From Stone to the Stars

In this time period, raids are mostly destructive. Hitting someone right before winter and burning their supplies can easily cause mass starvation. It's extremely difficult for raids to be profitable due to the lack of a good that serves as intermediate wealth (i.e. gold) and the inherent bulk of transferring large amounts of food. In most cases, raids are a net loss of food. The only thing raids are good for is crushing rivals and kidnapping women.

Your area is also big enough that even if you wiped out the Hundred Bands (extremely unlikely to do in its entirety), you would still face pressure from several other tribes and directions.

Ah sorry I think I need to go into more detail on what I mean to raid an use the tribes we raid for food.

I meant it as a means to keep the raids fueled, while our settlers remain home to produce food and stuff for themselves.

Also the raids isn't meant to wipe them all out, more to establish ourselves as head honcho, also the experience should be great for our warriors.
 
I'd probably want to highlight that without writing, if we don't use the Lime production, its likely to be lost pretty soon.
 
Also, a focus on unmartial traditions and labour intensive works such as aqua culture is a poor move when raids are a coming, or to be launched.

Aquaculture is currently low hanging fruit. You've got: water-grass, fishing, and mussel collecting rolled into it. All of those are actually fairly low calories investment. You haven't gotten to the point where you really need to have high quality infrastructure. Most aquaculture gathering doesn't take more than going for a walk and carrying a bucket. You have entrapment fishing so most of your fishing is done by leaving buckets in the water and baiting fish to swim into them.

Water-grass is harvested in a canoe. You paddle up and then strip the grains from the stalks and dump them into the canoe. At the end of the day, the entire canoe is swept up and the water-grass seeds are stored for food.

Compared to hunting (your second most energy providing activity), aquaculture actually has a much lower initial investment. It's pay off is not as high, though, and it doesn't store as well.

That sounds pretty cool to my 23-year-old brain too. :V

I had the best cousins.

I meant it as a means to keep the raids fueled, while our settlers remain home to produce food and stuff for themselves.

Raiding tends to be a calorie negative activity. For example, a round trip to Northern Hundred Bands is a solid week. It would be much, much easier to hunt or gather during that time. You wouldn't have to expend the calories of travelling and could instead immediately acquire food.

Currently, storage of food is extremely poor. Only the People have any ability to store food (at least among the other tribes you've directly dealt with) and that's by sugaring meat or making pemmican. If you hit another tribe, they're not likely to have much food on hand. If they did have any food available, you would have to spend hours processing it for storage and that is a terrible idea in hostile territory. You need a staple crop (corn, rice, beans, wheat, etc.) that can easily be stored once it's dried in order to make stealing food worthwhile. You're close to developing one, but you haven't quite gotten it yet.

Also the raids isn't meant to wipe them all out, more to establish ourselves as head honcho, also the experience should be great for our warriors.

What does being head honcho give you? None of the tribes you've encountered really have any resources that you might want to take. Blackstone is one of the two most valuable resources you could have in the Neolithic Age, the other is yet undiscovered by anyone.

The only thing a vassal tribe might be able to do for you is act as forced labour or sex slaves. Since you don't have a concept of 'wealth' yet, there's not really anything that's worth taking. Food is easier to get without stealing it since the act of stealing takes a lot of energy.

Realistically, the only reason people fought in the Neolithic was over control of land. Improving land to the point where it's going to be profitable is extremely difficult. It's significantly easier to force another group into starvation during a harsh winter and then take over their prepared fields come spring. Chopping, burning down or managing forests for productive use is extremely difficult labour any only pays off a generation later. Killing and stealing pays of next year.

Vote Locked!

[X] [Fire] Praise his mastery of fire's spirit
[X] [Action] Don't go hungry, idiots! (Expand Aquaculture)


The map's been updated and I've added some goodies to the front page if people want to take a look.
 
Holy Ember-Eyes
Deep in the People's history, the Ember-Eyes were born. Based out of the holy site of the Fingers, they claim descent from from those who fought in the most ancient wars. They specialize in the use of fire and night-fighting, skills supposedly learned at the foot of the spirits themselves.
Effects: increased effectiveness of fire as a weapon of war
Found it :p, so fire is a pretty good early tool... might lead to innovation of things that use fire, Like using it to forge, using it to cause explosions. Stuff like that
 
Found it :p, so fire is a pretty good early tool... might lead to innovation of things that use fire, Like using it to forge, using it to cause explosions. Stuff like that

I'm kinda hoping we use it to make Greek Fire or something like that later down the line. Then again, before reading the full description it almost sounded like we'd created our own group of ancient special forces or something just based on the name.
 
