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Hmmph... this junior is a good seed [Cultivation Management Quest]

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    • Adhoc vote count started by Liliet on Dec 14, 2020 at 1:38 PM, finished with 41 posts and 15 votes.
    • [X] Plan All In
      -[x] Qi Condensation Deployment (+75,000 Qi Condensation disciples for the duration of the war)
      -[x] Core Formation Deployment (+10 Core Formation Elders for the duration of the war)
      -[x] Elite Deployment (+2 Late Core Formation Elders, +1 Great Circle Elder for the duration of the war)
      -[x] Front Line Deployment
      -[x] Land.
      -[x] Wealth.
      -[x] Favour
      -[x] Foundation Establishment Deployment (+1,500 Foundation Establishment Experts for the duration of the war)
      -[x] Soups and Spices (Losses among Foundation and above cultivators mitigated during the war).
      -[x] A Favour.
      [X] Plan All In But We're Assholes
      -[x] Qi Condensation Deployment (+75,000 Qi Condensation disciples for the duration of the war)
      -[x] Core Formation Deployment (+10 Core Formation Elders for the duration of the war)
      -[x] Elite Deployment (+2 Late Core Formation Elders, +1 Great Circle Elder for the duration of the war)
      -[x] Front Line Deployment
      -[x] Land.
      -[x] Wealth.
      -[x] Favour
      -[x] Foundation Establishment Deployment (+1,500 Foundation Establishment Experts for the duration of the war)
      -[x] Soups and Spices (Losses among Foundation and above cultivators mitigated during the war).
      [X] Fair Trade
      [X] This is a unfair trade
      [x] Core Formation Deployment (+10 Core Formation Elders for the duration of the war)
      [x] Land.
      [x] Soups and Spices (Losses among Foundation and above cultivators mitigated during the war).
      [x] A Favour.
      [X] Example Plan
      -[X] Example Subvote
      -[X] Example Subvote x2
      -[X] Example Subvote x3
      [X] Plan All In Without Foundation
      -[x] Qi Condensation Deployment (+75,000 Qi Condensation disciples for the duration of the war)
      -[x] Elite Deployment (+2 Late Core Formation Elders, +1 Great Circle Elder for the duration of the war)
      -[x] Front Line Deployment
      -[x] Land.
      -[x] Wealth.
      -[x] Core Formation Deployment (+10 Core Formation Elders for the duration of the war)
      -[x] Soups and Spices (Losses among Foundation and above cultivators mitigated during the war).
      -[x] A Favour.
      [X] Plan All In Without Foundation AND We're Assholes
      -[x] Qi Condensation Deployment (+75,000 Qi Condensation disciples for the duration of the war)
      -[x] Elite Deployment (+2 Late Core Formation Elders, +1 Great Circle Elder for the duration of the war)
      -[x] Front Line Deployment
      -[x] Land.
      -[x] Wealth.
      -[x] Core Formation Deployment (+10 Core Formation Elders for the duration of the war)
      -[x] Soups and Spices (Losses among Foundation and above cultivators mitigated during the war).
      [X] Old Gold Calls For Aid!
      -[x] Core Formation Deployment (+10 Core Formation Elders for the duration of the war)
      -[x] Elite Deployment (+2 Late Core Formation Elders, +1 Great Circle Elder for the duration of the war)
      -[x] Front Line Deployment
      -[x] Wealth.
      -[x] Foundation Establishment Deployment (+1,500 Foundation Establishment Experts for the duration of the war)
      -[x] Soups and Spices (Losses among Foundation and above cultivators mitigated during the war).
      -[x] Unrestrict their trade to the north
      [X] Fair Trade
      -[X] Hong Xuan Clan
      --[X] Foundation Establishment Deployment (+1,500 Foundation Establishment Experts for the duration of the war)
      --[X] Core Formation Deployment (+10 Core Formation Elders for the duration of the war)
      --[X] Elite Deployment (+2 Late Core Formation Elders, +1 Great Circle Elder for the duration of the war)
      --[X] Front Line Deployment
      -[X] Boons
      --[X] Land(2).
      --[X] Wealth.
      --[X] Favour.
      -[X] Simmering Soup Sect
      --[X] Core Formation Deployment (+6 Core Formation Elders for the duration of the war)
      --[X] Soups and Spices (Losses among Foundation and above cultivators mitigated during the war).
      [X] This is a unfair trade
      -[X] Hong Xuan Clan
      --[X] Qi Condensation Deployment (+75,000 Qi Condensation disciples for the duration of the war)
      --[X] Core Formation Deployment (+10 Core Formation Elders for the duration of the war)
      --[X] Favour.
      -[X] Simmering Soup Sect
      --[X] Foundation Establishment Deployment (+1,500 Foundation Establishment Experts for the duration of the war)
      --[X] Soups and Spices (Losses among Foundation and above cultivators mitigated during the war).
      [X] Reasonable Overlord
      -[X] Hong Xuan Clan
      --[X] Qi Condensation Deployment (+75,000 Qi Condensation disciples for the duration of the war)
      --[X] Core Formation Deployment (+10 Core Formation Elders for the duration of the war)
      --[X] Elite Deployment (+2 Late Core Formation Elders, +1 Great Circle Elder for the duration of the war)
      -[X] Boons
      --[X] Land.
      --[X] Wealth.
      --[X] Favour.
      -[X] Simmering Soup Sect
      --[X] Core Formation Deployment (+6 Core Formation Elders for the duration of the war)
      --[X] Soups and Spices (Losses among Foundation and above cultivators mitigated during the war).
    Click to expand...
     
