Let's Play Every Final Fantasy Game In Order Of Release [Now Finished: Final Fantasy Tactics]

Themed skill grids (ideally with them all on the same big grid, so if you really want to you can get Ninja Thief Girl all the nodes from Giant Sword Twink's starting area you absolutely can) are probably the best way to do 'specialised but highly-customisable characters', yeah.
 
I generally like the interchangeability. I'd rather take my preferred characters than, for example, needing to bring the one healer character with you throughout the entire game.

DQ 11 gives each character 3 weapons and each weapon corresponds to one chunk of the skill tree (plus an extra character-specific tree: Guile or Luminary or whatever).

It's not perfect, because some builds are inevitably better than others, but the ability to loop around from Sword to Greatsword, or need to go down both trees to get a REALLY good combination ability, gives you a lot of options without requiring a lot of backtracking.

Some later Final Fantasies will have that skill grid style, and it's a good setup. Some, like Remake, are pretty much 'a skill grid exists, but it's basically a straight line', and that's kind of lame.
If DQ11 had gone with a single universal skill web, with each character's starting point being a different location, and maybe a few character specific exclusives, that'd probably be the best approach for my tastes.

DQ9 leans more toward the Western blank slate protagonist, completely customizable approach. You have a number of classes, some locked behind quests. Each class has a unique skill line (and they are lines, no branching trees, just skill 1-100) such as Courage for Warrior, or Acquisitiveness for Thief. The other skills are weapons (sword, axe, claws, etc) and shield. All skills cross over when changing classes, so it can be easier to get a weapon skill maxed out by swapping between multiple classes with the same skill instead of trying to get a single class to lvl 99.

I feel it was a good balance between customization and mechanically distinct, considering your party members were either other people—if you had friends with their own DS and game copy—or complete blank slate, basically NPCs that you pick up in a tavern.
 
All of this and no one is discussing the obviously superior class system of Golden Sun, in which your character class is decided on a grid and it can change mid-battle based on what spells you use
 

The class of each character, and therefore stats and available "spell list" in Golden Sun is determined by the total distribution of elemental affinities on the character which is altered by equipping them with Djinn.

Because part of the main gameplay loop in battle (and to a degree for puzzle solving out of battle) involves strategically using each Djinni's unique power to unequip them and set them aside for powerful summons, you'll go through classes like nobody's business.

Unless you're a boring shitlord like I was and just stack mono-elements to spam the highest tier summons.
 
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The class of each character, and therefore stats and available "spell list" in Golden Sun is determined by the total distribution of elemental affinities on the character which is altered by equipping them with Djinn.

Because part of the main gameplay loop in battle (and to a degree for puzzle solving out of battle) involves strategically using each Djinni's unique power to unequip them and set them aside for powerful summons, you'll go through classes like nobody's business.

Unless you're a boring shitlord like I was and just stack mono-elements to spam the highest tier summons.
It too bad that such an interesting combat system was tied to a plot that was both dumb and way, way to wordy for a gba game.
 
Listen, I know Lyse is hot, but she has the personality of a plank of wood and a whole White Savior narrative bundled up around her, Just Say No to marital arts with Lyse Hext-

I know this is the FFVII thread, but I'm interested in this line of thought, because I'm in a replay of Stormblood on an alt and I find this take... well, the personality thing I'm not going to necessarily dispute though I disagree with it, I don't find her a character of particular depth compared to someone like Ysayle or even Estinien, but "White Savior"? Unless we're operating on different definitions of the term, I'm not sure I see anything "White Savior"-y about her, in the ways of characters like Jake Sully or whatever the hell Tom Cruise's character's name is in "Last Samurai".
 
Golden Sun has fixed party composition and a complicated (and slightly bonkers) dynamic summons-equipped-spells-cast-summons-used class system. Oh, and you need to fuck around with the equipped summons to get access to the out-of-combat skills used to traverse environments by e.g. growing plants to make ladders so you can get up cliffs. It was Way Too Complicated for younger me, I'll tell you that.
 
Golden Sun has fixed party composition and a complicated (and slightly bonkers) dynamic summons-equipped-spells-cast-summons-used class system. Oh, and you need to fuck around with the equipped summons to get access to the out-of-combat skills used to traverse environments by e.g. growing plants to make ladders so you can get up cliffs. It was Way Too Complicated for younger me, I'll tell you that.

