[X][Piltover]: If he Thinks it's My Chance for a Better Life, I Should Try
[X][Downtime]: Keeping Working on her Mouser Bombs Alone
[X][Downtime]: Keeping Working on her Mouser Bombs Alone
Get Jinxed: A Tale of Mental Instability and Poor Decisions (Arcane/League of Legends)
Empty Chairs at Empty Tables
- Location
- Here
- Pronouns
- They/Them
Interlude: Empty Chairs at Empty Tables
There were a lot of things Vander hated about getting older. Looking in the mirror and noticing that his hair looked thinner and grayer than it used to. Waking up feeling sore and tired for no damn reason. That pervasive, gnawing fear that maybe his best days were behind him, and now he was just running out the clock. But perhaps the worst of all was how lonely it was.
Sure, everyone knew him. He was a 'Hero of the Zaunite Revolution' and owned the local bar, that was enough to make him a popular guy. But those were acquaintances, not real friends. He'd buried most of those, and between doing his best to raise four kids and running his own bar he didn't have much of a social life. Not that he regretted taking in the kids. No, his only regret was that he'd had to do that at all.
Still, it meant that on days like today, he didn't have many people left to talk to. Benzo was the only one left. The others were all dead, and the few that survived got out of Zaun. Maybe he should've followed them. Wouldn't getting the kids out of this hellhole be the right call? He'd just told Powder to play nice with the topsiders if it meant getting out of Zaun. Maybe he should've sold the Last Drop for whatever he could get and boarded a ship for somewhere on the other side of Runeterra. Make a new life somewhere like Demacia, far away from Zaun and its problems.
It was a nice dream, but he knew it wouldn't be that simple. Leaving everything behind and starting over wouldn't be that easy, and he doubted any of those supposed greener pastures were actually any better. Demacia probably had slums and rich assholes living large by stepping on top of everyone else too, he'd just never been there to find out. Some mythical new life in a new land would probably just mean new problems, except now he'd have less money and no friends or connections to help him deal with them.
Not to mention it would mean leaving Zaun behind. If Vander wasn't there, who would push back against Piltover and the Chembarons whenever they went too far? Even if it wasn't good enough, he'd seen just how much worse it could be. Somedays, it felt like he was the only one who understood the abyss both cities were tottering on the edge of, just needing one more push to tumble into chaos and destruction. Or worse, they saw it and wanted to jump head-first into that pit, the way he had.
Vander sighed and refilled his beer. Speaking of old regrets...
Benzo let out a knowing chuckle from his seat at the bar. "I know that look, Vander. Your brain's stuck in the past again."
Vander scoffed and shook his head. "Like yours isn't, old man?"
"Old man?" Benzo sighed and rubbed a hand over his increasingly barren head. "That's a deep cut. Probably because it's true. We both are." He scoffed and shook his head. "Days like today, I wish we could just get piss drunk like we used to and find someone to get into a fight with. That'd be a lot easier than having to worry about being a responsible adult for our kids." He let out a loud snort and knocked back the rest of his beer. "Kids. Seems like it was just yesterday that Felicia told us she was knocked up, and now Vi's not too far off from being full-grown. When the fuck did that happen?"
"I hope you two old farts aren't gonna start going on about the good old days for hours." Sevika settled onto a stool next to Benzo. "If we're in for another night of that, I'm gonna need to stop drinking beer and get into the heavy stuff."
Vander chuckled. "Is that you, little Sevika? You should know you aren't old enough to drink yet." He grinned and poured her a cup of orange juice, ignoring the sour look she sent his way. Once he'd made his point he did her the courtesy of at least adding some proper kick to it.
"Speaking of kids, good thing you got yours back," Benzo murmured. "Gave us all a proper scare when we heard Vi and Powder got pinched."
Vander groaned and took a seat across the bar from the two of them. Things had slowed down enough that he could afford to spend some time shooting the shit, and by now all the kids would be asleep. "Can't believe they went and did that. I don't know how many times I told them not to go into Piltover."
