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Fyre, Fyre, Burning Skitter

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arachnidsGrip said:
What you've described here (something that is dangerous to know) is an infohazard. A cognitohazard is something that is dangerous to perceive, not merely to know.
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Oh I always get those mixed up.

That would make any potentially self-fulfilling prophecy (which is all of them, since you can't tell if they're self-fulfilling until after they've come about) cognitohazards. Definitely in canon here, as Voldemort made the prophecy possible by trying to avoid it. But I think by and large the general thrust of any story involving prophecy is to not listen -- either it'll come about regardless of whether it's heard, or hearing it makes it comes true, so either way it's not worth the risk of knowing.
 
Ace Dreamer said:
Writing something which is consistent, and 'upward compatible' with later stuff you may (or may not) write is difficult. Some writers with loadsa books under their belt struggle with this, and the Potter-verse was her first book. All-in-all, the Potter-verse is an amazing creation for a first work/series, and should reasonably be respected.
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What she did was the equivalent of someone roughly her age writing a book that was "Tom Swift, only it's Magic".

It's a boarding school novel, from roughly the same era (late 1800s, early 1900s). Likely a genre she bumped into as a kid (I was born in 75 and found Tom Swift, and Nancy Drew and Hardy Boys and all that -- and TS and HB are from the 20s) and had a lot of nostalgia for. So she took that basic plot, that really predictable genre, and slapped magic on it. And she did a good job with that,.

The problems occurred as she aged the characters, and had to deviate from the basic formula, expand the stakes beyond the school and rivalries between old families and kids acting out their parent's politics, and make it all make sense. And that she fumbled hard.

Because, book after book, the stakes and scope expanded -- but the plot beats remained the same. Open warfare was just the struggle for House Cup written in dead bodies and not bonus points, with the same factions as grade school cliques and the same depth, with the adults remaining just as distant and useless and inscrutable as a headmaster is to an 10 year old at his first year in a famous boarding school. And the plot beats got increasingly more confusing as the scope expanded, because a strict teacher who really disliked a kid's dad is one thing, but him also being a murderer and a terrorist is entirely different.

And the themes running through -- the godawful views on slavery, the fact that the protagonist ended up a cop, and the way it was all white washed away like it had been just a school yard rivalry and everyone grew up a bit and buried the past. Which you know, is absolutely fine when you're talking about how you and that bully that was a total dick when you were a kid, but really gets bizarre when it's you and his parents that were murderers, and also he as a murderer, and they tortured god knows how many people including your best friend -- and their political allies tortured you personally -- and you're just like "Well, they're not my favorite people but they did me a solid so bygones".

She had a gift for taking a nostalgic genre, and reimagining it in a fun way. But she tried to transcend that genre, expand it past nostalgia and a very specific theme -- and that she couldn't manage, but she was good enough at the former to paper over the latter. She tried to widen the story beyond a boarding school and kid rivalries, while still following the beats of a story about a boarding school and the rivalries of children.
 
Morat20 said:
What she did was the equivalent of someone roughly her age writing a book that was "Tom Swift, only it's Magic".

It's a boarding school novel, from roughly the same era (late 1800s, early 1900s). Likely a genre she bumped into as a kid (I was born in 75 and found Tom Swift, and Nancy Drew and Hardy Boys and all that -- and TS and HB are from the 20s) and had a lot of nostalgia for. So she took that basic plot, that really predictable genre, and slapped magic on it. And she did a good job with that,.

The problems occurred as she aged the characters, and had to deviate from the basic formula, expand the stakes beyond the school and rivalries between old families and kids acting out their parent's politics, and make it all make sense. And that she fumbled hard.

Because, book after book, the stakes and scope expanded -- but the plot beats remained the same. Open warfare was just the struggle for House Cup written in dead bodies and not bonus points, with the same factions as grade school cliques and the same depth, with the adults remaining just as distant and useless and inscrutable as a headmaster is to an 10 year old at his first year in a famous boarding school. And the plot beats got increasingly more confusing as the scope expanded, because a strict teacher who really disliked a kid's dad is one thing, but him also being a murderer and a terrorist is entirely different.

And the themes running through -- the godawful views on slavery, the fact that the protagonist ended up a cop, and the way it was all white washed away like it had been just a school yard rivalry and everyone grew up a bit and buried the past. Which you know, is absolutely fine when you're talking about how you and that bully that was a total dick when you were a kid, but really gets bizarre when it's you and his parents that were murderers, and also he as a murderer, and they tortured god knows how many people including your best friend -- and their political allies tortured you personally -- and you're just like "Well, they're not my favorite people but they did me a solid so bygones".

