Game, Set, [MAFIA]

Do people like pointless polls with their mafia?

  • Yes.

    Votes: 7 24.1%
  • No.

    Votes: 2 6.9%
  • I didn't answer this.

    Votes: 7 24.1%
  • Wynaut?

    Votes: 13 44.8%

  • Total voters
    29
In addition, I am under the impression that general consensus is setup speculation is a bad idea, as it can bait out power roles, inadvertantly give information about what your role is, and is more likely to create misconceptions than to meaningfully inform scumhunting.
(Also, I am like 90% certain Nictis has censured me for setup speculation before)

We need something to start actual discussion or nothing happens, and a lot of set-up speculation is bad because scum intrinsically starts knowing more. A semi-open set-up actually weakens a lot of that argument.

I'll admit, I'm more suspect of Deviljho's reaction than yours atm.
 
Hm. I also find it kind of scummy that LDJ jumped in to shade me but is planning to vote for meme.

[X] Vote LostDeviljho
 
In addition, I am under the impression that general consensus is setup speculation is a bad idea, as it can bait out power roles, inadvertantly give information about what your role is, and is more likely to create misconceptions than to meaningfully inform scumhunting.
It's a semi-open setup. Literally everyone is a power role. We know this, the closest thing we have to a non-power role is "You have to visit people at night".
 
Hm. I also find it kind of scummy that LDJ jumped in to shade me but is planning to vote for meme.

[X] Vote LostDeviljho
Correction, I'm not planning to vote at all. I might vote for a meme, though, because this is D1 and voting off suspicion and voting off a dice roll are basically the same thing right now.
 
Correction, I'm not planning to vote at all. I might vote for a meme, though, because this is D1 and voting off suspicion and voting off a dice roll are basically the same thing right now.
Yeah, I don't like this. The reason for that is that "a dice roll" is uncomfortable and yeilds no information, even if you later flip. I'd much rather force people to pick someone as though they have a reason, even if they don't have one, so they don't provide scum with cover to do the same.
 
Okay so.
Jester - MafiaWiki Whenever I search on this for fool it automatically redirects to this page.
So, I decided to try out forums. Fool This one does have the requisite power but is just like the jester in the seconday win condition.
Fool This is another wiki where Fool is simply another jester.
 
The worst case Shadell presents is deeply implausible. Rereading, that may well have been to argue that scum likely has major drawbacks, but that does not seem to be the main thrust of the speculation.
In addition, I am under the impression that general consensus is setup speculation is a bad idea, as it can bait out power roles, inadvertantly give information about what your role is, and is more likely to create misconceptions than to meaningfully inform scumhunting.
(Also, I am like 90% certain Nictis has censured me for setup speculation before)


With that said, it is only somewhat suspect, and I find the concerted defence of Shadell's speculation more suspicious than the speculation itself. (See- general consensus is setup speculation bad. If I am wrong about general consensus, will need to reevaluate.)
I pretty much went through the same thought process as Shadell looking over the information we have. It looks like we're hopelessly outgunned, so there is probably something more to the set up than we see. (Which Nictis has since confirmed, with the secret drawbacks mafia powers have).

A set up like this one where we know so much going in is a lot different than standard mafia. There is no likelihood of somebody saying their role to clarify the set up because we already have it.
 
The worst case Shadell presents is deeply implausible. Rereading, that may well have been to argue that scum likely has major drawbacks, but that does not seem to be the main thrust of the speculation.
In addition, I am under the impression that general consensus is setup speculation is a bad idea, as it can bait out power roles, inadvertantly give information about what your role is, and is more likely to create misconceptions than to meaningfully inform scumhunting.
(Also, I am like 90% certain Nictis has censured me for setup speculation before)


With that said, it is only somewhat suspect, and I find the concerted defence of Shadell's speculation more suspicious than the speculation itself. (See- general consensus is setup speculation bad. If I am wrong about general consensus, will need to reevaluate.)
I'd say it always depends on the situation. You are right that we have to take care not to spoil our roles. But the general situation here with the semi-open game is quite differrent.
Each role is already known and we know how many scum there are. And they know all this as well, eeven a bit more. So imo this little bit of setup spec we can do right now and what Shadell did isn't really hurtful.

Pseudo-Edit: Kinda Ninja'd by Meso

I've tried to find any forum where that secondary objective wasn't there. That's why I had to ask.
I'm pretty sure there isn't a secondary win-con for the fool. That role goes by jester on SV as IH and LDJ already said. Jesters can be town-aligned but are rather detrimental if they are townsided. I'd guess they are more commonly third party than town as in our case.
In addition the common jester on SV doesn't have the abillity to visit anyone. So I'd go with Nictis' explanation of the role of fool and view them as separate from the jester. At least until proven otherwise.
 
Yeah, I don't like this. The reason for that is that "a dice roll" is uncomfortable and yeilds no information, even if you later flip. I'd much rather force people to pick someone as though they have a reason, even if they don't have one, so they don't provide scum with cover to do the same.
I'm of the opinion that voting without purpose is a waste of time and action, and at this point in the game there isn't a real purpose. Voting D1 is effectively playing russian roulette except aimed at other people. Whether you're rolling dice, memeing, or voting based on whatever shaky suspicions you can scrape together at this stage, the end result is that (if you aren't mafia) you're gambling wildly on the hope you get a jackpot. I'm not really much for gambling, myself.

There is no likelihood of somebody saying their role to clarify the set up because we already have it.
Point of order: there is, because the total possible town roles outnumber the total town. That said, claiming your town role can't possibly be positive utility at this juncture, as it would only give the mafia more targeting information.
 
