Hell is other angels

That earned a humorless snort."Yeah, right. Like it would take something as small as the end of the world to release one of us. When the Creator said 'bound for eternity' he meant it. When the last black hole evaporates, the last proton turns into random energy and the universe finally reaches absolute vacuum and zero temperature, there in the void there will still be thirty silver coins floating. Forever."
Maybe in Dresden, but I can think of a couple beings in Buffy that could probably do it.

And that's not even counting the possibilities of the different magic system.

He didn't look too happy as he frowned."My name is Whistler. You fucked up, kid."
I vote you slam the door in his face and tell him to take his bullshit elsewhere.
 
There was actually an interesting idea that someone came up with once.

The Powers That Be are actually demons of a sort. The reason they pull this whole 'balance' BS is so humanity/the good guys never get strong or organized enough to drive them out. And at the same time ensuring that the various entities higher up the demonic food chain/pecking order can't get to earth and wipe them out.
 
The Powers That Be are actually demons of a sort. The reason they pull this whole 'balance' BS is so humanity/the good guys never get strong or organized enough to drive them out. And at the same time ensuring that the various entities higher up the demonic food chain/pecking order can't get to earth and wipe them out.
Given it was Humanity on it's own who kicked out and otherwise wrecked the Old One's in Buffy the answer to that is very likely yes.

Same reason they probably work to fuck over human magic users by actively hiding the supernatural from the general populace.

Heck some of the most powerful beings encountered in Angel were human mages. :lol
 
There was actually an interesting idea that someone came up with once.

The Powers That Be are actually demons of a sort. The reason they pull this whole 'balance' BS is so humanity/the good guys never get strong or organized enough to drive them out. And at the same time ensuring that the various entities higher up the demonic food chain/pecking order can't get to earth and wipe them out.
Also known as canon. They are of Illyrias species(or closely related). Instead of being put away, they fled to higher dimensions before the old ones were driven to near extinction.
 
Yeah my head canon is the PTB get mislabeled as good guys simple because they seem to always be helping the good guys and that is only because so many bastards want to initiate their own apocalypse which ruins the neutrality of Earth. As for why Earth is so important well it can't be humanity since we see them imported to other dimensions like Pylea so perhaps it is in a cosmic sweetspot of the multiverse that allows easy travel between dimensions sort of like taking highway verses back roads.
 
Also known as canon. They are of Illyrias species(or closely related). Instead of being put away, they fled to higher dimensions before the old ones were driven to near extinction.
Huh. I admit my BtVS knowledge is fairly spotty so I'd figured that it was a fanaouther's "Oh come on, the angels/forces of good cannot be this ******ing stupid. There has to be a better explanation."
 
Huh. I admit my BtVS knowledge is fairly spotty so I'd figured that it was a fanaouther's "Oh come on, the angels/forces of good cannot be this ******ing stupid. There has to be a better explanation."

Honestly, the Buffy setting only makes sense if for some reason the proper angels are barred from entering the world.
 
a short man in a hat stand outside.

For about 1.5 seconds I read this as "a short man in a hatstand outside" instead of a short man in a hat standing outside.
Edit:
Also known as canon. They are of Illyrias species(or closely related). Instead of being put away, they fled to higher dimensions before the old ones were driven to near extinction.

Except for Cordelia, who ascended as well. Or possibly swapped places with the rot monster that made world peace through brainwashing. Presumably some other people throughout time have made it up there as well.
 
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No, they fell at the beginning of time, Denarii (the coins) were first minted in 211 BC. The thirty used to pay Judas must be younger than that.
No, they were created at the beginning of time, well some of might have been the more we learn about the setting the more uncertain that claim actually becomes.

However the fall was at the date you stated since that was when they were stuck in the coins.
 
The Fallen are not inside the coins. They are somewhere in the Nevernever, just like every other supernatural critter. The blackened denarii are a prison that limits the degree to which the Fallen are allowed to influence the world.