    Okay, having had some time to think on it at works, I think this is a better idea to work with.

    [X] Plan: Take what we need to win
    -[X][HONG] Qi Condensation Deployment (+75,000 Qi Condensation disciples for the duration of the war)
    -[X][HONG] Elite Deployment (+2 Late Core Formation Elders, +1 Great Circle Elder for the duration of the war)
    -[X][HONG] Front Line Deployment
    -[X][HONG] Wealth.
    -[X][HONG] Land
    -[X][HONG] A Favor
    -[X][SOUP] Soups and Spices (Losses among Foundation and above cultivators mitigated during the war).
    -[X][SOUP] Unrestrict their trade to the north

    To elaborate, our current position is that we're fighting a tide of foes with a few super elites mixed in, what we have is a fractured group of ordinary fighters who can punch well above their weight in Mass Combat, and an almost entirely intact Expert populace. Our ordinary Cores are also more or less back to strength thanks to Destasia's clutch roll.

    What we lack are warm bodies, and super experts. Our midrange core is mitigated by the presence of our Mercenaries, who'll be here for the war.

    So, here's what we do to make an affordable plan.

    We draw on Hong Xuan to get some mobile Super Experts on the table, as well as low ranking Cultivators. We repay them in one infusion of liquid wealth and claims on the Gilded Crags--which sounds bad but when you realize if this war goes well for us, we're going to be in a position to seize a hell of a lot more? We still win out from this--and any victory in this war invariably requires the death of Old Cannibal, which easily pays the Wealth cost. We lean on them further to get them actively participating, and we have functionally hacked our way back to phantom full strength, against the starving and weakened Cannibals. The Favor will be expensive but one Favor is affordable in our current budget.

    As for the Soup Sect? They're best used covering a weakness that our current magic number wand just created--namely, that Cultivators outside the Clan aren't nearly as resilient. So instead, we offer them permission to sell outside the Clan, in exchange for them breaking out the good shit, this gives our hirelings and vassal levies more survivability, and gets Soup Sect more satisfied with our current arrangement.

