Civilization Stats
General
Craftworks: Tiny Surplus (Equilibrium)
Diplomacy: Small Surplus
Luxuries: Tiny Deficit (Tiny Deficit)
Magic: Small Surplus (Tiny Surplus)
Material: Tiny Surplus (Equilibrium)
Martial: Moderate Surplus (Small Surplus)
Mysticism: Small Surplus
Staples: Equilibrium (Equilibrium)
Farmers: At Capacity
Fishermen: Significant Capacity Remaining
Herdsmen: Extreme Capacity Remaining
Huntsmen: At Capacity
Taking a look at our stats, it doesn't really look like they've changed at all, which makes sense considering most of the changes we made during the previous sub turn was oriented more around dealing with our religious issues rather than our resources and such as a whole.
Endurance
Stability: Promising
Legitimacy: Inspired!
Prestige: 38
???
Hmm, even with the stability hits we've taken, it looks like we are still in the Black in regards to our stability. Our legitimacy on the other hand doesn't seem to have been hit at all, so I think we have a very good amount we can lose from it in case we need to spend it to make more important, controversial, decisions.
Organizational
Centralization: 1
Hierarchy: 3
Religious Authority: 5.25
Specialization: 4
It looks like our RA went down from 6.25 to 5.25, it seems like getting back to equilibrium will be like pulling teeth for us.
Magic
Tally (100/100)
Abstract Tally (214/250)Animism (50/50)
Gods and Deities (200/200)
Ancestor Worship (0/???)
Hero Cults (0/???)
Elementalism (58/???)Celestial Patterns (125/125)
That's interesting, I don't remember is getting celestial patterns the last turn. I am curious as to what it will branch out to and eager to see what we can do with it.
This... was likely the best breakfast that Jeree had ever tasted. Boiled quinoa and maple sugar. How had the gods not seen fit to grace him with this wisdom sooner? He had tried everything; simple fare like the platters of smoke fish and dried fruits that many fellow shaman preferred; a handful of pemmican sweetened with lard and berries like warriors preferred; or even the steamed corn cakes that were so popular among children.
Still, it was an extravagance to be able to afford maple sugar with every breakfast. Meh. That just made him eccentric; he was too wealthy and influential to be spirit-touched.
Jeree stopped, spoon half forgotten in the midst of his hot cereal.
Too rich to be spirit-touched. He was a hypocrite. Jeree felt the spirits, they were the wind in his hair when he ran among the willows. They wormed their way up from the depths of the earth and blossomed into countless beasts of every type. He could hear their whispers whenever he stalked the dark places of his mind and the deep parts of the world.
This brings up an interesting question, right here Jeree seems to be associating wealth with how spirit-touched a person can be, that seems to suggest to me that there is an underlying belief in how wealth, or extravagance in this, affects a person's ability to be touched by the spirits. Is this a new belief
@Redium or has this something that has always been the case and we just haven't had anyone bring it up until now? Is this related to our current RA crisis, where people are debating the role shaman should have in our society?
He still recalled the suspicious eyes that had followed the two of them out. The hidden signs and whispered prayers to silent gods for guidance. Everyone there knew that the two-as-one would be taken by the shaman eventually. Should a monster not be welcomed among its own kindred? Jeree remembered the child they had taken in the years following. Not once did her mother or fathers come to visit her.
Guutz had been oblivious to it all, twitching his hands his hands in sacred rhythms and grinning, off in his own little world visiting the spirits. Jeree recalled every second of it. Every harsh glare and every echoing whisper. He'd been relieved to fail his final test and be cast out from the Star Shaman. Returning home, to the wind and rain, tree and rock was... liberation.
Hmmmm, I'm not sure if this bodes well. On the one hand, people seem fine with seeking out and calling out our shaman to assist them with all kinds of matter, on the other hand, I don't think that their attitude towards the shaman is a good one. Is this distrust and suspicion limited to just the Star Shaman, who are the most mysterious of our shaman, or all of our shaman and Holy Orders as a whole?