She had a gift for taking a nostalgic genre, and reimagining it in a fun way. But she tried to transcend that genre, expand it past nostalgia and a very specific theme -- and that she couldn't manage, but she was good enough at the former to paper over the latter. She tried to widen the story beyond a boarding school and kid rivalries, while still following the beats of a story about a boarding school and the rivalries of children.
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The stakes were honestly pretty up there in just book 1 - they just weren't hammered in as brutally as they were later on.

Philosopher's Stone plot could have been just some treasure at risk of being stolen. That'd be Hardy Boys stakes, I think. But it's not. It's the vanquished evil overlord who killed Harry's parents personally and scares the shit out of literally everyone except Dumbledore being a half-step away from reincarnating.
 
I wonder if Taylor and QA get back to Earth Bet and QA just sends Scion [Solution-Magic!] and [Apparation] and he just poofs out of Earth Bet forever, leaving everyone (especially the Soup Pot Conspiracy) very confused.
 
Morat20 said:
What she did was the equivalent of someone roughly her age writing a book that was "Tom Swift, only it's Magic".

It's a boarding school novel, from roughly the same era (late 1800s, early 1900s). Likely a genre she bumped into as a kid (I was born in 75 and found Tom Swift, and Nancy Drew and Hardy Boys and all that -- and TS and HB are from the 20s) and had a lot of nostalgia for. So she took that basic plot, that really predictable genre, and slapped magic on it. And she did a good job with that,.

The problems occurred as she aged the characters, and had to deviate from the basic formula, expand the stakes beyond the school and rivalries between old families and kids acting out their parent's politics, and make it all make sense. And that she fumbled hard.

Because, book after book, the stakes and scope expanded -- but the plot beats remained the same. Open warfare was just the struggle for House Cup written in dead bodies and not bonus points, with the same factions as grade school cliques and the same depth, with the adults remaining just as distant and useless and inscrutable as a headmaster is to an 10 year old at his first year in a famous boarding school. And the plot beats got increasingly more confusing as the scope expanded, because a strict teacher who really disliked a kid's dad is one thing, but him also being a murderer and a terrorist is entirely different.

And the themes running through -- the godawful views on slavery, the fact that the protagonist ended up a cop, and the way it was all white washed away like it had been just a school yard rivalry and everyone grew up a bit and buried the past. Which you know, is absolutely fine when you're talking about how you and that bully that was a total dick when you were a kid, but really gets bizarre when it's you and his parents that were murderers, and also he as a murderer, and they tortured god knows how many people including your best friend -- and their political allies tortured you personally -- and you're just like "Well, they're not my favorite people but they did me a solid so bygones".

She had a gift for taking a nostalgic genre, and reimagining it in a fun way. But she tried to transcend that genre, expand it past nostalgia and a very specific theme -- and that she couldn't manage, but she was good enough at the former to paper over the latter. She tried to widen the story beyond a boarding school and kid rivalries, while still following the beats of a story about a boarding school and the rivalries of children.
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Yup. I can agree with that. Really, could just about see three books set at the school, then moving to another PoV character for another trilogy, maybe a third one for a final trilogy.

The Next Generation bits at the end of the Potter books - just painful, smelled/felt like pre-1950s children's fiction. 'Children getting their parent's lives' stuff. Not something you'd expect from a end-of-20thC work.

So, Potter-verse, deeply flawed, still amazing bit of 'mythologucal engineering' (just don't look at the magical humans, too hard).

...

If Wizarding Britain is to continue (i.e. New Gen be credible) then there needs to be a world-morph. Mundane Britain needs to stop progressing, maybe roll-back, a bit, to end of the 1980s. Surveillance tech needs to wither away, the Internet to die, hard. Which is, arguably, pretty monstrous (particularly if you're a cell/mobile phone addict :) ).

Saurial spotting a world which looked as if that sort of... 'temporal pause' was happening to it, might be a bit... irked. And, looking for a Skitter (who's on an otherwise bad path) to 'light a fire under them', yeah, I could see her doing that.

Saurial: Fyre One!
 
You don't even have to go back as far a Tom Swift for the inspirations.
Most of Enid Blyton's work outside of Noddy is based around small groups of boarding school children.
Also The Worst Witch, first published in 1974 is pretty much Harry Potter with a reading age of 6-9 rather than 9-12. It was also well thought of enough to be on the Initial Key Stage 2 reading list when the government put it together in 1991.
 
Went back and fixed my spelling in my last post - i also changed the name of one of the critters i listed to the right one - malaclaw - instead of the name of a magical dodo.
 
Jadesteele said:
How about anyone who's read the works of tolken? He DID write a certain story series ABOUT what is the most famous horcrux/Phalactory in fictiondom. Or maybe anyone who's played D&D and gone up against (or worked with (makos)) a lich? maybe the most knowledgeable about such things in the Wizarding world that was needed was a bright and at-least-slightly nerdy muggleborn.

