Omegahugger
Inattentive Idiot
Also because Carstein is directly derived from Karnstein, Carmilla's last name.
Which is a bit weird because I'm pretty sure the Lahmian's are supposed to be the Carmilla expies.
It Belongs to a Museum
- Thread starter Boney
- Start date
- Fantasy
Which is a bit weird because I'm pretty sure the Lahmian's are supposed to be the Carmilla expies.
- Location
- The North
- Pronouns
- She/Her/It/Its
Might have decided on the name before the Lahmian's were developed. Writers leave a bunch of artefacts like that, especially when it comes to lore.
- Pronouns
- She/Her
no the von Carstein's and the Lahmians are roughly contemporious in their creation.
Sir_Travelsalot
Never wakes up tired.
- Location
- At Home
This kinda switcheroo with name references for the vampires seems to happen a fair amount, like with Wallach Harkon being a Blood Dragon instead of a von Carstein, even though the latter derive their aesthetics the most out of fairytales made of the ruler of Wallachia.
And given there's never been any mention of him coming from or going to Albion, it's not likely the name is him calling himself a Welshman.
- Location
- The North
- Pronouns
- She/Her/It/Its
They were contemporaries only from our point of view, Speaking as a writer myself, it's quite possible that the name of von Carstein was decided, as a reference to Carmilla (just as a famous vampire rather than anything else probably), then they went on to write other things until they had an idea for a Carmilla inspired vampire bloodline and just never changed the original name.
- Location
- The Netherlands
okay so i am making a new plan becouse the leading one has an issue for me.
[X] Plan: Battle Diorama Prep
-[X] Acquire Relic: Lizardmen Bodies/Skeletons - Awakening
- [X] Acquire Relic (Lizardmen Weapons and Armour - Awakening)
-[X] Acquire Relic (Suitable Preserved Corpses + Clothing & Deathmasks to represent Harkon and his initial crew - Awakening)
there a proper battle diorama setup
[X] Plan: Battle Diorama Prep
-[X] Acquire Relic: Lizardmen Bodies/Skeletons - Awakening
- [X] Acquire Relic (Lizardmen Weapons and Armour - Awakening)
-[X] Acquire Relic (Suitable Preserved Corpses + Clothing & Deathmasks to represent Harkon and his initial crew - Awakening)
there a proper battle diorama setup
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One note... Boney's already clarified that grabbing Lizardman bodies and skeletons isn't going to get their military equipment, which means that the fierce Lizardman warriors in our diorama of a battle are going to be... Unarmed.
This is why I'm advocating we get the weapons and armour first - grabbing Lizardman armaments means that we can present the Lizardmen as warriors immediately if we wish to, which we can't do nearly as easily with their corpses. Don't get me wrong, I also love the goal of sorting out a (hopefully animated) battle diorama, but I think it's either going to have to be prioritised above everything else or needs to be a multi-turn aim.
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- Location
- The Netherlands
in that case i'm swapping castle for weapons, still different from the other plans either way
I like a lizard as much as anyone, but I think trying to shoehorn the Lizardmen into this first exhibit is stretching it. Our centerpiece is the reconstructed Norscan boat Haakon used as a pirate; this boat was never fighting Lizardmen. If we'd gone for any kind of land warfare focus, I'd feel differently, but this is a naval-first exhibit.
From the description we got the castle is of Norscan design, so I think it's safe to say the castle as a relic will have similar tags to Niflhundr (History/Vampire/Norsca) which synergizes well. Any Lizardman stuff would fall under Lustria, and our current centerpiece just isn't suited for a Lustria exhibit.
Though that said, the only way we get new centerpieces is acquisitions, so for that purpose the acquire relics plan is preferable over the investigate Luthor's history one. I'm not sure if corpses can produce a centerpiece, though I suppose if we luck into some Lizardman hero Luthor slew that could work out.
From the description we got the castle is of Norscan design, so I think it's safe to say the castle as a relic will have similar tags to Niflhundr (History/Vampire/Norsca) which synergizes well. Any Lizardman stuff would fall under Lustria, and our current centerpiece just isn't suited for a Lustria exhibit.