Removing skill and stat customization also makes this a solved problem :D
 
Golden Sun has fixed party composition and a complicated (and slightly bonkers) dynamic summons-equipped-spells-cast-summons-used class system. Oh, and you need to fuck around with the equipped summons to get access to the out-of-combat skills used to traverse environments by e.g. growing plants to make ladders so you can get up cliffs. It was Way Too Complicated for younger me, I'll tell you that.
Also those out-of-combat skills take up space in your incredibly limited inventory, and most of them aren't different enough to justify it - you need two separate slots for 'conjure magic hand to push things' and 'conjure magic had to lift things,' for example.
 
I know this is the FFVII thread, but I'm interested in this line of thought, because I'm in a replay of Stormblood on an alt and I find this take... well, the personality thing I'm not going to necessarily dispute though I disagree with it, I don't find her a character of particular depth compared to someone like Ysayle or even Estinien, but "White Savior"? Unless we're operating on different definitions of the term, I'm not sure I see anything "White Savior"-y about her, in the ways of characters like Jake Sully or whatever the hell Tom Cruise's character's name is in "Last Samurai".
Sorry, it's a bit of an in-joke that I didn't realize might not come across clearly in text/without the in-group reference.

Because of the big character twist that introduces her as "Lyse" rather than the name she went by before, Lyse's character design dates back to 1.0 FFXIV, in which Highlander Hyur (who are darker-skinned and have a major narrative throughline about being refugees into Eorzea) only had male models, so the character Lyse used to be known as was represented by a Midlander (light-skinned) Hyur model. By the time she had her big character arc and returned to Ala Mhigo to help in its liberation, female Highlander Hyur models were introduced, but obviously they weren't going to have Lyse's skin magically endarkened with the reveal of her true identity. The result is an oddity in which Lyse, belonging to a darker-skinned people, looks like the whitest white woman on earth, and her narrative arc is about her coming to Ala Mhigo to rescue it from the oppressor.

It's not actually a White Savior narrative, because Lyse is an Ala Mhigan native who is fighting for her homeland, it's just that a combination of historical artifacts of the long production of FFXIV results in a very funny accidental result where Lyse stands out of the whole Ala Mhigan Resistance, including her own father, who looks like this, as the Whitest Woman Who Ever Lived.

It's not, like, Problematic or Cancellable, I just find it extremely funny.
 
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The joke flew past by me as well, didn't think about how Lyse's model is that of a Midlander. I wasn't typing a Ted Talk about why she might have been read as a White Savior by someone not at all nuh-huh I also wouldn't mind to have her punch me with her "marital arts" sorry not sorry look she won me with how earnest she is what the hell do you want from me

About systems before, I haven't played the recent remake but a "simple-ish" one I'd like to see worked further was the one from Seiken Densetsu 3/Trials of Mana. You start selection a main character from among six, and two more join later as secondary and tertiary characters. Twice during the game, you're allowed to have each character choose between two evolved jobs, each further allowing another choice of two endgame jobs (so four in total). Simple as it was compared to ie: being able to go nuts in FFTactics, it gave you plenty of ground to experiment with different path combinations to form a different composition. Something with added deep could maybe fit a main FF game while maintaining a compromise of characterization and customization, I think.

Say you apply it to FFVII. Theoretically Yuffie could start as a basic thief/ninja with a perennial Steal skill, and depending on materia you equip her, her limits and abilities add/change, while retaining her basic skills and not clashing with the narrative in a situation like this one in Wutai (yes I know she's the one stealing the materia here, Steal was the first mostly narrative skill that came to mind).
 
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Golden Sun had some great ideas that I wish I saw being iterated on more often. I had some great fun with it.

That said, if we're looking back to final fantasy class systems, my personal opinion is that Bravely Default is probably the most true to form successor to FFV. With its own defend-command-based twist. Four mechanically (but not narratively) blank slate heroes you need to develop power sets for by mixing and matching character classes and all that.

