From Stone to the Stars
- Thread starter Redium
- Start date
- Original Alt. History
- Location
- Queensland, Australia
To be specific.... When I was talking about not letting it get too strong, I was actually talking about how high a level we let the 'pure' Elite trait get.
It was causing problems (though probably not catastrophic ones) at the higher levels in PoC... But once it reached the higher evolutions... that is when it went from 'containable' to 'we need to dedicate work on solving this problem'... Of course, then the final evolution kicked in and... Well, I'm sure most of us don't need a refresher.
Basically, if we do let the Elite value line reach higher evolutions, we need to make sure it's only one of many, and that there's at least one or two curbing the excesses that the Elite line causes if we aren't to become too brittle as a civilisation.
If we can combine the Elite value with something else for a hybrid value... Well, it might be good things, it might be bad things. Depends entirely on what gets combined and how.
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The thing is, the Elites line is miserable on the ground. The drive and pressure to be more elite, to obtain more elite...it equalizes, because the elite suffer as much as those below them even in their luxury.
But the inverse or even the partial steps are not any better!
It means you enshrine the elites, but there is greater room to be elite without committing the effort.
If you want to fight against it?
Its nothing to do with the Elite trait. Invest in Justice and Loyalty. The obligations of nobility towards their lessers is a highly desirable trait which unlike pushing back against elites or stratification, is something that is naturally selected for, as it perpetuates social stability, but limits expansionism due to expanding commitments with increasing subordinates(which would no doubt, get some people annoyed).
But the inverse or even the partial steps are not any better!
It means you enshrine the elites, but there is greater room to be elite without committing the effort.
If you want to fight against it?
Its nothing to do with the Elite trait. Invest in Justice and Loyalty. The obligations of nobility towards their lessers is a highly desirable trait which unlike pushing back against elites or stratification, is something that is naturally selected for, as it perpetuates social stability, but limits expansionism due to expanding commitments with increasing subordinates(which would no doubt, get some people annoyed).
maximillian
Civilised Sheep
- Location
- Ranch
Have you been partaking of lamb lately?
Nope, only stating that it's the social natural inclination, so we'd need to either:
-Pick a specific form of morality/equality and dedicate to it, letting all else burn to perpetuate a naturally deselected concept
OR
-Take it and try to juggle the mitigating factors.
OR
-Break at some point and become a legend in books
Never needed mutton for that.
maximillian
Civilised Sheep
- Location
- Ranch
Sounds like you're implying that magical word that starts with F.
Ghostdevil
The Devil of Ghosts
- Location
- United States
Feudalism is basically a natural state to collapse into. We aren't turtled behind super defensible terrain this time.
And I'd note that I've never had inherent objections to feudalism, back in PoC I was all about stressing society and extending the unstable stability to see what kind of cultural legacies might spawn.
Here, I voted elected council first since it's more flexible to expansion/reduction as we're likely to see soon. Makes assimilation easier.
Ghostdevil
The Devil of Ghosts
- Location
- United States
Inserted tally
6.1 Spirits and Slaves
[X] Plan Consolidate
Miri hummed as she walked, an easy smile on her features. Granduncle Feodor had called her out organizing the crews to gather fish along the shores of the Fingers and that was despite being only... Miri had to stop and take off her slippers; one, two, three... 14 worlds old (she thanked each of her wriggling toes as she put them back in their slippers). She wondered, for a moment why the spirits would make the People count even higher than they had fingers and toes. Wasn't counting the entire reason you had them?
Thoughts up in the clouds, Miri slowly made her way through the People's settlement at the Fingers. The place had been swelling in size and importance for as long as she could remember. The climate was nicer than Crystal Lake; less snow and the winds were not as cutting. Most of the people from the former River-Bend Tribe and the remaining Fingersmen had settled there, building homes within the massive palisade that granduncle Feodor had ordered raised. It kept them safe, Miri knew, but she thought it looked terribly ugly.
The palisade was made of cut spear-wood trees and built on top of a raised earthen embankment. Each stake was a massive tree, split in half and fastened to the ones next to it. The wall stood two and a half time the height of the tallest man that lived amongst the People making it nearly impossible to climb. The outside was rough cut bark, but caked over with mud to prevent anyone from setting fire to the entire structure. The wall itself had also had a completely unexpected benefit: reduced use of firewood!
