- Location
- Fort Worth, TX
How much of the Iranian oil infrastructure was captured by the US?
History Strikes Back (TNO/TLM ISOT into OTL)
- Thread starter StarMaker764
- Start date
- Timeline Post-1900 Supernatural
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- Tags
- tno isot (isekai)
This is interesting how is the state of the world currently and what is the economy like
obssesednuker
Commander of 10 Million Men
- Location
- In the Kremlin, activating Perimtr.
Judging by the map, most of it honestly. Most of the oil fields are in the center and south of the country and those are solidly in American hands. The problem - as with Iraq - is that the security expenses means turning a profit for the American economy as a whole is a non-starter, even if we ignore that the way all the infrastructure is set-up means funelling that oil past the UAR's AShM batteries along the Persian Gulf. Maybe the US thinks throwing down some pipelines northward can resolve that, but that just makes for EXCELLENT targets for the insurgent cells that the survivors of all those cut-off units are inevitably going to be forming.
Frankly, this is shaping up to be far, far worse than Iraq for the Americans. That was a 'pure insurgency'. This? This is outright going to be like Vietnam: probably a hybrid conventional-guerrilla war with People's Islamic Republic regulars and IRB 'volunteers' taking the role of the PVA while all the insurgent groups the UAR bankrolls acts as the Vietcong... maybe even morphing into something akin to the Polish Home Army pre-Warsaw Uprising or the Taliban in the 2010s as a functional shadow government extension of the PIRI.
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Well they're correct on that front at least.
Oh no.
Those dread words.
Shock therapy.
I think the emergency mental health teams just deployed in Iskandaria after hearing those two words.
Still. We have a nice porous border with the Persian Free Economic Zone. The labour drain should happen nice and quick if we can turn Tabriz into West Berlin.
I don't doubt that the brain drain to the rest of NATO will be swift, which now that I type it, will further worsen conditions in PFEZ and drive more people to rush to PIRI.
Welp. Thank goodness we're experienced with getting refugees into the country, settled, and with an improving quality of life ever since the CAR/FSRD nightmare.
Those dread words.
Shock therapy.
I think the emergency mental health teams just deployed in Iskandaria after hearing those two words.
Still. We have a nice porous border with the Persian Free Economic Zone. The labour drain should happen nice and quick if we can turn Tabriz into West Berlin.
I don't doubt that the brain drain to the rest of NATO will be swift, which now that I type it, will further worsen conditions in PFEZ and drive more people to rush to PIRI.
Welp. Thank goodness we're experienced with getting refugees into the country, settled, and with an improving quality of life ever since the CAR/FSRD nightmare.
- Location
- United States
Huh, I guess the PIRI is sort of West Germany in this case. Just small. Ohhhhh, I see, it makes sense cuz if Donald gets elected, he's gonna build a wall! XD
Iranian wall?
islamic wall?
What do you guys think it'll be called?
- Location
- Northish
Operation Freedom Shield is completed 40 billion dollars over budget and two years late. It does nothing to stop the rafts of desperate refugees and bribes for passage become 65% of the border guards' income.
I think you got this wrong western doctrine is great at peer warfare what with all the preparation for the Cold War, but is limited against asymmetric warfare.
Or is this correct if so could you elaborate?
Also is the blue part of the map of Iran occupied by NATO? And the deeper red/orange Comintern?
- Location
- United States
Western doctrine is good, but it's designed for the Cold War. This is not the Cold War, these are wars of the 21st century and doctrine must adapt. Also, NATO doctrine is pretty good but it does not mean it's perfect. I can't say what is or isn't good about NATO doctrine, I honestly don't know, but it isn't perfect. Nothing is.
It does have limitations, whatever those might be.
UrbanAvena
Stair climber and vertical movement enthusiast
- Location
- In the stairwell and elevator shaft.
I think it is orthogonal to the update as it said "western strategy" not doctrine so it may refer to the chosen strategy of MOAB-ing important Iranian cities.
Doctrine and strategy are related but different things.
Doctrine and strategy are related but different things.
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- Location
- The observable universe
The meetings can be summed up as "extremely awkward and uncomfortable for all parties", and currently the PIRI's ideology is "holy fuck we need aid to survive save me Cairo" thought but as for future developments you will have to wait and see.
Also funny thing is that a lot of the leftist prisoners were there for so long that they didn't even know the Wamda happened so they are getting the double whammy of being suddenly put in power and finding out that a socialist superpower popped up out of thin air.
This will be very relevant later on.