But looking back towards FF7, I guess they just took FF6's character gimmicks and made them limit breaks, then doubled down on the teach-anyone-magic bit of magicite. At the caveat of being vulnerable to depowerment by phantom thief Yuffie. It kind of swings back awkwardly around towards a very different feeling customizability than FF5 had.
 
Hey now! Chrono Trigger also locked down customization and it's widely regarded as one of the best games ever made!
Yeah, but not really for the combat system - it's everything else around it that's great. And the combat system itself has other elements that compensate for the lack of customization; things like team attacks, for example.

It's fine that you like it better when the characters are fixed, but playing a game is making choices within a structure, and being unable to make choices on the strategical level (character build) and being limited to the tactical level (battles), while fine in itself (it's what action/adventure games are about) is obviously depriving the player of something, something which RPG (with their greater focus on strategic decision making compared to action-games' focus on tactical decision making) are supposed to provide and, thus, should be rated worse for lacking.
 
I really like how Octopath does things. There is Class-switching, but every character keeps their original class as they change. So the Gal starting as Hunter never gets to dip into any the Apothecary-Dancer synergy, unlike the original Dancer and Apothecary. Then there is some character-specific stuff, especially in the sequel, to ensure the two candidates for Apothecary-Dancer don't end up identical even if they both pursue that path.
 
I know this is the FFVII thread, but I'm interested in this line of thought, because I'm in a replay of Stormblood on an alt and I find this take... well, the personality thing I'm not going to necessarily dispute though I disagree with it, I don't find her a character of particular depth compared to someone like Ysayle or even Estinien, but "White Savior"? Unless we're operating on different definitions of the term, I'm not sure I see anything "White Savior"-y about her, in the ways of characters like Jake Sully or whatever the hell Tom Cruise's character's name is in "Last Samurai".
It's not actually a White Savior narrative, because Lyse is an Ala Mhigan native who is fighting for her homeland, it's just that a combination of historical artifacts of the long production of FFXIV results in a very funny accidental result where Lyse stands out of the whole Ala Mhigan Resistance, including her own father, who looks like this, as the Whitest Woman Who Ever Lived.
I assumed Omi was referencing that bit when, uh, Callow Youth or whatever they were calling him at the time, called her out. About how fighters like Lyse left, and that enabled her and Meffrid and etc. to come back at the head of a small army with funding and outside help, and have no family for the oppressing Garleans to hold hostage for their good behavior.

And how it was great that they were back and could fight and all that. But they still left.

Really rather gutting, for both Lyse and me. Stormblood was a discomfortingly Real war narrative in some ways.
 
I would say it's weird how Yuffie can just tell people in town what to do and they obey immediately without question and they're all deferential to her in conversation and unusally call her 'Miss' and she somehow has the pull to just hang out in random people's houses and build secret underground lairs, but, uh, Runaway Secret Ninja Princess is absolutely one of the cliches the FF devs are gonna have no hesitation in busting out, right? It feels on-brand and fits the evidence. She even complains about her dad!
Yeah, so, it turns out you were completely right, I just missed the dialogue about it on my first go around, but: Yuffie is, in fact, Lord Godo's daughter. She is literally a Runaway Secret Ninja Princess. More on this next update.

Man, I don't remember when it was, but at some point in my JRPG experiences I went from never ever buying status effect cures and the like because "meh waste of money" to almost always stacking 10-20 of each because they tend to be cheap and every once in a while, come in clutch.
Yeah, I had ended up picking up the same attitude at some point in the rest of this Let's Play, but FF7 is, it turns out, a game where money matters more than in previous games and where I have found myself regularly running out of funds without being able to fully upgrade my party, so status effect consumables ended up being an afterthought or a "nice to have" thing more than regular purchases.

Except for Hypers. Gotta keep my party topped up on meth-

(I'm told the game eventually reaches a point where you have access to Infinite Money Tricks but I'm not there yet.)

Well, I suppose if any nation is going to be able to make an effective terrorist squad when properly equipped with some good materia, it's Wutai.

After all: Ninjas.

Is now a good time to point out you could have uh... just waited until the game brought you around to Gold Saucer again? Like say, when you eventually got whatever kind of airship this game gives you?

Well, it's your hour to spend I suppose.