The key world here is "allowed." All the Fallen are capable of influencing the world without using their coin. For example, Lashiel is the one who whispered in Dresden's ear during Changes. However, in doing so she overreached and allowed Uriel to respond.


Personally, I think the coins are justice. The Fallen, like Taziel, sought the Free Will given to humanity. Taziel is lying by omission because I do not believe that either she nor any of the Fallen sought *only* free will, but technically that is part of it.

The coins were their choice. Uriel has said on multiple occasions that he cannot provide all the answers because that would interfere with free will. Remember that free will is about "why," not "what. It can only exist when one's influence is limited. Otherwise your choice is about optimizing results rather than the means by which results are achieved.

The Fallen seized free will without understanding what that meant. They were "punished" because an angel's grace and free will are mutually exclusive. Also because they are evil little fuckers, but so are a lot of people.
 
So, for someone with only a vague knowledge about the Buffy-verse lore, who is the Whistler? And why is his presence important?
 
So, for someone with only a vague knowledge about the Buffy-verse lore, who is the Whistler? And why is his presence important?
IIRC, Whistler (no 'the') is a balance demon, meaning that he's on The Powers That Be's payroll. He's a troubleshooter who works to keep the plans and prophecies of the Powers on rails, which means that he's probably either here to kill Hiver or recruit him to undo the damage that the attack did to the plan the Powers had for Angel.

Of course, it has been quite a while since I last watched the series, so I could be wrong.
 
Also known as canon. They are of Illyrias species(or closely related). Instead of being put away, they fled to higher dimensions before the old ones were driven to near extinction.
I'm really hoping that he knows this and kills off Whistler instead of making any deals or anything.

While it might not have been as big of an issue in Buffy-canon, all the different fanfics and whatnot that try and pander to the Powers That Be is just such a turn off. To the point that I'm pretty much against most everything that involves them.

I'm really hoping that he just decides to go total Doomguy route and kill all the demons. Forget trying to plan around what is 'supposed' to happen and pander to the demons' plans and goals and just blaze your own trail.
 
No, they were created at the beginning of time, well some of might have been the more we learn about the setting the more uncertain that claim actually becomes.

However the fall was at the date you stated since that was when they were stuck in the coins.
Gunna ask for a citation on that, as before, or shortly after the creation of man was the timeline on the fall in everything I've read. Seeing as there was a fallen in the garden in the form of the serpent.
 
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Whistler. That sounded familiar, somehow.

"Balance demon, My Host. Working for the Powers That Be." Taziel whispered into my ear. "You can trust him to some extent, I have met him before. Whatever they are, they are not known to randomly betray you."

Yeah. Sure. Your endorsement is really valuable for me.

Even so, her reminder did get my memory working. He was the one who sent Angel to Sunnydale in the first place.

"If you think I'm going to invite a demon into my place, you have another thing coming. Balance demon or not." I said and showed the gun without pointing it in his direction.

Whistler looked less than impressed. "Look, kid. Either you talk to me or the slayer gets visions of somebody possessed by a fallen angel. How's things hanging by the way, Taziel?"

Buffy that was already out of balance from seeing me blow up her former boyfriend.

I clenched my jaw for a second before unhooking the chain of the door and stepping back, allowing it to swing open. "Can I get you some tea?"

"Thanks, that would be great." the demon said as he wandered inside, looking around. "Man, this place looks even smaller from the inside."

Flicking the safety onto the gun, I put it into the rear of my belt before moving towards the small kitchen unit to get some water boiling, keeping my eyes on the demon at all times.

"Kid, relax. I have been shot in the past, it didn't take. If I wanted to rip your face off, your gun wouldn't stop me."

"No, but a bullet to the face might slow you down enough for me to get away."

He looked thoughtful and then nodded. "Might, actually. Fair enough."

"Why are you here and what do you want?"

