Glory of the Emerald Empire (Legend of the 5 Rings Quest)

Well, crap. I like The Lion more than her. Which is bad because Yandere.

Yeah - Himawari looks like she'd be easy to convince (and, indeed, is interested already), but Hanabi is wiling to do anything to be with us... and if she feels like there are people in between us and her, her default flavor of "anything" is likely to be some variation on "provoke and win duels until you get what you want" which involves far too much collateral damage to things we care about.
 
Oh, it's nothing so simple as that. She *wants* to be part of our caravan, but whether or not she *can* be...

- Her lord has to agree to send her.
- Yasuki Goro has to agree to take her.

That means someone's spending political capital on this, if it happens... and she may or may not have any political capital to spend. The obvious part is her lord. Assuming that she's not lying (to herself or to us) about her devotion to Duty (and at least for the moment it doesn't *look* like she is) then she's probably at least somewhat useful where she is. She'd also have to swallow a rather lot of crow to get permission to come along as a matter of personal development. She might be willing to do that, though. Thus far, she doesn't seem to be the sort that thinks things out all that well... more impulse-driven. That could just be the effect of being around us, though. Still, her lord as yet has no particular reason to just randomly offer to have a useful samurai accompany us.

It's also possible that she's pretty toxic where she is - that her grasp of the Bushido virtues in general is not so hot, that she patches that up by being quick to take things to duels, and that her lord would be only too happy to come up with an excuse to hand her off (at which point the fact that we're down one from Shahai's heroic sacrifice gives him that excuse). At that point, someone has to convince Yasuki-sama that he wants to take her, which he may be able to turn into some small concession.

On the flip side, though, if she doesn't have the pull to make it happen somehow, and isn't so thorny a problem to her lord that he's jumping at the chance to be rid of her, she's only coming with us if Yasuki Goro asks for her - and that won't happen unless either we advise him to or she somehow convinces him to. Her ability to convince him to take her is not likely all that impressive, and I don't think that we could in good conscience, encourage him to spend political capital on her when Kitsu Himawari could be so easily convinced to come along more or less for free.

Ehh? One other option, I suppose. We could ace our attempt to convince the Dragon of real and present danger and/or overmax our political capital acquisition so hard that they assign a group of Dragon Samurai to accompany us back to the wall, with the intent of joining the defenders there. She'd likely have a pretty easy time getting attached to an expedition like that and/or getting attached to our group as a bit of a lead party for a larger group to be sent later.

Those are all plausible (other than us getting Goro to intervene on her behalf) but generally unlikely. Given my best understanding of the available information, the most likely case, though, is that she's useful where she is but without a whole lot of political pull, and we're scrambling for the influence we need to get those vital shipments of jade. Yasuki Goro doesn't ask for her, and her lord doesn't push her on us. We leave with Himawari, and Hanabi sits and seethes. Plan "redeem the Yandere" falls apart before it can ever really get started, and instead she shows up and starts to be a *serious* issue some time after we get betrothed.

It's one of the things about Rokugan. Sometimes (often) you don't get to have a happy ending. True love goes up against duty and honor, and it loses, and people suffer for it. Romantic stories are often ones of misery. It's one of the overarching themes. I personally will be trying to find ways through and tweak the situation and so forth to make this sort of thing not happen, but some times in Rokugan you just lose, no matter what you do. If you're lucky, you can at least decide what to lose... and Sousuke's choice to take the path of honor and duty means that when he does lose, he's most likely to lose at a personal level.
 
Probably best to reject her and get it over with.
Hanabi seems like more trouble than she's worth.

More trouble than she's worth? Well, yes. That's why she's a -3 point flaw.
On the flip side, though, rejecting her isn't going to get it over with. It's going to make the situation uglier.