Though that said, the only way we get new centerpieces is acquisitions, so for that purpose the acquire relics plan is preferable over the investigate Luthor's history one. I'm not sure if corpses can produce a centerpiece, though I suppose if we luck into some Lizardman hero Luthor slew that could work out.
Night_stalker
Slava Ukraini!
- Pronouns
- He/Him
[X] Plan: Castle Diorama Prep
- Location
- The North
- Pronouns
- She/Her/It/Its
I believe the current idea is a progression of history. First Harkon had this ship, then he fought these beasts (the skeletons) and then he faced the lizardmen. The ship functions more as an introduction and representative of Harkon in such a hypothetical exhibit.
[X] Plan: The Harkonnian Institute
[X] Plan: Castle Diorama Prep
[X] Plan: Castle Diorama Prep
Plus, of course, there had to be a landing in Lustria at some point, right? Harkon spent much of his life as the captain of a harbour guard and then aboard a ship, and in his unlife gathered his undead forces from passing ships that he wrecked on his isle. Those ships got him and his undead armies from his island to the mainland of Lustria in the first place and thus his flagship could, in a very real sense, be said to be symbolic of the beginning of the campaign.
(Is that a stretch? Eh, I'm sure that Fjolnir can spin it.)
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- Location
- The North
- Pronouns
- She/Her/It/Its
It may not have been the first ship in his fleet to anchor on the mainland, but Harkon went there at some point, and I can't see why he wouldn't use his flagship for it. It's actually not that unlikely it was one of the first there.
- Location
- Canada
I continue to insist that trying to grab all the things personally is a mistake. We've got someone who specializes in that. If you want skeletons, ask the Princess. If you want items used by Lizardmen, ask the Princess. Sure, when we open a booster pack of skeletons, we might not get the exact skeleton you want. On the other hand, trying to grab a specific skeleton ourselves may not even work, so we're better off ordering in bulk and seeing what we can make out of whatever we can get. Same deal for equipment; Lizardman weapons and armor are a subcategory of Lizardman Relics. The way I see it, Lizardman weapons and armor are the boring commons in the Lizardman Relics booster pack, so I expect that we'll be swimming in them eventually if we keep looking for Relics; no need to seek them out ourselves in an artisanal way.
This sort of issue is the exact reason why my plan includes multiple acquisitions through the Princess, but it seems that most people are in love with specific artisanal picks instead of bulk ordering.
I think that the key word here is 'eventually'. We can absolutely keep tapping Princess Fallenstar for Lizardman relics in the hopes of getting weapons and armour, and getting our hands on some Lizardman military equipment from there is likely if we have an unlimited amount of time, but keep in mind that those relics are being recovered from a buried Temple-City. That makes it good as a source of representations of 'generic loot'; for armaments specifically, though, we'd be relying on a miner breaking into a weapon-crafter's workshop or armoury (and then managing to smuggle some of the contents out, which might be tricky for objects that large, unwieldy and distinctive). Sure, it's going to happen at some point, but we don't know how long we'll have to wait until we get the right booster pack and in the meantime Luthor Harkon will be tapping his foot in the background waiting for an exhibit that we could have already assembled. By contrast, I'd say that personal acquisition is fairly reliable in the case of military equipment; there's bound to be plenty of it kept as trophies in Awakening itself and, if that's somehow not enough, there'll be people there who know of old battle sites where such items can be recovered (albeit with greater difficulty).
(If that convinces you, I would note that Plan MMM only has that as the one personal acquisition option and leans on the Princess for the other two, so it should be more reliable than most of the popular plans in that regard; would be delighted to welcome you aboard if you'd be amenable!)
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[X] Plan: The Harkonnian Institute
Because i like the sound of investigating Lutr's adventures
Because i like the sound of investigating Lutr's adventures
- Location
- Canada
I do like MMM's double Princess acquisition, but weapons and armor seem like a bad use of the personal acquisition. Just about anything we get from a Relic pull ought to be useful for some kind of exhibit, so I don't see a good reason to go that route as opposed to going for bulk.
