From Stone to the Stars
- Thread starter Redium
- Start date
- Original Alt. History
Ghostdevil
The Devil of Ghosts
- Location
- United States
In-Universe facts don't mean anything in least it effects something, or there are mechanics that use this information the characters think are true, so In least the QM confirms that there is in fact magic then we must assume that it isn't true or it is undiscovered, just because characters in the story believe its true doesn't make it true, because you have to understand context, If this was an explicit fantasy setting where magic is suppose to exist then thats one thing, but this is a Civ Quest with characters that believe in things merely because they don't know any better where our people grow in understanding based on our actions; however due to human nature the QM is replicating that means our people attribute things to spirits or Gods. The last update even shows this where our hero is training Wolves and mentions how him actually succeeding means that Human and Wolf Spirits were created to work together based on nothing but his success in taming them then using them to effectively hunt.
So How about you Prove that magic exists? In this quest there is no real mention of magic other than religious beliefs, even in POC the closest thing to supernatural are genius characters and even then its anything but concrete.
Summary: Your argument hinges on the POV characters in the quests having no bias or skewed perspective.
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- Location
- Southampton, Great Britain
- Pronouns
- He/Him
You can prove that the in-character characters have biased or skewed beliefs using actual evidence instead of just claiming they are false because things don't work that way in RL. Which has been plenty of times in other civ quests. Using your example in the last update, how you know that isn't actually the case and is automatically false? I'm inclined to remain sceptical of it being the truth, but I'm not about to just dismiss it as being automatically false because a fictional setting obviously works just like RL. At the moment, what we are told in-universe is that wolf taming shows that Human and Wolf spirits working together and to claim that is false is a positive claim because you are claiming that what we are shown is wrong. And he might well be wrong, but you have to prove that using evidence and not just dismiss him as being wrong.
Summary: You continue to fail in providing evidence to back up your claims.
Ghostdevil
The Devil of Ghosts
- Location
- United States
There is no evidence because its a negative, the logical stand point is to assume it false in least the QM says otherwise, your raving over evidence, but you have yet to prove that there is magic beyond what the characters think is true
Your argument again hinges on the fact that the characters are 100% right and unbias, but that is obviously not true, at no point in this quest has our people done anything magical, taming animals is explicitly not supernatural, animals working well with humans is again not Supernatural. The Proof here that you want so much is that the example i gave is something that has been done in REAL LIFE without the need for magical bs and Spirits, so based off that Spirits are not the reason he was successful (in least they need magic to do something we did in real life without).
Basically, the characters have done nothing supernatural; however they CLAIM that its because of supernatural things even though theres nothing that shows this.
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@Ghostdevil , @Oshha , I think this would be a really good time to keep in mind one of the points Redium made in the Forward...
Ghostdevil
The Devil of Ghosts
- Location
- United States
Eh, lets cut out the middleman and just ask... maybe the QM will actually answer unlike the other QMs
@Redium do you plan on having magic existing in the quest? Or are you focusing on the Civ and tech growing aspect?
- Location
- Southampton, Great Britain
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Furthermore, I question your claim that it is the logical stand point to assume that something in a fictional setting is false if it isn't true in real life. Alvar never existed in RL. Is it logical to assume that he doesn't exist in the quest because he never existed in RL? Because according to your logic, it is negative claim to say that he doesn't exist in the quest. What about the River-Bend Tribe? Do why not exist because Alvar is an in-universe character and therefore he is biased and skewed in his perspective so his knowledge can't be trusted?
Additionally, you seem to be failing to understand that fiction can differ to reality. Just because something works one way in RL doesn't mean that we automatically assume something we are shown in a fictional setting to be false when we are shown it in a fictional setting. How do we know that things can't possibly work differently to reality in a fictional setting?
Your argument of 'but it doesn't work that way in RL so it is automatically' doesn't hold any water when we are talking about something we are shown to be happening in a fictional setting. You say your example that it can be done in RL without the supernatural. So what? How does that mean that it is automatically impossible for characters to achieve the same thing using a different method? Do jets not exists because it was already possible to fly in a biplane? Do boats not exist because you could already travel across water via swimming?
Why it isn't a positive claim to say that in-universe information is wrong? Why shouldn't you have to prove evidence that in-universe characters are wrong?
Last edited:
- Location
- Southampton, Great Britain
- Pronouns
- He/Him
A good debate is fun? But if Ghostdevil wants to agree to disagree, I'm game.
Eh, lets cut out the middleman and just ask... maybe the QM will actually answer unlike the other QMs
@Redium do you plan on having magic existing in the quest? Or are you focusing on the Civ and tech growing aspect?
