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Ghosts of the Ancestors. (A Cultivation Riot Quest).

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TheNotoriousSMP said:
What is the benefit of using Yin Qi for meridian clearing? Maybe I missed it but I don't recall what it does for that action
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Yin doubles the benefit of opening a meridian without doubling the dc increase.

this is huge because the dc is already exceeding our ability to hit on the first try, so every yin meridian essentially saves us 15 Pure Qi and 3 ghost actions per subsequent meridian cleared.

you might think that that means that later on getting yin meridians is less good because we will have opened more of the meridians we are going to open, but at that point being able to get the benefit of two meridians for one will be a much bigger deal, since eventually it will take tons of pure qi and ghost actions to bring a single meridian into reachable range so effectively skipping half of that effort will be worth it on its own.
 
RookDeSuit said:
Do you think that's part of the reason the bloodline is aligned with Yin Qi? There's no other way to handle the mental strain unless a person goes for the really exotic Qi types, which wasn't possible in the early history of the clan?
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The bloodline is aligned to Yin Qi because Ghosts are very very Yin. That's pretty much it. Their whole bloodline schtick runs off of Yin Qi in one way or another.
 
[X] The broken, the sorrow, the wrath.
I will be Guang Kang, an old Dao Protector of the clan who was working with a Prodigy of the family who had the potential to surpass me, they were in close door cultivation so I let them be and when I came back to check on them I found out the family had been slaughtered.


So since the Sect is a fire sect with easy access to Fire Qi which is great for body reforging... does that mean there is a high percentage of relatively impressive Body Refiners around us, impressive compared to their QC level anyway.

So Water and Fire mostly boost speed of their projects while Yin and Yang boost their quality when completed.



uri said:
Blood Qi- blood represent the body vitality, full of power and potential. Composed of fire, water and earth, utilizing Blood Qi doubles the progress gained with QC and BR actions as well as doubling all physical attribute gains, additionally using blood Qi to refine the body adds an additional +1 con and any usage of blood QI (on either QC or BR) adds +1 HP.
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Has not been added to the Information tab with known Qi yet.

uri said:
[] body refining (Warth version)- utilizing the power of wrath and blood the ghosts of the Guang may refine Guang Li body to Strang and secret purposes.
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Would these Wrath based Body refining techniques tip anyone off that Guang Li is a Guang? Like nails sharp enough to cut with and changes to the eye? Might that not be noticeable? Or were these rare among the Guang even back in the day?
 
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StarJaunter said:
So since the Sect is a fire sect with easy access to Fire Qi which is great for body reforging... does that mean there is a high percentage of relatively impressive Body Refiners around us, impressive compared to their QC level anyway.
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Yes, in fact, most people you've met are a lot more advanced in body refining then pure cultivation.

StarJaunter said:
Would these Wrath based Body refining techniques tip anyone off that Guang Li is a Guang?
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Most Guangs weren't really body cultivators, sure they refined their bodies and they had the knowledge for it but it was never a focus and of them very few actually did the claws thing. somewhat inconvenient in day-to-day life.

If someone noticed they are more likely to assume you just found a refining path, either in a ruin somewhere (rare but not supper uncommon) in the sect library or that you maybe had a minor and weird bloodline.

Its not something that would have people screaming "Guang" but it might with more signs be something that confirms such a suspicion.
 
uri said:
Most Guangs weren't really body cultivators, sure they refined their bodies and they had the knowledge for it but it was never a focus and of them very few actually did the claws thing. somewhat inconvenient in day-to-day life.
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Okay... so should we consider this as a reason to not do the claws thing? How much of a hassle is this going to be for the kid?
 
wrecksalot said:
Less of a hassle than dying becausew e keep getting into fights we can't win.
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If the amount of improvement is huge, sure. Is it? "Natural weapons 1" sounds like "you can afford to drop your spear", not "overwhelming advantage".

Mostly I'm saying that the QM is indicating a downside to this that we weren't previously informed of, on an upgrade of unclear value. I feel like knowing how big a deal the downside is is pertinent information.
 
Sirrocco said:
If the amount of improvement is huge, sure. Is it? "Natural weapons 1" sounds like "you can afford to drop your spear", not "overwhelming advantage".

Mostly I'm saying that the QM is indicating a downside to this that we weren't previously informed of, on an upgrade of unclear value. I feel like knowing how big a deal the downside is is pertinent information.
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I feel like this is something that can be solved by asking the QM
We are playing as the ghosts of fairly experienced cultivators , so information about what exactly are the benefits and deriments of that refinement seems like the thing that we would know IC.
 
The natural weapon refinement is mostly meant to cover for when you lose your weapon for some reason or as a "free" alternative to artifact weapons, it would need some investment to really equal artifact weapons and the celling on it is higher (mostly because it wouldn't require one-of-a-kind materials when you get high enough) but without going deep into it its very much meant as a backup rather than the first option.

