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You can. You just have to work a bit on it normally so Lirra can understand why she does things like this, then it's leveled like a regular skill. Simply using it enough can change it to a general skill.
Gravedigger Quest
- Thread starter Renu
- Start date
- Original Fantasy
- Location
- The state of Paranoia
Battle Tactics sounds like a pretty useful skill to have in a team.
Nottheunmaker
Altman be praised
- Location
- USG Ishimura
Hmm, and we can spend Echos on skills we've learn normally right? Would that turn them into Inherited skills?
NaanContributor
Provider of delicious flatbread, and nothing else.
- Location
- Hawaii
Honestly just about everything sounds useful in some way, which shows how well put together the upgrade system is. I think that the only things that we could easily put off (but not reject entirely) are the Magic theory stuff (and even that might lead to actual useful spells, so maybe not) and the Performance skills.
For Violence we'll probably want basic skills in sword and shield to complete the knight loadout, at least one ranged weapon, and whatever else people want to dabble in before settling on a main weapon to focus on.
For Wistful everything other than Forge will increase our healing abilities to keep our teammates alive, while novice Forge might help us to at least maintain our armor and weapons once we get some.
For Lost increasing Stealth is generally useful, as is Barter and the Etiquettes. Don't think Lirra would like Larceny, but it might apply to opening locks in Dungeons?
Obsessed doesn't have many options, but they might branch into more knowledge trees, especially if Magical theory unlocks actual spells. Otherwise getting Lirra's literacy high enough for her to write properly is a good investment.
And of course, Faded echoes provide general knowledge, miscellaneous everyday skills, and our basic stats, so we'll always have something we want to spend them on. BTW @Renu you mentioned including a Riding Skill earlier but I don't see it in the shop. Is it a Violent or Faded skill?
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- Location
- The state of Paranoia
However, our teammates are responsible for most of the other things (healing, magic, talking, etc.). Even the tanking stuff can be done by Melkorka in a pinch. The main thing that we can contribute to the party that isn't redundant is Battle Tactics, since no one else will be likely to learn those.
Of course, I do agree that we should get really good at healing even if it is redundant. We need to be able to patch our teammates up so we don't have to dig them up.
SolipsistSerpent
Endlessly Devouring
Theoretically. But since our job is Fighter, we should probably prioritize things that aid our physical violence skills when possible. Battle tactics is not a bad idea at all, but don't underestimate the power to stab things dead and the power to stop things from killing us.
NaanContributor
Provider of delicious flatbread, and nothing else.
- Location
- Hawaii
Yeah, but the kind of echoes we randomly acquire determine the type of skills we can buy. Violence upgrades may be the most relevant for our chosen class, but we still have to buy other skills with the other echoes we get.However, our teammates are responsible for most of the other things (healing, magic, talking, etc.). Even the tanking stuff can be done by Melkorka in a pinch. The main thing that we can contribute to the party that isn't redundant is Battle Tactics, since no one else will be likely to learn those.
Of course, I do agree that we should get really good at healing even if it is redundant. We need to be able to patch our teammates up so we don't have to dig them up.
We're also not guaranteed to have the same party members all the time, and each character has their own specialties and weaknesses. For example, none of our previous party members were a proper healer, which is why Chloe almost died.
There's also a use for having overlapping skills, such as if the enemy ganks your White Mage, and you're forced to heal your healer. Or if you're a warrior who also knows how to sneak, you can backup your Ranger in scouting the enemies instead of sending them into danger alone.
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Horse riding is a faded skill. Having it high enough unlocks the Violent jousting and horseback archery skills.
For the "what to take" discussion, remember what best teacher Al-Wahid said.
Finally remember that you're free to ask for skills that aren't in the list. I'll tell you if they're locked or if I just didn't think about it.
- Location
- The state of Paranoia
So, focus on whatever combat build we want, but make sure that it's effective enough by the end of 2 months to keep our party alive while everything goes to pieces?
Are we assuming that the surprise is that they're going to let the graveyard get zombified, or does anyone have any other ideas for what it could be?
If the surprise is the graveyard getting zombified, that's going to be really awkward (read: hilarious) if we manage to nom everything in there first. Maybe it's just that they let down the wards completely in the middle of the night, so that the graveyard is supposed to rise up as well as having to deal with shades and other nasties?
Edit:
Can we use shields with spears, or do we need to use something smaller like a sword for that?
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- Pronouns
- They/Them
Yes, you can.
- Location
- The state of Paranoia
Then I'd like to suggest that we prioritize getting shield training next, rather than focusing on weapons training. If we can use shields with various different weapons it doesn't matter as much what weapon(s) we specialize in later, we will still benefit from being good with shields. Plus having a shield seems like a good way to protect our allies. Our role in the party is preventing nasties from getting to the squishies, and one way to do that is to put ourselves (and our shield) between the two. Admittedly, it's also helpful to be able to remove the nasties entirely, but we have 2 months to work on that.
SolipsistSerpent
Endlessly Devouring
I agree.