Wind seemed to be channeled up from the south along the river. When life fled from the world, the wind seemed to steal the very heat from the body, scything it away as if the air itself was twice as cold. Having the palisade acted as a bulwark against the wind, diverting it and breaking it up. The palisade seemed to contain all of the heat produced by cook fires and other sources of warmth and kept it close, like a cloak.
Still, a little part of Miri was deeply uncomfortable living inside the palisade. It was a reminder of war, raids and violence, but that wasn't something that had ever touched her life. How old had great-grandfather Alvar been when he led the People's hunters against the north? A boy, she had heard it told, fresh faced and young. Feodor had fought for years against the Fingersmen, the children of whom she now called kith and kin.
Every one who called themselves one of the People had been to the Broken Finger, the massive burn scar that was baked into the earth north of the current settlement. Charred timbers jutted up from the ground like broken teeth and ash nearly a foot deep covered everything. It wasn't uncommon for children playing on the grounds there to unearth human bones. The old settlement of the Fingers was a dead place; cursed too if what Miri knew was correct.
Feodor had a holy shrine built there. A massive bowl, carved from Whitestone was set upon an alter with a fire slowly burning with it. Idols of clay, wood, stone, and bone, effigies of the animals and other spirits surrounded the flame, protecting it. During the winter months, it was left uncovered and the bowl slowly filled with snow and ice. When the world was reborn, the ice melted and flowed out of the bowl, allowing the fire to be relit. It was supposed to show the eternal recurrence of the world, Miri remembered. How even though things will be choked in ice and snow, new life will eventually return.
All it brought to the People was conflict.
Those who were once Fingersmen or River-Men appreciated the gesture, seeing it as a signal of reconciliation. Their settlements had been lost and their ancestral lands left abandoned. Having a symbol of recurrence seemed to encourage them, letting them know that they had made the right choices. For the People of Crystal Lake, however, it was all wrong. There were not proper offerings to the spirits of stone, crystal and water. While ice was involved, it was profaned by mixing it with fire. The time when the world was filled with life was the opposite of when it was filled with snow and ice. The two spirits should not mix, according to those of Crystal Lake.
Government Upgrade: Anarchic Collective -> Localized Duarchic Big Man (Archaic)
The voices weren't loud, at first, but in the end it was enough that Grandfather Tymon had to permanently move to Crystal Lake and start working on solving the problem. Going from one definitive center of spiritual worship to two had, if anything, heightened the divisions that already existed. It just added that little bit of resentment on top already existing problems.
Aside from the issue of spirits and holy sites, the biggest difficulty was trade. A round trip between the two settlements was equivalent to the turning of two full moons. Traders were out of contact for extensive periods of time. Crystal Lake produced White-, Black-, and Berrystone while the Fingers produced little of value. Wood and bone were too bulk to transport, furs were too easy to acquire locally, and there wasn't much else that the Fingers produced that was worth trading. The People could go without Whitestone or Berrystone if necessary, but losing access to Blackstone would hurt tremendously.
From what Miri had heard from her long chats with some of the hunters, everyone preferred using Blackstone to flint. The cutting edge it gave to knives, spear points and arrowheads was incomparably better. Plus, it was easier to work with. You had to know how otherwise it would shatter, but once you did, it took significantly less time than working flint.
Thankfully, that had finally changed once the People rediscovered how to make spirit food. The secret had been in an Fingersmen legend. That tribe had used to hold their Rites of Manhood in the spring. Boys were sent out into the woods to gather as many materials as they could by sundown in order to build a pyre that would last the night. The goal was to show the rest of the tribe how resourceful, intelligent and committed you were.
Anyway, there had been a boy. In order to demonstrate his cunning and humility to the tribe's womenfolk, he had planned to turn his pyre into heat for a stew. Making food was vastly more useful than a vanity fire. He gathered a small pile of dried wood, some kindling but mostly larger logs that would provide long-lasting heat. He had caught a rabbit, picked berries, and water-grass. It wouldn't be a feast, but it would be more than enough to reliably feed a family.
