Ghostdevil
The Devil of Ghosts
- Location
- United States
...Wait we have actions? HOLY SHIT we have actions!!!
From Stone to the Stars
- Thread starter Redium
- Start date
- Original Alt. History
ThatGazzer
Minds Eye Bind
- Location
- PNW
- Pronouns
- They/Them
I don't understand, is this some new mechanic?
I think I can recall a time, long ago? In the stories of my Grandfathers.
- Location
- The Middle of the Howling Wilderness
Ghostdevil
The Devil of Ghosts
- Location
- United States
We have become the spirits, we guide our civilization now, no mortal man or woman controls anything ANYMORE!
May Kasper have mercy on their souls.
Thats a big leap forward. Limestone mortar is just so much vastly more available than calcinated shells and bone that we can expand our use of it immensely.
Sounds like the trees were under some kind of pressure, so when they were cut down theres a snap
This basically determines how much we want to be a religious center. The topmost option would give us the biggest cultural influence, but exposes us to the most as well.
The Hunt [Wonderful World] [Trial By Fire] [Flat Arrow Outlook] [Martial] [Admin] (5 Actions) - The call of the hunt is a grand and beastly instinct. Long have the People felt the thrill of the chase. It is a solitary thing, one known only by hunter and the hunted. It is also an instinct out of place in this changing world.
Going to want this soon
I suspect this unlocks after maxing out the Hill
The World in Miniature [Wonderful World] [Diplomacy] [Admin] (7 actions) - The world is a grand place, seemingly endless in scope. The People's exploration and search for wonders has pushed them to find a way to more effectively communicate discoveries with each other. Trail markers are a start, but they are not easily portable. More can be done.
A map! Pretty important for connectivity!
I guess this is behind finishing the temple.
Temple at the Cave of Stars [Art] [Admin] (1 Action) - The People have come a long way in creating a thing of beauty upon a nexus of spiritual power. Somewhere rituals can be completed and secret arts can be learned.
@Redium
Number of actions to completion? Just one?
The Hill (Crystal Lake, The Fingers) [Stone-Skinned] [Admin] (2 Actions) - A hill made by man. A simple construct, but one that greatly raises the defensive value of a settlement.
Want to do this sometime, but its probably going to be put off. A lot.
New Trails [Wondrous World] [Admin] (6 Actions) - Inspired by the Fire Relay, these small trails are cut into the innumerable forests that surround the People. Serving as akin to veins in the body, they promote the free movement of goods and people.
Improving centralization greatly without the strain. Want this too, but its also probably going to be delayed
Ghostdevil
The Devil of Ghosts
- Location
- United States
This might also be a lead to writing, since were getting closer to the idea of deriving meaning from markings and things of that nature.
I am thinking, we complete the temple, then start the hunt. Also Study fire, because @Redium has mentioned that lots of goodies are hidden behind this option.
At least one food up option
This. The first three civilizations to discover bronze in the eastern Mediterranean: Egypt, the Hittites, and the Mycenaeans expanded explosively until they crashed into each other. They had uncontested dominance until the Bronze Age Collapse brought the latter two low, and dealt Egypt a wound it never really recovered from.
Yes.
It will probably push your values when you get an evolution opportunity. Values evolve either randomly (as a result of completing a megaproject, for example) or as part of the narrative (i.e. making a great social or military reform). When values randomly evolve, it isn't an equal chance, those dice are weighted. Thus, if you normally pick a lot of actions that are violent or elitist, your violent and elitist traits will be more likely to evolve.
No. The Northlands have Herding too, but they're the only other discovered faction which does.
If you're starving, you're likely to outright collapse during war. For each tier of starvation, it would reduce the number of won raid rolls necessary before the enemy can sack a settlement and would add an exponentially large malus on raid rolls.
It's still fluid, it needs more time to solidify.
Yes.
It's terrifying them. You're fairly close to changing your Diplo status to: Bearer of two masks, spirit and demon.
More geographic isolation. The Mountain Clans simply lacked the population to be a real threat until South Lake started collapsing and they sucked in innumerable refugees. Arrow Lake outnumbered the Mountain Clans 20-to-1 before then so it was never a big concern. Intra-tribal violence was a bigger factor in day-to-day life.
The Tribe of the West got hit hardest by sickness and the weather.