TBC the Iranians didn't open the prisons Willy nilly, in this case it was just to release select political prisoners to cobble up a government acceptable to UAR sensibilities.
The UAR/Comintern still believes that America will make an exception for Iran as a nation bordering a communist superpower, surely they will want to make it into another west Germany or South Korea.
Liberty's Guardian.
Neither became such because the leadership of both was not at all inclined towards submitting to Cairo, no matter what.
Honestly this feels like a stretch going straight into MOABing a nation, just so we can see a parallel between Bush senior in an alternate timeline and this timeline Bush junior. Bush Junior is a massive tool, an aggressive war criminal, and more than a below average idiot. But if he knows what his father did in an alternate timeline with Iceland, and apparently he was horrified by it. It's also not explained why he goes into an extreme move like this. Did he not care that his own father nuked Iceland, why would an image-conscious man like Bush Junior support this? Why would he want to repeat his alternate father's mistake in this timeline with Iran that doesn't even have either the position or the resources to even justify this? It's even explained why it was only used once in U.S. history on a tunnel (although it probably killed two civilians): "Former US military official Marc Garlasco, who served in the George W. Bush administration, said that the US had not previously used the MOAB because of worries that it would inadvertently hurt or kill civilians.".
As matter of fact why doesn't just threaten to MOAB everyone including his own people to stay in power then if he's going to do this. He was already unpopular in the early 2000s, why not just make him a dictator more than he already is, abolish term limits and all that stuff. Why even bother him keeping the country marginally democratic, just have him go full fascist.
This is the problem I have with these timelines. They make the antagonist aggressively violent and idiotic in a way that it really makes you question why these people didn't collapse in reputation earlier or why everyone and their grandma didn't start forming alliance against them from the start. It kills nuance in the story just to push the ideology of whatever the author is selling, and really just pushes you to one side from these scenario just to "prove a point". Honestly kinds of make the whole thing difficult to read.
At this point Bush should be threatening to MOAB anyone, and go over the top again MOAB the world several times over. Just so we can push the world entirely in the UASR camp, so we can have a socialist America by the 2050-70s.
I like this timeline but this is not in Bush Junior character especially if he specifically knows what his father did in the same timeline the UAR was from, and that the UAR expects him to do something similar or only a little less worse (MOAB).
As matter of fact why doesn't just threaten to MOAB everyone including his own people to stay in power then if he's going to do this. He was already unpopular in the early 2000s, why not just make him a dictator more than he already is, abolish term limits and all that stuff. Why even bother him keeping the country marginally democratic, just have him go full fascist.
This is the problem I have with these timelines. They make the antagonist aggressively violent and idiotic in a way that it really makes you question why these people didn't collapse in reputation earlier or why everyone and their grandma didn't start forming alliance against them from the start. It kills nuance in the story just to push the ideology of whatever the author is selling, and really just pushes you to one side from these scenario just to "prove a point". Honestly kinds of make the whole thing difficult to read.
At this point Bush should be threatening to MOAB anyone, and go over the top again MOAB the world several times over. Just so we can push the world entirely in the UASR camp, so we can have a socialist America by the 2050-70s.
I like this timeline but this is not in Bush Junior character especially if he specifically knows what his father did in the same timeline the UAR was from, and that the UAR expects him to do something similar or only a little less worse (MOAB).
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- Location
- Third planet from the star named Sol
- Pronouns
- He/They
Bush hasn't even threatened to nuke anyone though? He used MOABs which highly destructed, but they aren't nukes.
I fixed it thanks.
Chimeraguard
We do deserve to exist.
Hmm, I do feel it would be more realistic for the Bush administration to more just...stubbornly keep pushing men and material into Iran rather than a jump to MOAB.
Find a photogenic victory condition, declare Mission Accomplished even though the fighting hasn't actually stopped, and Iran is a mire for years afterwards because there hasn't really been a proper exit strategy or real plan for how to rebuild Iran into a compliant and stable client state. A further emphasis the great flaw of all of this wasn't the way the war was waged, but that it was waged it all and the greatly flawed grand strategy responsible for making its waging be decided.
A war waged, if not exceptionally, then at least competently enough that it's not an embarrassment (for the US at least.) But also a war that was waged for the wrong reasons, and a war that was waged before anyone truly came up with a coherent and realistic plan for what victory in it would look like.
EDIT: To quote Sun Tzu in how I feel the entire war should be summed up: "Victorious warriors win first and then go to war, while defeated warriors go to war first and then seek to win."