"You really are an old man if you thought they'd listen," Benzo smirked at him. "It's not like we followed all the rules when we were their age. You're turning into a mama bird in your old age, scared to let any of the little ones out of the nest. They're not gonna listen to you forever, and the longer you try to hold on the harder they'll try to break free."
Sevika snorted. "Haven't you heard, Benzo? He's putting his girls to work thanks to this mess. Got them picking up trash and running errands for the Pilties to apologize for all the trouble they caused."
"I was going to put them to work on something after this regardless," Vander grumbled, wiping his hands with an old rag. "If they've got enough time on their hands to plan break-ins topside, they clearly need something to keep them busy. Might as well be helping to clean up the mess they caused in the first place."
"So that's it, then?" Sevika shot back. "We just fall in line like good little subjects whenever the Pilties crack the whip?"
"No," Vander growled. "I tried talking first, 'cause it got my girls back faster and without any blood on the ground. If giving the Pilties a few baubles back gets us everything we want, I'll pay that price. I don't love talking to the topsiders and giving them a win, but I like what happens when we don't cut a deal even less. You can always try talking first, but once the blood starts flowing nobody wants to listen. If I'd started a fight, my girls wouldn't be sleeping peacefully in their beds tonight."
Sevika scoffed and turned to Benzo. "Can you believe this? When did The Hound of the Underground turn into a lapdog? Going topside to hand back most of the kids' loot and humbly ask the Enforcers if they'd please kindly give his kids back, and he'd even send them back to be good little maidservants." She turned back to Vander. "What happened to you?"
Vander slowly set his washrag aside and set his hands on the bartop, fixing Sevika with a dead-eyed stare. After the silence dragged out long enough to be painful, he finally broke it. "What do you think I should've done, then? Called the Lanes out to war? Turned all the gangs into an army and marched it across the bridge to kill every damn bluebelly who stood between me and my girls? Made the gutters run red with blood until I got what I wanted? Is that what would've made you happy, Sevika? How many of us should've died to get them back your way, when I managed it just fine without shedding a drop of blood?"
"It's not just about the one set of girls this one time," Sevika shot back. "It's about our pride!"
"Pride!" Vander scoffed. "How many of our people dead is that worth to you?"
"You think we're afraid to fight?" Sevika bit back.
"No, I don't." Vander sighed and slumped down onto his stool. "That's the whole damn problem with you, Vi, all the other kids these days. Nobody's afraid of fighting. You've got your heads so full of dreams of victory you haven't even thought about what it'll cost you." He held up his hand to cut Sevika off. "Lemme guess, your next line is something about how you're not afraid to die for The Cause. You've got guts. Dying's not the hard part, though. It's watching other people die. Burying your friends, the people who fought alongside you and believed in you. Watching their families try to pick up the pieces after the fighting's over."
He waved a hand over the bar. "I was where you were, ten years ago. Me and my friends sitting at that table right there, talking about our revolution and how we'd lead Zaun to a brighter new tomorrow. Then tomorrow never came, and all I have left to show for it is empty chairs around an empty table, and wondering why you're still alive when they're all dead."
Sevika scoffed and got up from her stool. "You're just a burnt-out old man." She tossed some coins onto the bar and stalked off into the night.
Benzo sighed and shook his head. "She's still young and full of fire. Some day, she'll understand what you're talking about."
Vander's gaze lingered on that empty table, remembering simpler, happier times. "I hope you're wrong, Benzo. Better for them all to think I'm tired, out-of-touch old man than for them to learn the lessons we did."
Based Sevika.
What army? They aren't even armed or trained right. No discipline, they might as well be a mob. That's just a slaughter waiting to happen with no infrastructure backing it. Silco did a lot wrong but he was right to make a government and attempt to organize things before doing anything.
Edit: Zaun means nothing to piltover. Talk to the right person and they'll likely let it go. At least when they get Hextech not sure if that's true before that point.
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- Pronouns
- Reader
Piltover vote is tied between better life and worth playing nice.
