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In 40K, is Chaos corruption of Non-Imperial human society inevitable?

Aranfan said:
Fine.

Chaos is how fascists view non fascists. So, if you want to maintain thematic coherence with 40k, the narrative conceit must remain.
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> 40k
> Thematic coherence
> Coherent narrative

Choose one.

Also you have not answered the OP's question. You have not provided any evidence.

I know it's hard for some people to understand, but a 30 year franchise MAY, in fact change direction and themes as new people come in offering different perspectives.

Don't be like this.
 
Hykal94 said:
When Girlylad took power, there's this event called the Primarch's Purge in which Roboto went onto Terra with blade and bolter more or less uprooting the corruption. All of the corruption. Including chaos cults which meant chaos cults was operating on Terra itself. Which is 500 ways of messed up if the Custodes couldn't get a handle on it.
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"If Terra was to be his fortress and Sol his mustering ground, the Primarch could not afford to risk instability or insurrection endangering his efforts. He made overtures to the Inquisition, the Adeptus Custodes, the Adeptus Arbites, the Ecclesiarchy, and even the Assassinorum to aid him. So began a time of brutal purges throughout Terra's sprawling macro hives that saw hundreds of petty cults uprooted and millions of alleged heretics, mutants, and recidivists burned alive in the streets. Few were safe from this campaign of terror, which soon became known as The Primarch's Scourge and saw a shocking number of corrupt officials, dilettante cult-magisters, and self-interested high acolytes culled from Terran high society. Horron Sch'est, the notoriously arrogant and conservative Consul Pre-eminus of the Navigator Houses, was publicly flogged to the widespread shock of all. He had attempted to hold the crusade muster to ransom by withholding the aid of the guilds pending promises of richly preferential treatment from the High Lords, but he soon found that Guilliman's patience for such manoeuvring was nil. Within weeks of the ratification of Guilliman's plans by the High Lords, several all-out wars were raging through the Terran underhives as xenofile cults and Chaos worshippers fought desperately for their survival. Collateral damage spiralled. Voices of dissent murmured wherever they did not believe they could be heard. Yet as a result of the scourge the Primarch's muster went uninterrupted by sabotage, sedition, or politicking – at least in the main.."

Prior to this, of course, there were global uprisings on Terra by Chaos cults which included the the Astronomicon being taken over by possessed psykers. Then shit got worse.

Aranfan said:
Fine.

Chaos is how fascists view non fascists. So, if you want to maintain thematic coherence with 40k, the narrative conceit must remain.
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Look, if you want another Wokehammer rant thread, you're welcome to make one elsewhere.
 
Hykal94 said:
When Girlylad took power, there's this event called the Primarch's Purge in which Roboto went onto Terra with blade and bolter more or less uprooting the corruption. All of the corruption. Including chaos cults which meant chaos cults was operating on Terra itself. Which is 500 ways of messed up if the Custodes couldn't get a handle on it.
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To be fair, there are ten thousand Custodes and what, A Trillion people on Terra? More? Certainly it's probably the most populated planet in existance. Moreover, the Custodes have a lot of people occupied by fixed things such as the thousand guarding the corpse-emperor, and however many are fighting the small rift into the Warp that the Human Webway project caused.
 
Aaaaand the 40k fan brigade has arrived to stifle any and all discussion.
Again.
Just like you did with "Sympathy for the Heretic"
Just like you do with every fucking thread.
 
Hykal94 said:
Yeah, that's fair.



Okay I haven't read Master of Mankind yet but that thing still isn't closed?!
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Oh, I'm not upto date on the events that unfolded past Cadia. I think the last book i read was something like 7th or 8th core. Given Robot Gullyman is up and about, he's probably just done the sensible thing and ordered the room it's in flooded with liquid adimantite until there's just a solid blook of the stuff stopping the way.
 
Estro said:
To be fair, there are ten thousand Custodes and what, A Trillion people on Terra? More? Certainly it's probably the most populated planet in existance. Moreover, the Custodes have a lot of people occupied by fixed things such as the thousand guarding the corpse-emperor, and however many are fighting the small rift into the Warp that the Human Webway project caused.
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Quadrillions on Terra per the Vaults of Terra. Unless there's something in the Custodes codex, the war in the web way is over and none of them are involved with it.

Jane Dough said:
Aaaaand the 40k fan brigade has arrived to stifle any and all discussion.
Again.
Just like you did with "Sympathy for the Heretic"
Just like you do with every fucking thread.
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The 40K fans were here first and going "No, not everything gets instachaosed" before the "LOL FASCISTS" crew popped in.
 
But yeah, I'd say the interex and like, the fact we can find non-chaos societies behind millennia old warp storms prove that you can get along just fine without the Corpse Emperor and his band of brothers looking over your shoulder.
 
Osteoclast said:
It's not impossible, and there are non-Imperial worlds and small empires and whatnot that aren't corrupted, especially beyond the light of the astronomicon. From a narrative standpoint, however, there are two major problems:
1. 40K is a post-apocalyptic universe. The golden age of man has come and gone, disappeared in horror with the Age of Strife, and the Emperor's attempted renaissance has failed. It's very explicit that you should forget the hopes of technology, science, progress, and understanding because it is all gone, never to return. Anything that could return that, that could be that hope, must fail then, in order to keep to the narrative.
2. There is also the issue, existent from the beginning of 40K, that mankind is rapidly evolving into a psychic race, one that will make the birth of Slaanesh look like a tame affair. So yeah, small empires and whatnot might be ok, but they'll still be affected by GALAXY OF TERROR EREBUS BOOGALOO. This is currently being explored by the Psychic Awakening campaign, which is filling in the gaps from "Cadia went boom and oh god there's a warp rift cutting the galaxy in two" to today, approximately a century later, at the end of the Indomitus Crusade.
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So, "Psychic Awakening" is between "Fall of Cadia" and present time?
 