You could, but it would be better to deal with the Island Makers. From the Fingers to the Tribe of the West would be a months or even year long expedition. It's not worth making actual trades and any diplomatic contacts would be minimally effective. The Island Makers would be more than happy to act as an intermediary for your goods, however.
Yes. Mica's just folded into Gems right now. It'll eventually be shifted over into Cosmetics in the future. They found the Mica in the hills north of their settlement. It was near the lake just north of them.
Intellectually and rationally? No. Scientific fields in general suffer from bias in that the scientific paradigm only changes when old scientists die. No one likes to have their life's work completely overturned, so older scientists tend to resist new ideas. There's a rational component to this; the burden of proof does rest on the scientist proposing new ideas, but older scientists will resist until they die or retire. It's only when the new science's peers rise to professorships and become prominent in academia that new ideas fully replace the old.
When Niels Bohr put forward his revolutionary model of the atom, he nearly failed his Doctorate program. Everyone dismissed the massive discovery because they didn't like this kid overturning the consensus. It was only because no one could prove Bohr wrong during his thesis defense that he was allowed to pass (with the lowest possible mark).
Einstein also, for example, did not received credit for his discovery of Relativity, likely one of the two most important modern discoveries in physics. Everyone thought at the time thought it was hokey. They didn't think it was real, even though it best fit the evidence, because it was strange. The Noble Prize Einstein won was for something completely different: the photoelectric effect. It wasn't until years later, when most of his detractors were dead that Relativity was recognized as Einstein's greatest achievement. Even Einstein, when he was old, completely rejected the brand new quantum mechanics: "God does not play dice," since he didn't like the implications of the theory.
This is one of the two noted problems of modern science (the other being the replication crisis). New science is not proven right, until it is left.
Yes. Like, one of the quirks that the People are going to notice later, is that compared to other ethnic groups, they tend to have small hands and feet and tend to retain fat better than foreigners. (I do not mean that in an innuendo way at all.) There's going to be other, subtler differences, but that's the big one.
Dogs will probably be around forever. The Ymaryn had trees, you have dogs.
I think you guys are due for your next dog domestication upgrade if you want to grab it...
For Vales: I Want To Be The Very Best, Flat Arrow Outlook, and Retributive Justice are more-or-less things that they expect. Elite values are very common and some type of violence related value is common too. Retributive Justice isn't common, but it's close. A lot of your neighbours are more likely to develop Vendetta or Social Harmony values than Justice ones. Justice is the mid point between Social Harmony and Vendetta, so you're only a bit out of place compared to your warlike and peaceful neighbours, respectively.
Stone-Skinned is pretty alien except for among the Island Makers and Arrow Lake. Both of them have values that are roughly equivalent. The Island Makers focus more on land development, while Arrow Lake ties them closer with Mother Earth.
Trial By Fire is very much not expected. People generally aren't terribly willing to beat their heads against the wall until the wall collapses. The Island Makers attribute it to influence you picked up from the Hundred Bands while Arrow Lake just kind of ignores it. The ones who 'get it' the best are actually the Peace Builders, they have a Silk Glove, Iron Hand line of traits that's sort of similar. That one focuses more on conflicts with other humans instead of the spirits, but it's a similar mentality. "I'm going to hope for the best, so help me if you make me bring out the worst."
Wondrous World is completely different to all of your neighbours except the Northlands. They don't really get why your people waste so much time focusing on natural beauty. It's not like 'beauty' will fill your stomach. The Northlands don't really understand value-wise, but they 'get it' by being Nomadic.
Arrow Lake's Values are:
Cultural: I Want To Be The Very Best (picked up from you), Culture of Commerce
Honour: Ancestral Deeds, All For One
Spiritual: Womb of the Earth, Harmonious Ties
Ancestral Deeds: Value your own excellence and that of your family.
All For One: When one of us is in trouble, we all should back them up.
Womb of the Earth: The earth is a caring, nurturing mother. Just as a husband supports their wife, so too should we support the Earth.
Harmonious Ties: The first good is the good of the group, individuals working in accord.
Culture of Commerce: Trade is good and money is better.
Their government is an Elder Council who are subordinate to the Most Ancient, the wisest (oldest) member of that council.
Your Holy Orders aren't really focused on war. The Ember-Eyes are important builders and researchers, the Fangs are great hunters, and the Frost-Scarred are also great researchers. It's just that war's been the focus for them for the last few turns. Now that you're at peace, they're more likely to take on peace time roles.
You don't really have any non-violent Holy Orders; your values don't really allow it.