[][Willpower]: Spend zero
[][Willpower]: Spend one.
Also, If you could incorporate one of the above into your votes, it would be much appreciated.
[][Willpower]: Spend zero
[][Willpower]: Spend one.
Also, If you could incorporate one of the above into your votes, it would be much appreciated.
Self worth malus may affect the attempt at better life down the line, whereas knowledge is more valuable at the moment.
[X][Piltover]: Getting Tools, Training, and Knowledge is Worth Playing Nice
[X][Downtime]: Keeping Working on her Mouser Bombs Alone
[X][Piltover]: Getting Tools, Training, and Knowledge is Worth Playing Nice
[X][Downtime]: Keeping Working on her Mouser Bombs Alone
jwolfe_beta
Semi Genre-Savvy Overlord
- Location
- Canada
Though making said government out of Chembarons probably wasn't be best move in the long or short term.
- Location
- barking
Shame sikco government was just a group of thugs and crimelords who only cared about themselves
- Location
- Here
- Pronouns
- They/Them
Yeah, definitely a mistake. Though probably a case of "work with the power structure you have, not the one you want." Silco certainly seemed to have no love for them.
- Pronouns
- she/her
[X][Piltover]: If he Thinks it's My Chance for a Better Life, I Should Try
[X][Willpower]: Spend one.
[X][Downtime]: Keeping Working on her Mouser Bombs Alone
[X][Willpower]: Spend one.
[X][Downtime]: Keeping Working on her Mouser Bombs Alone
- Location
- Spain
[X][Piltover]: If he Thinks it's My Chance for a Better Life, I Should Try
[X][Willpower]: Spend one.
[X][Downtime]: Keeping Working on her Mouser Bombs Alone
[X][Willpower]: Spend one.
[X][Downtime]: Keeping Working on her Mouser Bombs Alone
Well what was he supposed to do? They're the most powerful people in Zaun that are in control of industry. He'd have to kill each of them, run their industry until he can find replacements if he could take it in tact.
Even if Piltover left Zaun alone and gave them their independence they're doomed due to its current power structure.
- Location
- Canada
The Chembaron's control over Zaun's industry and resources didn't seem as total during Vander's time.
And there was more of a community among it's people.
Trying to grow that community into something that could do more than just endure in solidarity would mean more time and patience and trust than Silco had in him though.
Silco wanted to rapidly industrialize Zaun so that it might stand up against Piltover.
Personally I see trying to play that particular game a losing proposition, since Piltover's already won it, but even if it wasn't, Silco could not have been headed down a more direct path to a full circle revolution if he tried.
By empowering the Chembarons he effectively created the class imbalance of Piltover and Zaun in miniature within Zaun itself, except more openly brutal.
At that point, Zaun's independence just means the Chembarons get to self govern openly.
I've had conversations where the other guy figured that it'd all work out because Silco would "just get rid of the Chembarons afterward/keep them in line".
Like he's some all encompassing mastermind who could just snap his fingers and solve the issue.
But I do not believe that for even a second, there is no stuffing that genie back into the bottle.
Not to mention, I don't know if Silco would even care.
Several posts ago someone expressed the idea that while the Chembarons were all rats, at least Silco never lost sight of the revolution.
And I don't think that's completely true.
He never lost sight of the goal of an independent Zaun, but he completely lost sight of the reasons he had that goal in the first place.
Like, when he's confronting Vi, he's introducing himself surrounded by beggars scrabbling at his coat whole he dangles Shimmer in front of their faces.
When Vi gets away he flies into a rage and just starts curbstomping some poor unfortunate.
According to Ekko, he's not just using his own men to against Zaun's own people, he's outright paying Enforcers to arrest and murder Zaunites who resist him.
He's willing to kill Felicia's kids.
The means determine the ends.
You don't get in bed with people like the Chembarons without developing some callouses, and this is a man who's become comfortable with inflicting violence and suffering upon the less fortunate.
