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GOODBYE, ALL OF - Neon Genesis Evangelion General

I don't know what the fuck anybody is talking about when they say this is some deep cultural difference because while yeah, in Western theatres peoplr clap or cheer or talk sometimes teenagers or individual weirdos act like dickheads. But I've never in my life seen it to the extent that was reported by the story.

It just seems more like an issue of that specific audience of anime nerds were a bunch of braying fucking jackasses who needed to be corrected thus so.

Like even if this is some cultural disconnect between otaku in specific they're at a screening at a conference with studio higher ups present, not their college dorm. Shut the fuck up.

Then again, if they did know more about western nerd culture, specifcally performative homophobia and bigotry driven outrage media machines they may have made the same choice. I dunno. I can hardly assume that this wouldn't be a concern in Japan either.

Delphisage said:
Now, would you say romantic love or selfless love is more satisfying as an interpretation of Kaworu's feelings for Shinji?
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The little anime boys are gay as fuck, dude.

Well... Shinji's bi I guess. But whatever.
 
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I was just floating it as a theory. It could just be that studio people were morons. That's sort of a cross cultural thing.
Reveen said:
The little anime boys are gay as fuck, dude.

Well... Shinji's bi I guess. But whatever.
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If we're talking Rebuild movies than yeah. If we're talking Main series it's a bit more complicated I think. That said I'm pretty sure Shinji is Bi is in basically all stories.
 
Teen Spirit said:
I was just floating it as a theory. It could just be that studio people were morons. That's sort of a cross cultural thing.

If we're talking Rebuild movies than yeah. If we're talking Main series it's a bit more complicated I think. That said I'm pretty sure Shinji is Bi is in basically all stories.
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It's really not complicated. In the original script they straight up kiss. It's canon. Literal text. Shinji and Kaworu's romantic tension is more obvious than his and Asuka's ever was.
 
no. said:
It's really not complicated. In the original script they straight up kiss. It's canon. Literal text. Shinji and Kaworu's romantic tension is more obvious than his and Asuka's ever was.
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Now, friend, let's be reasonable. To understand Shinji and Auska's tension you only need to have a decent knowledge of biblical stories and a solid grasp of both characters neuroses.

To understand Shinji and Kaworu you need to have, like, eyes. And that's clearly too much to ask.
 
no. said:
It's really not complicated. In the original script they straight up kiss. It's canon. Literal text. Shinji and Kaworu's romantic tension is more obvious than his and Asuka's ever was.
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Now are we talking Manga or script? Because I knew about the Manga kiss already. If they kissed in the script then yeah, Shinji's flat out Bi in all serious adaptions that I'm aware of. Also why wasn't that on the show then? That seems like something that really should not have been cut out.
 
Teen Spirit said:
Also why wasn't that on the show then? That seems like something that really should not have been cut out.
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Probably a byproduct of Kaworu being brought into the show at the last possible minute. There's a bunch of info about how earlier plans were to introduce Kaworu at just over the halfway point or something.

Also, what kiss in the manga?
 
Teen Spirit said:
Now are we talking Manga or script? Because I knew about the Manga kiss already. If they kissed in the script then yeah, Shinji's flat out Bi in all serious adaptions that I'm aware of. Also why wasn't that on the show then? That seems like something that really should not have been cut out.
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I'm not aware of why that part of the draft was changed. I presume the network didn't want it being aired.
 
Teen Spirit said:

Chapter 10 of the Manga. Kaworu claims it was because Shinji was hyperventilating.
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Wait is that the original NGE manga? Because iirc that ENTIRE thing happens because Kaworu gets infected by Arismael right before Rei blows herself up, and he ends up inheriting her very complex feelings for Shinji and humanity as a whole as well as Rei II's dying regrets.

Like oh yeah I can absolutely accept Shinji's bi but at least in the manga and anime canon I remember Shinji finds all of his interactions with Kaworu extremely discomfiting cuz Kaworu cannot into personal space.

Rebuild of course is a different story involving much rejoicing. In the Kotomine Kirei sense.

And the expanded AU mangas are.... a thing. Damn I wish Campus Apocalypse hadn't sucked.
 