Osteoclast said:
Quadrillions on Terra per the Vaults of Terra. Unless there's something in the Custodes codex, the war in the web way is over and none of them are involved with it.
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I did think it was Quadrillions, but then i was like "is that a bit too high?". Like, Trantor (which Terra shamelessly rips parts from) has only a few trillion if I remember correctly. Plus most hive worlds are only in the hundreds of billions. What's the pop-density for that, I wonder.

Hmm. Doing the maths, and assuming the lowest possible interpretation of "Quadrillions" (i.e. two), that's a population density of about ten million people per square mile, or four million people per square kilometer. That's... two orders of magnitude more than the densest city listed on wikipedia. So not impossibly implausible, then.
 
Estro said:
I did think it was Quadrillions, but then i was like "is that a bit too high?". Like, Trantor (which Terra shamelessly rips parts from) has only a few trillion if I remember correctly. Plus most hive worlds are only in the hundreds of billions. What's the pop-density for that, I wonder.

Hmm. Doing the maths, and assuming the lowest possible interpretation of "Quadrillions" (i.e. two), that's a population density of about ten million people per square mile, or four million people per square kilometer. That's... two orders of magnitude more than the densest city listed on wikipedia. So not impossibly implausible, then.
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Dig deep enough and build high enough...

Plus Terra, to the imperium, IS the center of the universe, kind of. Everyone wants to be or go there.
 
Estro said:
I did think it was Quadrillions, but then i was like "is that a bit too high?". Like, Trantor (which Terra shamelessly rips parts from) has only a few trillion if I remember correctly. Plus most hive worlds are only in the hundreds of billions. What's the pop-density for that, I wonder.

Hmm. Doing the maths, and assuming the lowest possible interpretation of "Quadrillions" (i.e. two), that's a population density of about ten million people per square mile, or four million people per square kilometer. That's... two orders of magnitude more than the densest city listed on wikipedia. So not impossibly implausible, then.
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Trantor has, IIRC, a population in the billions, although it is possible Asimov meant long-scale billion, eg. short-scale trillion.
 
Sabertooth said:
So, "Psychic Awakening" is between "Fall of Cadia" and present time?
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Correct, per the people who've listened to the voxcasts about it at least.

Jane Dough said:
That isn't what happened.
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Hykal and I were both here before "Chaos is how fascists view non fascists."

Estro said:
I did think it was Quadrillions, but then i was like "is that a bit too high?". Like, Trantor (which Terra shamelessly rips parts from) has only a few trillion if I remember correctly. Plus most hive worlds are only in the hundreds of billions. What's the pop-density for that, I wonder.

Hmm. Doing the maths, and assuming the lowest possible interpretation of "Quadrillions" (i.e. two), that's a population density of about ten million people per square mile, or four million people per square kilometer. That's... two orders of magnitude more than the densest city listed on wikipedia. So not impossibly implausible, then.
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Keep in mind too that there are no oceans and the entirety of Earth's surface is open for and pretty much filled with hives of various sorts.

Also that the Imperium has no use for fire marshal "occupancy limits" or living standards or the like. People will flat out denounce their own family to the inquisition, truthfully or not, just to get a couple square meters of shitty living space.
 
Eliar said:
Dig deep enough and build high enough...

Plus Terra, to the imperium, IS the center of the universe, kind of. Everyone wants to be or go there.
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Yeah, I can see how it can conceivably be done. Honestly at this point given that Trantor went down a few miles at all points, I'm thinking it might have actually been underpopulated.

LordInsane said:
Trantor has, IIRC, a population in the billions, although it is possible Asimov meant long-scale billion, eg. short-scale trillion.
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Huh. Honestly, for that to make any sense given the description you'd have to assume it. Although the series is so good I can forgive all of it's flaws. All of them. Hari Seldon is awesome.
 
You know, despite researching this multiple times, I'm still unsure why the Inquisition would totally want to genocide Armageddon (just in case), but Cadia and her neighbours are right there staring into the Eye of Terror.

There MUST be some sort of public education about this sort of thing. Did Cadia exist in 30k?
 
Hykal94 said:
You know, despite researching this multiple times, I'm still unsure why the Inquisition would totally want to genocide Armageddon (just in case), but Cadia and her neighbours are right there staring into the Eye of Terror.

There MUST be some sort of public education about this sort of thing. Did Cadia exist in 30k?
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Cadia was conquered as Logar held his fleet over it. He found one of the humans on it (they were all apparently like, iron age) who met him and would later guide him and some of his marines into the eye itself and be converted. He later had it exterminatus'd because logar was a dick.

It'd only be settled properly by the imperium in the wake of the 1st Black Crusade to, well, stop the goddam black crusades. And, well, it did that fairly well. The planet broke before the guard did, after all.
 
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Hykal94 said:
You know, despite researching this multiple times, I'm still unsure why the Inquisition would totally want to genocide Armageddon (just in case), but Cadia and her neighbours are right there staring into the Eye of Terror.

There MUST be some sort of public education about this sort of thing. Did Cadia exist in 30k?
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The Inquisition is just kinda weird tbh, but I believe the justification given was that that particular Inquisitor was a hardline prick and the presence of Angron were why; otherwise it would've just been a normal "Oops, we martyred all the guys who saw a daemon during their victory parade". And I think it's First Heretic that deals with Cadia in 30K.
 
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