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GOODBYE, ALL OF - Neon Genesis Evangelion General

SeptimusMagisto said:
Clearly it is. Maybe it wasn't originally intended to be, but if so then Anno failed at that as hard as he failed at making Rei unsettling.
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Why is it mysterious? Why is it unclear? You're saying that it is but you're not explaining in what way. How is Kaworu saying the exact words to Shinji that are synonymous with a love confession in Japanese while lying in bed with him, after the hot spring scene laden with an insane amount of sexual tension, and then deciding that his feelings for Shinji are worth dying for, in any way shape or form unclear?
 
no. said:
Why is it mysterious? Why is it unclear? You're saying that it is but you're not explaining in what way. How is Kaworu saying the exact words to Shinji that are synonymous with a love confession in Japanese while lying in bed with him, after the hot spring scene laden with an insane amount of sexual tension, and then deciding that his feelings for Shinji are worth dying for, in any way shape or form unclear?
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He said "no homo" beforehand, but that scene was cut /s
 
no. said:
Why is it mysterious? Why is it unclear? You're saying that it is but you're not explaining in what way. How is Kaworu saying the exact words to Shinji that are synonymous with a love confession in Japanese while lying in bed with him, after the hot spring scene laden with an insane amount of sexual tension, and then deciding that his feelings for Shinji are worth dying for, in any way shape or form unclear?
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Part of it might be that I knew what Kaworu was going in, but I interpreted his "I love you" less like an expression of physical attraction and more as a statement of unconditional acceptance which resonated with Shinji because he was desperate for affection of any kind. The hot springs scene seemed to be less about sexual tension and more about Kaworu's bizarre lack of boundaries, not too dissimilar to Shinji's visit to Rei's place.

"You are worthy of my grace" actually comes really close to how Kaworu's feelings came across for me.
 
SeptimusMagisto said:
Part of it might be that I knew what Kaworu was going in, but I interpreted his "I love you" less like an expression of physical attraction and more as a statement of unconditional acceptance which resonated with Shinji because he was desperate for affection of any kind. The hot springs scene seemed to be less about sexual tension and more about Kaworu's bizarre lack of boundaries, not too dissimilar to Shinji's visit to Rei's place.

"You are worthy of my grace" actually comes really close to how Kaworu's feelings came across for me.
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"Unconditional acceptance"

That's... what love is. That's literally what love is, at its most basic level.

And I hate to break it to you... but the scene in Rei's room also had a lot of sexual tension, albeit of an unsettling, wrong-feeling nature because of Rei's tendency to shut down. So I dunno if that's the best comparison to support your argument.
 
Stop: Stop
  • Staff Post
    • stop So.

    @Delphisage the posts below are an issue because of a combination of Rule 2: Don't Be Hateful and Rule 4: Don't Be Disruptive. Advocating for violence and race war is not okay and is disruptive to the thread. Later posts adding context that the advocacy is because of boredom is not okay, and adds to the disruption.
    Delphisage said:
    It's stuff like this that makes me really impatient for a full-scale revolution and/or race war to just start up right this instant.
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    Delphisage said:
    We've been circling the drain of reactionary-revolutionary discourse since Gamergate started almost five years ago, and it's becoming really, really repetitive. I'm hoping that something REALLY BIG happens to break the monotony, because at this point, even white nationalist terrorist attacks are becoming stale. While left-wing discourse getting universally concerned with global warning because of Trump's open denialism is interesting, I just know that it's ultimately not gonna lead anywhere thanks to just how goddamn lopsided the power dynamics are in that struggle.
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    Delphisage said:
    Well, yeah. I'm too squeamish to do new things, so I instead wait for new things to come to me. Even though I have a backlog of videogames I want to play, I feel like I can't because I don't have access to physical copies of them, and I can't watch Youtube playthroughs of them either because that's not actually playing the game.
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    For these take 25 points and a week away from the thread.


    Everyone else please have a nice day!
     
  • Staff Post
    • So in the time this thread has been locked I have been stewing over some of the changes made to the EOE scene with Shinji and Asuka (the one where he ultimately snaps and strangles her) documented in this tweet.



    What stands out to me, at least my own reaction to this is that if this was indeed the efforts of someone on staff to push Asuka/Shinji be more textual then it kinda does the opposite to me. Shinji assaulting Asuka is obviously awful no matter the reason or rational but I must admit I think the idea of him doing so out of a feeling of overwhelming desperation at everyone in his life leaving him (Kensuke, HIkari moved away, Touji is badly injured, Misato and Ritsuko have gone cold and in the case of Akagi seemingly nuts. Rei has turned into some unfeeling alien and finally Kaworu someone Shinji had a deep emotional connection with, betrayed him and Shinji was forced to kill him.) I find that a lot more empathetic and understandable then Shinji freaking out because Asuka personally is rejecting his romantic advances.