I'm kinda hoping we use it to make Greek Fire or something like that later down the line. Then again, before reading the full description it almost sounded like we'd created our own group of ancient special forces or something just based on the name.
Greek Fire, IIRC needed quicklime and pitch. We got the precursors to the precursors if we like fire enough.
 
Realistically, the only reason people fought in the Neolithic was over control of land. Improving land to the point where it's going to be profitable is extremely difficult. It's significantly easier to force another group into starvation during a harsh winter and then take over their prepared fields come spring. Chopping, burning down or managing forests for productive use is extremely difficult labour any only pays off a generation later. Killing and stealing pays of next year.

If that's the case, what was the motivation of the Northern Raiders back in the day?
 
10.0 Ember-Eyed
[X] [Fire] Praise his mastery of fire's spirit
[X] [Action] Don't go hungry, idiots! (Expand Aquaculture)

The Night of Horrors slowly faded to a bad memory amongst the People. Springs bloomed strongly in the years after the great snow, bounty returning to the world. Clear were the spirits in their testing of the People, but also were they free with rewards. Food reserves that had once been stretched close to breaking, slowly refilled. Empty homes, abandoned after they were crushed under winter's weight, were slowly occupied as more People were born and replaced those lost.

It was almost like the horrors of the past were reduced to a simple bad memory. The People did not forget, however, and ideas flourished.

The driving force for the People was a simple question: How had a youth had mastered the spirits of fire, the most unpredictable thing that the People had ever encountered, and turned it into a weapon of war? After the young man had finally recovered from his injuries, he had sheepishly admitted that all he had done was wrap his spear in birch bark. It looked impressive, but there was no magic there.

The answer was... unsatisfactory, many thought. It was long known that birch bark burned quickly and it was often sought by the People for use as fire starters; there was no mastery of spirit there. Instead, what truly captured the People's interest was the magic that turned sea shells into liquid stone. Lime, as it was being called. How could sea shells, an element of water, combine with fire in order to get solid stone? It made no sense. Even the wisest of the People could offer no satisfactory explanation on why this was so.

Eventually, the disappointed were galvanized, trying to find something that would provide a proper answer. Over time, the People became quite skilled in the art of burning things. Instead of fire pits, they realized that surrounding the fire with a large clay vessel, actually increased the flame. The same amount of wood stacked inside one of these vessels would burn down to ember faster than a fire pit. Once the fire had burned out, the People could easily break open the vessel and retrieve the leftover sea shells.

It was inside one of these vessels, a kiln, that something new was discovered. One of the magic-seekers added a handful of Berrystone, thinking to add their brilliance to a batch of lime. The batch came out just as white in the end, but the Berrystones were fundamentally changed. Instead of their deep, berry colour, they came out shinning like the sun. Translucent and yellow in colour, the Berrystones were completely transformed. Somehow, the crystals had absorbed the essence of flame; Berrystone became Emberstone.

Even more questions thundered through the hearts of the People. How was that possible? How could fire interact with sea shell and crystal, transforming them into something that was clearly different? The questions bantered back and forth, across cook fires and on long walks on the hunt, and slowly led to a new bred amongst the People. These individuals were ones more skilled in the matters spiritual, masters of the unseen forces that governed the People.

Instead of focusing on hunting, gathering, or leading the People, they focused on appeasing the spirits. Given how much the weather had improved, their efforts were clearly working. In thanks, and to repay an almost unfathomably large debt, the Big Man of the People organized the consistent delivery of food to these shaman. No longer would they need to hunt; their efforts pleasing the spirits would serve the People to a far greater degree.

Foremost among these new shaman, were the Ember-Eyed. A secretive group, even amongst the taciturn shaman, they practiced the secret arts of lime fire. Just as the element could transform sea shells or crystal, they said that it could transform people. Now only did they study the uses fire could be put towards, but they used it to strengthen their bodies through secret rites. Only the wisest and strongest amongst the People were selected for refinement, but all those that underwent the process turned into fearsome warriors. Their numbers were few, for now, but as the months passed, more and more forged their Emberstone bead and were accepted into the secret order.