Seeing this, the spirits knew the boy to be weak, easily thwarted in revenge for the Rite of Burning that would occur that night. An eagle swooped down on his rabbit, but he managed to fend it off. Squirrels made off with the berries he had picked, but the boy merely gathered more. A flock of pigeons devoured the water-grass, but the boy was wise this time and had some water-grass on his person. Finally, a antler beast ambushed the boy on his way back home, knocking over his bucket of water. The boy cried as his efforts were dismantled. There would be no way he could return to the river and gather more water. Why were the spirits being so cruel?
Where is your Care? The spirits called back. Men create fire, you deny our brethren their birthright.
One spirit, though, saw this and was touched by the boy's kindness. The spirit of a great tree had been spared the axe by the boy's modest goals. Instead of burning in a giant conflagration, it could continue to grow. Seeing the boy stymied in his own growth, the spirit of wood felt kinship and pity. He offered the water from its own body so that the boy could still complete his challenge.
When the boy brought this secret water back to camp and set it to boil on his modest fire. It wasn't the largest or the brightest, but it burned through the night. it boiled into a stew that was simply indescribable. Sweeter than any berry, the taste of it was almost overpowering. Everyone in the tribe was rendered speechless by the product of the boy's cook pot. Universally was he proclaimed a man.
The boy remembered the tree that had helped him and when he became immensely respected in the tribe, he asked that the tree that helped him and all of its kin be spared the bite of an axe until the end of time as long as they produced secret water.
The People had sought out these marked trees and found many of them. The distinctive V-shaped scar showed that it was only a certain type of tree that sap was drawn from. After it was boiled and boiled and boiled until all water was gone, it left distinctive tan coloured crystals; the spirit food that the Fingersmen had been so proud of.
Compared to anything else Miri had ever tasted, the tan crystal food was so much better. The closest comparison she could make would be to ground berries, but that was a pale imitation. The sweetness of berries wasn't even a tiny bit of a tiny bit of the refined brown crystals. On a single taste, the traders from Crystal Lake had agreed to exchange their cargo of Blackstone for it.
Miri pulled to a halt. Wasn't she supposed to be somewhere? Right! She jumped before racing down to the river. She had been assigned to work on fishing. The great river to the south of them narrowed enormously to squeeze by the island of the Fingers. As a response, the water formed a sort of white water wave that never seemed to move. She was actually the one that noticed that fish would stop in the shallows sometimes while they tried to fight past the standing waves in the river. It was trivial to find a few of these placid pounds along the edge and hem them in with stones. The ponds could be opened up to let fish in and then sealed off to easily entrap them.
Considering that a single shovel-head fish weighed half as much as Miri herself, it went a long way to securing food for the Fingers. Skipping down to the water, Miri pulled up short. Several canoes were racing hard for the beach, filled with hunters who had set off south.
Miri's knees felt weak once they got close enough to shout.
They were being followed.
=====
Feodor sighed once the message of the 'traders' was finally translated by one of the older Fingersmen elders. Apparently, this group was of a tribe from upriver; one of the Hundred Bands. They were known previously to the Fingersmen, but apparently they had been distracted in recent years by intra-group troubles that had escalated to violence, cutting off trade. It was only recently that some of their northernmost scouts started to see the smoke from spirit food-making.
Recalling a story from his boyhood, one of the more powerful band leaders among the Hundred Bands had outfitted a trade expedition. His band had captured numerous women and rival warriors in combat and it was said that the Fingers would trade spirit food for more hands to work. Given the distances involved, the trade leader thought the unruly workers would be a lot less unruly when they couldn't simply return home. Why not get rid of one untrustworthy problem and secure a tasty luxury?
When Feodor's distaste for the practice of forced labour started to become relevant, the lead trader shrugged. Many thought like that before they saw the benefits, he said. But, if the People were not interested, he would find something else to trade for spirit food. And find another way to freely dispose of his unruly prisoners.