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Torgamous
Aspiring Gynoid
- Pronouns
- She/Her
It's also a matter of practicality. When the control the chembarons have is at the expense of the rest of Zaun, it's foolish to expect them to not betray the rest of Zaun the second Piltover says "Hey, how about we make you even richer in exchange for fucking over the people you were already fucking?"
Sure, unionizing Zaun would take longer and make for less engaging television than the air filter cutoff scene, but sometimes sacrifices have to be made.
Sure, unionizing Zaun would take longer and make for less engaging television than the air filter cutoff scene, but sometimes sacrifices have to be made.
- Location
- barking
I think in part thats what the middle part of arcane season 1 showed how silco cared about a free zaunn but ignored what was acutally happening in his kingdom sure he would make zaunn free but well look at how much worse they had it under silco
also about the chembarons don't get in bed with vipers they always bite and everyone of them would of betrayed silco if given the chance (I think most of them even did or was that just finn and the women whos son was killed)
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Did Zaun have anything at that point Pilober needed? Jayce just got up one day and asked for Jinx in exchange for Sauna independence and everyone on the council almost went with it. It was like that weren't losing anything.
Even in season 2 we see that the mines are closed down. We don't see any major business being done with Zaun. That's why I'm thinking Hextech made Zaun useless.
Edit: TBF not many people cared about a free Zaun. The people who cared was either with him or fired of fighting.
The Chem Barons were already in power. The furry for example had the industry of prosthetics on lockdown. Shimmer made Chemtech better and more prevalent.
Even in season 2 we see that the mines are closed down. We don't see any major business being done with Zaun. That's why I'm thinking Hextech made Zaun useless.
Edit: TBF not many people cared about a free Zaun. The people who cared was either with him or fired of fighting.
The Chem Barons were already in power. The furry for example had the industry of prosthetics on lockdown. Shimmer made Chemtech better and more prevalent.
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Varder
Tired Cultist
- Location
- Hell
Like unions can't be bought/destroyed when powers are interested in it. The moment Zaun actually tries to get back on its feet it will need to defend itself (unless Piltover just rolls over like it tried to in S1, but no one could have predicted that). Zaun can't do it without industry & army. Silco just saw the opportunity to use Shimmer for both.
And considering that by E1S9 he was already "half there" to stopping production of Shimmer, he knew & remembered his reasons for even using it in the first place very well.
And considering that by E1S9 he was already "half there" to stopping production of Shimmer, he knew & remembered his reasons for even using it in the first place very well.
- Location
- United States
I think you're ignoring what their immediate reaction was. As soon as Jayce suggested it, everyone except Mel (but including even relatively more sympathetic council members like Cassandra and cog-neck lady) absolutely flipped out.
We later see them voting for it, but I think what makes the most sense is that this is after quite a bit of time. This is supported by (IIRC) Jayce's initial proposal comes during the day, maybe evening, but it's dead night by the time the vote concludes. I think Jayce and Mel pulled literally every favor and piece of leverage they had to ram it through, and the others went along with it because while they were losing out a bit, Jayce is in a position where he could give ultimatums like "do this or I shut down the Hexgates and all Hextech research and then go to our closest competitor and set up Hexgates for them" or something similar.
Also, thanks to Marcus, the council was probably totally in the dark about what Zaun was like. They were probably initially thinking that crushing any dreams of rebellion was going to be a relatively minor police action like the bridge. Even though Piltover could have beaten Silco (at least without Jinx working on a hextech weapon), they might have been scared by realizing that the enemy was both stronger and different than they'd realized.