As the Ember-Eyed trained in secret, the People were spurred to better themselves in turn. They knew that the spirits would come again to test them. They enjoyed respite and ease now, but it was only a matter of time before the spirits believed them ready for their next Ordeal. From the last, the People knew that there were two areas in which they were deficient.

First, in their housing. The Great Winter had killed many of the People. Not through the cold, but through the sheer crushing mass of snow that winter dumped in a single night. Vague ideas had slowly begun to surface of improving the homes of the People to become more resilient and better reinforced. If the weather was again to turn against the People, they would need some way to survive it.

On the other hand, there was a competing realm of thought; the People should instead focus on finding a way to better their palisade. When the Hundred Bands had raided them, it was almost impossible for the People to actually push them back once they were forced within its walls. The Hundred Bands had not been back to bring violence upon them, but that could change at any time. Just as the People were taking time in order to rejuvenate and heal from recent loses, it was likely that the Hundred Bands were doing the same.

In the end, it was simple: how were the People most likely to be tested? By weather or violence?

In the past, the weather had always been consistently good. Only once had it been harsh. As for violence, the People were in current conflict with the Hundred Bands and relations with the Peace Seekers were not much better. There had been no contact, but the Peace Seekers were steadfast in their desire to ignore the People. All trade had ceased and none of the People who plied the waters of the Great Bay reported even incidental contact.

Despite their nature, there were concerning signs among the Peace Seekers that left many feeling uneasy. Spurred on by curiosity, for a family they'd never known, a group of young people had nearly snuck into the Peace Seeker camp. They turned back at the last moment, but they noticed an enormous number of canoes beached on the shore. Far more than the small population of Peace Seekers could ever need. A bored sentry watched the canoes. A man armoured in wood and carrying one of the massive war club of the so-called Barrow Builders to the south of the Peace Seekers.

The youths didn't get to close to the Peace Seekers, but they heard no evidence of screams and saw no fires burning freely. What did that mean for the relationship between the Peace Seekers and the Barrow Builders? Supposedly the former and been chased from their last home by the latter. Now they appeared to be welcomed in.

With all the uncertainty surrounding other tribes, there was one bright spot. A new tribe, and a friendly one at that, had come into contact with the People at the Fingers. Hailing from a place to the southeast they called Arrow Lake, the newcomers brought with them gifts and friendly smiles. Chief amongst these goods was a wonderous substance; it was blue and so bright that it looked like a piece of the summer sky had fallen to earth. Second among their treasures was a stone, incredibly soft and easily shaped compared to the native Specklestone that the People primarily dealt with. It wasn't nearly as interesting as their prized Skystone, but there were possible applications to be had in making cooking vessels.

In return, the Lakers expressed great interest in Blackstone, sugar, and the crystals of the People. Much was gained in trade. The southerners left a few days after having arrived, happily exchanging much of their treasure with the People. Relations there, at least, looked positive.

Regardless, the People had work to do.

[ ] [Ordeal] Reinforce Houses
[ ] [Ordeal] Improve Palisade
[ ] [Ordeal] The spirits will not test yet! (Improve Annual Festival)
[ ] [Ordeal] Who is it to know the spirits? (Undergo Ordeal)

Actions (Pick 2 3 due to Climate rolls!)