A tribe from the south has arrived at the Fingers. They claim to be part of the Hundred Bands, traders that used to deal with the Fingersmen. They want to trade for spirit food, the delicious tan crystal powder than only the Fingers is known to produce. In exchange, they offer 'troublesome' men and women captured in their own internecine conflict that they cannot, themselves, use as slaves. How do the People respond?
[ ] Accept the proposed trade of workers for food.
-[ ] Accept them as workers
-[ ] Accept them as adoptees
[ ] Find something else to trade with the northern Hundred Bands
[ ] Refuse to deal with a slave trafficker
-[X] [Waystation] Close River-Bend and move the People to the Fingers proper
-[X] [Organize] Formalize the informal leader positions that the Three Brothers have had and let them lead a camp
-[X] [Martial] Build Palisade
--[X] Fingers
-[X] [Art] Investigate Spirit Food
-[X] [Art] Found Holy Site
-- [X] Fingers
-[X] [Admin] Collect Shellfish
-[X] [Action] Increase Hunting
-[X] [Action] Expand Traps
-[X] [Organize] Formalize the informal leader positions that the Three Brothers have had and let them lead a camp
-[X] [Martial] Build Palisade
--[X] Fingers
-[X] [Art] Investigate Spirit Food
-[X] [Art] Found Holy Site
-- [X] Fingers
-[X] [Admin] Collect Shellfish
-[X] [Action] Increase Hunting
-[X] [Action] Expand Traps
Miri hummed as she walked, an easy smile on her features. Granduncle Feodor had called her out organizing the crews to gather fish along the shores of the Fingers and that was despite being only... Miri had to stop and take off her slippers; one, two, three... 14 worlds old (she thanked each of her wriggling toes as she put them back in their slippers). She wondered, for a moment why the spirits would make the People count even higher than they had fingers and toes. Wasn't counting the entire reason you had them?
Thoughts up in the clouds, Miri slowly made her way through the People's settlement at the Fingers. The place had been swelling in size and importance for as long as she could remember. The climate was nicer than Crystal Lake; less snow and the winds were not as cutting. Most of the people from the former River-Bend Tribe and the remaining Fingersmen had settled there, building homes within the massive palisade that granduncle Feodor had ordered raised. It kept them safe, Miri knew, but she thought it looked terribly ugly.
The palisade was made of cut spear-wood trees and built on top of a raised earthen embankment. Each stake was a massive tree, split in half and fastened to the ones next to it. The wall stood two and a half time the height of the tallest man that lived amongst the People making it nearly impossible to climb. The outside was rough cut bark, but caked over with mud to prevent anyone from setting fire to the entire structure. The wall itself had also had a completely unexpected benefit: reduced use of firewood!
Wind seemed to be channeled up from the south along the river. When life fled from the world, the wind seemed to steal the very heat from the body, scything it away as if the air itself was twice as cold. Having the palisade acted as a bulwark against the wind, diverting it and breaking it up. The palisade seemed to contain all of the heat produced by cook fires and other sources of warmth and kept it close, like a cloak.
Still, a little part of Miri was deeply uncomfortable living inside the palisade. It was a reminder of war, raids and violence, but that wasn't something that had ever touched her life. How old had great-grandfather Alvar been when he led the People's hunters against the north? A boy, she had heard it told, fresh faced and young. Feodor had fought for years against the Fingersmen, the children of whom she now called kith and kin.
Every one who called themselves one of the People had been to the Broken Finger, the massive burn scar that was baked into the earth north of the current settlement. Charred timbers jutted up from the ground like broken teeth and ash nearly a foot deep covered everything. It wasn't uncommon for children playing on the grounds there to unearth human bones. The old settlement of the Fingers was a dead place; cursed too if what Miri knew was correct.
Feodor had a holy shrine built there. A massive bowl, carved from Whitestone was set upon an alter with a fire slowly burning with it. Idols of clay, wood, stone, and bone, effigies of the animals and other spirits surrounded the flame, protecting it. During the winter months, it was left uncovered and the bowl slowly filled with snow and ice. When the world was reborn, the ice melted and flowed out of the bowl, allowing the fire to be relit. It was supposed to show the eternal recurrence of the world, Miri remembered. How even though things will be choked in ice and snow, new life will eventually return.
