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Halkegenia Online Thread 22 - Kill Sheffield Vol. 2

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Draggon73 said:
If I was on Tristain's Fleet Commander place, than the Albion's Fleet Compartment attacking Freelia would be my logical target. Pin the ships between your fleet and Freelia's cannons and they are toast. Freelia is the worst target to attack because it's an island small enough to be covered by city's artillery so how do you land there without heavy losses ala Omaha beach?
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Most of the guns are pointing out to sea from what I remember.

So just fly over the city at an altitude the cannons can't reach. Drop some explosives as you travel over for flavor. Then land your troops in Tristian and have them approach from the under-defended side of the city.


Nicholai said:
12 hours at the closest point, right? Albion does move around.
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12 hours when it was at mid point and getting closer to Tristian as they traveled if I remember right.
 
Vaermina said:
Most of the guns are pointing out to sea from what I remember.

So just fly over the city at an altitude the cannons can't reach. Drop some explosives as you travel over for flavor. Then land your troops in Tristian and have them approach from the under-defended side of the city.
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They will be forced to cross a water channel between the Island and the mainland then. I hope they bring a lot of rowboats or at least axes and saws to build rafts and pontons.:) Still very difficult and dangerous task for them. At least there is a denze forest on the mainland with a lot of trees.:p (and Mobs:p:p)
 
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Think this could topple the apparent fanfiction word count record of almost 4 million words? Or just a crazy dream?
 
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Blinded said:
Well… For now he would wait and listen, and if there was more to the Faeries of ALfheim than the Good Lord's office had said and they were indeed as terrible abd powerful as his old friend's Master, a Knight stationed at York during the Tristanians' attack had said, well, good thing his predecessor had given him the secret recipe for that one medicine just in case.
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When in doubt ensure the good master can't join the Light Brigade due to (induced) illness?;)
 
Vaermina said:
Most of the guns are pointing out to sea from what I remember.

So just fly over the city at an altitude the cannons can't reach. Drop some explosives as you travel over for flavor. Then land your troops in Tristian and have them approach from the under-defended side of the city.
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Um, trying to fly over Freelia - a city that hosts the Faerie equivalent of Dragon Knights isn't a great path to victory. The high-altitude bombing idea might work, but it also requires you to either have surprise or decimate the entire "tamed dragon air force" before you'll be able to pull it off without staggering losses. The Fae live in that city. Their friends and family are in it. Look up what British pilots were willing to do during the Battle of Britain in WW2 sometime.

It also doesn't address the fact that Fae Dragon Knights are artillery pieces, not fast attack creatures.

It would be better / easier to make a two-pronged attack over the course of the battle. Have one set of ships at a lower altitude attacking as normal. Then have a second, higher set that begins moving toward "prime bombing position" at irregular intervals. The Fae will have to send some of their Dragon Knights up to engage the higher forces. That's going to be quite tiring for the dragons, I expect. Repeat a few times and you can wear them down.
 
I'd assume wind mages make bombing not a very feasible strategy unless done by surprise, that or come up with a good explanation for why Reconquista couldn't have done the same to Newcastle when there weren't even any ships to defend it.
 
Draggon73 said:
They will be forced to cross a water channel between the Island and the mainland then. I hope they bring a lot of rowboats or at least axes and saws to build rafts and pontons.:) Still very difficult and dangerous task for them. At least there is a denze forest on the mainland with a lot of trees.:p (and Mobs:p:p)
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They have mages, they can just have them raise the river bed and walk through.


Nicholai said:
Um, trying to fly over Freelia - a city that hosts the Faerie equivalent of Dragon Knights isn't a great path to victory. The high-altitude bombing idea might work, but it also requires you to either have surprise or decimate the entire "tamed dragon air force" before you'll be able to pull it off without staggering losses. The Fae live in that city. Their friends and family are in it. Look up what British pilots were willing to do during the Battle of Britain in WW2 sometime.
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The Fae Dragons are slower and less agile then Halk dragons. So would they be a threat to prepared ships with anti dragon munitions?
 
Vaermina said:
The Fae Dragons are slower and less agile then Halk dragons. So would they be a threat to prepared ships with anti dragon munitions?
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:Citation Needed:
Fae are slower then Halk Dragons but no where is it stated Fae Dragons are.

Also again Terrian reforming like that is not common and is not mentioned even in places where they would help.
The Lake Spirit for example pull it on land then reform the lake edges to better cut it off yet this plan is not mentioned at all.
 
Vaermina said:
The Fae Dragons are slower and less agile then Halk dragons. So would they be a threat to prepared ships with anti dragon munitions?
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Can you state where it is said that Fae Dragons are slower since I know that the Fae themselves are slower but I am not sure about the dragons.

Granted I know about the wind dragons being somewhat faster but isn't the majority of Reconquista's dragons Fire Dragons which are about the same speed as ALO dragons as I recall also the only wind dragon that was fielded by Reconquista was the one used by Wardes.
 