Right now, we have an opportunity to try to turn her into a useful, functioning member of Rokugan society, with near-absolute loyalty to us, who will either serve usefully beside us, die honorably while defending us from our foes or potentially even get over us (not likely, but possible, and we'd have to buy off the flaw). Right now, she's only too happy to take and internalize whatever we might have to say, and try to live up to it as hard as she possibly can, if she thinks that it might win us for her. As soon as we reject her, though (or our parents reject her, or whatever) she gets *desperate* - and her getting desperate gets really very ugly, as soon as she's within interacting distance of anyone she thinks either might be able to help her get there or might be a barrier between her and getting to us. Things like listening to the lies of oni become a very real possibility. Right now, we have a position of (slight) authority, and she wants desperately to please us. As long as we can keep her from getting too insecure, we can make some real progress here on putting her on a better path (as we did with Shahai). We drop that, though, and it gets ugly.

Mind you, this is all *massively* OOC. Sousuke has a few hints and glimmerings of this, but nothing *like* the whole picture.
 
So is there anyway we can get her killed to not have to deal with the Yandere? Or can we just buy off the flaw as soon as we get a chance.
 
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I'm serious by the way. I suggest we learn about her major issues as soon as possible and get her lord to do something about her. If she is actually a member of the Dragon clan at all. Cause I remember the stuff in the prologue where our yandere kept the shadow lands from affecting us to badly and saved our ass from the newest leader of the tainted. There was speculation that she might be some kind of god or something.

Hanabi also creepys me the fuck out.
 
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Hanabi might be somewhat creepy, but she could be useful. Sirrocco's got the right idea.

Use her, if we can, and give her a chance to be more, or die gloryously, whichever.

Still a better end for her than without.
 
So is there anyway we can get her killed to not have to deal with the Yandere? Or can we just buy off the flaw as soon as we get a chance.
I'm serious by the way. I suggest we learn about her major issues as soon as possible and get her lord to do something about her. If she is actually a member of the Dragon clan at all. Cause I remember the stuff in the prologue where our yandere kept the shadow lands from affecting us to badly and saved our ass from the newest leader of the tainted. There was speculation that she might be some kind of god or something.

Hanabi also creepys me the fuck out.

The one in the prologue was probably *not* our Yandere. Also, there are some misapprehensions here.

- Thus far, she's done nothing truly wrong (that we're aware of). The only actual wrong behavior we've seen out of her was politically defensible (even if obviously dishonorable), was corrected rapidly after we expressed disapproval, and she's been forgiven for it by all involved... including us.
- Thus far, the only "major issue" that we are aware of is that she's really, really into us... and much of that knowledge is OOC. IC, we have some hints of it, but the actual depth, and likely outcomes, are not something that we know, and thus not somethign we can really react to.
- "When we get the chance" on a flaw like this is after we've managed to influence her into being not a major issue (one way or the other).

Right now, going after her politically would be dishonorable, out of character, doomed to failure, and a significant threat to the success of our mission. Attempting to get her killed would be worse on all of those (except possibly the "doomed to failure" one - but still a *terrible* idea).

You guys are missing something
Sousuke is unmarried
And Treaties are often sealed with marriages
Thought of that... but so far as I'm aware, our hand in marriage is not Yasuki Goro's to barter away. It would have to be brought to our parents first, at least, and they're not immediately available.

I willing to give people a chance. However we might end up getting burned for it.

* This universe is alien to me. So i'm kinda clueless.
Oh, you're quite right that we might get burned for it... but I'm pretty sure that if we don't give her a chance, that "might" turns into a "will", and the burn gets worse.

Also, if you decide you might want to improve your understanding of the universe, http://www.l5r.com/fictions/ and (more pertinently to us) http://www.kazenoshiro.com/fictions/ are here to help. Piles upon piles of official, canon fic set in the land of Rokugan. (Note that this quest is set in an alt-history of Rokugan, as set out in some of the earlier posts, but it'll still give you a good understanding of how things work - the fundamentals are the same. Check out the "Recent History" link off the third post to see where it diverges.)
 