All it brought to the People was conflict.
Those who were once Fingersmen or River-Men appreciated the gesture, seeing it as a signal of reconciliation. Their settlements had been lost and their ancestral lands left abandoned. Having a symbol of recurrence seemed to encourage them, letting them know that they had made the right choices. For the People of Crystal Lake, however, it was all wrong. There were not proper offerings to the spirits of stone, crystal and water. While ice was involved, it was profaned by mixing it with fire. The time when the world was filled with life was the opposite of when it was filled with snow and ice. The two spirits should not mix, according to those of Crystal Lake.
Government Upgrade: Anarchic Collective -> Localized Duarchic Big Man (Archaic)
Big Men are elevated from amongst the People in each settlement. The process of elevation is opaque and can vary between differing bands or settlements. General acclaim and skill is required to rise to the level of Big Man and a Big Man recognized among one group may not be recognized by another. This increase in those vested with leadership makes the People able to divide their attention and gives strength to succession against disaster or uncertainty.
Pros: Double number of inherent actions, some actions develop organically, chance roll on each action for Unity, Works of Scale become possible in limited circumstances
Cons: Chance roll on each action for Division, consequences of negative Stability increased
Pros: Double number of inherent actions, some actions develop organically, chance roll on each action for Unity, Works of Scale become possible in limited circumstances
Cons: Chance roll on each action for Division, consequences of negative Stability increased
The voices weren't loud, at first, but in the end it was enough that Grandfather Tymon had to permanently move to Crystal Lake and start working on solving the problem. Going from one definitive center of spiritual worship to two had, if anything, heightened the divisions that already existed. It just added that little bit of resentment on top already existing problems.
Aside from the issue of spirits and holy sites, the biggest difficulty was trade. A round trip between the two settlements was equivalent to the turning of two full moons. Traders were out of contact for extensive periods of time. Crystal Lake produced White-, Black-, and Berrystone while the Fingers produced little of value. Wood and bone were too bulk to transport, furs were too easy to acquire locally, and there wasn't much else that the Fingers produced that was worth trading. The People could go without Whitestone or Berrystone if necessary, but losing access to Blackstone would hurt tremendously.
From what Miri had heard from her long chats with some of the hunters, everyone preferred using Blackstone to flint. The cutting edge it gave to knives, spear points and arrowheads was incomparably better. Plus, it was easier to work with. You had to know how otherwise it would shatter, but once you did, it took significantly less time than working flint.
Thankfully, that had finally changed once the People rediscovered how to make spirit food. The secret had been in an Fingersmen legend. That tribe had used to hold their Rites of Manhood in the spring. Boys were sent out into the woods to gather as many materials as they could by sundown in order to build a pyre that would last the night. The goal was to show the rest of the tribe how resourceful, intelligent and committed you were.
Anyway, there had been a boy. In order to demonstrate his cunning and humility to the tribe's womenfolk, he had planned to turn his pyre into heat for a stew. Making food was vastly more useful than a vanity fire. He gathered a small pile of dried wood, some kindling but mostly larger logs that would provide long-lasting heat. He had caught a rabbit, picked berries, and water-grass. It wouldn't be a feast, but it would be more than enough to reliably feed a family.
Seeing this, the spirits knew the boy to be weak, easily thwarted in revenge for the Rite of Burning that would occur that night. An eagle swooped down on his rabbit, but he managed to fend it off. Squirrels made off with the berries he had picked, but the boy merely gathered more. A flock of pigeons devoured the water-grass, but the boy was wise this time and had some water-grass on his person. Finally, a antler beast ambushed the boy on his way back home, knocking over his bucket of water. The boy cried as his efforts were dismantled. There would be no way he could return to the river and gather more water. Why were the spirits being so cruel?
Where is your Care? The spirits called back. Men create fire, you deny our brethren their birthright.
One spirit, though, saw this and was touched by the boy's kindness. The spirit of a great tree had been spared the axe by the boy's modest goals. Instead of burning in a giant conflagration, it could continue to grow. Seeing the boy stymied in his own growth, the spirit of wood felt kinship and pity. He offered the water from its own body so that the boy could still complete his challenge.
