F0lkL0re
Officially not an Inquisitor
- Location
- Shetland
Yeah the religious dogmatism came after the Heresy the unthinking obedience on the other hand has been there from the start.
In The Grim Darkness Of The 41st Millennium, Nobody Beats G.I. Joe!
- Thread starter sun tzu
- Start date
- Crossover
jwolfe_beta
Semi Genre-Savvy Overlord
- Location
- Canada
Actually that was starting to occur even before he got stuck on the throne. And only part of it was Logar's fault.
That's circular. If both answers are right, then an action is good because the Emperor commands it, and he commands it because it's good, and it's good because the Emperor commands it.
- Location
- The City of Tears, Hallownest
- Pronouns
- He/Him
If the emperor/god would not act in arbitrary/evil ways because of his nature, then arbitrary/evil is defined outside of "what this being wants", because if they weren't, they wouldn't be arbitrary/evil, they'd just be "things the being doesn't want". Sacrificing Isaac can't be a test if he doesn't order things that are bad, because he ordered a "bad thing" as part of a test.
darkstarling
Brilliantly Crazed
- Location
- Columbus, Ohio
- Pronouns
- He/Him
The test was (presumably) a good thing, the order was never intended to be followed.
You mean Big E's fault. He claims He ain't a God and no religion will be tolerated in the Imperium... Yet He wears golden armor with glowing aura, wields a flaming sword and phenomenal psychic powers, and calls his conquest of the galaxy as the "Great Crusade".
And one of His Primarchs, Sanguinius is a literal Angel with fabulous wings. There's no way the irradiated environment of Planet Baal had mutated him to grow those.
StarSingerBlue
Zenryoku Zenkai !
- Location
- The City of Lights
- Pronouns
- They/Them
THE WOMAN, THE LEGEND, THE OG GIRLPRINCE IS HERE !!! GIVE IT UP FOR LADY OSCAR !
Also Gavpierre is an obvious reference to Gavroche if I ever saw one. Let's hope that he meets a happier ending.
Those two references considered, I'm pretty sure we're going to start kicking off a pseudo-French revolution in relatively short order.
I'm also wondering what Raoul's deal is. Based off ASOIAF stuff he has Rhaegar, but Rhaegar had siblings and he doesn't.
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- Location
- The City of Tears, Hallownest
- Pronouns
- He/Him
An aesthetic argument on how "divine" big E looks is the worst possible argument for how his actions spread worship and fanaticism
darkstarling
Brilliantly Crazed
- Location
- Columbus, Ohio
- Pronouns
- He/Him
But it does epitomize it. He acts like a god, and he wants to be treated as a god, and gives himself the iconography of a god, then gets all offended when people do.
- Location
- The City of Tears, Hallownest
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Firstly, No. He acts like a Tyrant, wants to be treated like a Father/King, and there is no such thing as "Iconography of a god" That's just silly. Every culture in the world has had a different conception of how a god would behave. Dude presented himself as a big important ruler and did a bunch of really stupid shit. That doesn't have anything to do with people treating him as a god, it doesn't Epitomize anything.
FunkyEntropy
Occasionally insightful, possibly grumpy
- Location
- Los Angeles
Pre heresy the Imperium is a fascist personality cult based around the Emperor.
Post heresy the Imperium is a fascist religious cult based around the Emperor.
As you can plainly see, they are completely different
Post heresy the Imperium is a fascist religious cult based around the Emperor.
As you can plainly see, they are completely different
ExNihilo
SPACE!
- Location
- USA
- Pronouns
- He/Him
In hindsight it's obvious, but when we first met Bleu-Blanc-Rouge, I pegged it as merely 'French' but of course a name like that, instead of Fleur-de-Lys or Roland or something, implies that he's at least vaguely Republican. Not that that's surprising for GI Joe, of course, but I hadn't considered all the implications of the name.
darkstarling
Brilliantly Crazed
- Location
- Columbus, Ohio
- Pronouns
- He/Him
I forgot - you can also say that certain concepts are logical consequences. Like, good may TECHNICALLY be defined by the being in question. But could a morally perfect being create or exist in a moral order that was logical inconsistent?
Basically it's a different way of stating Weak vs Strong omnipotence. The former is basically 'God sets the rules but has to follow his own rules (unless he changes them)' while the latter is 'God can make a sandwich so big even he couldn't eat it. And then he would eat it anyway.'
Ha, I actually remember reading that, back in the age of Long Ago.
With that said...
Socrates quotes:
"The only true wisdom is in knowing you know nothing."
"The unexamined life is not worth living."
"I cannot teach anybody anything. I can only make them think"
"There is only one good, knowledge, and one evil, ignorance."
"Be kind, for everyone you meet is fighting a hard battle."
"To find yourself, think for yourself."
"Education is the kindling of a flame, not the filling of a vessel."
Schola Progenium quotes (actually the "Thoughts For The Day" you sometimes find in WH40K stuff):
"A logical argument must be dismissed with absolute conviction!"
"A questioning mind betrays a treacherous soul."
"A questioning servant is more dangerous than an ignorant heretic."
"A small mind is easily filled with faith."
"An open mind is like a fortress with its gate unbarred and unguarded."
"Blessed is the mind too small for doubt."
"Facts are chains that bind perception and fetter truth. For a man can remake the world if he has a dream and no facts to cloud his mind."
"Forgiveness is a sign of weakness."
"Ignorance is your best defence."
