[L5R] Minor Clan Quest
- Thread starter storybookknight
- Start date
Social Mass Combat. Only in L5R.
No vote because I have no idea how any of this works, I just had to point it out.
No vote because I have no idea how any of this works, I just had to point it out.
- Location
- Connecticut
- Pronouns
- He/Him
OK, so here's how traditional mass battle goes.
Step 1: The two generals of the opposing forces roll Battle/Perception to determine who has superior control over the flow of battle. Typically, this will be out of your control.
Step 2: You yourself roll to see how well you perform in the battle. This is then modified by the flow of battle so that you can look up on a big table to see how much Glory you gain (more likely the more heavily you are engaged and the better you are at battle), how much damage you take (more likely the more heavily you are engaged and the worse you are at battle), and whether you get the chance to personally contribute in a meaningful way (more likely the more heavily engaged you are, also more likely if your side is losing).
Step 3: If you personally get to contribute meaningfully then that circumstance is resolved. Personal contributions can be anything from a duel with an enemy soldier to finding yourself with a clear shot at the enemy general to... a whole bunch of things. If you succeed, you have a chance of shifting the flow of battle. If you fail, then it either has no effect, you take damage, or possibly your side starts doing even worse.
Step 4: Determine your level of engagement for the next round and try again.
With the social battle, we will be doing basically the exact same thing except with Etiquette/Willpower instead of Battle/Perception.
Does that make sense?
Hmm so we'd be rolling 8k4, 9k5 if we voided.
Which isn't a bad roll, and in terms of willpower, we're probably about equal with the bushi courtier, but not the true courtiers.
There's something to be said for waiting and striking when the moment is right. But I think it's a mistake, to demure like that. Its what is expect of us, we are after all a minor clan, and the sensible, sane plan is for us to wait, bide our time and then strike. Doji Ran no doubt has reasoned out that we are part of the alliance that is working against her and her coalition. In terms of threats, the Crab are going to be dismissed as a non issue, the day the Crab defeats a Crane in court is the day she falls on her sword. Not that she won't have a plan to deal with them, but she isn't going to focus on them until the coalition breaks and they have no allies to rely on.
Which brings things back to us. The Scorpion and the Crab as a rule do not get along, the obvious reason for them managing it, is well us. Ergo, removing us is the first step to breaking the coalition.
From Ran's perspective no minor clan however favoured by the Emperor is going to be so insane as to make the first strike in court. Rather they'll wait and leverage their ability at the moment when the time is right. So to break the coalition and win this social battle, taking us out makes a lot of sense. If we give Ran the initiative, she'll use it to hammer us and we'll never get it back.
So to my mind it's time to take a page out of Yoritomo's book and stun the world with our audacity.
[x] Heavily Engaged
[x] Strike at the Crane.
Which isn't a bad roll, and in terms of willpower, we're probably about equal with the bushi courtier, but not the true courtiers.
There's something to be said for waiting and striking when the moment is right. But I think it's a mistake, to demure like that. Its what is expect of us, we are after all a minor clan, and the sensible, sane plan is for us to wait, bide our time and then strike. Doji Ran no doubt has reasoned out that we are part of the alliance that is working against her and her coalition. In terms of threats, the Crab are going to be dismissed as a non issue, the day the Crab defeats a Crane in court is the day she falls on her sword. Not that she won't have a plan to deal with them, but she isn't going to focus on them until the coalition breaks and they have no allies to rely on.
Which brings things back to us. The Scorpion and the Crab as a rule do not get along, the obvious reason for them managing it, is well us. Ergo, removing us is the first step to breaking the coalition.
From Ran's perspective no minor clan however favoured by the Emperor is going to be so insane as to make the first strike in court. Rather they'll wait and leverage their ability at the moment when the time is right. So to break the coalition and win this social battle, taking us out makes a lot of sense. If we give Ran the initiative, she'll use it to hammer us and we'll never get it back.
So to my mind it's time to take a page out of Yoritomo's book and stun the world with our audacity.
[x] Heavily Engaged
[x] Strike at the Crane.
- Location
- Moon-Station
Can we get a setup what "forces" we have, what forces the alliance has and who is unknown/neutral? It has been awhile, sorry.
I'm sure someone has done it in Exalted.
In any case, I was debating between two options, but since one of them is already starting the bandwagon, I'll vote the other just to throw another possible option out there:
[X] Disengaged - A few coughs here, a quiet whisper there; you'll start by keeping a low profile, ready to jump in with surprise.
[X] Attempt to bait the Matsu. You believe that you have set the idea into Matsu Masakawa's mind, but how to get him to implement it...