When the boy brought this secret water back to camp and set it to boil on his modest fire. It wasn't the largest or the brightest, but it burned through the night. it boiled into a stew that was simply indescribable. Sweeter than any berry, the taste of it was almost overpowering. Everyone in the tribe was rendered speechless by the product of the boy's cook pot. Universally was he proclaimed a man.
The boy remembered the tree that had helped him and when he became immensely respected in the tribe, he asked that the tree that helped him and all of its kin be spared the bite of an axe until the end of time as long as they produced secret water.
The People had sought out these marked trees and found many of them. The distinctive V-shaped scar showed that it was only a certain type of tree that sap was drawn from. After it was boiled and boiled and boiled until all water was gone, it left distinctive tan coloured crystals; the spirit food that the Fingersmen had been so proud of.
Compared to anything else Miri had ever tasted, the tan crystal food was so much better. The closest comparison she could make would be to ground berries, but that was a pale imitation. The sweetness of berries wasn't even a tiny bit of a tiny bit of the refined brown crystals. On a single taste, the traders from Crystal Lake had agreed to exchange their cargo of Blackstone for it.
Miri pulled to a halt. Wasn't she supposed to be somewhere? Right! She jumped before racing down to the river. She had been assigned to work on fishing. The great river to the south of them narrowed enormously to squeeze by the island of the Fingers. As a response, the water formed a sort of white water wave that never seemed to move. She was actually the one that noticed that fish would stop in the shallows sometimes while they tried to fight past the standing waves in the river. It was trivial to find a few of these placid pounds along the edge and hem them in with stones. The ponds could be opened up to let fish in and then sealed off to easily entrap them.
Considering that a single shovel-head fish weighed half as much as Miri herself, it went a long way to securing food for the Fingers. Skipping down to the water, Miri pulled up short. Several canoes were racing hard for the beach, filled with hunters who had set off south.
Miri's knees felt weak once they got close enough to shout.
They were being followed.
=====
Feodor sighed once the message of the 'traders' was finally translated by one of the older Fingersmen elders. Apparently, this group was of a tribe from upriver; one of the Hundred Bands. They were known previously to the Fingersmen, but apparently they had been distracted in recent years by intra-group troubles that had escalated to violence, cutting off trade. It was only recently that some of their northernmost scouts started to see the smoke from spirit food-making.
Recalling a story from his boyhood, one of the more powerful band leaders among the Hundred Bands had outfitted a trade expedition. His band had captured numerous women and rival warriors in combat and it was said that the Fingers would trade spirit food for more hands to work. Given the distances involved, the trade leader thought the unruly workers would be a lot less unruly when they couldn't simply return home. Why not get rid of one untrustworthy problem and secure a tasty luxury?
When Feodor's distaste for the practice of forced labour started to become relevant, the lead trader shrugged. Many thought like that before they saw the benefits, he said. But, if the People were not interested, he would find something else to trade for spirit food. And find another way to freely dispose of his unruly prisoners.
A tribe from the south has arrived at the Fingers. They claim to be part of the Hundred Bands, traders that used to deal with the Fingersmen. They want to trade for spirit food, the delicious tan crystal powder than only the Fingers is known to produce. In exchange, they offer 'troublesome' men and women captured in their own internecine conflict that they cannot, themselves, use as slaves. How do the People respond?
[ ] Accept the proposed trade of workers for food.
-[ ] Accept them as workers
-[ ] Accept them as adoptees
[ ] Find something else to trade with the northern Hundred Bands
[ ] Refuse to deal with a slave trafficker
LucidProp
Pocky Eating MafiaDoka
[X] Accept the proposed trade of workers for food.
-[X] Accept them as adoptees
It's probably modern sensibilities talking, but Slavery is right out. However, we do need to expand our trade network, and getting more hands to work and heads to think would be useful.
These people could tell us about the wider world, and with that, their ideas and technology. Eventually, I'm hoping our slaves turned citizens will help us gain a positive relationship with the tribes they came from once we make contact. Maybe we'll even topple the Hundred Bands together.