@Redium
Hoping on top of his mount, Jeree spun his cloak of many colours. Fine dyes, ocher, fallen leaves, gems, and dozens of other pretty baubles crinkled and crackled through the air. The shouts momentarily intensified and Jeree saw a head pop out as one of his companions desperately climbed a tree for a better view. The despair was writ clear on their face when Jeree offered a jaunty wave and then bolted.
"Flee," he hissed at his mount, sending in barreling in the opposite direction. He wasn't worried; that caribou had been the smartest and toughest mount he'd ever trained. The old girl would show up again later. Eventually. After a few hours once his companions had finally run the beast down. Jeree briefly wondered if any of them would cry this time as they realized he was nowhere to be found.
What exactly was all of this about? I'm confused, I know that the despair may be because of the fact that they need to take a long detour in order to link up, but why is Jeree sending his mount off to flee and expecting his companions to hunt it down?
Snapping his death mask down, Jeree pulled his cloak in tightly and changed himself. Like an arrow from a bow, he was off; jumping, hopping, and swinging between the trees. His muscles burned from the unfamiliar exertion, but he moved. A caribou might be akin to his speed across open ground, but among the trackless forests that blanketed the southern world? He was the shadow that slipped the gap between light and dark.
Hmmm...it sounds like Jeree is our Batman from this description, not that I don't mind that.
When he had been the one to crush Arrow Lake, it had always amused Jeree that they had been most terrified of his mask. He knew that it was tradition for them to place a mask on the face of each one of their dead, even the Debtors.
So is the tradition of Death Masks one for the People, as Kaspar did have one, or was he referring to someone else?
@Redium
They started eating each other as a result.
Jeree shrugged. He'd known a lot of people in his childhood who'd ate other people. Cooked, it tasted just like any other meat.
For Luule and the others who'd always lived in the southlands, it was a Big Deal. It just wasn't something that was Done (except at the edges of civilization or during harsh winters, Jeree knew).
Yeah...I'm somewhat glad that we don't have cannibalism as one of our values or traits, and that it is as taboo as it should be.
The fact that some of the People were forced to resort to that while the Fangs stole more than their fair share of food enraged many. Food thieves were hated, beyond even rapists and traitors. Combined with Luule openly censuring them, that anger burned and ignited into violence. The temple at Hill Guard had been damaged by thrown torches and hurled stones, their kennels smashed, and several of the Fangs were killed.
Do we need to spend any actions or anything to repair or renovate the damage to the Temple at Hill Guard or is that covered by our current upkeep?
It wasn't a grievous blow to the Fangs, but they had basically left the temple abandoned since then. In a few more years, the rot and decay would seep in and the temple would sustain real, structural damage.
So it seems like the Temple has suffered mostly cosmetic damage, but we will need to obviously have someone inhabit it and maintain it in order to keep it functional.
The riot had thrown the Fangs from a central position of prominence to the fringes of civilization.
In some ways, it suited the Holy Order. They had always been of a more bestial sort, only the Horned Riders came close, and even they paled in the final accounting. On the other hand, it had made the Fangs more vicious. They snapped and barked, eyeing the rest of the People with distrust. Instead of a central, civilized role, they submerged themselves within the Hunt, turning their maintenance of the system the People used to master the beasts of nature into a way of life.
This will likely leave some lasting impact upon them, as while I am guessing their exile to the periphery will help them with their research and studies on Life, it will at the same time make them more hostile and potentially seditious, with there being a chance of losing them if we aren't careful.
To Jeree, it created an opportunity and a concern. With Hill Guard empty, it would be trivial for him to cement the Horned Riders' place by occupying the temple and turning it to their ends. It was almost an ideal structure for the Horned Riders; the Fangs had obviously had many of the same concerns in raising dogs as they did in caribou. Simply replacing the Fangs, however, was likely to breed serious resentment. Even if Jeree worked to mitigate that, to give the Fangs back their place in the People, it would only be a balm on a scalding burn.