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- Location
- Canada
Halfway there according to Silco, who can definitely be trusted to give a full and accurate accounting of his business portfolio in front of Jayce
Because discontinuing "half" of his Shimmer production, the literal thing he is building his efforts to fight Piltover upon, out of nowhere right before meeting Jayce, whom he then immediately tries to intimidate with the idea that Jayce is scared of war with Zaun until Jayce tells him point blank that he's scared that Zaun's going to get mauled, is definitely not contradictory
Whereas Silco's treatment of the least fortunate members of Zaun's populace can be literally seen with the evidence of our own eyes
View: https://youtu.be/6a2bR1z0-yM?t=65
My man is literally curbstomping one of the destitute addicts he juiced up on Shimmer and sent after Vi and Caitlyn
For no reason at all except that he's pissed that Vi and Caitlyn got away so he's taking it out on the nearest punching bag
There's not even any arguing that this is a cruel act for the sake of the greater good or anything, he's literally just stamping someone's face into mush because he's angry and needs to take it out on someone
That's a distasteful act even assuming that addict is already dead from being crushed under some scaffolding, completely disrespectful of the fact that that was a person whom he used like a weapon and ruined
And given Deckard survived the monkey bomb explosion, there's a pretty good chance that the addict was not dead yet
I find it hard to believe in the idea of Silco the revolutionary man of the people, when the people are quite literally picking his boot leather out from between their teeth, to put it mildly
He's a tragic villain, a complex character, and it's the injustices of the system that creates people like Silco
But Silco is unmistakably a villain
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Varder
Tired Cultist
- Location
- Hell
I never claimed that he was. But he was smart, he wouldn't have lied about something that can be trivially fact checked, especially in what was probably the most important negotiations of his life.
If Ekko took over Zaun he'd probably pull everything out of nowhere. He created the skateboard guys and their green zone out of nothing.
- Location
- Canada
It's the dead of night in both scenes, with the red moon in the same relative position too
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lG_Y-TuDlRY
The scene leads immediately to Jinx's tea party, and rather implies that the two events are occurring at the same time with the continuity between Mel considering her family ring and fiddling with it when we cut back
I don't get the sense that Jayce coordinated with Mel at all either, viewing the scenes
All indications are that the Council really did ultimately acquiesce to granting Zaun independence after the initial outrage for the sake of peace, with not a whole lot of resistance
I don't find that too hard to believe though, because the Council was actually pushing for negotiation with Silco
Like, almost unanimously in favor of peace, even Salo was pushing for it
It wasn't out of a sense of recognition for their part in this mess, mind, but Jayce was actually the only one pushing for conflict beforehand
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cqkvjT4Iw5A
The initial outrage does seem to be more matter of Jayce going above their heads, and his flippant attitude toward his fellow councilors
Also, Piltover doesn't need Zaun for anything at that point, so they don't lose much by letting Zaun govern itself
The whole "access to the Hexgates" thing is a much bigger sticking point and would realistically see more negotiation at a later date to hash out the details though
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There are several problems with this analysis.
Vander's comparatively peaceful community achieved very little, and it was only made possible thanks to the leverage gained by the revolution. Zaun proved that it had teeth, and it could, though definitely not win, make life very difficult for Topside. Vander used this momentum to negotiate better terms for Zaun, but as should be obvious, better terms relative to the abysmal conditions of Zaun beforehand.
Vander's Zaun was only mostly horribly oppressed and exploited instead of completely.
This is an improvement in conditions, but its certainly not a solution, and I would say it would be pretty likely to worsen again the moment Vander isnt around to keep that deal going, or the moment something imbalances it. And again, all of it was only possible because the threat of revolution brought Piltover to the negotiating table. They certainly weren't going to let up out of the kindness of their hearts.
Any push for independence requires mustering Zaun's strength (such as it is) as much as possible, and not squandering it by the internecine warfare that would be required to eliminate the chembarons. If we were the prospective revolutionary leader of Zaun, we would have to make the following calculations:
-Piltover needs to be forced to the table, like they were last time, by a show of force. In the words of the show "The base violence necessary for change." Violence, of course, sucks, but it really is necessary under circumstances like these, and we certainly cant be blamed for fighting back against the people who use us as, effectively, slaves, and inflict daily violence upon us both directly through the enforcers, and also, again, directly pumping toxins into our city to kill our children (quite possibly just for fun). We don't have to win a full on war (That idea might as well be a pipe dream), but we have to convince them that fighting us would be too bloody and costly to be worth it.