The argument for this: the enemy knows we are on the Crab's side, and will have taken that into account in their plans for dealing with the Crab. So supporting the Crab is striking where the enemy expects and is ready for us. They also aren't dumb, and they've probably noticed our side working on the Dragon. What the enemy hopefully doesn't know is that we've prepped the Matsu, since that was a fairly low key and innocuous interaction. So if we can start subtly nudging that domino, the Crane might not even realize what we're doing until it is too late.
The argument against: subtle nudging in a disengaged stance may not move the Matsu appreciably, and if the Crab collapse all the maneuvering we and the Scorpion might do around the edges won't matter. (But if the Crab can't defend themselves for one round, we're doomed anyway, so...)
- Location
- Leeds
Did you really adapt the mass combat rules for debating?
They're awful at what they're designed for, what makes you think they'll be better like this.
Anyway, how many rounds are we expecting this to take before we guage engagement.
They're awful at what they're designed for, what makes you think they'll be better like this.
Anyway, how many rounds are we expecting this to take before we guage engagement.
[X] Engaged
[X] Attempt to bait the Matsu. You believe that you have set the idea into Matsu Masakawa's mind, but how to get him to implement it...
We have social armor, so I say we use it. I don't think we should directly confront the Crane though, because they are experts at this sort of thing. Going after the Lion or the Dragon is more useful. I'm willing to switch my vote to Dragon if things start leaning that way. Heck, they may be the smarter choice because they seem less likely to be good at court stuff than the Lion, although I could be wrong. I think going with the Lion is better though because infighting would probably sink this entire thing.
[X] Attempt to bait the Matsu. You believe that you have set the idea into Matsu Masakawa's mind, but how to get him to implement it...
We have social armor, so I say we use it. I don't think we should directly confront the Crane though, because they are experts at this sort of thing. Going after the Lion or the Dragon is more useful. I'm willing to switch my vote to Dragon if things start leaning that way. Heck, they may be the smarter choice because they seem less likely to be good at court stuff than the Lion, although I could be wrong. I think going with the Lion is better though because infighting would probably sink this entire thing.
Sirrocco
Pedantic
[X] Engaged
[X] Attempt to bait the Matsu. You believe that you have set the idea into Matsu Masakawa's mind, but how to get him to implement it...
I agree on the "you have Armor, so use it" part of the plan - we can drop back to Disengaged if we start taking a few too many wounds. In the meantime, though, baiting the Matsu seems like the sort of thing that we have an opening for, and no one else does. The Crane are *also* a place where we can make contributions that no one else can, but I don't think we're at that level.
[X] Attempt to bait the Matsu. You believe that you have set the idea into Matsu Masakawa's mind, but how to get him to implement it...
I agree on the "you have Armor, so use it" part of the plan - we can drop back to Disengaged if we start taking a few too many wounds. In the meantime, though, baiting the Matsu seems like the sort of thing that we have an opening for, and no one else does. The Crane are *also* a place where we can make contributions that no one else can, but I don't think we're at that level.
I make no statement as to how accurately this is going to simulate... much of anything, really. I expect, though, that it will make for an entertaining minigame, at least for this once.
Chimeraguard
We do deserve to exist.
[X] Engaged
[X] Attempt to bait the Matsu. You believe that you have set the idea into Matsu Masakawa's mind, but how to get him to implement it...
[X] Attempt to bait the Matsu. You believe that you have set the idea into Matsu Masakawa's mind, but how to get him to implement it...
[X] Engaged
[X] Attempt to bait the Matsu. You believe that you have set the idea into Matsu Masakawa's mind, but how to get him to implement it...
If this works, one or the more influential parts of their alliance is working at cross purposes to them.
[X] Attempt to bait the Matsu. You believe that you have set the idea into Matsu Masakawa's mind, but how to get him to implement it...
If this works, one or the more influential parts of their alliance is working at cross purposes to them.
- Location
- Third planet from the star named Sol
- Pronouns
- He/They
It would be great if it worked, but refuge in audacity does not guarantee victory, or even make it likely. Fact is, with both Lion and Dragon there to back them up, attacking Crane head on right from the start is too likely to get us discredited, which will serve to break the alliance even faster. What we need to do is chip off one of the supporters. By doing that, we damage the credibility of their allies while still coming from an unexpected, unplanned for angle. Strike for the weak-points first, break the armor, and then go for the jugular that is the Crane.
[X] Engaged
[X] Attempt to bait the Matsu. You believe that you have set the idea into Matsu Masakawa's mind, but how to get him to implement it...
Wade Garrett
Just trying to do the right thing
- Pronouns
- He/His/Him
[X] Engaged
[X] Attempt to bait the Matsu. You believe that you have set the idea into Matsu Masakawa's mind, but how to get him to implement it...
[X] Attempt to bait the Matsu. You believe that you have set the idea into Matsu Masakawa's mind, but how to get him to implement it...
[X] Engaged
[X] Attempt to bait the Matsu. You believe that you have set the idea into Matsu Masakawa's mind, but how to get him to implement it...