Annual Festival - The People deserve to party! Build morale by opening up the stockpiles and having a night of feasts, dancing, music and fun.
Build Shrine (Crystal Lake, Fingers) - A building created within a Holy Place, this shrine houses and supports a number of dedicated shaman who focus on and work tirelessly to please the spirits. Instead of the typical ad hoc treatment they used to receive from the People, the spirits have been found to work best with those who focus solely on them.
Expand Hunting (Dogs, Traps, Herd Animals, Prize Animals) - Improve upon the hunting techniques of the People. Work to increase the amount of meat that is available to consume and empower the People. A risky activity and one that requires a great investment of skill and energy, this provides the largest gains of food.
Expand Aquaculture (Water-Grass, Mussels, Fishing) - Most of the People live close to a river and are able to gather one of numerous sources of food. Often much easier to obtain than food from hunting and much less risky, these sources of food are much more vulnerable to shifts of the seasons and that of the weather.
Explore (Specify Direction) [Wonderful World] - There is much to be found in the world. Countless things, often placed by the hand of the spirits themselves. It is up to the People to find them.
Found Settlement (includes: Palisade, Holy Place, Sugar Shack) - While the People build homes where they will, often where food or resources can easily be found, these places are settled without organization or care. By founding a formal settlement, it becomes possible for central authority to exert itself before the People become too fracas. (Requires: 2 tiers of Econ and excess population. Available locations: North Bay, East Bay, River Fork, River Bend. 1 settlement possible to found.)
Manage Forests (Sugar, Timber, Evergreen, Berries, Nuts) - While the forests provide the least of the People's food, they have provided that which is most useful. Sugar is wonderous in taste and highly sought after as a trade goods. Evergreen tea soothes aching bodies and quiets headaches. There is much to be found in the unknown, perhaps rare, but of significant value.
Promote Folk Wrestling [Bellicose Bearing] - The People are fracas and have a tendency towards physical confrontations and violence. By carefully channeling this tendency, it's possible to develop further skill at war and turn hunters into skilled and deadly raiders.
Raid [Bellicose Bearing, Retributive Justice] (Peace Seekers, Hundred Bands) - The hunting of beasts turns now into the hunting of men. Strike down those who oppose the People so that we may be kept safe.
Study Travel [Wonderful Word] - Invest time in learning how most effectively to travel. The world is harsh and strange, learning how to traverse it will save the People much in effort and food.
Study Fire - The greatest and most capricious of spirits, fire is of immense use to the People. The recent discovery of lime and the founding of the Ember-Eyed has spurred substantial interest in developing understanding of this forceful spirit further.
Study Stone - A solid and stable spirit, the People have found numerous type of stone with different properties. How these properties can be best served to support the People is unknown. Learning to work the material will likely pay enormous dividends in the future.
Trade (Arrow Lake, Peace Seekers) - It is clear that the People do not hold all that is significant within the world. There are other tribes that hold interesting, useful or beautiful objects. By offering up some as gifts, things that the People do not have will be provided in return.
Undergo Ordeal [Ordeal] - The spirits test the People, always. By forcing extra pressure on themselves, the People grow in strength and often find new ways of doing things. A potentially damaging process, this forcing of hardship could be used well to spur directed change if properly channeled.

Megaprojects:

Trials of Adulthood [Bellicose Bearing, Ordeal] (4 actions) - The People have had trials for adulthood since time immemorial. Informal things, they often served as a way to demonstrated that a youth was fully grown and capable of adding their voice to the People's in debates and decision-making. By refining and making these trials more difficult, it is likely that the People would be able to spur the development of more effective leaders and workers.
Runner's Relay [Wonderful World] (5 actions) - The Great Trace between Crystal Lake and the Fingers ties the People together. A journey that once took nearly two moons now takes less than one. Still, there is further room for improvement. Communication between the Big Men of the two settlements is sporadic and often weeks out of date. By stationing numerous youth to serve as runners along the length of the Trace, it would be possible to cut down messaging times to a fraction of what it is currently.
The World in Miniature [Wonderful World] (7 actions) - The world is a grand place, seemingly endless in scope. The People's exploration and search for wonders has pushed them to find a way to more effectively communicate discoveries with each other. Trail markers are a start, but they are not easily portable. More can be done.

[ ] [Action] Annual Festival
[ ] [Action] Build Shrine: (Crystal Lake, Fingers)
[ ] [Action] Expand Hunting: (Dogs, Traps, Herd Animals, Prize Animals)
[ ] [Action] Expand Aquaculture: (Water-Grass, Mussels, Fishing)
[ ] [Action] Explore: (Specify Direction - more specific the better)
[ ] [Action] Found Settlement: (North Bay, East Bay, River Fork, River Bend)
[ ] [Action] Manage Forest (Sugar, Timber, Evergreen, Berries, Nuts)
[ ] [Action] Raid (Peace Seekers, Hundred Bands)
[ ] [Action] Study Travel
[ ] [Action] Study Fire
[ ] [Action] Study Stone
[ ] [Action] Trade: (Arrow Lake, Peace Seekers)
[ ] [Action] Undergo Ordeal

(For Hunting, Aquaculture and Forests, you don't need to specify which subtype you want to use. That just targets were you get any innovations and what trade goods develop. If it's not specified, it will be directed at all options generally.)
 