Good idea. @Redium I second this question.
Ah. I suppose I was under the worried misperception that it something less wholesome than a 'good, fun debate'.
Sorry about that.
BungieONI
Seven gremlins in a trench coat
- Location
- Lickwidget
- Pronouns
- She/Her
HAH. We did the thing where Nomads always seemed to get Double Heroes. But better!
Hah!
I approve of this immensely.
5.0 First Epic
[X] Set up a more permanent camp, friends!
Age had been harsh on him, Alvar thought. He missed the days of his youth, the days where he could run and swim from first light until the setting of the sun, sleep on the hard ground and then be ready to go the next day. He was old, rickety, now. His bones snapped and crackled and popped. Despite it all, he grinned, he still had it; among People's hunters, he was the best.
But there were moments where all he could feel was helpless. He had buried countless friends, confidants; his sister was long dead, only one of her children were still among the living, though there were a few grandnieces and nephews. Out of his entire generation, there were only a few that still lived. Given some of their health, he might soon be the last.
The worst funeral, though, was the one he attended now. His third-born son was too young to die. Old enough to make it past childhood, but not enough to fall to old age.
He'd had other children before, and buried a few of them too, but they were not the children of his love. He had been much, much older than the beautiful, vibrant speaker of the River-Bend tribe. He had literally had children of an age with her! But, if there was anyone, Natka was the love of his life. No other woman could compare in her smile, her wit, her general love of life. Alvar had caught himself smiling when he returned from near every hunt! Just being able to see her again made his life worth living. If he was the moon, then she was his sea of stars.
Natka had him wrapped around her fingers.
Four children did she see fit to bless him with and all of them had been great. The eldest, Feodor, was a hunter and a craftsman besides! He was good, at least as good as Alvar had been at his peak. The second, Lucjan, shared his elder brother's affinity for crafts. The youngest, Tymon, was excellent at organizing people. If there was a project to be done, he could make it happen but putting the exact right person in the spot to get it done.
Each of them had found a niche within the People and the River-Bend tribe. Feodor had created an ingenious series of traps made from trees and other dead fall. Things that could kill without any input from a hunter! It made hunting profoundly easier. Instead of having to find and stalk a beast, a trap could be left for them to stumble into. Dozens of traps could be set and even if most caught nothing, those catches took no effort! It also made hunting much more accessible. Children, elders, mothers new and to-be, were all capable of setting smaller traps while they gathered fruits, roots, or water-grass. The return wasn't much, but it was enough so that everyone could now be assured of having meat at every meal.
Lucjan had given the People shinning flint. A hunter had uncovered a number of small, shiny black stones several years ago, but Lucjan was the first to realize that when knapped like flint, they made blades so fine and sharp that they seemed to slide through flesh without any resistance. The only downside of the new Blackstone tools was that Blackstone tended to fracture or shatter, even more so than flint. An arrow striking bone or a spear tip driven into dense muscle was likely to utterly shatter, but it wasn't like flint was extremely durable either.
Tymon was a thinker, planning was his weapon. He always seemed to know who would be lucky on a hunt or when someone was faking strength to hide an illness. Or when a child had the perfect hands to knap flint, carve bone, or stitch clothing. It often took Natka's skill at words to smooth over his suggestions and actually get them implemented, but once people realized how often Tymon was right, they started to go along with his ideas. There wasn't one major change that people could point to, a contribution like his brothers', but he often made everyone's lives easier.
It was with a heavy heart that Alvar turned to his sons, standing on the grave of their brother, and asked them to turn their gifts to war.
"The tribe of the Fingers has attacked us," Alvar said simply. "They've raided the tribe of your mother - your tribe - for years beyond count. Natka has said that her mother's mother could not remember a time where the Fingers did not sent out their men with violence in their hearts. Those raids have only grown in strength. Your brother has died on the end of their spears. Natka..."
Alvar had met fought in the most recent battle, his spear ending the life of more than one. The wolves he had spent so many years taming proved their worth in alerting the People to the River-Bend tribe's distress. He and the other hunters in camp had managed to get in position to support River-Bend, but they were barely in time. The men of the Fingers had been quick and brutal in their raid, bringing fire to burn the wood-and-straw huts of the tribe. Chaos had reigned upon their arrival and more than a few of the River-Bend's spears and arrows flew towards them.
Status Gained: Epic Age!
At the heart of the raid, a massive woman stalked, directing the raiders of the Fingers with cold, sure precision. The jaw of an enormous bear hung from her neck and the creature's skull sat on top of her head. She was massively strong and skilled with the great, two-handed club she carried. Alvar had seen her fling a man with a single blow, sending him crashing through a flaming hut. He had engaged her then and even managed to be the first to draw blood; the bear-woman would carry an enormous scar across her face for the rest of her days.