The detriment is mostly narrative, especially in the first few levels but think for a second what it means to change your nails into the equivalent of a sword? It would require Guang Li to be careful so he won't accidentally injure himself or anything he picks up but it isn't going to be something that truly hinders him.
 
moon-llama said:
I feel like this is something that can be solved by asking the QM
We are playing as the ghosts of fairly experienced cultivators , so information about what exactly are the benefits and deriments of that refinement seems like the thing that we would know IC.
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...and, yes, this is essentially what I was attempting to do?

moon-llama said:
Cool so its a decent backup unless we dont want to invest in refining.
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Long-road, it's a path to power where we can invest the time of wrath ghosts instead of skill and resources.

So what I'm hearing is that we should probably pick one or the other.

Claws has long-term advantages over gear. (There's less worry about being disarmed, and it's cheaper to take the last few steps.) At the same time, it has not entirely trivial costs just to walk in the door. (Having your fingertips be the equivalent of swords all the time is a bit of a hassle, and it makes it easier for others to realize things about our fighting style.) Also, the "refine your own weapons" track and the natural weapons track are somewhat redundant with one another, and they both require investment.

That's not to say that going with natural weapons makes artifact refinement worthless, any more than going with the weapon tree makes blood cultivation worthless... but they are eating bits of each other's lunch, and that's something worth being aware of and thinking about.

Personally, given the clarification, I like the natural weapons track on this one. I think beast fighters are cool. It's not really my decision to make, though. It's something I put out there to encourage discussion so that we can all (hopefully) come to some sort of productive alignment on the matter.

In particular, though, I would like to argue against the "natural weapons as a backup weapon" plan. It's a marginal gain that in the medium term we can achieve more cheaply by just carrying backup weapons, and it still has the same entry costs as any other plan that includes natural weapons. If we're going to invest in natural weapons at all, we should be intending to have it as our primary weapon long-term - using other weapons opportunistically when they happen to fall into our lap.
 
Sirrocco said:
In particular, though, I would like to argue against the "natural weapons as a backup weapon" plan. It's a marginal gain that in the medium term we can achieve more cheaply by just carrying backup weapons, and it still has the same entry costs as any other plan that includes natural weapons. If we're going to invest in natural weapons at all, we should be intending to have it as our primary weapon long-term - using other weapons opportunistically when they happen to fall into our lap.
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Its something that will happen in the longer term.
Right now its too expenisve for anything other then a main plan due to the oppertunity cost.
But later? especially once we upgrade our dies?.
I would be surprised if it wont be taken as at that point 1 or 2 ghosts would be able to complete options .
 
moon-llama said:
Its something that will happen in the longer term.
Right now its too expenisve for anything other then a main plan due to the oppertunity cost.
But later? especially once we upgrade our dies?.
I would be surprised if it wont be taken as at that point 1 or 2 ghosts would be able to complete options .
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You miss my point.

Natural weapons are not worth it as a backup plan. They're just not.

If they're a backup plan, that means that we're investing in having a decent weapon as the primary plan. Eventually we'll have some sort of storage ring. Once we have a storage ring, we can just stash one or two weapons that are a tier or so down from our primary weapon... like the ones we had from before whatever our most recent upgrade was. That works just fine as a backup plan, and it doesn't take any ghost time at all, and it doesn't require that we make the origin of our arts more obvious, and it doesn't require the kid to spend the rest of his life with swords on his fingers. Oh, and we'll also be able to use whatever weapon arts we learned for our primary weapon, rather than having to develop an entirely separate set of arts for claw style.

If the goal is to have a backup weapon, then "actually just have a backup weapon" is a way better plan in the medium and long term... and it's not worth taking the (permanent!) downsides of natural weapon cultivation just to have a poor backup plan that can last us until we get a storage ring.

Now, as a primary plan? There's some real advantages there, long-term. We're back to a single fighting style and therefore a single set of combat arts. It lest us skip all of the resources that we'd normally be putting into acquiring and improving legendary weapons, and that means that we're not fighting for those resources with other people who want them as they become rarer and rarer. It lets us plug into our existing cultivation efficiency engines, and also possibly invest in other natural weapons boosters as they show up.
 
So I've just been thinking, what if we just invest in some enchanted gloves. Like, Li is doing good with his alchemy work, so safety or Herb gathering gloves don't sound too crazy. And if those gloves happened to be steel-tip, like steel tip boots, or minor spatial enchantment to 'sheathe,' sword-like nails then who would notice?

Heck, let's just lean into the FMA memes, but instead of copying Roy Mustang's Combustion gloves, it's Water telekinesis. Surely, we could reverse engineer something with vigorous study of all the Sect's meager collection. Or, we go with Water Qi storage, so Li can carry a stockpile for when he's out. We're less likely to run into a Qi deficit if we set up some kind of batteries beforehand.
 
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Thinking on future plans, do we want to start drip feeding HP to the ghosts to start working towards The Second Step? Obviously we wouldn't be going crazy on it, but I think we can manage 2 or 3 HP a turn unless something really damages us and we need all the regen we can get. And with blood refining's success we'll have a bit more health to spare from the CON boost.

Getting the Yin Qi for it will probably take a bit, but as long as we don't skimp on gathering it any turns we might be able to spare a couple every few turns. More if we can get a few more meridians open to make gathering Qi easier.
 