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Vaermina said:
They have mages, they can just have them raise the river bed and walk through.
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Freelia has mages as well, they can sunk the channel bed back down as easily. Or turn it into sandpitts.




Vaermina said:
The Fae Dragons are slower and less agile then Halk dragons. So would they be a threat to prepared ships with anti dragon munitions?
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You do not endanger your ships keel if you can help it! One good hit by enemy spell or cannon and the ship is out of fight. Also they will be required to fly pretty low if they want to hit something with their bombs (not to mention, that Fae or Halk mages can snipe the bombs and detonate them in the air - one Wall of Fire and your attack is stopped). it would be better to threw anvils on the city - they are not so easy to destroy or threw out of course by wind magic.:)
 
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Vaermina said:
The Fae Dragons are slower and less agile then Halk dragons. So would they be a threat to prepared ships with anti dragon munitions?
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Halkegenian dragon (riding) breathes fire at a ship. The ship is scorched and might have problems with their flammable materials. These are "flamethrower" type dragons.
or
ALO dragon (riding) breathes fire at a ship. That ship is going to have chunks blown out of it. These are "artillery" type dragons.

Halkegenian dragon (riding) gets shot. It will be at least moderately injured. The dragon's scales are relatively thin, being that the dragon is "built" for speed and not absorbing damage
or
ALO dragon (riding) gets shot. It will take minimal damage unless the bullet strikes a critical point (eyes, ears, nostrils, et cetera.) The dragon's scales are relatively thick, designed to withstand the punishment a super-Fae-ly strong melee combatant can dish out for at least a limited amount of time.

You are trying to compare fighter-interceptors with heavy bombers, Vaer. They aren't the same. They don't work the same way. They won't use the same tactics.

Another note - last I checked there weren't many dragons involved in Dunkirk on the Tristanian / Fae side of the battle. The Albionese navy might not know exactly how much "impact" they need to put down an ALO dragon. Until they do, they're going to be using munitions designed to hurt their own, fast-attack type dragons.

To be fair, however, consider that the Faerie riders aren't going to be (natively) as armored or protected as their dragons. It is entirely possible that the anti-dragon munitions will kill / dismount the Fae riders. (Or the Fae are wearing basic combat gear for fighting other Fae.. which means they'll have decent odds of survival. Fae spells being "artillery" type more often than not..)
 
iemand said:
I think he's right about that one. I also seem to remember TH stating that Fae dragons are stronger but slower and less agile than Halk dragons, not sure whether it is in story or in a thread somewhere.
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I doubt it.
Fae arent that much slower then the Wind dragons from I remember.
Making the heavy armored Dragon you just spent like a week taming and armoring slower then what you can do is not a good idea.
It means the Dragon loses ability because the Fae can out run the dragons.
So from a game play point they would need to be faster or the same speed as Fae.
Also Fire Dragons the bulk of Albion forces are more or less the same speed as the Fae themselves from what I recall.

But if you can find that quote it would help.
 
Nicholai said:
To be fair, however, consider that the Faerie riders aren't going to be (natively) as armored or protected as their dragons. It is entirely possible that the anti-dragon munitions will kill / dismount the Fae riders. (Or the Fae are wearing basic combat gear for fighting other Fae.. which means they'll have decent odds of survival. Fae spells being "artillery" type more often than not..)
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If I remember it corectly the Cait Sith Dragoons are heavily armored lancers using artilery type of spells themself in addition to the Dragons natural attack. So they are as tough if not tougher than the draggons themself.
 
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Triggerhappy said:
I'm thinking that Reconquista will try a few major thrusts all at once with the objective of knocking out a few of the Faeries 'strongholds' before thy can be fully fortified.

So Freelia Cadenza and Sylvain are in the crosshairs to try and assault before winter with ambitions of pinning Tau To and Gaddan (no I can't stop laughing at those last two either)
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Isn't Gaddan a little unrealistic, considering it, Domeeska, and Orlein are almost directly opposite of Albion? I would think they'd be looking more to Tau To and Goubinu as what few spies they have left in Tristan have probably informed them those are the two production Fae cities.

I figure they'll be repelled at Freelia and Sylvain but be permitted to mostly take Cadenza as the city is very poorly defensible and securing the area as far afield as Tarbes. (This will become their main foothold and will likely be the sight of a counter attack with possible help from Germania to drive them off)
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I always figured Cadenza would fall. Though taking even the least defensible of Fae city should be a fight, given Music Magic is likely going to be hell on both man and dragon (if Music Magic gets stronger as a band with a conductor, what would a potential orchestra do?).

More importantly it should be the point when the threat of Reconquista really hits home for the Fae and shores up their fighting spirit as a people.

I remember when my school's track and field was vandalized by a rival school before a football game. Guess which school was too pissed to loose?

The culmination of this will be the begining of winter possibly starting with a counter attack to grab a foothold on Albion before bunkering down for winter.