Captain Clever said:
Rebuild of course is a different story involving much rejoicing. In the Kotomine Kirei sense.
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Hey, Cruel Angel's Thesis talked about rejoicing in the Kirei sense, too.

Also, on a weirder note, you namedropping that Angel made me think you were naming it wrong, and so I thought about how I could figure out if you were right or wrong without using a wiki. Then I remembered that there was a method that would let me find out, as well as being something that I think the rest of the thread would hopefully enjoy seeing.

PS: You got the name wrong. It was Armisael.
 
Delphisage said:
Dude, one of my storybooks as a child was a picture book of Bible stories, and Jericho was one of them. That ain't even close to enough to be called "decent knowledge".
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Also, dude, not even children of Catholic Christians always grow up like this - I for example, purposely wasn't taught such things before going to school.

A Japanese youth that has probably - if at all - been raised traditionally, might know the Bible exists, full stop.
 
Ranma-sensei said:
Also, dude, not even children of Catholic Christians always grow up like this - I for example, purposely wasn't taught such things before going to school.

A Japanese youth that has probably - if at all - been raised traditionally, might know the Bible exists, full stop.
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Since when were we talking about Japanese youths? I thought this entire affair had to do with Westerners who would be watching the redub and/or resub on Netflix.
 
Delphisage said:
Since when were we talking about Japanese youths? I thought this entire affair had to do with Westerners who would be watching the redub and/or resub on Netflix.
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My fault for assuming Jericho was about Shinji, then.

Nevertheless, you can't infer Christian knowledge on a general population. It's not a world religion.
 
Ranma-sensei said:
My fault for assuming Jericho was about Shinji, then.
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Oh no, I was never criticizing the characters. Just western audiences arguing about ship viability.

Ranma-sensei said:
Nevertheless, you can't infer Christian knowledge on a general population. It's not a world religion.
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If they're the same type of person to staunchly deny any and all gay subtext as "just friends" on the internet, they usually tend to be Protestant or Anglican with the occasional Catholic or Jew.
 
To change the subject, after rewatching the series... and then rewatching the Rebuild Movies, and Death and Rebirth, and End of Eva?

I don't like Evangelion. I just don't like it. I recognize that its good and what a work of art it is, but I just don't personally find it enjoyable except for the giant robot fights, and we aren't supposed to go WOW COOL ROBOT because that's not the point of the series. I am absolutely in love with the mechanical design and aesthetics of the franchise, but I can't square that circle with Evangelion's themes and messages of being a deliberate pushback and deconstruction of the "WOW COOL ROBOT" genre.

This isn't to say that mecha anime wasn't deep before Evangelion, or that Evangelion was a sea change in the genre either. This also isn't saying it isn't important- Evangelion has had a pivotal effect on the genre, with some of the takeaways from it being good and others being bad.
 
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Fivemarks said:
To change the subject, after rewatching the series... and then rewatching the Rebuild Movies, and Death and Rebirth, and End of Eva?

I don't like Evangelion. I just don't like it. I recognize that its good and what a work of art it is, but I just don't personally find it enjoyable except for the giant robot fights, and we aren't supposed to go WOW COOL ROBOT because that's not the point of the series. I am absolutely in love with the mechanical design and aesthetics of the franchise, but I can't square that circle with Evangelion's themes and messages of being a deliberate pushback and deconstruction of the "WOW COOL ROBOT" genre.

This isn't to say that mecha anime wasn't deep before Evangelion, or that Evangelion was a sea change in the genre either. This also isn't saying it isn't important- Evangelion has had a pivotal effect on the genre, with some of the takeaways from it being good and others being bad.
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... That's a lot more calm and nuanced than what I expected.
 
I actually feel that Eva and the popular ideal of it as "The show that made giant robot anime mature and deep" isn't just harmful to enjoyment and critical review of Evangelion itself, but does a massive disservice to every single giant robot show that existed before it or since; painting all that came before as 'childish and shallow' and all that came sense as 'Eva clones' if they try to be deep or 'Babytime' if they don't try to ape Eva.
 
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