In 40K, is Chaos corruption of Non-Imperial human society inevitable?

A lot of chaos's fuel comes from just how messed up the Imperium is.

A less imperial one could easily be less vulnerable to chaos, not more. Now you still need anti-chaos measures but you don't need the extreme religious fanaticism, horrible stratified society, or similar. There's so much unnecessary evil in the Imperium that increases, not decreases, their chaos vulnerability and that's part of why the SMs are so busy putting out fires and the church conducts so many purges, because their society may be designed to fight chaos but it sure as heck isn't designed to minimize chaos.
 
To be completely serious I'm not 19 (that 94 is a big hint)

Ah, so you are only Forever 19, then?

Battletech also has a problem with only having giant robots being the main focus, whereas 40k has the whole combined arms thing. I know this isn't actually true for all Battletech stuff, but giant robots alone does nothing for me.

I'm really sorry, but I just kind of find this paragraph hilarious when Battletech is often notable among Mecha settling for just how combined arms it is. Like much everyone in most cases uses plenty of tanks, fighters, and Infantry, with dedicated warships only vanishing for awhile because of no one having enough industry to maintain them.

I could pretty much say the same thing about Warhammer 40K, only replacing Mechs with big beefy guys in power armor.
 
I'm really sorry, but I just kind of find this paragraph hilarious when Battletech is often notable among Mecha settling for just how combined arms it is. Like much everyone in most cases uses plenty of tanks, fighters, and Infantry, with dedicated warships only vanishing for awhile because of no one having enough industry to maintain them.

I could pretty much say the same thing about Warhammer 40K, only replacing Mechs with big beefy guys in power armor.

You wouldn't be wrong. The majority of 40k ARE Space Marine videogames. Space Hulk, Deathwing, Space Marine, etc. But people speak DoW very fondly, and the tabletop games that are beginner entry is all skirmished with multiple factions.

Battletech is in that weird area in the sense it has lost cultural relevance it once had, with it only being notable amongst hardcore robot fans. What with the lack of video games for a while until rather recently.

40k also has memes. People who don't know 40k could cite a couple of memes from osmosis. Battletech doesn't really have any Cadias, Exterminatus, Waagh, Heresy, and the like. I can't give you one Battletech meme that I know.
 
Mostly just wanted to reply to this bit, with "BattleTech" and "yes"
And I heard of Battletech a long long time before I heard of 40k, and Battletech's giant robot aesthetics are unconsciously aped in a lot of places...
Sure, but battletech isn't getting a live action TV series.
What? No it isn't. If anything it dilutes it. The Imperium being vicious idiots in a dire setting that calls for a level head was one of the things that used to make the setting so damn bleak.
The bleakness is the point.
 
IIRC the current Imperium isn't the best humanity can be in the current circumstances it's the rotting remains of the warmachine the Emperor assembled to loot the galaxy and enslave much of humanity in order to rush his projects he thought would make humanity safe from the influence of Chaos, which was quickly jury rigged into something halfway sustainable/functioning by the remaining loyalist primarchs and malcador after the heresy.
 
40k also has memes. People who don't know 40k could cite a couple of memes from osmosis. Battletech doesn't really have any Cadias, Exterminatus, Waagh, Heresy, and the like. I can't give you one Battletech meme that I know.

Probably because Battletech kind of died down by the time social media (and its meme propagation potential) really picked up. Back when Mechwarrior 2 was big (with its focus on the Clans), "quiaff/quineg" were heard quite often among my friends, and "My dear, I give you the Capellan Confederation" was often quoted apparently at random. The "trollishly pseudo-religious frothy-mouthed fanatic" was the Word of Blake.

But again, it was all pushed to (relatively) ancient history by the time memes on social media were commonplace, so now we just see lots of WH40K memes, because that's what happens to be big right now. And I do agree that WH40K evidently has more staying power (for whatever reason), since people are still more familiar with it compared to Battletech.

Timeline-wise, my earliest memories of Battletech was playing some tabletop when I was young, and I also recall later checking out my friends playing WH40K at the time, and both were considered to be fairly well-established by then. The Battletech experience was sometime not long before the Mechwarrior video game came out, and the WH40K experience was (due to my checking dates recently) around the time of Second Edition, ie when Tyranids became more prominent as a faction. So based on my recollections, the properties were pretty much contemporary, but now people mostly know WH40K and not Battletech.
 