TheNotoriousSMP said:
Thinking on future plans, do we want to start drip feeding HP to the ghosts to start working towards The Second Step? Obviously we wouldn't be going crazy on it, but I think we can manage 2 or 3 HP a turn unless something really damages us and we need all the regen we can get. And with blood refining's success we'll have a bit more health to spare from the CON boost.

Getting the Yin Qi for it will probably take a bit, but as long as we don't skimp on gathering it any turns we might be able to spare a couple every few turns. More if we can get a few more meridians open to make gathering Qi easier.
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We should be able to get another yin meridian next turn so that would increase our qi production.
For hp drip its an issue , our current regen is far less then our use , and when you add that all the wrath option cost hp we can afford it rn .
Maybe once we get into the alchemy hall , if we could afford healing pills on the regular it wouldbr more affordable.
 
So, now that we're nearing the end of the third months since I've started this quest and we just passed the halfway point for the tutorial turns, I've wanted to ask for some feedback.

What do you like about this quest? what do you dislike? Do you think anything specific needs improvement (suggestions are always welcomed)? Give me the good, the bad and the ugly, even a everything's good/suck lets me know if we're going the right direction.

In particular, I want to ask about the floor for purchasing things/investing into the second step, I put that mechanic there to stop just 1/2 posters form emptying a vital and powerful resource but I want some feedback on if 15 is the right number or if we should go lower to ease buying things (or even higher to make sure the thread is in agreement).
 
uri said:
So, now that we're nearing the end of the third months since I've started this quest and we just passed the halfway point for the tutorial turns, I've wanted to ask for some feedback.

What do you like about this quest? what do you dislike? Do you think anything specific needs improvement (suggestions are always welcomed)? Give me the good, the bad and the ugly, even a everything's good/suck lets me know if we're going the right direction.

In particular, I want to ask about the floor for purchasing things/investing into the second step, I put that mechanic there to stop just 1/2 posters form emptying a vital and powerful resource but I want some feedback on if 15 is the right number or if we should go lower to ease buying things (or even higher to make sure the thread is in agreement).
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The one part that I *don't* like is that it's possible for individual members of the horde to make suboptimal choices (specifically, with which kinds of qi to use for things) that will then cause a loss in long-term effectiveness that we simply cannot recover. It's a riot quest. It's fine if there are choices that wind up being worthless. Having interesting and crunchy mechanics to figure out and all work towards is cool. Even the vote-to-buy system is fine, because it at least requires buy-in from a decent number people. Hoenstly, 15 seems like it's been working. We've been able to buy the things we need, and I haven't seen a lot of unhappiness about it. The other stuff, though... the fact that someone could just say "I think I'm just going to clear this meridian with pure qi today", and thereby effectively cost us one meridian-clear's worth of advancement forever? That's a bit of a feelsbad.

I mean, I think it's literally only happened the once, with a bit of pure qi body cultivation, but it still felt bad. So... maybe later on have one of the "advance what ghosts can do" unlocks let us go back and reforge some of that stuff with the "right" qi rather than the "wrong" qi? It would even be okay if it came at a bit of a surcharge in ghost effort - just as long as it was *possible* to fix these issues.

...and, similarly, I feel like it should be possible to lock certain options as a matter of policy. If we decide that our long-term strategy does *not* involve growing claws (or any other upgrade that comes with a baked-in downside that isn't just resource expenditure), I'd like there to be some way for the playerbase as a whole to decide that and establish it so that we don't have some rando show up 12 turns from now, grab a wrath ghost, say "Oh, cool! Claws!" and immediately roll for it.

Or, heck, just use the lock-out feature to say things like "as a matter of policy, we will only roll for meridians with Yin. We will only roll for Body Cultivation with Fire. We will only roll for breakthroughs with Water" or whatever... and then if we find a better form of qi, we'd have some similar vote-thing that would let us change the policy at that time.

I mean, discovering a form of god-qi that would mean that we're retroactively been using The Wrong Qi for the last three breakthroughs and would be forever weaker than we could have been... that would also be feelsbad. It wouldn't feel as bad, though. That's the kind of thing that just happens sometimes in xianxia.
Nando said:
[X] The broken, the sorrow, the wrath.

A bit late to the party, but oh well.

Can I immediately roll for stuff, or do I wait for next turn, @uri ?
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We are not currently in a rolling phase. The votes/rolls for last turn are closed, and the votes/rolls for next turn have not yet opened.
 
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I could see the number of votes needed going to like 10 after the first investment happens. However right now I'm personally not going for it because I want to get more meridians unlocked using those resources.

And yeah with the fact that anyone could just decide to use the wrong resources to permantly handcap I could see be very annoying. Like right now how I'm focusing on getting the merdian bonus up to spend less yin qi, if someone came around and just used pure qi to unlock it instead I would be very annoyed for a while.
 
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uri said:
In particular, I want to ask about the floor for purchasing things/investing into the second step, I put that mechanic there to stop just 1/2 posters form emptying a vital and powerful resource but I want some feedback on if 15 is the right number or if we should go lower to ease buying things (or even higher to make sure the thread is in agreement).
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If anything I would ask if we could drop this down to 13 or 11 or something.
 
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