OKAY BUT LET'S TALK ABOUT THE NINJAS THOUGH

Like - they show up for literally one shot

They're carrying Yuffie away at Don Corneo's orders and then they just never appear again

They're not with Corneo at the Da-Chao Mural, we don't fight them as random encounters, we have no idea how Corneo even found those ninjas or recruited them or-

They just show up and disappear with no explanation???

Appropriate for ninjas I suppose

With Yuffie's materia theft to try to help Wutai, and Yuffie featuring heavily in the intergrade, now you know what the main theory for how Rebirth is going to justify starting everybody off at level 1 with no endgame equipment or materia is!


Although that did still suffer from the "limited sprite tilesets make the counterpart cultures all look pretty European" issue FF6 had with Doma, at least outside of the artbook.

Hmmm.

So, my read on Doma is that it wasn't meant to be non-European in aesthetic; I'd sort of interpreted Cyan as a foreigner to Doma, who had settled there and sworn loyalty to the King, hence his name and odd speech pattern.

Of course, we explore the entirety of FFVI's setting and we never find another place for Cyan to have been from, so I guess it's not meant to be canon, but I'd almost forgotten that it was something I brought in and not how it's presented in the game as it exists.

You'll be pleased to know that this is something corrected by Remake, as while the Steal materia itself may still exist, Yuffie knows Mug as an ATB move that's accessible on all but one of her weapons in Intermission so presumably she will be able to rob people no matter what in Rebirth.
Based, need to actually play Intergrade

Corneo: "ALRIGHT LADIES IT'S BIBLE ROLEPLAY TIME, WHICH OF YOU WANTS TO BE DISMAS AND WHICH OF YOU WANTS TO BE GESTAS"
Yuffie: "What's the difference!?"
Corneo: "IF YOU DID THE READING YOU'D KNOW"

I-

What the hell, how did you just have Dismas and Gestas's names off the top of your head, I had to google them because I'd never heard those names in my life, is that what they teach in Straya Schools


And if you want me to make myself look foolish in relation to any of the other signs, I'll need better screenshots of them.
This is a good point, I think, to mention one of the pitfalls of playing an old game - such a screenshot, as far as I'm aware, doesn't exist; these pictures are the highest definition you will ever get from FF7 short of Square finally doing a Remaster, which they don't seem very likely to. Sometimes this makes details of the world frustrating to read, because as lovingly crafted as each background is, you can't zoom in - what you see is what you get. And what you see here, is a lot of barely-readable signs.

It's been several decades from the end of FFVII. After the dismantling of the Mako infrastructure, civilization returned to the natural source of energy: oil.

The Planet is dying. Again.

Yuffie is a grizzled woman who has one of her eyes replaced with the Steal Materia. She leads an eco-terrorist group Avalanche (named such after an organization she's heard about once. She isn't clear on details because she didn't pay attention at the time) in a fight against an evil oil baron.

That is, until the oil baron is killed by a mysterious swordsman with an unnaturally huge sword, a swordsman who seems to have a connection to Yuffie and loves bullying her.

The oil baron is replaced by his eviler daughter, and the hunt for the swordsman is on.
...I'm going to make a once-in-a-lifetime exception to my "no sequels where all the victorious characters of the original have become sad fuckups/antagonists" for this one idea, please fund it immediately

Personally I interpret 亀道楽 by splitting up the three kanji, so it's "Turtle Path Comfort", ie "Paradise of the Way of the Turtle". There is always the possibility that it's an intentional play on words between 道楽 and 道、楽, turning it into both "Paradise of the Way of the Turtle" and "Turtle's Pastime".

As for のみ処, it's more straightforwardly のみ and 処: "nomi" for "drinks" and "tokoro" for "place". As in "place for drinks".



To elaborate, Japan trying to emulate China is historically so accurate that it's difficult to overstate how much Japan tried to be China, in aesthetics and culture. China's government structure (even in the midst of its civil wars) and general societal cultures were seen as the end-solution to "how to government" by Japan, or rather the Imperial Court that claimed sovereignty over Japan. This became especially pronounced during the Tang Dynasty in China, which the Nara period of Japanese history copied down to the architecture. It took until the Heian period (starting at around the 9th century AD) where the Japanese Imperial Court went "okay, we're too much like China".