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IIRC the current Imperium isn't the best humanity can be in the current circumstances it's the rotting remains of the warmachine the Emperor assembled to loot the galaxy and enslave much of humanity in order to rush his projects he thought would make humanity safe from the influence of Chaos, which was quickly jury rigged into something halfway sustainable/functioning by the remaining loyalist primarchs and malcador after the heresy.

Basially, it operated under the same principles as the Third Reich, pillage and plunder anything you get.
 
I've always enjoyed this post on the utterly messed-up state of the Imperium. It pertains most particularly to the Adeptus Mechanicus, but the spirit can be extended to cover the Imperium as a whole.

AdMech/STC copypasta said:
Build a library, fill it with all human knowledge. You take it elsewhere when you need a book from it, but the book is only a simplified copy. You don't understand the real book, and you don't need to. Nobody takes the real books anywhere because why would you, when there's a whole library there?

Now that library goes rogue and the maintenance machinery starts killing everyone any-fucking-where near it. Where the fuck did they all come from, you swear to god there weren't this many, and there weren't because they're using the library's information to fight their war. The government fights a battle that destroys the planet against these robots and tears apart the library to stop them using it, only to be destroyed in the process. The library is leveled, cast into flames, every book burned and every computer virus-laden.

Then comes a man who worked there. He talks to the few surviving library workers, assembles their information, and starts rebuilding a city around the library and expanding it as the librarians find little scraps of paper and fragmented bits of files that stuck together just right read something. They rebuild a library from scrap on the ashes of the old. It isn't a shadow on the glory of the old, but it is all they have.

Then the city turns on itself, kills its master, and the librarians turn to rage. Half of them kill the other half and destroy the remnants of the library because where they're going they won't need science. Everything burns, and the city is left to a scattered few survivors, walls open to the world, with the hungry predators circling.

The Adeptus Mechanicus is the sole surviving librarian, desperately scrabbling through the ashes of paper and splinters of hard drives for anything to help him and the city he needs to survive just a second longer.
 
I think it's been firmly established by factions like Severan Dominate and so on that rebellions don't always fall to chaos. It's just that Chaos can overwhelm them without support, and usually, it's Chaos/Genestealers/whatever starting the re

[INFORMATION=I am right here]Pull your heads in or I will excommunicate the lot of you.[/INFORMATION]

You had a perfect opportunity to say "if this thread continues the way it is I'll do my own purging" and you didn't. Shame.
 
On the battletech discussion.

I am pretty sure it got me Into mecha 22-23 years ago, despite never have played it. Well ok, it might be 19 years ago.

it started with a poor preteen Sucal getting annoyed at his cousin got the brand new Corps Attack helicopter, thus having the fire power advantage in games of army. So I was sulking away in a really dodgy market place when I found this plastic thing. It reached up to my knees, had rockets on shoulder pads, and instead of hands... it had massive cannons!

Needless to say I fell in love. Especially when I saw more missile launchers on it's legs.

Did not discover 40k until high school, but I played the shit out of that
 
I would like to know more.

So, background. My PC on this mission was a psyker named Sandra Candle-For-The-Empire (her family is named after the ship they used to astropath for). One of the others was Sister Francisca, a hospitaler with a terrible attitude and a painkiller dependence. A few sessions ago, the two of them bonded, became a bad influence on each other, and started a little side business. "Candles For The Emperor" utilizes Francisca's pharmaceutical specialty to produce products with a wide variety of aromatic effects.

The PC party also includes a gruff old stoner Adept, Randy Jackson, with no manners and a creepy demeanor who nonetheless aces every single charisma related check. Needless to say, he's been very active in promoting our products as well.

Anyway, this dome city had been in a seige/standoff situation between the local militia and a small band of underequipped rogue space marines for over a decade. The leaders of both factions were secretly sorcerers of Tzeench, and he was using them to prolong the stalemate indefinitely and just farm it for that neverending hope of things getting better.

Anyway, we snoop around until we learn about the real situation, and that start with a raid on the city administrator's office. Said administrator turns out to be completely possessed by a Lord of Change, and turns into a shoggoth like form to defend itself. A round or two into the combat, it mind whammies us and Randy fails his save, forcing him to regard the demon as a friend. And, not sure how else to resolve the conflict nonviolently, Randy offers the Lord of Change part of his stash. He also, as is customary, rolls really, really well on diplomacy.

