory loss.
I'm not sure that's entirely correct because I looked something very specific up about this game and I have a fuller theory about how Sorceresses are or were intended to work, but. Saving that for later.
My only guess about how disc 4 goes is an endgame dungeon and then a final boss fight cause I don't know what the fuck else they have to do at this point so at least I won't be waiting long to share.
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- Pronouns
- She/Her
Look, I like high femme styles and I want to see how someone who has a demonstrated preference for that style an outfit on a body more like mine.
- Location
- Fabulously Rainbow Ireland
Well looks like someone is salty at the PURE AWESOMENESS
Especially since I literally played and beat FFVIII as a kid before V and thought the Gilgamesh interrupt was Lit AF despite not knowing who this guy was other than a random GF dude so I'd argue most people playing at the time probably enjoyed it.
EDIT:
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fFl9kBvm9JU
Seriously this is fucking SICK
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- Pronouns
- She/They
Stepping back a second to how much effort Squall puts into being seen by others, and I just remembered this scene:
And like, this is a man who is hyper-aware of how people perceive him, who puts active effort into cultivating a persona that keeps people at arm's length to make sure that their perception of him is one of his choosing. You can't tell me he hasn't put hours into putting together his own outfit to reinforce that image of aloof badass mercenary - I'd put money down that if you searched his room, you would find a pile of sketchbooks full of outfit designs where he tried to put together the Coolest Mercenary Look.
(Which, hm... does this count as overperforming masculinity? I'm not saying it is, but there's definitely more fuel there for a trans Squall interpretation than I thought at first)
Anyway, new update!
God I'm always a sucker for a character dropping a pattern of speech for a genuine hearfelt moment, 10/10 right there. It would've been nice if this wasn't a repeat of a previoue plot point, but as it is it really is fantastic.
It also confirms that Fujin's speech pattern is fully a conscious decision on her part and every time she speaks she's choosing to continue comitting to the bit, I love her for that. Once again I would love to see a sidestory of Seifer, Fujin, and Raijin, because every glimpse we get I like what I see more. I kind of hope these goobers can go on a post-game road trip or something and rekindle their friendship, because dang it I want them to be happy.
Also I don't know if I'm slow, but I'm only just realizing that those three are very much foils to Laguna, Ward, and Kiros, with the core difference being that Seifer isn't willing to open his heart to love, friendship, and courage. It gives a nice example to Squall that yeah, this is what your life might look like if you never opened up, this is why your friends are so important.
Man the mission to dredge up the Lunatic Pandora must have been one hell of an adventure, look at what it did to this lad. I mean given how important this thing was, it probably had a whole suite of bosses he had to go through - which, I do like how you can imagine some of the offscreen adventures otber characters have gone through, it makes the world feel just that little bit bigger, little bit more real.
It's a shame that his boss fight kind of lets him down though. I'm not exactly surprised, given how FF8's combat has been overall, and boss design can be difficult at the best of times, but it's still unfortunate.
At some point I wonder if it'd be interesting to do a bit of a retrospective on boss fights in FF, because you want them to be challenges and big hype moments and more than just slapping a guy with your strongest attacks while occasionally healing, while also not being a brick wall you have to ram your face against. FF has if nothing else been willing to iterate on mechanics across games, and I'm curious which ones have had the best gamefeel for the big spectacular fights.
Okay now hear me out, I know we're here to stop Adel, but have we considered the possible benefits of letting her win? I mean I'm sure she has a verh progressive tax policy-
Honestly I would have loved for Adel to have more screen time, and I'm wondering if her not having it is an intentional storytelling choice on Square's part or if it's something they never got around to fleshing out? I'd love to pick the brains of some of FF's writers because having these big important figures remain distant and not interacting with the main cast has to be intentional, right? But with how often you can see the limitations of time and budget in games you never really know.
Also, now that we're entering Time Compression and, officially, the endgame, I'm realizing that the whole intelligent monsters just being a part of society also kind of got dropped? I remember being really intrigued about that back when we first saw them in Timber, but I guess it was just. A neat background detail?
And like, this is a man who is hyper-aware of how people perceive him, who puts active effort into cultivating a persona that keeps people at arm's length to make sure that their perception of him is one of his choosing. You can't tell me he hasn't put hours into putting together his own outfit to reinforce that image of aloof badass mercenary - I'd put money down that if you searched his room, you would find a pile of sketchbooks full of outfit designs where he tried to put together the Coolest Mercenary Look.
(Which, hm... does this count as overperforming masculinity? I'm not saying it is, but there's definitely more fuel there for a trans Squall interpretation than I thought at first)
Anyway, new update!