Of course, our martial culture and the prisoners' apparent 'troublesomeness' may just see them maltreated and deepen the divisions already present, but I'm willing to take the risk for more Tech.
-[X] Accept them as adoptees
It's probably modern sensibilities talking, but Slavery is right out. However, we do need to expand our trade network, and getting more hands to work and heads to think would be useful.
These people could tell us about the wider world, and with that, their ideas and technology. Eventually, I'm hoping our slaves turned citizens will help us gain a positive relationship with the tribes they came from once we make contact. Maybe we'll even topple the Hundred Bands together.
Of course, our martial culture and the prisoners' apparent 'troublesomeness' may just see them maltreated and deepen the divisions already present, but I'm willing to take the risk for more Tech.
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- Location
- Queensland, Australia
Okay... Just going to say that I do not think we should ban slavery outright once our civilisation develops further, because that tends to cause... difficulties. That said, I am all for limiting the extent to which slavery can be used, as doing otherwise causes even more problems.
Basically, I'd say we want to push slavery into the 'temporary' form. By which I mean allowing slaves to have (very limited) ownership rights, which means that eventually they have the chance to buy their way out of slavery or something.
That said, right now we're aiming for a more spread out civilisation I think, or something like that... Which tends to mean slaves are too problematic to manage, and the other options are not wanted... so adoptees it is! Not just for that reason though, do think it's the choice of the lot.
[X] Accept the proposed trade of workers for food.
-[X] Accept them as adoptees
Basically, I'd say we want to push slavery into the 'temporary' form. By which I mean allowing slaves to have (very limited) ownership rights, which means that eventually they have the chance to buy their way out of slavery or something.
That said, right now we're aiming for a more spread out civilisation I think, or something like that... Which tends to mean slaves are too problematic to manage, and the other options are not wanted... so adoptees it is! Not just for that reason though, do think it's the choice of the lot.
[X] Accept the proposed trade of workers for food.
-[X] Accept them as adoptees
Last edited:
- Location
- Canada
[X] Accept the proposed trade of workers for food.
-[X] Accept them as adoptees
Im not a fan of slavery, but I am a fan of buying slaves, Morrowind, Fallout 3 (only games I can think of right now) I bought slaves then set them free.
Then I proceed to wipe out the slavers, although I think this just shows modern thinking coming into play as I felt those slaves need to be free, an not being able to free them by just killing the slavers first as this was a video game the slaves still act like slaves and are not "Free." I also like the idea of the slaves earning their freedom just given a task for a season then let go.
This is a civilization, we gotta make mistakes for people to grow, after all real world equivalents allowed events to spiral out of control before they were fixed and once it was growth and new ways of thinking were open.
If no one fought to free the slaves, we would still have slaves and not realize it was bad.
That kinda deal.
-[X] Accept them as adoptees
Im not a fan of slavery, but I am a fan of buying slaves, Morrowind, Fallout 3 (only games I can think of right now) I bought slaves then set them free.
Then I proceed to wipe out the slavers, although I think this just shows modern thinking coming into play as I felt those slaves need to be free, an not being able to free them by just killing the slavers first as this was a video game the slaves still act like slaves and are not "Free." I also like the idea of the slaves earning their freedom just given a task for a season then let go.
This is a civilization, we gotta make mistakes for people to grow, after all real world equivalents allowed events to spiral out of control before they were fixed and once it was growth and new ways of thinking were open.
If no one fought to free the slaves, we would still have slaves and not realize it was bad.
That kinda deal.
[X] Accept the proposed trade of workers for food.
-[X] Accept them as adoptees
We've been shown in the narrative that we've been struggling on our population size such that we had to downsize to just two settlements, and this is as someone mentioned effectively free growth. They'll also come with knowledge of tribal life up river, and perhaps things that they have learned there.
-[X] Accept them as adoptees
We've been shown in the narrative that we've been struggling on our population size such that we had to downsize to just two settlements, and this is as someone mentioned effectively free growth. They'll also come with knowledge of tribal life up river, and perhaps things that they have learned there.
- Location
- Italia
[X] Accept the proposed trade of workers for food.
-[X] Accept them as adoptees
-[X] Accept them as adoptees