The demon is amused and slightly confused by this, but keeps fighting.

On his next turn, after failing to snap out of it, he tries another tac.

RANDY: Hey, you guys like making deals, right? I got one for you.

DEMON: Speak quickly, mortal.

RANDY: You leave this planet, and I give you a whol package of free scented candles.

The demon starts to laugh again, but then I suddenly have an idea.

SANDRA: Francisca! Which scent makes you feel hopeful? We need one that induces hope!

FRANCISCA: Vanilla! Definitely the vanilla!

RANDY: You heard the ladies, fella. Vanilla. All ya gotta do is nothing, and they're yours.

Randy aces his cha check even harder than usual. And, the demon knew that the battle had already turned against it (we'd chipped away a good amount of its hp, and we'd t ken only minor injuries ourselves and had all been passing our saves besides Randy). GM reluctantly rolls a willpower check for the Lord of Change. Critfail.

GM then decides that the demon still gets to roll a Perils of the Materium check to avoid being corrupted. Fail.

It takes its candles and disappears back into the warp.

I guess we'll know if he was happy with the deal if we start getting contacted by some new clientelle. I imagine we could sell our poppy scented candles to Nurgle demons, LSD ones to Slaaneshi, some sort of inhalation berserker drug to the blood guys, etc. There could be real money in high heresy.
 
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Eh, I've always felt that that post kind of glosses over how much politicking and hoarding information for the benefit of just their particular forgeworld has hurt the Mechanicus over the years.
I can't find it now but I remember someone on SB a while back suggesting that the Mechanicus' internal economy is guild-based. Any given Forge World being exceptionally good at manufacturing a specific technology is going to hoard the relevant expertise because it keeps them more economically important (and thus more politically relevant) to be able to provide high-grade devices that nobody else can. There's no system in place to increase the overall profit from sharing to exceed that achieved by hoarding. Basically the Mechanicus needs a patent office.
 
I've said this before, but the Imperium is very much the cause of most of its own problems.

Their main problem is the lack of an endgame. The imperium treads water, it doesn't *have* a victory condition.
 
I can't find it now but I remember someone on SB a while back suggesting that the Mechanicus' internal economy is guild-based. Any given Forge World being exceptionally good at manufacturing a specific technology is going to hoard the relevant expertise because it keeps them more economically important (and thus more politically relevant) to be able to provide high-grade devices that nobody else can. There's no system in place to increase the overall profit from sharing to exceed that achieved by hoarding. Basically the Mechanicus needs a patent office.

Or the Mechanicus could realize that not sharing between Forge World is a loosing strategy in the long run. Also I have a hard time imagining how you can have a galactic-scale economy when space travel is so slow and unreliable.

I've said this before, but the Imperium is very much the cause of most of its own problems.

Their main problem is the lack of an endgame. The imperium treads water, it doesn't *have* a victory condition.

Dunno, total extermination of all xeno species and subjugation of all the galaxy seems like a good goal for them. (well, there's also chaos, but I don't think you can defeat chaos)
 
I've said this before, but the Imperium is very much the cause of most of its own problems.

Their main problem is the lack of an endgame. The imperium treads water, it doesn't *have* a victory condition.
Sure it does : The elimination of anything that isn't human and the extermination of all humans that don't conform to it so they can spend eternity mindlessly worship the emperor.

No what it does lack is actually a realistic means or even an actual plan to get to that point. it seems the "plan" is just holding out for emperor/primarch to return and magically fix everything.

Edit :
I've always enjoyed this post on the utterly messed-up state of the Imperium. It pertains most particularly to the Adeptus Mechanicus, but the spirit can be extended to cover the Imperium as a whole.

A more accurate analogy would be that the Mechanicus is an insane obsessed scholar jealousy guarding some book scraps he found while burning down any attempts to rebuild the library and kills any who try .

I can't find it now but I remember someone on SB a while back suggesting that the Mechanicus' internal economy is guild-based. Any given Forge World being exceptionally good at manufacturing a specific technology is going to hoard the relevant expertise because it keeps them more economically important (and thus more politically relevant) to be able to provide high-grade devices that nobody else can. There's no system in place to increase the overall profit from sharing to exceed that achieved by hoarding. Basically the Mechanicus needs a patent office.