-When/if Hextech is introduced, it allows Piltover to grow stronger expontentially, widening the already bad gap in capability with each passing day. This means that any bid for freedom has to be as efficient with it's time as possible, because the longer it takes, the more that gap will grow, and pretty soon any chance at all will dissapear.
-With the above in mind, any attempt to remove the chembarons would singlehandedly and permanently fuck over all of Zaun. It would be a massive waste of precious time and blood, neither of which we could afford to lose. However many days/weeks/months/years one would waste trying to clean the streets up, would be time Piltover would be growing stronger until they are so far beyond us that its not even funny anymore. Every ganger or goon we kill or put away, no matter how individually deserving, is one less potential fighter to stack up against Piltover, not to mention the mountains of losses Good Zaunites would take doing so. The end result of this? A Zaun ravaged and weakened by internicine warfare, everyone suffering far more than they did under Silco (Or Vander, for that matter), any potential strength divided and squandered against itself. A piltover stronger than it's ever been before. With any conceivable chance at independence now gone, the future consists entirely of an enforcer boot stamping on a Zaunite face in perpetuity. All the effort would have been wasted, the situation made infinitely worse, and new chembarons would inevitably rise up to take the place of any defeated ones. Because chembarons, like the general presence of crime in Zaun, is not a phenomenon of bad people just showing up out of the blue and deciding to be evil: It is the direct result of the circumstances and squalor piltover has created.
-What, then, is the solution? Bring the chembarons into your little alliance, thereby aligning their goons and resources for the revolution, increasing your odds of successful negotiation. Pump out as much shimmer as possible, both for the wealth it generates (another tool to be used), and because the weapons it can create are powerful enough to shorten the gap even further. (Even if they look scarier than they are, that still makes them useful).
-Assuming you successfully negotiate independence, an Independent Zaun can then wind-down shimmer production, and attempt to phase out the chem barons as much as possible. Silco was willing to kill them for gathering without his permission, it's obvious he didnt really like them. His authority as the leader of an independent Zaun would have made sidelining them or eliminating them easier ... but not certain. What's more important in this regard is the economic shift. Without Piltover, Zaun has the opportunity to at least try and find a much healthier economic equilibrium, and, with the Socio-Economic situation becoming better, the chembarons would hopefully lose much of their power.
It is not a Good solution. It is not even an okay solution.
Its a bad solution, and has the potential to go wrong in a wide variety of ways. But it is the best of the very limited and horrible options Zaun has given the circumstances in which it has to work. And for that, you can blame piltover.
Reminder: Shimmer literally only exists (or, will exist, I suppose) because of the chemicals Piltover keeps dumping in Zaun.
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- Location
- United States
I don't disagree, but the same is also true of S1 canon!Jinx.
Part of my interest in seeing and potentially working with Silco in this quest is general distaste in the trope that anyone who is willing to color outside the lines for the sake of fighting an injustice is necessarily a villain. That if an unjust system does not literally call itself "The Evil Empire of Doom" or something similar, then people either fight that injustice in totally peaceful, clean ways or that they are a villain, even if a sympathetic one. In canon he certainly is, but whether that's guaranteed or something that can be changed is up to interpretation IMO, and I could see it going either way.
If he is always going to be a villain though, I'd prefer to be working with people like Ekko and Sevika than piltover. A quest in which we take our freedom from topside with blood and bombs and maybe shimmer is a lot more interesting to me than one in which we're basically just the cute girl that made Jayce and maybe Cassandra, Mel, or Heimerdinger realize that hey people from Zaun are people. The whole thing about the greatest thing we can do being to find the power to forgive strikes me as a bit rich when Piltover's oppression of Zaun isn't even something that historically happened, or something which used to be much worse and is now much better but some aspects and the long term consequences are still present. They are literally poisoning children right now, in this moment during the quest.
At this point though I suspect we're only going to vote that way if we get personally burned hard by Piltover. Most of the nasty shit Piltover does is implied but safely off screen and done by extras rather than named sympathetic viewpoint characters, most of the nasty shit people like Silco or even Sevika or Jinx is right there on screen.