On the other hand, the castle option in the first and second leading plans strikes me as an unusually good use of a personal acquisition; I'm just less impressed by the way both of those plans do personal acquisitions twice. If there was a compromise plan that did double contact acquisition and also grabbed the castle, or maybe swapped in Investigate for one of those actions, I'd be all for it. Something like:
[X] Plan: Optimized Castle Prep
-[X] Acquire Relics via Princess Aelsabrim Fallenstar (x2)
--[X] Skeletons
--[X] Relics
-[X] Acquire Relic (Castle - Fire Serpent Island)
or
[X] Plan: Optimized Harkonnian Institute
-[X] Acquire Relic (Castle - Fire Serpent Island)
-[X] Acquire Relics via Princess Aelsabrim Fallenstar
--[X] Relics
-[X] Investigate (Luthor Harkon's many adventures)
EDIT: Also, adding this one in as an approval vote, despite the way it includes two personal acquisitions, simply because it hits the mark a lot better than the other plans seem to.
[X] Plan: Pirate Flags and Castle
-[X] Acquire Relic (Castle - Fire Serpent Island)
-[X] Acquire Relic (Pirate Flags of the Vampire Coast)
-[X] Skeleton (rare)
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Fair enough! For clarity, the reason for going in that direction is the plan's intent to be ready to create an exhibit on Turn 2 in case people want to go in that direction. The potential exhibit would be focused on Harkon's Lustrian conquests; weapons and armour are an integral part of that story, neatly symbolising the Lizardmen's martial might. I can understand leaning into the strict efficiency of grabbing as much as possible, though, in the expectation that the variety of items acquired will mean that we can construct a cohesive narrative from at least some of it by the end!
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You know what would be the perfect accompaniment to the pirate ship? Pirate flags. Collect examples of the most famous/notorious/successful pirate crews and display them from Harkon's ship (with Harkon's flag on top, of course).
If we combine it with the fort, then we basically have an exhibit on the founding and legacy of the Undead Admiralty, which is more or less the government of the Vampire Coast. We'd basically be emphasizing the foundational myth of the nation, cementing it as an actual nation in the minds of the people.
[X] Plan: Pirate Flags and Castle
-[X] Acquire Relic (Castle - Fire Serpent Island)
-[X] Acquire Relic (Pirate Flags of the Vampire Coast)
-[X] Skeleton (rare)
The Skeleton vote is to try to fish for a centrepiece for the beast skeletons we have at the moment, so that we can try to build two exhibits next turn.
If we combine it with the fort, then we basically have an exhibit on the founding and legacy of the Undead Admiralty, which is more or less the government of the Vampire Coast. We'd basically be emphasizing the foundational myth of the nation, cementing it as an actual nation in the minds of the people.
[X] Plan: Pirate Flags and Castle
-[X] Acquire Relic (Castle - Fire Serpent Island)
-[X] Acquire Relic (Pirate Flags of the Vampire Coast)
-[X] Skeleton (rare)
The Skeleton vote is to try to fish for a centrepiece for the beast skeletons we have at the moment, so that we can try to build two exhibits next turn.
- Location
- Washington
"Lizardmen skeletons that are displayed riding dinosaur skeletons" may strictly speaking be unarmed but I don't think they're going to FEEL that way.
Intimidating, perhaps, but it would nonetheless be a conspicuous absence for a depiction of Lizardmen war beast riders in combat to be without weapons!
(Wonder what the technical term would be. Camelry is to camels, elephantry is to elephants... 'Bastilodonry'? 'Stegadonry'? 'Terradonry'? Schema doesn't work as well for Cold Ones, though.)
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Sinsystems
Patron Librarian
I think having Lizardmen skeletons would help in a sense of "this is the species that Luthor fought" sort of thing. Like remember that some documents in the old world portray a malnourished skink as a Saurus warrior. Not sure on the source of that though.