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GOODBYE, ALL OF - Neon Genesis Evangelion General

Funnily enough, isn't the whole idea of an OTP sort of antithetical to the message that Evangelion is trying to present?

I mean, Gendo is someone who is defined by his shipping to Yui... and he's the villain, someone who is motivated by the fact that he did only ever really become emotionally available to one person, and shut down the whole rest of the world.

I mean, not saying that the show is anti-shipping, and the merchandising and spin-offs certainly ramps up that aspect of it... but isn't the point of the television ending that it's really "about" self-actualization, about finding your own worth and talents and being able to live without being constantly reliant upon others for emotional and psychological validation?

The idea of arguing for the next twenty years over which girl Shinji should be paired off with, as if that's the thing that would make his life better, kind of amuses me in light of that.

Which isn't getting into the matter of people who like one of the girls more than the other, either because they can relate to them more, or because of the writing for them. Obviously, different kettle of fish, but I kinda just wanted to comment on the shipping aspect of it.
 
Quiver said:
I mean, not saying that the show is anti-shipping, and the merchandising and spin-offs certainly ramps up that aspect of it... but isn't the point of the television ending that it's really "about" self-actualization, about finding your own worth and talents and being able to live without being constantly reliant upon others for emotional and psychological validation?
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Shipping aside, it's why I find a lot of attempts to make Evangelion brighter lacking in depth. Having the pilot group become True Companions who find their happiness in each other (usually while brushing over the major psychological issues) feels a little...facile.

I'm a bit guilty of it myself, but I tried to acknowledge how fundamentally unstable that setup is. The original show is a perfect example of how easily such things can fall apart.
 
Ranma-sensei said:
As if any of the above has stopped anyone at any time.
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... well. True. But still, it's something that amuses me when it comes to fandom about stuff in general, and it felt vaugely appropriate to bring up here. :V

SeptimusMagisto said:
Shipping aside, it's why I find a lot of attempts to make Evangelion brighter lacking in depth. Having the pilot group become True Companions who find their happiness in each other (usually while brushing over the major psychological issues) feels a little...facile.

I'm a bit guilty of it myself, but I tried to acknowledge how fundamentally unstable that setup is. The original show is a perfect example of how easily such things can fall apart.
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Is that another thing the show is actively trying to deconstruct, that idea of True Companions and of the explosively colourful personality-types which nonetheless manage to make a functional group?

I mean, your post makes it occur to me that the show does do that, I'm just wondering if that was an intentional design choice, or something that happened because of other decisions and is just something that can be read into it.

But... yeah. Honestly, the psychological aspect of the show, and the character's personalities, are much more integral to Evangelions identity and point than the psuedo-Christian ideology. You could make a mecha-show with the more humanoid-Eva style mechs, fighting creatures called Angels... but the heart of Eva, and the thing that defines it as Evangelion are the psychological aspects of it. Take that out, and you just have a psuedo-religion themed mecha show.

Which isn't to say a story where the pilot's do become fire-forged companions isn't valid, or isn't interesting. Actually, seeing the characters grow and develop into that kind of relationship with one another could be very interesting, and emotionally resonant for people who DO struggle and emphasise with the characters... it's just something that would be very difficult, very painful, and require a lot of work from all the parties involved, even if the end result is ultimately rewarding.

A story which took that tact would be pretty interesting to read, I think, whereas something that just brushes aside how painful and difficult the group connecting with one another would be... is just an Eva-skinned supermecha. Maybe interesting in its own right, but not... Evangelion, really.
 
Ya know, I'm gonna play the optimist, I say I think we're heading for a hapy end-

Well, okay, happy ending is overblown But I think a bittersweet-yet-hopeful ending is the more likely outcome. I mean, the third film is titled "You can Not Redo", so I don't think there's going to be any kind of resetting the clock; they can't just rewind and undo the (multiple) Apocalypses' they've set off at this point.

So the narrative can either choose to wallow in the depression of that, and make a point of humanity basically destroying itself, or it can tell a story about people making mistakes, but trying to push forward and do better.

Basically, I think we'll get a midpoint between the television ending and the EoE ending. Perhaps not as optimistic and light-hearted as everyone and their literal pet penguin congratulating Shinji, but also nothing as depressing as Shinji choking Asuna on a beach while Giant Naked Rei rots.
 
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