Find a photogenic victory condition, declare Mission Accomplished even though the fighting hasn't actually stopped, and Iran is a mire for years afterwards because there hasn't really been a proper exit strategy or real plan for how to rebuild Iran into a compliant and stable client state. A further emphasis the great flaw of all of this wasn't the way the war was waged, but that it was waged it all and the greatly flawed grand strategy responsible for making its waging be decided.
A war waged, if not exceptionally, then at least competently enough that it's not an embarrassment (for the US at least.) But also a war that was waged for the wrong reasons, and a war that was waged before anyone truly came up with a coherent and realistic plan for what victory in it would look like.
EDIT: To quote Sun Tzu in how I feel the entire war should be summed up: "Victorious warriors win first and then go to war, while defeated warriors go to war first and then seek to win."
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Exactly this feels more what Bush Junior of our world, especially with the knowledge of his father's atrocities in a different world would do. People forget that while Bush wanted to be a great president and was willing to do anything to achieve that status, he was also obsessed with what his image would look like in American textbooks. It's more likely he'd drop a MOAB after he felt like he'd expended all his strategies, and on a target he'd feel like wasn't a target that could hurt civilians (regardless of the fact that the very war is killing civilians). Bush was a horrible person, but he was far too over confident in his country's military to go for a desperate move immediately. He himself doesn't even know what the UASR can do yet militarily (besides tactical nukes) so he wouldn't see what's to fear. This feels like the plot is rushing to him straight to madness, it's two to three chapters too early and he's far too overconfident to become a miniature version of his alternate father yet.
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- Location
- United States
I disagree, looking back on the chapter: A bloody foolish affair pt1, the author stated that the invasion had ground to a crawl. The Turkish front was a stalemate in the same vein as World War 1, the Russians I think, were making progress but slowly, and the Eastern front was also slow. The invasion was supposed to be a Desert Storm lasting no more than a month or so.
With the invasion grinding to a halt and the prospect of a long war, the Bush Administration realized that a long war would sap all support for the war. Anti-war protests were already growing, so Bush had to tip the scales. At this point in the invasion, most of Iran was still under the IRI's control, so Bush decided to drop a MOAB on the government.
I don't think Bush thought that the bombs would do so much collateral damage, nor did he think about the consequences of decapitating the entire government.
You know the situation of the former Theocratic Iranian regime suddenly putting political dissidents and prisoners into power is actually more insane than even its closest analogue, during the formation of Prussia. Basically, Bismarck was relegated to political antartica, and got the position head of government because the king realized that no one competent wanted the job, and anyone who did want the job was more likely to trigger a civil war. But here, this is even more extreme, as the nation is not simply at risk of falling to total anarchy, it is actively being invaded by the imperialistic west. The regime personnel don't even have the luxury of simply throwing the government under the bus as a scape goat, because if the PIRI fails, then its all their heads, both the theocratic inams and the leftist activists.
Please have something like the infamous Chinese Mutiny happen…
Do you mean the Indian mutiny? Where the east India corporation army who were Muslim revolted do to the cartridges made out of pork fat
God I just realized something that is gonna be more confusing. The US did begin operations in Afghanistan with the assistance of Russia, and are still allied with Pakistan who is still supporting these Jihadist groups. And they just turned Iran into a warzone, right when they are still conducting ops in Afghanistan. So they are basically going to war in Iran and Afghanistan, two nations that border each other. But the two different groups would be Left Wing groups in Iran while in Afghanistan its the Islamists that took shelter in Pakistan. Islamists who wouldn't be very appreciative of the Russians and Americans attacking again. At least with the communist PIRI, there is a very clear goal, kick the invaders out of Iran. But with the Americans and the Russians in Iran and Afghanistan, it's just a confusing mess of why they are even in the desert.
It's fascinating to me (in this world yes, but especially our own) that the Marshall Plan was maybe the most successful peacetime international initiative ever undertaken by the United States, and yet that no American politician has ever considered repeating it.
- Pronouns
- They/Them
Blue Helmets: "P-P-Please stop the violence."
International Brigades: "I AM THE VIOLENCE."
UrbanAvena
Stair climber and vertical movement enthusiast
- Location
- In the stairwell and elevator shaft.
Considering Marshall Plan beneficiary were Western White European countries and stated goal of "prevent communism" I guess there lay the reason why. Imperial, Economic, and Racial order restored with US as the hegemon there were no more need for such "bleeding heart" policy as now is the time of plunder.