    We do not want to brew badwill with our stronger vassals, and we can win without fully calling the levies or overdrawing our rights as a suzerain. This spread functionally gets us close to full effective strength, and I would bet on us in a defensive footing in that case. This is also a very affordable spread if we win--and with this spread, I feel we are likely to win the war and can leverage the future then on recovery and seizing enough ground to maintain the current balance of power in our estate, and profit greatly in the long run.

    Taking every option is going to leave us paying for this war for the better part of a century. Take what you need, and pay a suitable price for it--no more, no less.
     
    Hi, everybody. First of all, I just created an account to participate in this quest so please bear with me if I'm being foolish lol. Also, OccipitalLobe thanks for the entertainment, I highly enjoy the difficulty and originality of the quest!

    Now my thoughs on the vote :

    All in all, I think our vassals are not where we should expend our bargaining chips. As in, they won't help us against the main threat which is Old Cannibal getting Nascent soul allies. Furthermore, we need bargaining chips to bring on our own helper(s).

    I think that Jingsheng are the crux of the war with their armies and TWO nascent souls. Thus I think we should do absolutely anything to get them to help us and sign a lengthy peace treaty. It's much more important not to lose to much in this war than to gain.

    Moreover, if we don't secure a long peace treaty with them we can't rest in the long run as they will always threaten our flank. After all, we ARE a demonic sect and as a righteous sect, they are entierly in their rights to attack us if we show weakness (either now of after next trials which are coming fast especially if we have to spend much of our future ressources on placating our allies).

    The best would probably be an alliance with Jingsheng, overt or covert. They're greedy merchants, let's offer them an offer too generous to refuse (else, Old Cannibal might do it in our stead). If we get into an bidding war with the cannibal I think we can win but not if we spent all our ressources on our vassals.

    And there is so much we can offer to Jingsheng to cement an alliance! Tarrif suspension, access or even middleman status to sell our goods and formations, improving their defenses, revitalising their desert lands with our formations, even limited access to our secret realm and qi-condensation training treasure.

    Plus, even if we don't gain much from this war, there are still opportunities to be had with the bees, especialy if we can bargain for the help of Jingshen in our deal.

    Plus, with an allied or truced Jingsheng our vassals being unhappy is much less of an issue.

    Question for QM :

    Could we ask our vassals for wealth to bribe gift our neighbour instead of troops?
     
    Last edited:
    Tentatively :

    [X] Plan: Keep our cash to bribe the greedy merchants.
    - [X] [HONG] : Nothing (or volontary contributions)
    - [X] [SOUP] : Nothing (or volontary contributions)
     
    Last edited:
    [X] Plan: Take what we need to win

    I like this plan much more than the others, I don't know why everyone wants to give away wealth
     
    Alectai said:
    Okay, having had some time to think on it at works, I think this is a better idea to work with.

    [] Plan: Take what we need to win
    ...
    Click to expand...
    Click to shrink...

    Thing is, this plan like others doesn't account for us potentialy losing or Jianshen helping the Cannibal (or turning on us after the war leave us and our vassals depleted)... And we are still giving much away which could potentially buy us a real alliance.

    The favour, wealth and unrestricted trade with the north are all valuable bargaining chips when dealing with Jianshang.
     
    Last edited:
    [X] Plan: Take what we need to win

    Much better. I have reservations about the soup sect, but the opportunity cost of 2x Wealth is huge.
     
    Random12345 said:
    @occipitallobe What does unrestricting trade to the North actually mean in terms of trading partners for the Simmering Soup sect? Cannot into geography or faction locations here. Thanks!
    Click to expand...
    Click to shrink...
    The Yuan Clan is the biggest one as they hold the northern border of the Shimmering Soup Sect, which means it'd filter out to the Quiet Mountain Region; Yuan, Qiguai, Demon Oak.
     
    Man, people really want to throw all our Wealth away.

    That is 10 Wealth. Enough to raise several new Core Formations. It's something we very much need if we want to regrow to past state. A whole clan working for extra Wealth is half that on avarege, per a turn.