When he says that the Horned Riders replacing the Fangs would lead to resentment, did he mean that the resentment would come from the Fangs towards the Horned Riders or would that resentment be directed at the rest of the People?
@Redium
I'm really hoping we can fix this issue, as the Fangs are darn good skirmishers, and that this entire episode can be seen as a lesson on humility and against corruption.
Either way, the time to act was drawing to a close. Jeree would need to speak to his beloved soon. It would take time to organize things, more so now that Luule had to concern herself with their children.
I'm assuming then, that Luule's pregnancy has past, and that the children, emphasis on plural here, which suggests to me that they potentially had twins, are born already? Any hints on the rolls for the children? I really hope we get lucky with the hero pairing and that we have more heroes waiting in the wings.
"Sur!" he shouted. "I thought... I saw... I'm sorry! Please don't eat me!"
Sur? That sounds to me like a form of address, like sir, is this something new?
A new Luxury resource (Exotic Hardwood) has been discovered by the People.
Hmmm...so it's a luxury, that's interesting. Would it change into just a material if we ever found a more productive use for it, such as making ships per se?
The only downside that Jeree knew of was that the trees would be a beauty only the People, could really appreciate; they were so rare that he doubted any outsiders had ever laid eyes on them before. To trade this beautiful purple wood would likely fetch high returns.
Considering how it's been mentioned many times before that when we go to trade that with the amount of products we have, that our trading partners never have enough to exhaust our trade goods, I don't really think we have a need to trade this to anyone.
Setting aside its beauty, it was dense, heavier for its size than even oak. Water seemed to run right off of it and the heartwood itself showed no signs at all of rot, even as the rest of the tree decayed around it.
This sounds like these trees might be good for making ships later on.
For someone who worked extensively with water and earth, that resistance to rot would be a godsend. The Pearl Divers were certain to want access to the trees by the ton. Even the Island Makers... perhaps not them; the Island Makers had severed all contact a few years previously.
I don't think we necessarily need to inform either of the two about our new trees, as I'm sure their properties are something that will be in high demand, a resource I am not sure we should be trying to expend too much right now. But at the same time, if one of our gift baskets to the Island Makers came with some of this, I'm guessing it would help a lot in regards to repairing relations considering they do have boats.
Angry whispers already permeated, blaming the Soft Eyes for their opportunism, stealing trade that should have been the People. Others blamed the Ember-Eyes and their ambition, some preferred to blame the Island Makers and their fear, jealousy, and weakness.
In the end, who was actually to blame mattered little to the People. They just needed to know what to do. Then they would know who was at fault.
So in short, it looks like the People don't particularly care who takes the blame, just that something is seen to be done to alleviate it. This seems much better than just eliminate the preaching in general.
The Star Shaman are: Introverted, Ascetic, and Patient. Their top two values are: Ordeals and Mastery of Nature.
Horned Riders are: Extroverted, Materialistic, and Patient. Their top two values are: Elitism and Familialism.
Fangs are: Extroverted, Ascetic, and Immediate. Their top values are: Vendetta and Familialism.
Ember-Eyes are: Introverted, Materialistic, and Patient. Their top values are: Elitism and Mastery of Nature.
Frost-Scarred are: Extroverted, Ascetic, and Immediate. Their top values are Ordeals and Might Makes Right.
There's essentially three main axies on which Holy Orders vary: Introversion/Extroversion (how open they are with their mysteries and seeking new recruits), Materialism/Asceticism (whether they focus on the material or spiritual world) and Patience/Immediacy (how willing the orders are to wait in order to see results in their mysteries).
That's interesting. I'm assuming this applies to all of our Holy Orders then? Is there any way to add more categories to these axies in the future?
Ice would be hard to secure without settling more northern settlements or looking for nomads who are willing to work as middlemen. It likely be more efficient in the long-term to build a fleet and then have that go around to the north to extract ice.
