From Stone to the Stars
- Thread starter Redium
- Start date
- Original Alt. History
NuclearConsensus
Herald of the Thorned One
- Location
- the Philippines
[X] Put the man to work on behalf of the People, his food ration will be given upon him working.
Ghostdevil
The Devil of Ghosts
- Location
- United States
[X] Put the man to work on behalf of the People, his food ration will be given upon him working.
- Location
- Singapore
[X] Put the man to work on behalf of the People, his food ration will be givenupon him working.
- Location
- Italia
[ ] Put the man to work on behalf of the People, his food ration will be given upon him working.
- Location
- Hawaii
[X] Put the man to work on behalf of the People, his food ration will be given upon him working.
NuclearConsensus
Herald of the Thorned One
- Location
- the Philippines
You forgot the 'X' in your brackets.
So some assessemnt so people know what we're in for:
[ ] Provide restitution to the victim, but do nothing about the thief's debt.
Restorative Justice. The state makes sure to prioritize the victim above all.
However, this will be easy to abuse and strains state resources in 'insurance scam' type corruption. We will likely develop a secondary value soon after to make sure the punishment is harsh.
The most enlightened/progressive, and the best for avoiding the cycle of poverty and crime. And thus the most expensive to maintain.
[ ] Put the man to work on behalf of the People, his food ration will be given upon him working.
Punitive Justice. The state punishes the offender. The victim is not important.
However, the primary abuse of this is that its a natural lead into a de-facto penal slave caste, where Penal Labor is simply just so much cheaper than Free Labor. We likely develop institutional corruption as ruling classes find excuses to punish people to get cheap labor.
The advantage of this is that everyone is satisfied right now, and we get cheap labor. We just get to watch things burn if we don't fix it before the classical era.
[ ] Force the man to pay the debt back to the person he stole from, however he can manage it.
Eye for an Eye. You must keep accounts balanced. What you take must be returned. Great for trade, because you will be meticulous
However the primary drawback of this is that it encourages complex systems of feuds and debts, especially where the value of the loss is unclear(it always is, especially pre-currency), and even worse with generational feuds and debts. It can be resolved with an arbiter, but at the civilization/settlement level there isn't any arbiter.
This was how Rome self-defensed itself to ruling much of Europe though.
[ ] Brand the man a thief and allow nature to take its course.
Communal Justice. Relies on shame and community pressure to deter crime. However, the nature of the punishment means theres no takebacks, once a criminal, always a criminal.
Short term it's fantastic. Long term...well if you WANT to develop a criminal social class...
[ ] Exile him.
Absolute Justice. No half measures. Fit in or get out.
Its effective in its simplicity...until ruling class members get punished. Want to make sure theres people who know your culture with a grudge out there? This is how.
Very socially stable though. Amazing how little crime there is when you banish people for merely stealing.
Noting that all these values can and will evolve. But there isn't a 'good' option.
[ ] Provide restitution to the victim, but do nothing about the thief's debt.
Restorative Justice. The state makes sure to prioritize the victim above all.
However, this will be easy to abuse and strains state resources in 'insurance scam' type corruption. We will likely develop a secondary value soon after to make sure the punishment is harsh.
The most enlightened/progressive, and the best for avoiding the cycle of poverty and crime. And thus the most expensive to maintain.
[ ] Put the man to work on behalf of the People, his food ration will be given upon him working.
Punitive Justice. The state punishes the offender. The victim is not important.
However, the primary abuse of this is that its a natural lead into a de-facto penal slave caste, where Penal Labor is simply just so much cheaper than Free Labor. We likely develop institutional corruption as ruling classes find excuses to punish people to get cheap labor.
The advantage of this is that everyone is satisfied right now, and we get cheap labor. We just get to watch things burn if we don't fix it before the classical era.
[ ] Force the man to pay the debt back to the person he stole from, however he can manage it.
Eye for an Eye. You must keep accounts balanced. What you take must be returned. Great for trade, because you will be meticulous
However the primary drawback of this is that it encourages complex systems of feuds and debts, especially where the value of the loss is unclear(it always is, especially pre-currency), and even worse with generational feuds and debts. It can be resolved with an arbiter, but at the civilization/settlement level there isn't any arbiter.
This was how Rome self-defensed itself to ruling much of Europe though.
[ ] Brand the man a thief and allow nature to take its course.
Communal Justice. Relies on shame and community pressure to deter crime. However, the nature of the punishment means theres no takebacks, once a criminal, always a criminal.
Short term it's fantastic. Long term...well if you WANT to develop a criminal social class...
[ ] Exile him.
Absolute Justice. No half measures. Fit in or get out.
Its effective in its simplicity...until ruling class members get punished. Want to make sure theres people who know your culture with a grudge out there? This is how.
Very socially stable though. Amazing how little crime there is when you banish people for merely stealing.
Noting that all these values can and will evolve. But there isn't a 'good' option.
KnownParadox
Not a sphere
- Location
- Canada
[X] Put the man to work on behalf of the People, his food ration will be given upon him working.
- Location
- Singapore
[X] Put the man to work on behalf of the People, his food ration will be given upon him working.
[X] Provide restitution to the victim, but do nothing about the thief's debt.
Should do this while we have a hero
Should do this while we have a hero
ThatGazzer
Minds Eye Bind
- Location
- PNW
- Pronouns
- They/Them
[X] Put the man to work on behalf of the People, his food ration will be given upon him working.
Just in case, I'm going to try putting forward a write-in vote anyway.
EDIT: Nevermind
EDIT: Nevermind
Last edited:
Stealing food. That's a big deal, even if it's to prevent starvation. The theft of food could very easily cause someone else to die, especially since you're still primarily hunter-gatherers. There's not a lot of extra food to go around, especially during winter. If someone takes more than their fair share, other people starving to death is extremely likely. Those most affect by theft tend to be young children, who are protected by their parents, and elders who are protected by their adult children.
No.
That's basically this option: [ ] Put the man to work on behalf of the People, his food ration will be given upon him working.
The logic is if the man works on behalf of the People, the People can then redistribute the surplus created to pay off his victims.