    Let us not cripple ourselves till the next trials by pawning away both our future income and Nascent Soul actions. Wealth and land are forever, relationships are only temporary. We can probably recover from a relationship hit with time. With trials every 5 turns, we need every single piece of Wealth we can get. Land is a smaller priority as long as we don't have important infrastructure on it.

    Land is not that much of a problem if we give a limited about (remember our Array is on that land).

    The world doesn't also function in vacuum. If Hong Xuan clan gets enough wealth, they could in theory (if their Great Circle Elder is talented enough) get a Early Nascent Soul. In that case they run into a problem. They don't actually have enough territory to support a Nascent Soul, meaning they have 2 options. Take more territory or let the Nascent Soul die.

    Considering they border 2 territories which have enough resources to support Nascent Souls, it is either us or Sorrowfull Blacksmith Sect. And well, I'm not liking those odds when we take into account how much in a bad position we are.
     
    Adhoc vote count started by Liliet on Dec 15, 2020 at 5:48 AM, finished with 64 posts and 27 votes.
    • [X] Plan: Take what we need to win
      -[X][HONG] Qi Condensation Deployment (+75,000 Qi Condensation disciples for the duration of the war)
      -[X][HONG] Elite Deployment (+2 Late Core Formation Elders, +1 Great Circle Elder for the duration of the war)
      -[X][HONG] Front Line Deployment
      -[X][HONG] Wealth.
      -[X][HONG] Land
      -[X][HONG] A Favor
      -[X][SOUP] Soups and Spices (Losses among Foundation and above cultivators mitigated during the war).
      -[X][SOUP] Unrestrict their trade to the north
      [X] Plan All In
      -[x] Qi Condensation Deployment (+75,000 Qi Condensation disciples for the duration of the war)
      -[x] Core Formation Deployment (+10 Core Formation Elders for the duration of the war)
      -[x] Elite Deployment (+2 Late Core Formation Elders, +1 Great Circle Elder for the duration of the war)
      -[x] Front Line Deployment
      -[x] Land.
      -[x] Wealth.
      -[x] Favour
      -[x] Foundation Establishment Deployment (+1,500 Foundation Establishment Experts for the duration of the war)
      -[x] Soups and Spices (Losses among Foundation and above cultivators mitigated during the war).
      -[x] A Favour.
      [X] Plan All In But We're Assholes
      -[x] Qi Condensation Deployment (+75,000 Qi Condensation disciples for the duration of the war)
      -[x] Core Formation Deployment (+10 Core Formation Elders for the duration of the war)
      -[x] Elite Deployment (+2 Late Core Formation Elders, +1 Great Circle Elder for the duration of the war)
      -[x] Front Line Deployment
      -[x] Land.
      -[x] Wealth.
      -[x] Favour
      -[x] Foundation Establishment Deployment (+1,500 Foundation Establishment Experts for the duration of the war)
      -[x] Soups and Spices (Losses among Foundation and above cultivators mitigated during the war).
      [X] Fair Trade
      [X] Plan All In Without Foundation
      -[x] Qi Condensation Deployment (+75,000 Qi Condensation disciples for the duration of the war)
      -[x] Elite Deployment (+2 Late Core Formation Elders, +1 Great Circle Elder for the duration of the war)
      -[x] Front Line Deployment
      -[x] Land.
      -[x] Wealth.
      -[x] Core Formation Deployment (+10 Core Formation Elders for the duration of the war)
      -[x] Soups and Spices (Losses among Foundation and above cultivators mitigated during the war).
      -[x] A Favour.
      [X] Plan All In Without Foundation AND We're Assholes
      -[x] Qi Condensation Deployment (+75,000 Qi Condensation disciples for the duration of the war)
      -[x] Elite Deployment (+2 Late Core Formation Elders, +1 Great Circle Elder for the duration of the war)
      -[x] Front Line Deployment
      -[x] Land.
      -[x] Wealth.
      -[x] Core Formation Deployment (+10 Core Formation Elders for the duration of the war)
      -[x] Soups and Spices (Losses among Foundation and above cultivators mitigated during the war).
      [X] Fair Trade
      -[X] Hong Xuan Clan
      --[X] Foundation Establishment Deployment (+1,500 Foundation Establishment Experts for the duration of the war)
      --[X] Core Formation Deployment (+10 Core Formation Elders for the duration of the war)
      --[X] Elite Deployment (+2 Late Core Formation Elders, +1 Great Circle Elder for the duration of the war)
      --[X] Front Line Deployment
      -[X] Boons
      --[X] Land(2).
      --[X] Wealth.
      --[X] Favour.
      -[X] Simmering Soup Sect
      --[X] Core Formation Deployment (+6 Core Formation Elders for the duration of the war)
      --[X] Soups and Spices (Losses among Foundation and above cultivators mitigated during the war).
      [X] This is a unfair trade
      -[X] Hong Xuan Clan
      --[X] Qi Condensation Deployment (+75,000 Qi Condensation disciples for the duration of the war)
      --[X] Core Formation Deployment (+10 Core Formation Elders for the duration of the war)
      --[X] Favour.
      -[X] Simmering Soup Sect
      --[X] Foundation Establishment Deployment (+1,500 Foundation Establishment Experts for the duration of the war)
      --[X] Soups and Spices (Losses among Foundation and above cultivators mitigated during the war).
      [X] This is a unfair trade
      [X] Plan: Keep our cash to bribe the greedy merchants.
      - [X] [HONG] : Nothing (or volontary contributions)
      - [X] [SOUP] : Nothing (or volontary contributions)
    Click to expand...
     