I'm assuming this is really long term, as I think we would need copper or bronze tools in order to cut the ice, and actual ships to transport the ice, which I am assuming we would use for food storage.
Meteoric iron is perfectly possible to trade for. It's likely going to have to compete with bog iron, but meteoric iron is generally better quality and it has unique attributes that make it visibly striking.
How rare is meteoric iron compared to bog iron? Also, considering the likely quality differences between the two, I know that this likely won't be relevant until much later due to the timescales, but will having to work with lower quality iron prompt us to develop techniques in order to better forge with it? Finally, I am guessing that the bog iron likely comes from those swamps we discovered this turn?
@Redium
There's no secret nomad hordes waiting in the wings. Now, at least. North America, at the point in the timeline you're in, is still relatively under populated for its size. The initial group that settled across the Bearing Strait was very, very small IRL and that greatly slowed the growth of new populations. It's estimated that all of the Americas had a population of 100 million in 1941 while Europe at the same time had a population of 45 million. Needless to say, the Americas are many time bigger than Europe. It's going to really take time for all of the good land to fill up, but the outer reaches will eventually start filling with nomads. It's still not likely to get as crazy as Eurasian nomads, outside of perhaps the Canadian Prairies and Tundra (the American Midwest was mostly forested before white settlers arrived).
Well, guess that means we won't have to worry about building a Great Wall anytime soon.
The thing that's there is something that isn't too far away (it's just hidden in the unmarked parts of the map), but it's something that's obscure.
Yeah, I don't really know much about Canadian geography, so I'm going to pass on guessing on this.
Transition state! That's what I was thinking of. I could not recall the correct words in the moment.
Yup, I remember that from my chemistry lessons.
Heroes are like catalysts. They provide alternative pathways that are less 'energetic'. They're less chaotic and as such are less likely to make everything fly apart. In short, yes they provide a buffer.
That's good to know, they are likely the only things making this situation palatable and manageable so far. Out of curiosity however, how do they mechanically affect things? Do they give us more options, mitigate the damage we take, or both, by giving us more options that allow us to more tailor our responses?
Note: The Prairies are about 1,000 miles west of Hill Guard. They're very unlikely to have anything to do with you until way, way latter on.
Works for me, gives us more breathing room from the possible spectre of nomad invasions.
[ ] [Kick] Move the Horned Riders into Hill Guard and invite back the Fangs. (- - Stability, - Legitimacy)
Our I think, ideal position that we discussed before.
Personally speaking I preferred having the Horned Riders take the Hill Guard Temple, while the Fangs take the Temple at Arrow Lake, as I would rather we avoid having the two Holy Orders potentially fuse, as was mentioned before as a possibility, and with that we will eventually have 5 Holy Orders to get that next trait.
3 ticks of Stability before Bad Things.
Is 3 ticks past the point of neutral equilibrium or the ticks needed to reach it? Either way I'm pretty sure most of us will try to heed that.
How does Jeree react to the expulsion of the Fangs from their Temple?
[ ] [Kick] Moved the Horned Riders into the suitable temple at Hill Guard, forget the Fangs. (+ Stability)
[ ] [Kick] Move the Horned Riders into Hill Guard, push the Fangs even further to the periphery. (- Stability, -0.25 RA)
[ ] [Kick] Move the Horned Riders into Hill Guard and invite back the Fangs. (- - Stability, - Legitimacy)
[ ] [Kick] Give the Fangs back Hill Guard, find something else for the Horned Riders. (- Stability, - Legitimacy, +0.25 RA)
[ ] [Kick] Find another temple for the Fangs while the Horned Riders take Hill Guard. (- Stability, +0.25 RA)
The first option here is not really palatable to me, as while it will give the Horned Riders the Temple they need to be more established, this will likely alienate the Fangs and make them more likely to disappear as a Holy Order. While the stability gained is nice, I don't think it's particularly worth it.