Last edited:
[X] [Ordeal] Improve Palisade
[X] [Action] Expand Hunting: (Dogs, Traps, Herd Animals, Prize Animals)


War seems likely.
Expanded hunting is both food and war prep. Kind of want all the potential options except Prize Animals.
 
[x] [Ordeal] Reinforce Houses
[X] [Action] Expand Hunting: (Dogs, Traps, Herd Animals, Prize Animals)
 
Enemies to the North, and Enemies to our South. That's two fronts we have to worry about. Houses won't do us much good if our Palasides fall, while a strong Palaside has the bonus of protecting Houses and helping us fight back.

[X] [Ordeal] Improve Palisade
[X] [Action] Raid: Northern Hundred Bands
[X] [Action] Expand Hunting: (Dogs, Traps, Herd Animals, Prize Animals)
[X] [Action] Study Fire

We need to close one of the Fronts now, and last we met the Northern Hundred Band, their raid was undermanned so they might not have many troops left. Let's hit them while they're still recovering, then we can focus on the South.
 
Last edited:
[X] [Ordeal] Reinforce Houses
[X] [Action] Runner's Relay [Wonderful World] (5 actions)
[X] [Action] Expand Hunting: Dogs
[X] [Action] Expand Aquaculture: Water-Grass

We defend with dogs and build up an economic reserve. Start working on connectivity.
House reinforcement to preserve the Lime mortar innovation, and once we do it we can cross apply it to palisades.
For now, rely on dogs for defense.
 
Last edited:
[X] [Ordeal] Reinforce Houses
[X] [Action] Trade: (Arrow Lake)
[X] [Action] Study Fire
[X] [Action] Manage Forest (Sugar)


@Redium, what would it take for us to discover how to herd herd animals?
 
[X] [Ordeal] Improve Palisade
[X] [Action] Raid: Northern Hundred Bands
[X] [Action] Expand Hunting: (Dogs, Traps, Herd Animals, Prize Animals)
[X] [Action] Study Fire
 
@veekie is the grass for a staple?

We need to close one of the Fronts now, and last we met the Northern Hundred Band, their raid was undermanned so they might not have many troops left. Let's hit them while they're still recovering, them we can focus on the South.
If they're undermanned & historically have been warring with neighboring tribes they're unlikely to be an issue for us.

Fine w/ veekie's plan, but I'd like more general hunting development to maybe get herd animals.
We should do the trials of adulthood soon.

[X] [Ordeal] Reinforce Houses
[X] [Action] Runner's Relay [Wonderful World] (5 actions)
[X] [Action] Expand Hunting: (Dogs, Traps, Herd Animals, Prize Animals)
[X] [Action] Expand Aquaculture: Water-Grass
 
Its proto-rice/barley. We need to develop it further before we have actual grains we can store food with though. Otherwise, no matter what our vulnerability to climate will be extreme.

Also Hunting: Dogs costs food, while Water Grass adds food. I prefer to stay food positive.
Beyond the risk of failure (which suffices as a reason) it doesn't appear to, actually, unless a different quote elsewhere addresses the emphasis on dogs alone?
A risky activity and one that requires a great investment of skill and energy, this provides the largest gains of food.

Having extra meat stored is always good. I wish we'd figure out high roof peaks already though...
 
[X] [Ordeal] Reinforce Houses
[X] [Action] Runner's Relay [Wonderful World] (5 actions)
[X] [Action] Expand Hunting: Dogs
[X] [Action] Expand Aquaculture: Water-Grass
 
[X] [Ordeal] Reinforce Houses
[X] [Action] Runner's Relay [Wonderful World] (5 actions)
[X] [Action] Expand Hunting: (Dogs, Traps, Herd Animals, Prize Animals)
[X] [Action] Expand Aquaculture: Water-Grass
 
[X] [Ordeal] Reinforce Houses
[X] [Action] Runner's Relay [Wonderful World] (5 actions)
[X] [Action] Expand Hunting: (Dogs, Traps, Herd Animals, Prize Animals)
[X] [Action] Expand Aquaculture: Water-Grass
 
Back
Top