The main difficulty that you're going to have with domestication is that you're not really consciously doing it. When you had the choice to make dogs smarter, that was simply the People deciding they liked smart dogs. Those ones were fed more, bred more, etc. There wasn't really the concept back then to try and turn them into something specific. It just kind of happened.
The People don't really understand that you can breed certain plants and crops in order to get specific results down the line. That requires concepts and science that they don't understand. Selective breeding wasn't really conceived of as a practice until the Romans and Carthaginians and it wasn't formally understood and codified until the 11th century. Scientific understanding of the practice didn't exist until the 18th century.
Yes. It's truly 3 to do it, but Aeva decided to double down and get two of them out of the way. Temples are beyond your tech level right now so you're paying a bit of an action penalty, even with Rush Builders.
You've already picked up Symbolic Tally which is the very, very first step of getting writing.
Ghostdevil
The Devil of Ghosts
- Location
- United States
uhoh, if we ever get to the modern era with that kind of trait, the obesity epidemic will be truly glorious.
- Location
- Canada
I wander if its possible to make our dogs bigger, breed that trait, so we get SMART,and MASSIVE dogs.
They wont be as fast as horses in open plains, but in forests and as an ambush mount. Well, I can see the helpfulness of such beasts.
Edit: With the videos I remember from a while back, we are in canada, were we dont have much in a way of tamable or domistacable creatures about. Work with what we do have and make them the best!
They wont be as fast as horses in open plains, but in forests and as an ambush mount. Well, I can see the helpfulness of such beasts.
Edit: With the videos I remember from a while back, we are in canada, were we dont have much in a way of tamable or domistacable creatures about. Work with what we do have and make them the best!
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Well its not exactly new. More of an old problem that did not leave. The scientific method mostly makes it more difficult to defend invalid concepts, as its good at disproving things, but doesn't make it any easier to advance a new concept.
Its just human nature really. Sink that much into any task and you grow attached.
Rome had that too. It SHOULD have killed them, but killed all their enemies instead.
That looks rather familiar!
Its mostly that "this one is good, I will be nice to it" is a tangible competitive advantage. If for nothing else people would slaughter the ornery Orker before the docile one first.
Ah, cool, so I'm thinking something like this for my vote:
[][Party] Yes, Aeva ended up encouraging Peace Builder shaman to come.
[][Action] Expand Hunting (Dogs) [Martial]
[][Action] Expand Aquaculture (Fishing) [Admin]
[][Admin] The Hunt [Wonderful World] [Trial By Fire] [Flat Arrow Outlook] [Martial] [Admin]
[][Art] Temple at the Cave of Stars [Art] [Admin]
Reasonings:
-Cultural dominance by having the first Temple is a big advantage. Especially if everyone comes to us and see our Natural Wonder backed Temple that they can't replicate.
-Hunting and Aquaculture to make sure we don't starve. The food situation is still pretty bad, we want two food actions to make sure that we can tolerate one failing.
--Also since we're near a Dog Upgrade, we might get one that way
--Fishing because it's the most weather resistant aquaculture option for now
-Starting the Hunt is pretty important to deal with our transition to Settled, before we wipe out our local reserves.
-Then finish the temple because...I'm picking the Open to All option and we want the temple finished while its fresh
I wander if its possible to make our dogs bigger, breed that trait, so we get SMART,and MASSIVE dogs.
They wont be as fast as horses in open plains, but in forests and as an ambush mount. Well, I can see the helpfulness of such beasts.
Edit: With the videos I remember from a while back, we are in canada, were we dont have much in a way of tamable or domistacable creatures about. Work with what we do have and make them the best!
Carnivores make poor mounts. They take too much supply, most obligate and preferential carnivores are Burst sprinters rather than long marchers.
- Location
- Queensland, Australia
A question @Redium We still have the 'locked in' actions happening right? If so can you put them somewhere?
And if we do still have them, then we're probably going to want to see if we can do any action that has 2/3 continuous turns which are...
Trade - Pearl Divers
Aquaculture - Fishing
We're also told that Quinoa is a crop that grows very well in the colder climate, which means we're really going to want to start getting that locked in for food security
Which means my thoughts are we should do the following:
[ ][Action] Trade (Pearl Divers)
[ ][Action] Expand Agriculture (Quinoa)
[ ][Admin] Expand Aquaculture (Fishing)
[ ][Art] Temple at the Cave of Stars
Locks another food gathering action in, locks in permanent trade for salt which really good at this time, completes the temple and starts work towards locking in another food production action, this one being one that is relatively climate resistant. At least, for cold weather.
