Hell is other angels

Kind of a canon issue...Don't you have to actually accept some sort of boon from the angel in the coin before it actually can speak to you directly?

Harry didn't have Lash actively in his head until he used Hellfire of his own Free Will.

As long as Hiver holds the coin, the angel can talk to him. And yes, the angel, not the shadow can talk to him. Harry was hearing whispers from the moment he picked up the coin to the point he sealed Lasciel's coin within a circle then buried it under concrete.
 
By the way, is it just me, or did the stopping point seem really abrupt? I mean, it's Hiver, so we won't have to wait long, but still...
 
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"Didn't I tell you to fuck off?"

She tilted her head, her long hair brushing across her shoulder. "You are debating my fate, my Host. Should I not get to give my opinion?"

"No. You are a parasite. A literal hellish parasite. Fuck off."

"Parasite? Oh my host, you got it all wrong. Not parasite. I'm a net positive to my host, I'm a symbiote. Tok'ra, not Goa'uld."

Shaking my head, I rubbed my eyes. "And stay out of my memories, hell bitch."

"Can't. Literally can't."

She actually sounded apologetic about it.

"Fine. What is your opinion on the matter? Oh, let me guess. You want me to keep the coin and use your abilities while you slowly turn me more and more evil until you can take over and wreak havoc on Earth, slaughtering your way through the histories." I snarled at the blurry woman.

The blurry image nodded. "I do think you should keep and use the coin. But not for what you think. Here, allow me." she said and reached out, putting a warm hand across my eyes before I could pull away.

I jerked back and suddenly everything was completely clear. I could see. For the first time since I was four I could see clearly without my glasses.

I looked around before turning back to her. She looked like I thought she looked. Beautiful, petite but with curves, long flowing red hair, pale white skin and deep green eyes. Wearing a very thin white dress that ended mid-thigh and left one shoulder uncovered.

"What did you do!?" I snarled at her.

The fallen angel smiled shyly. "Paying rent, my host."

I swallowed and then shook my head. "Take it back." I said before a thought struck me from what I remembered of the books, "Wait... you can't DO that! I'm not holding the coin!"

Taziel shrugged one shoulder. "I hardly need power for a small trick like that. I'm just unscrambling the image that hits your retina."

That would be just it wouldn't it? Just a little favor at first. It wasn't so bad was it?

Yeah, no.

"You'll have to work a bit harder than that. Take it back."

She took a long deep sigh which did all kinds of interesting things to her chest before she nodded. "As you wish, my host."

My vision turned blurry again.

Closing and rubbing my eyes I walked back to the bed by memory before opening them and tracking down the small reflection of light that was my glasses before putting them on, glaring at the fallen angel. "I thought I told you to fuck off? I have some thinking to do."

"I understand. I will leave you alone, my host. But I know that you are smart enough to want all the information first. I'm in your head, I know who you are. I also know where we are. This town is dangerous for untrained mortals, and you think you know some of what is coming. If I were you, I would like any advantage I could get to survive."

I scowled at her. "So is crossing the street."

Taziel bowed her head for me. "Very well. I understand why you do not trust a word out of my mouth. But I will still give you my word. I swear upon my creator or anything else you wish that every single word I tell you will be the truth. I will never lie to you, my host."

"Fuck off!"

"I will. If you need me, you only need to ask." She said before she was just... gone. Like she was never there in the first place.

Which, of course, she wasn't.

Letting out a breath, I shook my head as I pinched the bridge of my nose. She was right, though. Whatever kind of hell bitch she was, I was clearly still connected to the coin somehow.

So... council or someone else. Who could I possibly trust with this? I knew enough that a Coin is more dangerous than a nuke. They just took longer to do the killing.

Okay. Okay.

Letting out a breath, I rubbed my forehead. I won't find someone it was safe to hand it over to anytime soon. So the order of business was containment and minimizing influence. There was a possible magical link, so I needed to find a way to break that or at least limit it. Then it would be limited to a nagging shade without any magical shenanigans.

I can handle that. I think.

Maybe.

Magic meant learning magic. Which meant in this case... The School Library and the books there. Buffy and monster central, the literal location of the Hellmouth.
The fact that that was the safest option, walking into a place with one of the world's future most powerful witches, a man trained from literal birth to recognize monsters and demons and a Slayer with a fucking Fallen riding along inside my head was just damn wrong.

On top of the Mouth of Hell. Bringing a fallen angel on top of a portal to fucking hell.
Yeah, that's a great idea on the scale of 'let's lick this powerline' or playing 'hug the vampire'.

So that was out. I still needed to go to school but I could probably avoid the library so I didn't get too close. Should maybe be okay.

There was that magic shop downtown I'd passed by a couple of times. What was it called again? Bob's something something magic. It might simply be stage magic, but this being Sunnydale my bet was not.

What did I need... wards against evil, containment...

I needed a pen and paper.




AN// Many thanks to Grey Rook for betaing this part.
 