The second option here is even worse than the first as this will definitely be seen as hostile to the Fangs, potentially prompting violence on their part and a dissolution of their Holy Order. That -0.25 in RA is not worth the potential damages.
The third option is something I want to avoid as while it will likely placate the Fangs, it will also more likely than not prompt the two Holy Orders to fuse, which will be disadvantageous to us considering how beneficial that Holy Order retention trait will be as we will likely have 5 once the Star Shaman develop enough. Plus, that double stability tick damage and legitimacy damage is likely too much, especially considering how we are nowhere near done with this crisis yet.
The fourth option is also not worth it. The only place where the Horned Riders can go, in terms of a Temple, is the on at the Cave of the Stars, and I don't think any of us want them to replace the Star Shaman. Furthermore the stability damage and legitimacy damage aren't worth returning things to the status quo.
The fifth option is my preferred option. In terms of cost losing one stability and getting a minor increase in Religious Authority is worth knocking out the two troubles of finding places for both the Horned Riders and the Fangs. Hill Guard, as has been noted previously, is essentially the perfect Temple for the Horned Riders to settle in, both in terms of its design being easily suited for them, as well as the climate allowing for the caribou to actually survive there. Similarly for the Fangs, considering the stigma and resentment that Hill Guard likely holds for them, moving them to Arrow Lake, where they won't as likely be as well known and able to cause problems, is a bonus. That way we can reintegrate them and ease some of their potential hostility, while also getting a resident for that Temple. In terms of cost it is one of the more reasonable options as while it does cost stability, among the other options that do, it is still minimal at only one, while the gain in RA is also small. Thus I think this is our best option in terms of making sure the Fangs and the Horned Riders survive as Holy Orders.
A new Luxury resource (Exotic Hardwood) has been discovered by the People. How should they secure it?
[ ] [Tree] Work on expanding the grove. (Encourage Arborists)
[ ] [Tree] Have the shaman spend time with the trees, studying them. (Study: Life)
[ ] [Tree] Strike back against the bandits who have been attacking the People's explorers. (Raid: Southern Bandits)
[ ] [Tree] Try and work the new tree into the People's arboriculture. (-1 Turn to fully change Arboriculture paradigm)
[ ] [Tree] Press on further, see if there's more that can be found. (Explore: South of the Cave of Stars)
[ ] [Tree] Work on building good trails into the area for easier access. (New Trails)
When it comes to the exotic hardwood, in terms of the first option, I agree with what has already been said. Right now arborists as a choice are currently a staples negative action, so while it might be nice to get more of them in order to satiate our luxuries needs, staples are more important. So we should probably pass on this option.
The second option is not a bad one, as it would give us a free study action, however considering that study actions are free in terms of cost, I think we can pass on it and do it later.
The third option, is somewhat curious.
@Redium Are the Southern Bandits an actual faction that we can now raid? Or is this something that cropped up just recently that needs to be addressed? Because aside from them harassing our explorers they don't seem to have been mentioned having that much of an effect on us, so it might not be that worth it to raid them. Another related question I have is, if we don't raid the Southern Bandits, will that have an adverse effect on our attempts to build trails into this area? Because if it does, then we might want to start with this.
The fourth option doesn't seem worth it to me. The change in our Arboriculture paradigm is something that we likely need sooner than later, as it would free up a lot more staples and allow us to more easily feed ourselves, so adding some luxury trees who don't yet have that great of a use for us, is in my opinion not worth it as freeing up so much food will give us much better flexibility later on.
The fifth option, while a good option, is not as useful, as it is essentially a gamble if we find anything useful.
The sixth option is the option I prefer as this is a general increase in efficiency for all of the People, thus increasing our supplies of food and materials, and something that will pay dividends later. The only reason I would not pick this, is if the Southern Bandits increases the risk for doing so, as I would rather not create a trail just for bandits to exploit it.
What should the People do about the breakdown in relations with the Island Makers?