I'm of the opinion that voting without purpose is a waste of time and action, and at this point in the game there isn't a real purpose. Voting D1 is effectively playing russian roulette except aimed at other people. Whether you're rolling dice, memeing, or voting based on whatever shaky suspicions you can scrape together at this stage, the end result is that (if you aren't mafia) you're gambling wildly on the hope you get a jackpot. I'm not really much for gambling, myself.


Point of order: there is, because the total possible town roles outnumber the total town. That said, claiming your town role can't possibly be positive utility at this juncture, as it would only give the mafia more targeting information.
On day one, townies are voting without information. Scum are not, and in fact know exactly who they don't want to lynch. If you let town get away with random votes with no support, you let scum do the same - except they won't be random. No lynch day 1 is bad, but this is somehow worse.
 
On day one, townies are voting without information. Scum are not, and in fact know exactly who they don't want to lynch. If you let town get away with random votes with no support, you let scum do the same - except they won't be random. No lynch day 1 is bad, but this is somehow worse.
QT, what I'm saying is that from my perspective all votes on day 1 are effectively random.
 
QT, what I'm saying is that from my perspective all votes on day 1 are effectively random.
At most, all town votes, and usually not even that. It's not my experience that day one typically goes by without something coming up to give us somewhat better than random targeting, but even if it doesn't, you better beleive scum isn't going to "randomly" push one of their own teammates to death.

If you actually believed town has no better chance of picking out a scum day one than rolling a die, you should be arguing for a no lynch day one. That you seem to think scum will inevitably control the day one lynch and still support it... is not a good look, frankly.
 
I'm of the opinion that voting without purpose is a waste of time and action, and at this point in the game there isn't a real purpose. Voting D1 is effectively playing russian roulette except aimed at other people. Whether you're rolling dice, memeing, or voting based on whatever shaky suspicions you can scrape together at this stage, the end result is that (if you aren't mafia) you're gambling wildly on the hope you get a jackpot. I'm not really much for gambling, myself.


Point of order: there is, because the total possible town roles outnumber the total town. That said, claiming your town role can't possibly be positive utility at this juncture, as it would only give the mafia more targeting information.
The point of voting Day 1 isn't because we know who the scum are, it is so we have to make choices, which eventually gives something for the thread to examine for patterns, and because taking even weak stands forces people to engage and respond and hopefully produce data.

We don't know which roles are actually in play, but we know the set up. There is no reasonable way talking about the set up should result in people giving out their roles. In a closed set up that might happen because (for example) a town roleblocker might suggest the existence of scum power roles, which gives scum a better idea of who to target. But here we know what the scum powers are and what the town roles might be.

It isn't impossible that somebody could leak info anyway, but that isn't really a concern about discussing the set up, since there is always some possibility of that.
 
Let's get some more positions marked out to start building.

ATM, I'm suspect on IH for the negative reaction to me earlier (though very slight here, since the sell on that tracks), Deviljho for being noncommital and enthusiastic and Meso for being Meso.

@ondine @Young Pyromancer @Cyricubed @Totadileplayz @Tykan @mesonoxian Between IH, Deviljho and Meso, who'd you vote if you had a gun to your head right now and why?

@Swarmingu why are you picking me to vote?
 
Let's get some more positions marked out to start building.

ATM, I'm suspect on IH for the negative reaction to me earlier (though very slight here, since the sell on that tracks), Deviljho for being noncommital and enthusiastic and Meso for being Meso.

@ondine @Young Pyromancer @Cyricubed @Totadileplayz @Tykan @mesonoxian Between IH, Deviljho and Meso, who'd you vote if you had a gun to your head right now and why?

@Swarmingu why are you picking me to vote?
Can I choose the bullet? Dying over a debate seems like my way to go.

More Seriously. Right now. I'm more up for Voting for you Shadell over those 3. That Being said if I had to choose to vote for one of those 3 I'd choose Devilijho.

Why? Something seems off. Call it a gut instinct but something you said on the beginning of page 3 made my gut reaction go off and say you're mafia.

This didn't go off on any of those 3, but logically I can see Devilijho having a very flawed reasoning, and as a result of those 3 I'd vote for them.
 
Scia is the only other person that's triggered that gut reaction so far in this game, but since it's just that a Gut Instinct. I don't typically vote with it.
 
Let's get some more positions marked out to start building.

ATM, I'm suspect on IH for the negative reaction to me earlier (though very slight here, since the sell on that tracks), Deviljho for being noncommital and enthusiastic and Meso for being Meso.
Wha'd I do?
@ondine @Young Pyromancer @Cyricubed @Totadileplayz @Tykan @mesonoxian Between IH, Deviljho and Meso, who'd you vote if you had a gun to your head right now and why?

@Swarmingu why are you picking me to vote?
Mesonoxian definitely.

No, wait!... Probably IH, because the justification for the vote on you seemed really weak. But he did a pretty good job seeming townie in his subsequent explanation, which is why I am not already voting him.

LDJ is also pretty suspicious, but there is nothing there I can really hang a vote on. So probably IH, but I am not nearly solid enough on anybody yet.

You might be scum, taking a lead to direct town discussion, but that is wine.
 
For the record: I am Town, but if y'all are gonna Lynch town my utility is low enough you won't lose much.
Personally I'd prefer not to get lynched D1, but then that applies everyone so like... *shrugs*
 
No particular reason really. I just follow my instincts, since we don't have much data yet. Besides, 1st day vote rarely pass anyway.
 
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