Now (and to try and steer the train back towards Taylorhood rather then derail completely Too late) with regards to weather Taylor permakilled voldemonkey in the ministry I'd have to go with unlikely - yes, there was no smoky wraith seen escaping, but you have to remember that the Dork lord has - much like harry - the protection of both 'the prophesy' and literative causality - however, i suspect that he would be currently once again suffering from a bad case of princess bride syndrome.

As for the spiders? there are so many insect and invertebrate in canon HP that taylor could control - Fire crabs (the ones who literally grow GEMSTONES on their shell), billiwigs (who's bite grants short-term flight), Malaclaws who produce an ickor that works like Mr Black' bad luck aura... not to mention if she decides to pick up a gift or two; bitch's normal dogs are one thing, but bitch's power when used upon a Cerberus?

edit 6.7.24 - fixed spelling and changed critter to right one instead of a bird.
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Actually, I'd say that Taylor/Skitter is outside of the Prophecy and could bypass any Fate/Destiny/Prophecy related protections to perma-killing the Dark Lord the Prophecy refers to.
On the other hand, since Harry didn't notice anything going on with his scar and the scarcrux, I'd say that while the mobile/ independent piece of Voldy is truly dead and disconnected, the Horcuxes are still around, and can potentially do what the Diary did.

Fire crabs are definitely going to be on her "want" list.
And if there are any Blast-Ended Skrewts left, she'll take then too.

Ace Dreamer said:
Yup. I can agree with that. Really, could just about see three books set at the school, then moving to another PoV character for another trilogy, maybe a third one for a final trilogy.

The Next Generation bits at the end of the Potter books - just painful, smelled/felt like pre-1950s children's fiction. 'Children getting their parent's lives' stuff. Not something you'd expect from a end-of-20thC work.

So, Potter-verse, deeply flawed, still amazing bit of 'mythologucal engineering' (just don't look at the magical humans, too hard).

...

If Wizarding Britain is to continue (i.e. New Gen be credible) then there needs to be a world-morph. Mundane Britain needs to stop progressing, maybe roll-back, a bit, to end of the 1980s. Surveillance tech needs to wither away, the Internet to die, hard. Which is, arguably, pretty monstrous (particularly if you're a cell/mobile phone addict :) ).

Saurial spotting a world which looked as if that sort of... 'temporal pause' was happening to it, might be a bit... irked. And, looking for a Skitter (who's on an otherwise bad path) to 'light a fire under them', yeah, I could see her doing that.

Saurial: Fyre One!
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Yeah, the Epilogue is highly unpopular for many, many reasons. Cursed Child doesn't exist for me.
The Statute of Secrecy would be lucky to last a decade from the end of the books not counting the Epilogue (2008), would probably not make 15 years (2013), and definitely would be long dead in 20 years (2018)

Forget the surveillance state - arguably the non-magical government might try to keep a lid on things long enough for reforms and a controlled exposure. The internet, social media, especially things like YouTube, would be the end of things. Plus, it'd only be a matter of time before magic got caught on a live TV camera broadcast.
 
Brainstorm813 said:
Considering that apparently the shards leaving is what causes the destruction of the planets in question, that might not be very likely. Also, instead of leaving, he can simply call all other entities to his location.
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That's because their method of leaving is to scrunch 10^27 earths into one 3 dimensional spot and ride the shockwave like the multiverse's biggest Orion Drive to their next destination. I threw in the [Apparation] bit because that's a more efficient magical teleportation.
 
On reflection, I wonder if the issue is really Dumbledore, or if Riddle's defense curse is somehow self-protecting in much the same way rootkits are...
mp3.1415player said:
She'd heard plenty of stories of him playing cricket in school and university, and knew he had always said he was a very good fast bowler, but this was the first time she'd seen a practical use for that sort of skill.
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Nice backhanded compliment on cricket not having practical uses. :rofl:
mp3.1415player said:
"We have an overabundance of idiots who want power and lack scruples. I'd just prefer it if the next one wasn't the same bloody one three times in a row!"
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Well at least it makes it slightly more predictable. Imagine if it were some random stranger!
mp3.1415player said:
the rest of the people in the room seemed to suddenly realize they were there again, causing a number of them to twitch violently and one poor man to leap to his feet clutching at his chest, scream weakly, and dash out without paying Tom.
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I wonder if this is why most people don't seem to use that spell?
 
forklifter16 said:
I would guess most people don't use that spell because Xeno invented it? It's as good a theory as any other.
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Actually, his wife did:
mp3.1415player said:
"An unusual version of a notice me not spell, covering a defined zone, combined with a number of privacy and silencing spells," he explained. "My late wife came up with it. It has its limitations, the main one being it can only be cast on a fixed location, rather than a person or a moving conveyance, but it's ideal for keeping conversations private," he explained to her raised eyebrow.
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