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The one in the prologue was probably *not* our Yandere. Also, there are some misapprehensions here.

- Thus far, she's done nothing truly wrong (that we're aware of). The only actual wrong behavior we've seen out of her was politically defensible (even if obviously dishonorable), was corrected rapidly after we expressed disapproval, and she's been forgiven for it by all involved... including us.
- Thus far, the only "major issue" that we are aware of is that she's really, really into us... and much of that knowledge is OOC. IC, we have some hints of it, but the actual depth, and likely outcomes, are not something that we know, and thus not somethign we can really react to.
- "When we get the chance" on a flaw like this is after we've managed to influence her into being not a major issue (one way or the other).

Right now, going after her politically would be dishonorable, out of character, doomed to failure, and a significant threat to the success of our mission. Attempting to get her killed would be worse on all of those (except possibly the "doomed to failure" one - but still a *terrible* idea).
Well that's interesting. Still I hope she does something that creepys Sosuke out about her. Or something happens to her. Cause her actions are really creepy when you consider that she somehow just happened to be in the host springs when sosuke arrived and was offered a chance to use them. She's either stupidly lucky or she knew when sosuke was going to arrive and arranged to be in there on the off chance he would use it. She's pressing my school days buttons.
 
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How would she know that Sousuke would be there?

Anyways as a salient point to Sirrocco

Yes it technically goes through the parents. But I think Goro can convince them to put up their son if he has to.
 
How would she know that Sousuke would be there?

Anyways as a salient point to Sirrocco

Yes it technically goes through the parents. But I think Goro can convince them to put up their son if he has to.
There's a reason I said she either got stupidly lucky or somehow knew about it. Considering she's a Yandere I wouldn't be surprised that she had managed the second.
 
While it is true that there are certain spells that can do that, they're more the province of the Scorpion Clan than the Dragon. The current Dragon Family the Tamori specializes in the use of Earth magic, and it doesn't really lend itself to that sort of thing. (That and being broken as hell with potions but I digress)

But more importantly, shugenja don't as a rule duel even the Tamori who have a history of fighting from the front don't duel, by all appearances Hanabi is a normal Mirumoto Bushi of the Ninten style.

And you're either born with the ability to speak to the kami in l5r or you aren't. So learning magic later in life after being a warrior doesn't happen.
 
How would she know that Sousuke would be there?

Anyways as a salient point to Sirrocco

Yes it technically goes through the parents. But I think Goro can convince them to put up their son if he has to.
Sure. For the good of the clan, that could be done... but with the resources available to him right now, the best he can do is suggest that it might be possible.

Well that's interesting. Still I hope she does something that creepys Sosuke out about her. Or something happens to her. Cause her actions are really creepy when you consider that she somehow just happened to be in the host springs when sosuke arrived and was offered a chance to use them. She's either stupidly lucky or she knew when sosuke was going to arrive and arranged to be in there on the off chance he would use it. She's pressing my school days buttons.

I don't think the meeting in the hot springs was staged. She was pretty obviously surprised to see us there... and from what we've seen of her thus far, she's just not that good an actress. Also, as @gman391 has noted, as a Mirumoto duelist, she's *highly* unlikely to have had access to the magical/intrigue resources she would have needed to know that that's where he was going to be. We do have to worry about "potentially dangerously crazy" here. I don't think we need to worry about "deeply manipulative". I could be wrong, and I'm keeping an eye open in can she is, say, lying a great deal, but at the moment, I don't think that's what's going on.
 
I don't think the meeting in the hot springs was staged. She was pretty obviously surprised to see us there... and from what we've seen of her thus far, she's just not that good an actress.

On the other hand... How about if someone else put her there to wait for Sosuke? The dragon are not so high on intrigue and such but Hanabi is a Mirumoto duelist, meaning she might or might not be the yojimbo of some dragon shugenja.