So, I think that, barring something changing, the next few things we should focus on are:
Violent-- Shield (because it would help us stay alive)
Wistful-- Forge (because it might enable field repair)
Lost-- Barter (so we don't get ripped off as much)
Obsessed-- Basic Magical Theory (just so we have an idea how our magical allies and enemies do things)
Faded-- Perception (because it would help prevent ambushes, pickpockets, etc)
Not all of these need to be raised more than once, a lot of them were picked to try and grab some low-hanging fruit.
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(if you already want to start planning, the dice gods have decided you'd get 8 violent, 11 wistful, 12 lost, 13 obsessed and 7 faded echoes this update)
(yes, the dice gods really wanted you to pick another Gate apparently)
(yes, the dice gods really wanted you to pick another Gate apparently)
SolipsistSerpent
Endlessly Devouring
Well, it's not like Lirra made this decision because it was practical.
NaanContributor
Provider of delicious flatbread, and nothing else.
- Location
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So I guess that makes Shield Mastery (novice) an easy purchase.
Otherwise we could get both of the Theoretical Healings, or Alchemy so we can make our own simple remedies to go with our First Aid skill. While Forge might let us maintain equipment, we don't exactly have any equipment of our own to take care of yet.
We can get Barter and both Etiquettes for Lost.
Magical Theory (basic) is all we can afford with Obsessed.
Not enough Faded for a stat boost unfortunately, so we can either save them or get a couple of General Knowledge or general skills. Hunting and Cooking perhaps? Don't have to worry about food as long as we're in the Academy though... @Renu how many Faded echoes does the Riding skill cost? It's still not in the shop on the character sheet.
Otherwise we could get both of the Theoretical Healings, or Alchemy so we can make our own simple remedies to go with our First Aid skill. While Forge might let us maintain equipment, we don't exactly have any equipment of our own to take care of yet.
We can get Barter and both Etiquettes for Lost.
Magical Theory (basic) is all we can afford with Obsessed.
Not enough Faded for a stat boost unfortunately, so we can either save them or get a couple of General Knowledge or general skills. Hunting and Cooking perhaps? Don't have to worry about food as long as we're in the Academy though... @Renu how many Faded echoes does the Riding skill cost? It's still not in the shop on the character sheet.
- Pronouns
- They/Them
It's a standard skill, so 5 for the first rank.
(ah, and you're not forced to spend your echoes as soon as you get them, if you don't want magical theory)
NaanContributor
Provider of delicious flatbread, and nothing else.
- Location
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Thanks. And I know, was just saying that it's all we can afford right now. And we'll probably want it anyway, since it's the most likely way to unlock spells.
SolipsistSerpent
Endlessly Devouring
Even if it just lets us determine what spells enemies are using, it'd be worth it.
So, I went back and checked what's available at the Shop right now. With that and the QM's confirmation on how many echoes we're getting and how much Riding costs, here's what I think we should get;
Violent: Shield. Definitely shield. Worst case scenario, we can (probably) stick it on Lirra's back and use it to block attacks from behind.
Wistful: Either Alchemy (so we can make healing potions and salves, as was suggested above) or Scientific Healing Theory (so that we don't accidentally apply Worst Aid by not knowing how people react to these things) and maybe Magical Healing Theory (since we have the points for it if we don't take Alchemy, and because potions might fall under this category instead of Scientific Healing).
Lost: Barter (so we don't get ripped off, as suggested above). I'm also tempted to for for dancing, just because, but that is entirely optional at the moment, and our points would probably be better spent on a higher rank in Stealth or Barter once we've saved enough up.
Obsessed: Magical Theory. It's the only thing we can afford right now, and as has been pointed out, it's probably how we unlock Magic.
Faded: Riding (handy to know even without Lirra's attempts to be a classic Knight In Shining Armor), and General Knowledge on Emoulin (to avoid awkward questions).
This is just my opinion. What do you guys think?
Violent: Shield. Definitely shield. Worst case scenario, we can (probably) stick it on Lirra's back and use it to block attacks from behind.
Wistful: Either Alchemy (so we can make healing potions and salves, as was suggested above) or Scientific Healing Theory (so that we don't accidentally apply Worst Aid by not knowing how people react to these things) and maybe Magical Healing Theory (since we have the points for it if we don't take Alchemy, and because potions might fall under this category instead of Scientific Healing).
Lost: Barter (so we don't get ripped off, as suggested above). I'm also tempted to for for dancing, just because, but that is entirely optional at the moment, and our points would probably be better spent on a higher rank in Stealth or Barter once we've saved enough up.
Obsessed: Magical Theory. It's the only thing we can afford right now, and as has been pointed out, it's probably how we unlock Magic.
Faded: Riding (handy to know even without Lirra's attempts to be a classic Knight In Shining Armor), and General Knowledge on Emoulin (to avoid awkward questions).
This is just my opinion. What do you guys think?
SolipsistSerpent
Endlessly Devouring
Not the worst plan, though I'm inclined to save up Faded Echoes for more Perception, myself. We'll only need a few more after this if we don't spend them right away.
EDIT: And frankly, in this collection of weirdos, we probably don't particularly need basic knowledge to pass ourselves off as a normal person.