Incidentally, the Heian period is when the Imperial Capital was moved to the city then known as Heian-kyo, and today known as Kyoto. It also happened to be when samurai became a thing, which is why stories set during the "let's copy China" eras of Japanese history don't have them.

This apparent division between "Japan Imperial Court interchangeable with China Imperial Court" and "Culturally Japan" turns up in a lot of present-day Japanese pop culture and media; it's about as well-explored as the cultural changes during the Meiji Restoration, and I would say more common in media than the cultural changes post-WW2.

So personally, my own interpretation of "Modern Cyberpunk Midgar won a war against Traditional Ancient Wutai" is less about "the Allied Powers taking over Japan after World War 2", and more a generalized "modernity charging ahead vs safe traditions". In other words, Midgar isn't "the West"; it's Tokyo, winning the cultural competition against "traditional" (or "backwards", derogatively) areas like Nara.

EDIT:

On re-reading, I want to point out this screenshot in particular:



This is the Materia store. We can tell, because the sign says "Materia".

It says "Materia" in the most ridiculous way possible. 魔手理亜, which is how the sign reads right-to-left and with more olden writing, literally reads as "Ma Te Li A", and means nothing as a kanji combination. They just use the kanji sounds to say "Materia". (The first kanji is a little blurry, so it could be 麻 or such instead, but it doesn't matter, because the kanji pronunciation is all that matters, not the meaning.)

It's along the lines of a store using "Ye Olde Shoppe", with that spelling, and not even bothering to use the proper thorn symbol for "Ye". The overall impression is extremely kitsch, whether because the owner is trying too hard to be over-pretentious, or it's a tourist trap intentionally designed to be kitsch and tacky and "old-timey".

Perhaps related distantly, Japanese media stereotypes of the "biker gang" small-time gangsters like to use kanji like this too: they want to express a word that's more normally written in katakana loanword, but they want to be Traditional and Japanese and Manly, so they just mash together a bunch of kanji with the right pronunciations. Because they want to show off that they know these kanji, but are not actually well-read enough to come up with proper phrases that mean something in kanji.
Thank you for this post, this was very instructive!

A thought I had: we know there are/were more Nibelheimers in Midgar then Cloud and Tifa. They wrote letters home and everything. So, when Nibelheim burned, did they just suddenly stop receiving letters? A letter saying "To whom it may concern, your loved one has decided to no longer remain in contact with you and does not want you to question why."? Hell, when Tifa got to Midgar, did she track them down and tell them their home got torched?

Questions for later, maybe.
Hmm.

My guess is that the Nibelheim youths who went to the city simply didn't realize anything was wrong for a long time, because they weren't receiving letters from home anyway. They were sending them, sure, but they had no stable job or stable address, meaning they couldn't easily receive mail. So they may have spent a long time just sending letters home and not minding that they didn't hear anything back...

They must have found out eventually, though. Who knows what happened then?[/QUOTE]
 
My guess is that the Nibelheim youths who went to the city simply didn't realize anything was wrong for a long time, because they weren't receiving letters from home anyway. They were sending them, sure, but they had no stable job or stable address, meaning they couldn't easily receive mail. So they may have spent a long time just sending letters home and not minding that they didn't hear anything back...

They must have found out eventually, though. Who knows what happened then?
I feel like the number of tattooed people with numbers that we've seen so far doesn't imply good things.
 
I-

What the hell, how did you just have Dismas and Gestas's names off the top of your head, I had to google them because I'd never heard those names in my life, is that what they teach in Straya Schools

Omi, I don't know how to tell you this, but so did I.

(Well, that is to say I knew who Saint Dismas was because of Uncharted 4, and Shadow of the Tomb Raider has a puzzle about the stations of the cross too, so I'd been exposed beforehand I just needed to google the other thief's name)
 
Of course, we explore the entirety of FFVI's setting and we never find another place for Cyan to have been from, so I guess it's not meant to be canon, but I'd almost forgotten that it was something I brought in and not how it's presented in the game as it exists.
Didn't we totally establish that Cyan is secretly an Isekai protag who already had his adventures before the game started? At least, I think there was a joke like that somewhere in the FFVI LP for how this old samurai man ended up in some castle kingdom.
 
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