Granted, they're more attuned to Earth magic, but... The dragon knew about our caravan coming up and our intentions before arriving. It might sound a bit harebrained and totally into shadowrun territory, but it can be also a possibility.
 
She was waiting for us at the food parlor, as we didn't go there, she came to the baths.

She probably was waiting for us for a long time, and had, in her mind, planned the encounter to the last topic... then comes the other samurai and brakes her plans...
 
She was waiting for us at the food parlor, as we didn't go there, she came to the baths.

She probably was waiting for us for a long time, and had, in her mind, planned the encounter to the last topic... then comes the other samurai and brakes her plans...
You close your eyes in contentment and simply allow yourself to soak. It has been a long journey to reach these lands, and ending your travels with such a refreshing bath is wondrous indeed. Truly, the hospitality of the dragon is a grand thing if they can provide such treatment for their guests. Drowsiness takes you slowly, and as you slouch deeper into the water you feel nothing could take away this pleasant experience.

"Is someone there?" calls a light, feminine voice from across the partition. "I can hear you on the other side of the room."
"Yes," you respond, relaxing and settling back into the bath. "I'm sorry for disturbing you."

"Oh, that's fine," the woman responds. She sounds about your age, perhaps a little older. "I really wasn't disturbed, just surprised. Most people aren't in this bath around this time."

You lean your head back and think for a bit. It's the afternoon, but still a few hours till evening. If anyone was going to clean up they'd have likely done it before now, and it's still too early for an evening wash. For a bath located a fair distance away from the main castle, it would only make sense that it would be so empty.

"I suppose that's why the servant led me here, then," you say as you continue to exult in the heat. "So that I could rest in peace after my arrival."

"Arrival?" the woman asks. "You're from outside the castle?"

"I am indeed," you answer. "My name is Hiruma Sosuke."

There's a splashing sound from her end, as if she stood up straight quickly. "The hero of the Battle of Skulking Shadows?"

Your brow furrows at the woman's words. It wasn't so strange for Shinjo Wanli to have heard of you, considering the realm of the Unicorn is not too far away from Crab lands. However, the Dragon are a good distance further and more isolated as well. It wouldn't surprise you that the various Daimyo have heard of your part in that conflict, but a random Samurai in a bathing room?

It's a strange coincidence. Then again, you already knew your fame had spread further than you'd originally believed. It's been years from that battle, and you haven't exactly been avoiding attention in any of the cities you've visited. Even still…

"I'm honestly quite surprised that tale has spread so far," you say softly.

"Oh, you are quite well known, Hiruma-san," she responds. "Everyone in the castle has been following rumors of your caravan for some time."

"They traveled so swiftly?" you say, grinning. "Well, I hope you've not heard anything too terrible."

"News of your travels is filled with nothing but excitement and honor, Hiruma-san..." she says, trailing off before making an embarrassed squeak. "Oh, please forgive me, Hiruma-san! I completely forgot to introduce myself. I am Mirumoto Hanabi."

Based on everything we're seeing here, it is mildly implied that she was in the bath before we were, and fairly strongly indicated that she didn't know it was us (or even particularly suspect that it might be us) until we told her our identity. This would suggest that either she was telling the truth, or that she has a Sincerity (lies) skill high enough to fool us. It also implies that her Sincerity (lies) skill is high enough that she's willing to integrate it into a plan that involves lying to someone she strongly wishes to cultivate, when she knows it would reflect poorly on her if she was caught, and she'd have a number of other much less risky options for doing the same (like, say, meeting us outside of the baths, gushing over how awesome we are, and offering to show us around, which would likely have achieved much the same objective).

Basically, the "this was a set-up (by Hanabi)" hypothesis requires that she be an excellent liar, that she be at least reasonably well-informed about our movements, and that she choose an overly complicated plan with serious potential points of failure, when a simpler and surer plan would do.