And if we do still have them, then we're probably going to want to see if we can do any action that has 2/3 continuous turns which are...
Trade - Pearl Divers
Aquaculture - Fishing
We're also told that Quinoa is a crop that grows very well in the colder climate, which means we're really going to want to start getting that locked in for food security
Which means my thoughts are we should do the following:
[ ][Action] Trade (Pearl Divers)
[ ][Action] Expand Agriculture (Quinoa)
[ ][Admin] Expand Aquaculture (Fishing)
[ ][Art] Temple at the Cave of Stars
Locks another food gathering action in, locks in permanent trade for salt which really good at this time, completes the temple and starts work towards locking in another food production action, this one being one that is relatively climate resistant. At least, for cold weather.
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Shadows
Sacred Priestess of the Benevolent Dice Gods
- Location
- USS Civilian, DDG-214
- Pronouns
- She/Her
So here's what I'm looking at:
Expand Hunting (Herd Animals) [Martial] - Let's get our Orker on. Also more dog domestication.
Expand Agriculture (Quinoa) [Admin] - I'd really like to get us a cold-resistant food source like Quinoa is.
Study Stone [Stone-Skinned] [Art] - Why this as opposed to fire? We might learn how to make Roman cement, if we're lucky. (not incredibly hard, we already have the components, just need salt water from somewhere...)
Temple at the Cave of Stars [Art] [Admin] (1 Action) - This needs no explaining, plus it's almost already done.
Expand Hunting (Herd Animals) [Martial] - Let's get our Orker on. Also more dog domestication.
Expand Agriculture (Quinoa) [Admin] - I'd really like to get us a cold-resistant food source like Quinoa is.
Study Stone [Stone-Skinned] [Art] - Why this as opposed to fire? We might learn how to make Roman cement, if we're lucky. (not incredibly hard, we already have the components, just need salt water from somewhere...)
Temple at the Cave of Stars [Art] [Admin] (1 Action) - This needs no explaining, plus it's almost already done.
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Z000
If this is trash, then find me in the dumpster
- Location
- Viet Nam
kinda
it ending soon or something since the QM did say that the Mammoth is gonna go dead in a few turn
Foster cultural traits that oppose obesity. Knowing SV, I suspect that a lot of the social and political systems that could minimize obesity will be taken.
I am partial to the Psychotic Swamp HickTM theory of Roman supremacy, even if it isn't very histographically supported.
There's only so many ways a society can look different, especially relatively early in history. Possessing land dominance traits is ancestral and fairly beneficial near the dawn of agriculture. After having introduced so many factions, I'm suddenly very cognizant as to why AN had no more than 4 or 5 beside the Ymaryn on the field at the same time. I've got 9 and there's likely going to be 2 more popping up in the future. Meaningfully differentiating them is tough.
Yes, thank you for reminding me. I've added those properly. You can also pick a Tribute Focus (they're listed) in the actions menu. You're also right that Aquaculture (Fish) and Trade (Pearl Divers) are close to locking in as well.
Not so much an ice age as Canada. You regularly get 3+ feet of snow every year on average over the winter and that's normal. During an actual ice age, you would be buried under a glacier a kilometer thick in the west and drowning in an inland sea in the east.
I have never commented on the long-term sustainability of mastodons.
- Location
- The Middle of the Howling Wilderness
Obviously, we evolve Trial By Fire to it's ultimate form: "Never Skip Leg Day"
Z000
If this is trash, then find me in the dumpster
- Location
- Viet Nam
i remember you did say it in the earlier part of the thread when i was reading through it
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Given the opportunity for a dog upgrade, the 2 lock-in possibilties, and the temple, I'd say our actions for this turn are no less pre-decided than they ever were, as this combination:
[][Action] Expand Hunting (Dogs) [Martial]
[][Action]Trade (Pearl Divers) [Wondrous World] [Diplomacy] [Martial]
[][Admin] Expand Aquaculture (Fishing) [Admin]
[][Art] Temple at the Cave of Stars [Art] [Admin]
The exception is the vote about what to do about the cave, where I admit to being tempted by that legitimacy.
On a separate noted, what does Undergo Ordeal actually do?