Wonder if he can even break the link. Isn't she lodged in his head physically presently? Or was it hitching a ride on his soul?
 
Maybe she's a nice Fallen Angel bound to you by a magical cursed object rather than a mean one! Have you ever thought of that, Hiver? Hmmm, well have you? :p Give her a chance, she's nice and pretty! Nothing could go wrong whatsoever, considering you're on a place that deals with the Apocalypse like it's a weekly sale.
 
Wonder if he can even break the link. Isn't she lodged in his head physically presently? Or was it hitching a ride on his soul?
Breaking the link to the coin might reduce her influence, cuz like I commented earlier...if she was just the shadow, she shouldn't be able to do shit like this yet because The SI hasn't accepted her in any way.
 
Maybe she's a nice Fallen Angel bound to you by a magical cursed object rather than a mean one! Have you ever thought of that, Hiver? Hmmm, well have you? :p Give her a chance, she's nice and pretty! Nothing could go wrong whatsoever, considering you're on a place that deals with the Apocalypse like it's a weekly sale.
I'm half-blind in a way that glasses and surgery can't fix - left eye vs. right eye - and there's no way in hell (heh) I would've refused that vision fix. Some things are always worth it.
 
There's probably magic out there that he can use to fix his vision with on his own. Better that than accepting something from a fallen.
 
That coin would be an EXTREMELY potent weapon against a vampire. Sure, it houses a Fallen angel, but Fallen angels are still angels, and that coin represents a very real, very tangible proof of God's existence. Just being in the same room with it could cause a weak vampire to spontaneously combust -- actually touching it? Kakistos? No problemo!

The water in the bottle is not quite holy water for touching that coin but would work almost as well as real holy water against vampires if its occupant decided to make it so.

I believe that in Dresden Files canon, IIRC there was at least one Denarian that Fell purely out of love and kindness -- no evil at all. God ordered that the traitors be shunned, and one angel loved one of them too much to obey, which was also a rebellion against God. So she was cast out too.

Or you could get extra and leave them in likely places. Even just having it on your hands would greatly improve the casual Sunnydale victim's life expectancy.

Given how germophobic Mayor Wilkins was, you could probably get City Hall to sponsor hand sanitizer stations all over town. The Mayor would just be unaware you were having a priest going around blessing them -- for a while at least. :rofl:
 
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I believe that in Dresden Files canon, IIRC there was at least one Denarian that Fell purely out of love and kindness -- no evil at all. God ordered that the traitors be shunned, and one angel loved one of them too much to obey, which was also a rebellion against God. So she was cast out too.

I have two things in response to that.

1: I really doubt that she is the Angel that fell out of love and kindness.
Watch as Hiver makes her the same Angel and prove me wrong.

2: What the Hell is up with the Dresdenverse God?, his entire shtick is that he loves everyone and hopes for redemption of the sinners.
An Angel that loves another Angel even when they've turned against God should only have Fallen if She had helped them against Him, not for not shunning them.
Dick Move Dresdenverse God, Dick Move.
 
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As long as Hiver holds the coin, the angel can talk to him. And yes, the angel, not the shadow can talk to him. Harry was hearing whispers from the moment he picked up the coin to the point he sealed Lasciel's coin within a circle then buried it under concrete.
There's no reason to believe it's the Fallen proper speaking here, unless there's some Word of Jim I'm unaware of saying the Fallen can speak to anyone merely holding the coin. The distinction is rather slim at the moment, but it's more likely the Shadow he's speaking to here.
Breaking the link to the coin might reduce her influence, cuz like I commented earlier...if she was just the shadow, she shouldn't be able to do shit like this yet because The SI hasn't accepted her in any way.
Again, no reason to believe it's the Fallen proper here, the whole point of the Shadow is to get someone to properly accept the coin, and the Fallen. We only have one in-depth example of a host from the inside, and he was capable of things most people aren't. Our sample size is a bit skewed here.
I believe that in Dresden Files canon, IIRC there was at least one Denarian that Fell purely out of love and kindness -- no evil at all. God ordered that the traitors be shunned, and one angel loved one of them too much to obey, which was also a rebellion against God. So she was cast out too.
I have no idea where this came from. It's certainly not in the main books, and sounds more like something a Fallen would say to garner sympathy.

Word of Jim? I don't believe there were any Denarian-focused short stories...
 
If you could get her to make an actual binding Oath about telling the truth, perhaps a Geas, you'd probably be set, honestly.
With every boon she wishes to grant, ask what the consequences would be to you, then do a simple cost-benefit analysis.

Frankly, I feel kinda bad for Taziel here, having to deal with such a prejudiced existencist.
 
What the Hell is up with the Dresdenverse God?, his entire shtick is that he loves everyone and hopes for redemption of the sinners.
An Angel that loves another Angel even when they've turned against God should only have Fallen if She had helped them against Him, not for not shunning them.
Dick Move Dresdenverse God, Dick Move.