Also, based on her tactics during the discussion... she doesn't seem to have particularly good courtier skills. She has some skill at insulting someone badly enough to get them into a duel while still remaining deniable (a crude technique, directly applicable to her inferred role as a trained duelist), but it wasn't particularly smoothly done, it didn't take the wider social situation into account, and it was done as a reaction to losing position in a conversation when other uses of social skills would have let her regain that position far more smoothly, if she'd had them available. Also, "deniable" (what she achieved) does not equate to "convincing" (which she clearly did not). She does appear to have trained Sincerity to some degree, given how she pulled the insult off, but I strongly suspect that her Awareness is 2, which means there aren't any real plausible builds where she has "Use Sincerity (lies)" as a proactive skill to build plans around, rather than a reactive one, that you use because sometimes you need it.

I suspect... I suspect that there's a bit of genre dissonance with reality here. The thing to realize - you're perceiving her as a psycho %!$&#. You are correct. The dissonance here is that you're thinking with real-world instincts, where essentially all of the psycho %!$&#es are manipulative psycho %!$&#es. Therefore, you are immediately looking for where she's being manipulative. I'm pretty sure she's not. Mirumoto Hanabi is instead a bloodthirsty psycho %!$&# (at least according to best available information). That's not necessarily better, but it is different, and the one doesn't particularly imply the other. Indeed, assuming that she's a bloodthirsty psycho %!$&# makes it less likely that she's manipulative, as her skill with the blade makes the courtier skills that she'd need for also being manipulative less necessary in many cases, and learning both takes additional effort.

Obviously, we have very little in the way of hard and fast information here, but leaping to the conclusion that she directly is being manipulative is leaping to a conclusion that's actually reasonably unlikely.

/*****************/

Now, there is the other idea raised by @EtchedSteel... that she was guided to meet us there, by some superior that knew (roughly) how she felt about us, wanted to attach her to us for reasons of their own, and did so without telling her. That... is actually plausible. It's a bit odd - they'd have to have some reason to wish to attach her to us, one way or another - but given that, it's a plausible technique, and there are certainly courtiers within the walls of the home of the family that does diplomacy for the dragon clan who'd have the skill to pull it off. It might have been done to get further information about us. It might have been done in an attempt to set up this rising star among the Crab with a Dragon Clan wife (and hopefully have her not dishonor them all by going completely psycho later on down the line)... there are certainly plausibilities here. Still, as far as dealing with her long-term goes, there's a big difference between her being used as a pawn by her superiors in subtle courtier games, and her trying to play us herself.

It wouldn't have to be some sort of Shugenja thing, either. They almost certainly knew exactly when to expect us to arrive (for that, they definitely have shugenja, and the word was spread around those who they'd want to have know). At that point, they can adjust her schedule through subtle tweaking of tasks, and influenced her to go take a bath at the right time (or known by her habits that she would). At that point, she's int he baths with the correct timing for us to arrive from the road, dusty and tired. If none of us choose to take a bath immediately, it's zero cost. If anyone else from the party goes, they could be pretty sure that she'd attach herself to them in an attempt to get closer to us. Having us go ourselves was a bit of luck for them, but not unreasonably so. Pulling stuff like that would be entirely within the skillset of a courtier of medium to high insight. Now, I'm not saying it happened that way - it would imply that a courtier of the right level of skill cared enough to set something like that up, and the "pure coincidence" hypothesis is still entirely plausible, but it might have.
 
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Hence why I'm saying this goes into shadowruns territory. Whoever did this is being really clever since he/she already got what he/she might have been looking for.

There's no way to prove my claims, however. Not until said person shows up in the future.

Or well, more healthier is to think Hanabi did this all by herself, and her superiors are pulling a clever batman gambit here.
 
There's another poss, when it comes to why they'd set her up.

She seems to have control issues, and some serious attachment to us. They could be deleberately arranging to send her with the trouble magnet to get her killed in a glorious manner, that will reflect well on the Clan. A bloodthirsty psycho on the Wall, could work well, although probly not for long.
 
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