"Innocence proves nothing"
"Intellect is a mask for traitors"
"Intolerance is a blessing"
"Negotiation is surrender"
"The Emperor bestows upon us the gift of intolerance."
Yyyyeah, I think "they don't teach Socrates at the Schola Progenium" is something that goes without saying. The Schola Progenium is designed to indoctrinate fanatics (preferably competent fanatics, but given the choice, the Schola will choose fanaticism over competence, always).
I would argue it started while he was still very much in control.
I mean. I hate it when smartasses try to argue "atheism is just another religion" (it's really, really not). But given the cult of personality the Emperor had going, the quasi-religious iconography he used, and how he handled the Imperial Truth... Well.
In a way, it's handy that Judaism doesn't necessarily assume omnibenevolence on God's part. A deity that makes mistakes is far more theologically convenient!
I used to catch every other episode of Lady Oscar/The Rose Of Versailles as a kid. Seemed wrong not to use her. XD
And yeah, I barely bothered filing the serial numbers off Gavroche.
With that said - it doesn't take a genius at political science to tell that starting a revolution on Devoir, as things stand, would be a Bad Idea. Even if you completely eliminated the Tyranids and Genestealer cults beforehand, and even if you could ensure that the revolution wasn't put down using Plan Aurora, that still leaves issues like "two thousand Knights controlled by the nobility", "no significant educated citizenry to handle governance after the revolution", "Imperial Guard could trivially slaughter entire population without even bringing any reinforcement", and so on.
The very first incarnation of the character, way back when, was as an alt in City Of Heroes, and he was basically a French take on Steve Rogers.
Bleu-Blanc-Rouge is very firmly of the opinion that
Evil M. Lurker
What Lurks at Midnight
- Location
- The City, USA
Given the fic's context and l/I confusion, for just a moment I was wondering what philosophy would arise in the Autobot capital city.
Stolen from The Tick's Professor Chromedome:
Mindbender, screaming at the TV: "Mullaney, you oily little sellout! Wannabes, all of you! Spit-shining your prosthetic limbs and whitewashing your liver spots for this wretched, back-patting smarty-party!"
Cobra Commander: "I take it you won't be attending."
Mindbender: "The true mad scientist does not make public appearances! He does not wear the 'Hello My Name Is' badge! He strikes from below, like a Sub-Viper! Or on high like a penny dropped from the tallest building around! He has only the one purpose! Do bad things to good people... WITH SCIENCE!"
--
Mindbender: "You're all a bunch of hippies, what with your 'loafer walking' and your touchy-feeliness! What good is science if no one gets HURT?!?!"
"That's us, dude!" - Bill and Ted's Excellent Adventure
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- Location
- Detroit, Michigan
This section felt like it really came from the heart.
darkstarling
Brilliantly Crazed
- Location
- Columbus, Ohio
- Pronouns
- He/Him
It could never happen for many, many reasons. But nonetheless I'm increasingly amused by Kuruda trying to get agents in GI Joe... but the only the soldiers he can find aren't skilled enough and the only accountants good enough keep flunking out of the training.
Ha!Given the fic's context and l/I confusion, for just a moment I was wondering what philosophy would arise in the Autobot capital city.
In the show, Mindbender, more than any other villain, felt like cruelty was an ideological sticking point for him. In one episode, he successfully recruits a scientific expert to build a superweapon for Cobra, and then he demands that the scientist proves his loyalty by using the weapon to kill his own brother (and the Joes who were with him, but Mindbender clearly considered "kill your own brother" the important part of the equation). And it's not the only time that sort of stuff happened.
Their meeting with Socrates was definitely my favorite scene in the movie. XD
I'm a naturalized French citizen who believes the French Revolution is an extremely important moment in the development of democracy, egalitarianism and progressive values in the world. So, yes, Bleu-Blanc-Rouge's frustration with how often this fascinating period gets broken down to "poor dumb Marie-Antoinette got beheaded by angry mob, Robespierre beheaded lots of people" - especially in the English-speaking world, but also at the hands of the more anti-democractic elements of French society - is very much my frustration.
Red Tape: "Hmph. Skill issue. Are they under the impression I could fight before G.I. Joe recruited me and put me through training?"
- Location
- Malaysia
Evil M. Lurker
What Lurks at Midnight
- Location
- The City, USA
Of course the sad thing is that Mindbender didn't intend to be evil.
It's even more amusing that G.I. Joe probably knew they were infiltrators the whole time and decided to do some little trolling.
The lore of GI JOE is weird at times.
I think the Ciaphas Cain series is good because you have a member of a ultra-fanatic nation trying to live up to what he thinks the IOM should be and breaking internally as the reality of the situation tests him along with a healthy imposter syndrome.
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Devoir does indeed have swamps, much to Gung Ho's regret.
Shared surnames aside, Bifrost ain't exactly from Louisiana.
That's comic lore - in the cartoon, his origin story was never addressed (...Honestly, there were very few origin stories in the cartoon, period).
Let's just say I'm not going with the comics on this one - Mindbender's evil was all natural.
The keen-eyed reader might recall why that may have some degree of relevance.
- Location
- Sweden
I'm hoping he gets to encounter a Crotalid.
darkstarling
Brilliantly Crazed
- Location
- Columbus, Ohio
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Actually… studying Crotalid interstellar teleportation would be a big deal. Might even be a key to cracking the dimensional shift, or at least give them the start of a tech tree.
Side quest: acquire a dozen live crotalids.
Or, since they seem locked out of their teleport for a few decades after using it, observe a crotalid migration with ALL the good sensors
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