Then I can do the jotunhim arc like the present beach arc.
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It all sounds good, but I'd really advise leaving Germania out of it till the invasion of Albion. It would play better to have Tristan be able to fully stand up to one of the major powers without direct aid from anyone else in what would probably be the first time in it's history, and see it as a sign of the Fae's contribution to the smaller nation, than any of the other foreign powers.
 
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Draggon73 said:
Freelia has mages as well, they can sunk the channel bed back down as easily. Or turn it into sandpitts.
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Albion will have their highest ranked and highest skilled mages in their attack. To do what you described the Tristian mages would need to be both more powerful and skilled then their Albion counterparts.


Nicholai said:
Halkegenian dragon (riding) breathes fire at a ship. The ship is scorched and might have problems with their flammable materials. These are "flamethrower" type dragons.
or
ALO dragon (riding) breathes fire at a ship. That ship is going to have chunks blown out of it. These are "artillery" type dragons.
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Halk fire dragons breath flame hotter then even a square class Fire Mage can generate. (TSS)

Halkegenian dragon (riding) gets shot. It will be at least moderately injured. The dragon's scales are relatively thin, being that the dragon is "built" for speed and not absorbing damage
or
ALO dragon (riding) gets shot. It will take minimal damage unless the bullet strikes a critical point (eyes, ears, nostrils, et cetera.) The dragon's scales are relatively thick, designed to withstand the punishment a super-Fae-ly strong melee combatant can dish out for at least a limited amount of time.
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Grapeshot is not something normally considered just a bullet. They are balls of iron about an inch in diameter. o_O

Also you are confusing the lightly scaled Wind Dragons with the thickly scaled Fire Dragons.
 
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How hot is square class fire magic? Out of curiosity since I don't recall the exact temps stated

Preferable in degrees Celsius
 
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Vaermina said:
Albion will have their highest ranked and highest skilled mages in their attack. To do what you described the Tristian mages would to be both more powerful and skilled then their Albion counterparts.
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Sadly Tristain has more mages and than you should count with Cait Sith mages as well. If Tristain has some advantage, it is their number of mages, there should be as much of them as in all Albion despite the Albion beeing biger and their population beeing higher. Also the civil war took its toll on the magical population of Albion - it is probably the lowest in decades.
 
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Blinded said:
-Reconquista blustering
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Geez, these guys seem so eager to run straight into a meatgrinder. These guys' "facts" about Faeries are so off the mark it's like watching an Abridged series. I guess that's what happens when you use propaganda to plan an offensive instead of the ACTUAL facts of what the enemy is like. If these guys are representative of the average Reconquista officers(not counting The Most Interesting Man on Albion, of course) then the Reconquistadores are gonna be in for a BIG, not to mention very PAINFUL, surprise when they make their big attack.

revanninja said:
I doubt it.
Fae arent that much slower then the Wind dragons from I remember.
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IIRC, Leafa overtook a wind dragon to capture its rider as part of the big dragnet operation sweeping up the various conspirators post-Gala
 
Nicholai said:
Halkegenian dragon (riding) gets shot. It will be at least moderately injured. The dragon's scales are relatively thin, being that the dragon is "built" for speed and not absorbing damage
or
ALO dragon (riding) gets shot. It will take minimal damage unless the bullet strikes a critical point (eyes, ears, nostrils, et cetera.) The dragon's scales are relatively thick, designed to withstand the punishment a super-Fae-ly strong melee combatant can dish out for at least a limited amount of time.
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There is also the fact that ALO dragons are strong enough to wear heavy armor during combat making them even tougher.

But in regards to comparing Halk to ALO dragons TH spoke up about it a long time ago:
The Tristanain's have one description for Cait Syth Dragons. Flying Blast Furnace.

They're slower, smaller, and physically stouter than Halkegenian dragons, less intelligent, and all around more vicious, but they're also way the hell tougher, have endurance on par with a Fire Dragon, and can manage to carry a very heavily armored rider with capacity left over to armor at least their front for assaults. These guys are the A-10 Warthogs of Dragons.

Which reminds me. They're dead in a straight up fight against a Halk dragon in a dogfight, but don't let them catch you at mid range with their breath attacks or the troops on the ground are going to be eating Freelian Fried Dragon for dinner.
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Draggon73 said:
Sadly Tristain has more mages and than you should count with Cait Sith mages as well. If Tristain has some advantage, it is their number of mages, there should be as much of them as in all Albion despite the Albion beeing biger and their population beeing higher. Also the civil war took its toll on the magical population of Albion - it is probably the lowest in decades.
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Given that Tristain always had shittons of mages for it's population, and that they then gained 60,000 more mages, I would say that quantity of their troops that use magic of some form is one area tristain will probably always have the advantage.
 
So if you use Halk Dragons as a screen and send Fae Dragons to the Airships those Airships are going down.

So STILL a bad idea to over fly a Fae City since you will get a large chunk of your fleet taken out by the defenses.

Wouldnt surprise me if the Fae Dragons are also used as Launching platforms for the Faes.
If a Dragon can be both Armored and carry a heavily armored Fae then using them as Height Platforms to conserve Wing time makes sense.
 
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