Whistler sank down by the small table and took his hat off, putting it on the table as he leaned back against the chair. "You fucked up quite a few fates today. The entire thing with the chaos sorcerer was one thing. Stuff like that happens and things were poked back on track easily enough, no hard feelings. But you had to go blow Angelus up, didn't you?"

I didn't have much to say about that. He was right, after all.

"The Powers wanted you killed before you messed even more up." He continued. "I talked them into allowing me to talk to you first. See if there is any way to solve this."

Oh boy. Great. I had attracted the direct and hostile attention of a bunch of gods. Fuck everything.

"What do you want?"

"You want it straight? Work for us and fix what you have messed up or we stick the slayer on you. Slayers." Whistler said with a shrug.

"You would have stopped me in the first place. Who put me here anyway!?"

He shook his head. "No idea, kid. You were not even on the radar until you iced the chaos sorcerer. You were still thought unimportant and I was in Japan on business so I couldn't check things out anyway. It was only when you derailed a couple of dozen prophecies when it was important enough to pull me out. You just killed a peace treaty twenty years in the making between a pair of Oni tribes, by the way. Thanks for that. Intercontinental portal work is not exactly cheap either."

I just stared at the water that refused to boil for a long moment before I looked at the demon. "...What do you want from me?"

"You killed Angel. You take over his stuff in Los Angeles." Whistler said rather bluntly. "That's a year and a half from now. Right now, priority one is to get you the hell out of Sunnydale at the very least. We'll let you know if we need you before then."

"Where would I go?"

"We don't care as long as it's not LA or Sunnydale. In fact, I would advice that you stay away from the west coast entirely, just to be safe. The chance that you will fuck something else major up is limited as long as you do and we might still be able to fix this before the world ends." He said and frowned. "Taziel, tell him that he should listen to us."

"I'm not listening to it, why would I listen to you?"

"Because otherwise, you die before you can mess something else up."

Taziel appeared next to me. "My Host, may I borrow your mouth? I need to speak to him."

"No, fuck off." I said and looked at her before turning back to Whistler. "What is this, kick the mortal day? Like my life isn't bad enough already!?"

Whistler actually smirked. "Any day is kick the mortal day in Sunnydale. But the fact remains that you made your bed, now you have to sleep in it. You got involved, now you are involved."

"...What about money, my things. I don't have anything."

"I'll drive you to the bus and buy you a ticket. Anything else is up to you. Maybe the money will continue showing up in your account and maybe it won't. Not our problem."

I looked down at the pot. The water had started to boil.

Whistler sighed. "Look... I know it's a really sucky deal. What's happened to you is bottom tier scum levels of unfair. But reality is what it is and I'm sorry to say that it's the best one you are going to get..."

Staying quiet, I poured the water and dropped the bags in. On top of everything else, the tea here sucked. Brilliant.

"...At least from our side of the fence." he finished before allowing the silence after that stretch out.

I wasn't entirely sure what to say about that. "The other side... they know about me?" I finally asked as I put the cups on the table.

"Not yet, as far as we know. Well, other than the obvious one. Only a matter of time, though, especially when you are involved. Killing the Judge and Angelus? Kinda get a guy some reputation on its own. Keep your head down and you might be able to stay off the infernal radar, at least until we need you in LA."

I slowly sank down in the opposite chair to rest my head against my hands. "...How long until I have to leave?"

"You have until I finish my cup to pack." He said before he shrugged, "Sorry kid. We are kinda in a hurry to catch the last bus out of here."




AN// Many thanks to Grey Rook for betaing this section. Double feature friday!
 
Tragically, he's still letting Taziel define him. Pushing so hard at "don't let her steer me" that the need to be contrary is, itself, steering him.
 
Pesky demons trying to derail a ROB. They must have never met one of them before... And the Rob won't even have to try, he can simply make the bus stop working, the train break down, all flights delayed etc... He ain't leaving no bloody west coast buahahahahahaha.
 
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