Not as dickish as the Bible!God

If you read some of the older ones there are 3 groups of angels.
1) those who sided with God and not Lucifer Morningstar, and remain in heaven

2) those who sided with Lucifer and we're cast into hell / out of heaven and Lucy then forged hell ( again depends on the version you're reading)

& 3) those who sided with neither were cast out from heaven to forever wander the earth
 
So my Pandora decided to give me a couple songs that I feel fit with the story, the question is, which one?

Or
 
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Sometimes the most evil thing you can do is to be kind to every one you meet, and encourage kindness towards others in return.

It's all about perceptions, and preconceptions.
 
If you could get her to make an actual binding Oath about telling the truth, perhaps a Geas, you'd probably be set, honestly.
Nah, treachery is a pretty big Fallen thing/theme, and the Shadow would be the one making the oath anyway. Taziel doesn't have much to lose by letting her Shadow swear and break oaths willy nilly.

They're noted as some of the biggest liars in the setting, only keeping to their word enough that it's still worth something to the supernatural community.
 
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I think you are all forgetting something fairly vitally important from this point on.

He cannot trust his senses anylonger.

Therefore he cannot read a book to learn magic, to stop the fallen, because it doesn't matter what book he reads, it will only show him information the fallen wishes him to have. This basic problem will dog his heals for any attempt he makes.

Call the Vatican? only if the fallen lets him hear or see the actual phone number. Is that phone connected, did it ring? Is there a confused flunky on the line or the Pope? He cannot tell.
 
What's this Shadow thing and how's it different from the Fallen Angel?
It's basically a copy of the Fallen, personality wise, with some of the original's knowledge and power. Very specifically a new, separate entity by DF canon though. It's formed the moment someone makes skin contact with an unattached Denarius.

It's a substantial amount of knowledge and power, too. Useful in many cases, but more often then not, blocked off like a severely restricted MMO trial.

A full subscription is pretty cheap though!!

The whole point of the Shadow is to get its host to take up and wield the coin properly, and start conversing with the Fallen proper. Think of it like that one deep sea fish's (I want to say Anglerfish here, but not certain) lure - all pretty and shiny and tempting but dangling right in front of a jagged, dangerous maw.
 
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That coin would be an EXTREMELY potent weapon against a vampire. Sure, it houses a Fallen angel, but Fallen angels are still angels, and that coin represents a very real, very tangible proof of Christ's existence. Just being in the same room with it could cause a weak vampire to spontaneously combust -- actually touching it? Kakistos? No problemo!
What are you smoking?

The problem is holy objects or imagery, and we see those can be perverted into vamp-friendly gear. That cross that translated Drusilla's get-better spell, defiled churches, etc. If a fucking Fallen Angel doesn't qualify as unholy what the hell does?
 
I will be honest.
As long as it wasn't Uriel, I would probably fall to the coin's temptation /very/ quickly. Especially if I could maintain my free will, even if I had a little angel whispering in my shoulder. Morality? What is that, I have Unlimited Cosmic Powers!

Anyway, watched!
 
That coin would be an EXTREMELY potent weapon against a vampire. Sure, it houses a Fallen angel, but Fallen angels are still angels, and that coin represents a very real, very tangible proof of Christ's existence. Just being in the same room with it could cause a weak vampire to spontaneously combust -- actually touching it? Kakistos? No problemo!

The water in the bottle is not quite holy water for touching that coin but would work almost as well as real holy water against vampires if its occupant decided to make it so.
Not necessarily. In Dresden Files it wasn't the cross so much as the person's faith in it that repelled vampires. If a Vampire came across a cross on the ground, they wouldn't be bothered at all by it, it was only if it was being held by a person who believed in it. Going by that metric, making the coin repel a vampire would mean having to put your faith in it. Which would be bad.

Not sure how Buffy-verse vamps work though.
I believe that in Dresden Files canon, IIRC there was at least one Denarian that Fell purely out of love and kindness -- no evil at all. God ordered that the traitors be shunned, and one angel loved one of them too much to obey, which was also a rebellion against God. So she was cast out too.
Pretty sure we only have the Fallen's word on that. And Harry called bullshit when he heard it. At least if it's the one I'm thinking of.

Citation? We might be thinking of different things, I want to make sure.
What's this Shadow thing and how's it different from the Fallen Angel?
It's a mental fork of the fallen angel downloaded into the host's brainmatter. Due to running on the same physical hardware as the host it isn't nearly as smart as the Fallen proper, and is capable of changing over time if it doesn't resync with the Fallen regularly. It's essentially "programmed" with enough skill and knowledge to entice the host to take up the coin.

The Fallen Angel, by comparison, is a transcendent being as old as the universe as far above a human as a human is above an insect. It can learn from humans in much the same way entomologists can learn from insects, but it's philosophy, character, and nature are too ancient and complex to be comprehended and changed by mere mortals.

There has been one case of a Shadow betraying the angel it came from after realizing it had been too long, and it had diverged too much from the original for a resync to be anything other than death. But its host had been carrying it around in his head for about a decade at that point, so it's not something that happens easily.
 
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