[X] Attempt to bait the Matsu. You believe that you have set the idea into Matsu Masakawa's mind, but how to get him to implement it...
[X] Reserves - Best to watch and wait, to begin with; perhaps you won't be needed at all.
[X] Focus on buttressing the Crab. A simple voice of support will grant their words more weight.
Leave the opening rounds to others. People are thinking what our meeting with the Emperor means, so chipping in later on can have weight that the Crane are not ready to counter for. If we act immediately they'd be able to start marginalizing us early on. Let them wonder if the Emperor told us to withhold our support, or what other plans.
When we bait the Matsu in the second round heavily, they won't see it coming.
[X] Focus on buttressing the Crab. A simple voice of support will grant their words more weight.
Leave the opening rounds to others. People are thinking what our meeting with the Emperor means, so chipping in later on can have weight that the Crane are not ready to counter for. If we act immediately they'd be able to start marginalizing us early on. Let them wonder if the Emperor told us to withhold our support, or what other plans.
When we bait the Matsu in the second round heavily, they won't see it coming.
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[X] Reserves - Best to watch and wait, to begin with; perhaps you won't be needed at all.
[X] Focus on buttressing the Crab. A simple voice of support will grant their words more weight.
[X] Focus on buttressing the Crab. A simple voice of support will grant their words more weight.
[X] Reserves - Best to watch and wait, to begin with; perhaps you won't be needed at all.
[X] Focus on buttressing the Crab. A simple voice of support will grant their words more weight.
Great to see this quest back.
[X] Focus on buttressing the Crab. A simple voice of support will grant their words more weight.
Great to see this quest back.
- Location
- Third planet from the star named Sol
- Pronouns
- He/They
They won't see it coming if we do it now. It'll still have the same weight though as everyone will believe that we are acting with the Emperor's will. We would also seize the initiative by acting first, something they would not expect.
- Location
- Connecticut
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Sure thing!
Your forces:
The Crab - unified, prepared, and on familiar ground. Sadly, this isn't their preferred type of battle. Specialize in matters of trade, a fact which is unlikely to crop up in this particular debate.
The Otomo - powerful courtiers, but defending the Emperor's sovereignty more than they are defending the Crab's traditions. Specialize in causing havoc between the Great Clans - expect them to try to pull neutral Clans into the fight against the Crane Alliance.
The Scorpion - not particularly ardent allies of the Crab, but obeying their Emperor's command. Specialize in dirty tricks, subterfuge, and scandal.
Your opposition:
The Crane - The disputed rulers of Rokugan's courts. United behind their leadership, though the Daidoji don't appear particularly happy about that fact. Specialize in coalition building and having lots of allies.
The Lion - The most powerful military force in Rokugan. Currently a house divided, with the Shimizu rebelling against the Akodo, the Kitsu lacking confidence in the Alliance, and the Matsu looking to find an excuse to turn on the Crane. Unfortunately the Ikoma, their courtier house, is still firmly in favor. Specialize in matters of historical precedent and storytelling.
The Dragon - Nominally ruled by the Togashi, the Dragon is currently following the lead of the Mirumoto, who have a serious grudge against the Crab - particularly the Yasuki. However, the remainder of the families of the Dragon are less negatively inclined, and may or may not be putting pressure on the Mirumoto to change their course. Their few courtiers specialize in investigation.
Neutral parties:
The Phoenix - Have an alliance with the Dragon, but are currently on the outs with the Crane due to a rivalry between the Master of Air and the Asahina Daimyo. Their courtiers specialize in lore and knowledge.
The Unicorn - Led by a practical and somewhat enigmatic woman - it's hard to say which direction they will take. Their courtiers specialize in etiquette and keeping the peace.
The Minor Clans - Have a weak alliance with you, but are currently at odds with the Crab and are likely nervous about incurring the wrath of the Crane. Their courtiers have a mix of eclectic techniques.
Can I get a quick vote count?
Well...
These guys would be tricky to manage.
Sirrocco
Pedantic
So... I gotta say, I don't grasp your logic here. Perhaps you could explain further?
- How does holding on our response make the Crane *less* able to counter us? The Crane don't know that we're prepped against this assault to begin with. Carefully metering out the surprises only means that they have time to recover between each one. If we hit them all at once with the ambush, they won't, say, be able to respond to the Otomo pulling in the Phoenix AND the Crab defense against their main thrust AND our trying to pull out the Lion all at once.
- When we act, they'll be able to start marginalizing us. Sure. That's a cost of action. I don't see how this means that we want to push that action later. How does your argument support your conclusion? Sure, if they manage to undercut us completely, then we can't achieve anything at the end... but if we don't do anything in the opening rounds, then we can't achieve anything in the beginning.
- When we bait the Matsu, they either will or won't see it coming. What time we choose to do that has little to no effect on that.