[][Action] Expand Hunting (Dogs) [Martial]
[][Action]Trade (Pearl Divers) [Wondrous World] [Diplomacy] [Martial]
[][Admin] Expand Aquaculture (Fishing) [Admin]
[][Art] Temple at the Cave of Stars [Art] [Admin]
The exception is the vote about what to do about the cave, where I admit to being tempted by that legitimacy.
On a separate noted, what does Undergo Ordeal actually do?
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Good point.
This is counterproductive. Hunting Orkers is for glory, not food.
Food is Herd Animals.
Though obesity is a thing because it's honestly a survival strategy in the stone age. The most effective ways to deselect it is to have stable and reliable food supplies, with either charity, equality or extreme elitism backing that.
Ah...changing my proposed lineup then:
[] Plan Cultural Domination
-[][Party] Yes, Aeva ended up encouraging Peace Builder shaman to come.
-[][Action] Trade (Pearl Divers) [Wondrous World] [Diplomacy] [Martial]
-[][Action] The Hunt [Wonderful World] [Trial By Fire] [Flat Arrow Outlook] [Martial] [Admin]
-[][Admin] Expand Aquaculture (Fishing) [Admin]
-[][Art] Temple at the Cave of Stars [Art] [Admin]
Make the Trade and Fishing locked in, finish the temple so everyone can visit...and seriously, start on The Hunt before we start doing too much damage to our reserves and hitting starvation.
Dogs can wait a turn
Sol Zagato
senseless brute
I wouldn't worry about it. Arctic aboriginals get chubby, but don't really have bad obesity problems given a modern diet (dental health, diabetes and addictions though!)
It's southwest US natives who have terrible genetic disposition towards obesity. The documentary I watched (NOT the linked article, which is from Diabetes Care) indicated it was due to their adaptations to survive crop failure.
Effects of a Traditional Lifestyle on Obesity in Pima Indians
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- Location
- Queensland, Australia
Going to post my plan now then.
[ ] Plan Securing Food
-[ ] [Party] Yes, Aeva permitted the Peace Builder shaman to visit.
-[ ] [Action] Trade (Pearl Divers)
-[ ] [Action] Expand Agriculture (Quinoa)
-[ ] [Admin] Expand Aquaculture (Fishing)
-[ ] [Art] Temple at the Cave of Stars
-[ ] [Tribute] Food
I don't feel like we should be encouraging the Peace Builders to visit the temple, at least not yet. We're still too low on the culture for us to be sure that they Peace Builders won't basically co-opt our cultural efforts and make the Temple turn into something that makes us more like them. That said, yeah, we're going to want them to visit because it's a way of using what culture we have against their efforts by impressing on them how superior we are. Just don't want them always around.
As for the actions... As I said before, lock in the two actions that we can lock in this turn, finish building the temple and then start work on locking in the plant we can cultivate that is winter-resistant. Also, tribute focus is on food, because we really want to set up a settlement near the temple as soon as we can, but we don't have enough food surplus to actually do it this turn, so hopefully by focusing on food this much, we'll get enough of a surplus even if the weather doesn't improve.
[ ] Plan Securing Food
-[ ] [Party] Yes, Aeva permitted the Peace Builder shaman to visit.
-[ ] [Action] Trade (Pearl Divers)
-[ ] [Action] Expand Agriculture (Quinoa)
-[ ] [Admin] Expand Aquaculture (Fishing)
-[ ] [Art] Temple at the Cave of Stars
-[ ] [Tribute] Food
I don't feel like we should be encouraging the Peace Builders to visit the temple, at least not yet. We're still too low on the culture for us to be sure that they Peace Builders won't basically co-opt our cultural efforts and make the Temple turn into something that makes us more like them. That said, yeah, we're going to want them to visit because it's a way of using what culture we have against their efforts by impressing on them how superior we are. Just don't want them always around.
As for the actions... As I said before, lock in the two actions that we can lock in this turn, finish building the temple and then start work on locking in the plant we can cultivate that is winter-resistant. Also, tribute focus is on food, because we really want to set up a settlement near the temple as soon as we can, but we don't have enough food surplus to actually do it this turn, so hopefully by focusing on food this much, we'll get enough of a surplus even if the weather doesn't improve.
Professor Vesca
Good News Everyone!
This is incorrect. A recent WoG lists us as culturally dominant, and they can't contest our temple without their own Natural Wonder.
You can't just coopt someone else's temple like that without literal magic. Not in the stone age.