[ ] [Trade] Try and offer an apology to the Island Makers. (Gift Mission, - - Legitimacy, - Stability, - 0.5 RA)
[ ] [Trade] Lean on the Soft Eyes, try to get them to cease being a middleman. (+ Stability)
[ ] [Trade] Ignore the situation, allow the shaman to continue their attempts. (- Legitimacy)
[ ] [Trade] Push harder. Send more shaman. (++ Stability, + Legitimacy, +1 RA)
We know this one from before. A Gift Mission should be basically a temporary ding to Food and Luxuries to send a fancy expedition and beg pardon. Or it forms a trade caravan instead for permanent costs
Not necessarily a good idea at present, mostly because domestic culture is in turmoil and as long as we avoid outright war(given their values, we would, unless we forced them to let us in), they probably won't declare on us.
Not sure if we might accidentally cause terminal offense though. Neither our heroes are exactly the Diplomacy sort.
Personal strategy is to ignore them for now, come back next generation with a trade push after we sort out the RA issues one way or another.
If we take past precedent into account, where our last gift mission was sent to the Northlands in order to apologize for our killing their High Shaman, that signals to me that we've likely offended the Island Makers greatly enough to some degree. While I would prefer keeping them as trading partners, and at least neutral to us and not turn them into a rival and enemy that threatens our southern borders, at the same time I don't know if any actual gift mission will work.
For instance, if our gift mission is us simply going to them and offering them gifts in apology, yet without us restraining the Ember Eyes and their preaching, then this mission will likely be a waste as the issue will probably pop up again, and we will once again offend them enough so that we are cut off. Then again, considering the fact that this option does entail decrease in RA, it likely indicates we are trying to hold the reins on the Ember Eyes to prevent this issue from cropping up again and making this a useless gesture.
@Redium Can we assume that if we choose the Gift Mission option, that we will be reining back in the Ember Eyes so that they don't try to preach and make this option effectively worthless?
When it comes to the gift mission option, I am of two minds. If we can rein in the Ember Eyes and their preaching enough so that they require our consent to do so, then I think this option might be worth it. The Island Makers are a powerful faction, ranking third in the leader boards, and one who borders us to our south, allowing them to make trouble if they wish. While I don't believe that we have terminally offended them, considering how memories and events can warp over time, I would prefer if we make an immediate attempt now to rectify the issue, so that it doesn't snowball into a bigger problem later. Sure, the Island Makers do not provide us with that important of trade goods aside from the luxury pottery and mica, however having safe borders is priceless in my opinion. On the other hand, it's not like we can't exactly wait on this issue, assuming our shaman don't continue their attempts, as the Island Makers seem like not the type to immediately go to war.
In short, if this option allows us to rein in the Ember Eyes and their preaching somewhat, while repairing our relations with the Island Makers, I think losing a little legitimacy and stability is worth it, as it doesn't look like either will be redlined.
In terms of the second choice, while leaning on the Soft Eyes is something we can easily do, as we do provide most of their food, I don't know exactly how this will be seen by the Island Makers. While I do like the stability gain we will get from this, I am not sure if acting so blatantly aggressive in this fashion will endear us to anyone else nearby, as this might turn the Soft Eyes from our willing vassals to grudging ones, with the Island Makers potentially exploiting them for this. Still, this will solve the current issue.
When it comes to the third choice, ignoring the situation and continuing to allow shaman to annoy the Island Makers seems like a recipe for blowing up our relations with them, not enough for them to go to war with us over it, but enough to set them against us in the future.
Finally, the last option is right out in my opinion as not only does it increase RA, something we don't want, it deliberately looks like a determined and hostile action to the Island Makers, something that might be enough to prompt them to go to war with us.
[X] [Kick] Find another temple for the Fangs while the Horned Riders take Hill Guard. (- Stability, +0.25 RA)
[X] [Tree] Work on building good trails into the area for easier access. (New Trails)
[X] [Trade] Try and offer an apology to the Island Makers. (Gift Mission, - - Legitimacy, - Stability, - 0.5 RA)
.