    On one hand this is kinda disappointing because I do like the Asuka/Shinji dynamic but on the other...

    Ignoring any possible authorial intention the scene still works, alebit in a different way. It makes Shinji look a lot worse as a person but that does not necessarily mean its a worse scene. leaning into the idea that Shinji has a dark side born out of his frustration and lack of affection is a valid choice. And on a personal note it does thoroughly cement and support what I see as a thematic parallel between Gendo and Shinji.

    So yeah its pretty complicated and also semi ironic if it was in fact an effort to reinforce the idea of a A/S romance since to me it basically torpedos any idea of romance and indeed makes the last scene after 3I on the beach take a much darker tone.
     
    RedrumSprinkles said:
    If you'll pardon the meme, that's a 'yikes' from me, dawg. Dare I ask how you found this out?
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    Minor clarification - the translator made a spin-off manga to Strike Witches, and characters wear the Knights Cross of the Iron Cross...which is the updated version of the Iron Cross first used by Prussia, and later the German Empire and Nazi Germany, so he's really not doing himself any favors by correcting people...

    Daily Dot source

    It feels like someone saying "I didn't punch them, I clobbered them. Totally different thing."
     
    Alex said:
    I find that a lot more empathetic and understandable then Shinji freaking out because Asuka personally is rejecting his romantic advances.
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    No kidding. By supposedly making this more strictly literal, they badly introduced connotations in English that really mess up the pain and feeling of the original. Shinji reaching out to her in desperation and hope of an emotional connection is far more powerful than 'if you were my girlfriend, things would be ok'. And you know how big an A/S person I usually am. This is just... bleh. Ctrl+Z!
     
    In making the language more exact, they made it more neutral; the problem is that neutral language brings its own implied subtext to the table.
     
    LSkullD said:
    My protagonists are more unsettling on their best days than Rei is on her worst days. Mostly because they're all violent, traumatized maniacs with (often severe) self-destructive tendencies, but still.
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    To expand on this, I'm going to bring up the differences between Rei, a character who was supposed to be creepy but ended up being endearing, and Red, an OC of mine who's actually disturbing.

    Namely, where Rei is a largely benign character, Red is a fuckup willing and able to kill in cold blood. He's also a teenager.

    EDIT: To clarify, Rei is stoic because she's part alien space deity/potentially a projection of Hideaki Anno's own difficulties with communication because of potential autism, but largely a benign person acting in the best interests of humanity until shit goes horribly wrong in canon. Red, on the other hand, while stoic and autistic, has much darker reasons for his stoicism that aren't related to autism at all. Namely, Red is stoic because he's either completely drunk/buzzed off his tits, or, outside of that, because he's keeping his emotions at bay to cope with the ruthless and uncaring world of violent criminals he was thrown into, something which goes into overdrive when he has to kill people to survive.
     
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    trob030490 said:
    The people who like Misato with him have a problem.
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    As opposed to the people who want with either of the "alien progenitors of the human race using engineered cloned bodies of his parents as meat puppets" with him, of course.

    Or the "mentally unstable fellow pilot with worse mommy issues than him".
     
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    Space Oddity said:
    As opposed to the people who want with either of the "alien progenitors of the human race using engineered cloned bodies of his parents as meat puppets" with him, of course.
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    The clones seem to be neurologically teens, or are at least presented as being the same age. Not adults. Not double Shinji's age.

    This isn't ambiguous.

    Edit: They have the souls of the progenitors, which don't confir memories or identity or anything.
     
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    Alex said:
    I get ya, I just wanted to cover my bases for potential Shinji relationships some people want. I am sure theoretically you could pair him with Touji or Kensuke too. Or I guess those non canon girls Mana or Mayumi.
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    Let's see.

    Mana - Traumatised Child Soldier that either dies or ends up running from the government.
    Mayumi - Practically his opposite sex clone, can be responsible for the end of the world if not killed
    Mari - Bloodthirsty borderline psychopath that might have been a high school friend of his mother.
    Kensuke - Military fetish. Likely would end up easily tricked into an evangelion if any relationship with Shinji occurred.
    Touji - Actually normal. Except for the whole possessed by an angel and either severely injured or dead by his hands thing

    Edit almost forgot someone

    maria vincennes: Nice on the outside, Memetic Asuka on the inside. Also dies in basically every continity without ever getting a name. Good for if you want to give him long distance relationship Trauma

    Gosh Shinji's romantic prospects are great!
     
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