Fujin: "POSSE…"
Fujin: "We are. We always will be. Because we're a posse, we want to help you. Whatever it takes to fulfill your dream, we're willing to do."
Wait, Fujin can talk normally!?
Fujin: "But… You're being manipulated, Seifer. You've lost yourself and your dream. You're just eating out of someone's hand."
Fujin: "We want the old you back! Since we can't get through to you, all we have now to rely on is Squall!"
Fujin: "It's sad… Sad that we only have Squall to rely on… Seifer! Are you still gonna keep goin'?"
God I'm always a sucker for a character dropping a pattern of speech for a genuine hearfelt moment, 10/10 right there. It would've been nice if this wasn't a repeat of a previoue plot point, but as it is it really is fantastic.
It also confirms that Fujin's speech pattern is fully a conscious decision on her part and every time she speaks she's choosing to continue comitting to the bit, I love her for that. Once again I would love to see a sidestory of Seifer, Fujin, and Raijin, because every glimpse we get I like what I see more. I kind of hope these goobers can go on a post-game road trip or something and rekindle their friendship, because dang it I want them to be happy.
Also I don't know if I'm slow, but I'm only just realizing that those three are very much foils to Laguna, Ward, and Kiros, with the core difference being that Seifer isn't willing to open his heart to love, friendship, and courage. It gives a nice example to Squall that yeah, this is what your life might look like if you never opened up, this is why your friends are so important.
Look at him. Our boy is ragged.
Man the mission to dredge up the Lunatic Pandora must have been one hell of an adventure, look at what it did to this lad. I mean given how important this thing was, it probably had a whole suite of bosses he had to go through - which, I do like how you can imagine some of the offscreen adventures otber characters have gone through, it makes the world feel just that little bit bigger, little bit more real.
It's a shame that his boss fight kind of lets him down though. I'm not exactly surprised, given how FF8's combat has been overall, and boss design can be difficult at the best of times, but it's still unfortunate.
At some point I wonder if it'd be interesting to do a bit of a retrospective on boss fights in FF, because you want them to be challenges and big hype moments and more than just slapping a guy with your strongest attacks while occasionally healing, while also not being a brick wall you have to ram your face against. FF has if nothing else been willing to iterate on mechanics across games, and I'm curious which ones have had the best gamefeel for the big spectacular fights.
Okay now hear me out, I know we're here to stop Adel, but have we considered the possible benefits of letting her win? I mean I'm sure she has a verh progressive tax policy-
Honestly I would have loved for Adel to have more screen time, and I'm wondering if her not having it is an intentional storytelling choice on Square's part or if it's something they never got around to fleshing out? I'd love to pick the brains of some of FF's writers because having these big important figures remain distant and not interacting with the main cast has to be intentional, right? But with how often you can see the limitations of time and budget in games you never really know.
Also, now that we're entering Time Compression and, officially, the endgame, I'm realizing that the whole intelligent monsters just being a part of society also kind of got dropped? I remember being really intrigued about that back when we first saw them in Timber, but I guess it was just. A neat background detail?
cB557
voOOP
Oh I'm completely the opposite here, this is the best bit in the entire game so far.
- Location
- Fabulously Rainbow Ireland
oh and no, IMHO the implication is in fact that Zantetsuken is so sharp it cut the very storm in half when it got sent flying by Odin's death (and in fact may have sliced open an entry in the Dimensional Rift and that's how Gilgamesh arrives in FFVIII by literally falling out of the hole Zantetsuken cut in the sky/reality).
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Guile
Having a really great time right now
It's wild that getting Odin instantly makes Seifer as hype as he's ever been, before immediately turning into comedy antagonist territory.
It's what he deserves.
It's what he deserves.
If Ultimecia speaks in ze German accent, I vill lose my shit
- Pronouns
- He/Him
We've heard her speak through Edea, and that wasn't present at the time.
Guile
Having a really great time right now
To say nothing of the Blues Brothers-esque 'get the team back together for one last job' moment that clearly happened off-screen, to get Fujin and Raijin back on-side.
Seifer: "Ain't nobody needs any of that if you got LOVE, FRIENDSHIP AND COURAGE"
Raijin: "We're out, ya'know?"
Seifer: "Two out of three!"
Everyone: "Bad news, Seifer."
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- Pronouns
- Him/He
You know, we don't know anything about Seifer's backstory besides the orphanage. And he keeps being mirrored by Squall... And has quite a lot of Laguna-coded traits....
Maybe the real hidden plot implication is that Seifer is Squall's half-brother, Unknown to all. After all, we know just how closely Laguna keeps track of kids (Not at all).
Maybe the real hidden plot implication is that Seifer is Squall's half-brother, Unknown to all. After all, we know just how closely Laguna keeps track of kids (Not at all).