    Raron said:
    Man, people really want to throw all our Wealth away.

    That is 10 Wealth. Enough to raise several new Core Formations. It's something we very much need if we want to regrow to past state. A whole clan working for extra Wealth is half that on avarege, per a turn.

    Let us not cripple ourselves till the next trials by pawning away both our future income and Nascent Soul actions. Wealth and land are forever, relationships are only temporary. We can probably recover from a relationship hit with time. With trials every 5 turns, we need every single piece of Wealth we can get. Land is a smaller priority as long as we don't have important infrastructure on it.

    Land is not that much of a problem if we give a limited about (remember our Array is on that land).

    The world doesn't also function in vacuum. If Hong Xuan clan gets enough wealth, they could in theory (if their Great Circle Elder is talented enough) get a Early Nascent Soul. In that case they run into a problem. They don't actually have enough territory to support a Nascent Soul, meaning they have 2 options. Take more territory or let the Nascent Soul die.

    Considering they border 2 territories which have enough resources to support Nascent Souls, it is either us or Sorrowfull Blacksmith Sect. And well, I'm not liking those odds when we take into account how much in a bad position we are.
    Click to expand...
    Click to shrink...

    I don't think one of our vassals getting an early nascent soul is neccessarily a bad thing. Our sect's land provived enough for many nascent souls in the close past we could supply the ressources in the short term in exchange for favors or military help. Hell, depending on the outcome of the coming wars against the cannibals and perhaps the bees we might even be able to trade them enough land to support a nascent soul themselves (we are all about the win-win).

    It wouldn't be as good as having our own expert, but a second nascent soul to call upon in time of troubles is better than nothing (since we are probably far from raising one of our own).

    Still, I do agree that spending so much on our vassals sending us reinforcements is a huge risk. As stated above, I'd rather expend those ressources on securing Jingsheng's help (else the cannibal might beat us in a bidding war).

    If we can enlist Jingsheng's help, our vassals are somewhat superfluous. If they refuse to help us in exchange for all that we can offer them... ALARM BELLS should be ringing, either they are already in league with our enemies or they intend to strike the loser of our conflict. After all, it's highly suspicious if they don't want to take care our the annoyance that are the cannibals when offered most of the benefits.
     
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