EDIT: And frankly, in this collection of weirdos, we probably don't particularly need basic knowledge to pass ourselves off as a normal person.
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NaanContributor
Provider of delicious flatbread, and nothing else.
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We also probably won't get any use out of Ride for a bit, since we need to get a steed first and we don't know if it's even a standard part of our curriculum.
Nottheunmaker
Altman be praised
- Location
- USG Ishimura
On the other hand, we do have Child of the Wyld. If we can find some way of upgrading that, or unlock an animal taming skill, getting a steed would never be an issue. Plus we might be able to ride a dragon and that's just not something you pass up. Might not see much use right away, but considering how many ranks we might need for that impossible dream, we'd probably want to start working on it sooner then later.
I agree on getting the shield skill with our Violent Echoes, because we can't afford Battle Tactics yet and we need more weapon skills now. I'm in favor of spending our Wistful Echoes on Forge, field repairs are great and making your own gear is just cool. I'm confused on why we'd want Magical Healing Theory and Scientific Healing Theory when we already have Medicine, seems like that's be buying three skills that all do the same basic thing. Like, unless it unlocks some super doctoring skill I don't see the point, and that's more a Staff thing anyway.
Lost Echoes I'm in full agreement on buying the Etiquettes and Barter. Lirra needs all the help she can get on the social front, the poor dear, and while I don't expect them to come up to much it's only 5 points each. Barter if a must if we're going to do a lot of traveling down the line, and hopefully it can help us get some better gear in the mean time. Long term I'd also like to buy singing as well. Obsessed Echoes... Magical Theory. I don't want to learn too much magic, but a few spells here and there won't hurt, and being able to identify a spell before it gets us is valuable.
The Faded Echoes I think we should save. I know what I said above, but I really want to raise our basic abilities. It's pretty clear we're not always getting a glut of any type of Echoes, and while those general skills are useful we don't really need any of them right now. We'd only be two Echoes away from then next slight improvement, whenever they come up.
It's somewhat strange to see how these skills effect Lirra. We'll have to see what the school's training does, but it seems like Echoes are basically another EXP track to boost our main skills, and grab a smattering from other areas we normally wouldn't work on and grab them fast. Two weeks ago Lirra was Gravekeeper that knew the rites of the dead and how to dig them up. Other then one or two practical skills, that was it. Now we've got a grab bag of very basic skills from all over the map, from fighting to medicine to social to stealth to learning. Quite the feat, even at their basic level. I'd worry about it drawing undo attention, but after looking at our classmates I'm not sure how we'd stick out in this place.
Still, between that and the power rush Lirra got the first time she got a bunch of Echoes, it'd be prudent to start looking up information on the Keepers of the Gray themselves. If going power mad is a thing that can happen, we'll want to know. @Renu, is there a lore skill on Grave Diggers we can buy, or is that covered by Necromantic Lore?
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NaanContributor
Provider of delicious flatbread, and nothing else.
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Well if regular Magical Theory does end up being the gateway for utility and offensive spells, then it follows that Magical Healing Theory unlocks healing spells. Scientific Healing Theory might be a prereq for getting our Medicine skill up to a certain point. Sounds like it's necessary for surgery-level stuff.
Nottheunmaker
Altman be praised
- Location
- USG Ishimura
If the Sword needs to do surgery level healing, something has gone wrong well beyond worrying about surgery. Magical Healing just seems redundant. Yes yes Cole near ganked, but that was just dice really wanting her dead. There's not a whole lot to be done for that.
Still, there is something of a point to it, though it's less for teammates and more for us, going by something Renu said.
If I'm reading this right, we're basically turning off some of our normal mental limiters to push our body past what it can normally do. This is bad because those limiters are to keep us from hurting ourselves with excessive strain. Long term, boosting our stats like this will do more harm then good.
I doubt the system works like that, but it does lead to an interesting idea. We know that exorcise is basically the body healing damaged muscles and toughing them to prevent future damage. The harder you push those muscles, the stronger you get when healed. So if we're pushing our muscles past the our psychological limits, we get that much stronger that much faster. Of course since it is damage, to much will just have us tear something before we can really see the training come to fruition. But with a solid grasp of medicine and literal magic healing, we can push ourselves hard as we want and then just fix ourselves up after training, with a side benefit of practicing our healing skills. Super win-win all around!
- Location
- The state of Paranoia
I haven't seen this kind of munchkinry in stories before, but I love it. The only problem I can think of is whether the healing actually works like that, or whether it simply returns the user to the same state they were in before the damage occurred. Non magical healing here, plus magical healing in settings like Naruto, would probably work just fine because they rely on cell division. However, it's unclear how magical healing works here, so that could go either way. In other settings where magical healing relies on time reversal or some other way of removing damage rather than speeding up cell division, this probably wouldn't work too well.
I'm not sure how fast non magical healing is in this setting, so it's probably best to see whether magical healing could work.
I think this idea fits the theme and capabilities of Marked For Death, so if you don't mind I'll try mentioning it over there. It seems useful.