Which only serves to make them look even more suicidally stupid since they are just making chaos' job easier and all it takes is a single successful invasion for valuable technologies to be lost forever
 
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a) I prefer bloody infantry, tanks, and giant robots over just giant robots

This is literally BattleTech's jam, my man. Like...here is a not-quite comprehensive listing of existing tanks and other vehicles. It has 11 types of playable submarines alone. That's almost as many of a niche combat unit most people will never touch as there are Leman Russ variants.

What's the MechWarrior equivalent of Primaris Lieutenants?

Bloodnamed Trueborn Clanners. In fact, directly equivalent, Bloodnamed Trueborn Elemental phenotype Clanners.
 
I also said I recognise this, but BattleTech does a bad job actually showing you all this combined arms stuff.

Maybe they shouldn't name their series after giant robots?
 
So, background. My PC on this mission was a psyker named Sandra Candle-For-The-Empire (her family is named after the ship they used to astropath for). One of the others was Sister Francisca, a hospitaler with a terrible attitude and a painkiller dependence. A few sessions ago, the two of them bonded, became a bad influence on each other, and started a little side business. "Candles For The Emperor" utilizes Francisca's pharmaceutical specialty to produce products with a wide variety of aromatic effects.

The PC party also includes a gruff old stoner Adept, Randy Jackson, with no manners and a creepy demeanor who nonetheless aces every single charisma related check. Needless to say, he's been very active in promoting our products as well.

Anyway, this dome city had been in a seige/standoff situation between the local militia and a small band of underequipped rogue space marines for over a decade. The leaders of both factions were secretly sorcerers of Tzeench, and he was using them to prolong the stalemate indefinitely and just farm it for that neverending hope of things getting better.

Anyway, we snoop around until we learn about the real situation, and that start with a raid on the city administrator's office. Said administrator turns out to be completely possessed by a Lord of Change, and turns into a shoggoth like form to defend itself. A round or two into the combat, it mind whammies us and Randy fails his save, forcing him to regard the demon as a friend. And, not sure how else to resolve the conflict nonviolently, Randy offers the Lord of Change part of his stash. He also, as is customary, rolls really, really well on diplomacy.

The demon is amused and slightly confused by this, but keeps fighting.

On his next turn, after failing to snap out of it, he tries another tac.

RANDY: Hey, you guys like making deals, right? I got one for you.

DEMON: Speak quickly, mortal.

RANDY: You leave this planet, and I give you a whol package of free scented candles.

The demon starts to laugh again, but then I suddenly have an idea.

SANDRA: Francisca! Which scent makes you feel hopeful? We need one that induces hope!

FRANCISCA: Vanilla! Definitely the vanilla!

RANDY: You heard the ladies, fella. Vanilla. All ya gotta do is nothing, and they're yours.

Randy aces his cha check even harder than usual. And, the demon knew that the battle had already turned against it (we'd chipped away a good amount of its hp, and we'd t ken only minor injuries ourselves and had all been passing our saves besides Randy). GM reluctantly rolls a willpower check for the Lord of Change. Critfail.

GM then decides that the demon still gets to roll a Perils of the Materium check to avoid being corrupted. Fail.

It takes its candles and disappears back into the warp.

I guess we'll know if he was happy with the deal if we start getting contacted by some new clientelle. I imagine we could sell our poppy scented candles to Nurgle demons, LSD ones to Slaaneshi, some sort of inhalation berserker drug to the blood guys, etc. There could be real money in high heresy.

Tobacco incense works well for Khornate. The sweet scent of death and bellowing smoke.
 
Bloodnamed Trueborn Clanners. In fact, directly equivalent, Bloodnamed Trueborn Elemental phenotype Clanners.

I'd argue that if they ever bothered to advance the timeline and properly do a 3145 tech manual, it'd be the Clan ilStar project. There's some hints in Era Report 3145 IIRC that the Clans have been working on seriousface genemods in 3145 to keep their edge, way beyond the normal stuff that even Elementals managed and closer to Society tech.

If we're still going with the ilKhan as the next stop in the timeline, that would probably play a part in the Clans' ability to take Terra.

If we go a little back, the Manei Domini were probably plotwise equivalent to Evil Primaris Marines, because Manei Domini are fucking hardcore. People reading their unit tables were like "wait, wait, you can't be serious, all of them are Elite/Fanatical?" and then we got Jihad Hotspots 3072 and that was basically "holy shit their pilots never take pilot hits ever, their Battle Armor deals extra leg damage and can take more punishment, and the less said about their conventional infantry the better."
 
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