But... in the end he had lost. Her club splintered his spear and he'd been knocked to the ground. The only thing that had saved him was Feodor leading the People's hunters, rallying them and swiftly entrapping the raiders from the Fingers. Despite that, the bear-woman managed to pull her forces to safety. Many died, but they managed to take their loot and their captives and escape down the river.
Their retreat was swift and just as well coordinated. Loading their captives and loot into hollowed logs, the raiders were gone before they could be intercepted. By going down river, they could leave at nearly three times the speed that one could go up it. The entire situation just left the River-Bend tribe feeling weak and impotent. They could counter-raid the Fingers easily, but trying to return would be extremely difficult. Even through unpathed forest, it would be faster to hike than to travel by river.
Women and children were taken as well as most of the River-Bend tribe's collected water-grass, dried and smoked meat. If the People hadn't been there, it's quite likely that the River-Bend tribe would've suffered starvation in the days immediately after the raid. They'd lost much of their food reserves and the few hunters they'd had available weren't enough to quickly hunt and replace stocks. While no one he said it, the River-Bend tribe was immensely dependent on the People. They couldn't leave, their dependence on harvesting water-grass meant that they couldn't move. If they did, they would definitely starve; they didn't have enough hunters to bring them meat. It might have been possible, though very hard, had their reserves been full, but they were almost empty now.
"Father—" Feodor started, speaking softly but harshly. "What do we know about the Fingers? We need information. For our brother... and for mother."
"I found someone," Tymon said. "Someone who always felt a little bit out of place among the River. She used to be from the Fingers, apparently. A woman who had left them to follow a husband among the River. She says that the Fingers are a massive intersection of rivers; at least five major ones, like the fingers on a hand. At the heart of that is an island made of three hills in the center of the rivers. The Fingersmen live there amongst great trees. They apparently collect this... brown power from the trees; it's supposed to be a food of the spirits. The captives they take are... forced to work, gathering the powder and tending to massive fires that burn day and night. Any captive that refuses work is not punished, directly. Instead, all captives in that person's cohort are denied food until all of them are back and working."
"They force people to work?" Lucjan asked. "That can't work well. Those best at something are called to it. They then trade the fruits of their labour for food or favours. Someone forced to work will be terrible at it."
"It doesn't work well," Tymon said. "For the captives, anyway. It works for those on top."
"Regardless," Feodor cut in. "The information is important, but irrelevant. We need to respond. Once things have recovered enough, the hunters can depart and strike back."
"That's expected," Tymon said. "The Fingersmen raid everyone along the five rivers. I'm certain they've been attacked before this. They need too many captives. With how week the River-Bend tribe is, we wouldn't be able to defeat them. At least, we can't if we wanted to keep everyone fed. Hunters who are fighting are not hunters who are hunting. We allow many of the People to focus on something that isn't making gathering food or making tools to gather food. We'd be best served by doing nothing."
"Limit the size of the raid, then," Feodor said. "Send only the best of the best and strike at night. We can use fire just as easily as the Fingersmen and escape in the chaos. The weaker hunters can remain here, protect the camp and gather food."
"There's another alternative," Lucjan suggested. "Don't fight them, but don't ignore the problem." He pulled aside his furs to reveal a beautiful amulet of Berrystones wrapped tightly in leather cord. "Offer gifts. We have Whitestone, Berrystone, Blackstone, fine furs, quality meat; there are things that are useful or pretty, things that other tribes want. If we exchange gifts, then the Fingersmen are likely to give back the captives they took from us. They might also be inclined to trade the brown powder they harvest."
"You want to help them expand their atrocity?" Feodor asked, incredulous. "They will use the Blackstone we give them and turn it on us!"
"Unlikely," Tymon said. "The giving of gifts would mean they become dependent on us. After all, we don't need captives or their special spirit food. If they take Blackstone for tools and weapons, they will need us."
"Then you will let an offense against us go unanswered. Father," Feodor said. "When the North Lake raiders attacked Crystal Lake in your boyhood, you slew them; as many as you possible could. Has the Tribe of North Lake ever bothered us since? No, not a peep. We burn their stores of food and the Fingersmen will not be a problem. Just like the River-Bend tribe, they are dependent on water-grass. They're unlikely to have nearly enough hunters to support their population and their captives. They'll melt like ice."
"Father," Tymon said. "What should we do?"
Alvar's sons waited for him to respond. He remembered the Battle on the Creek and the arrows flying into swimming backs. He had been angry then, but was that the best course of action for the People?
What does Alvar Winterborn suggest?
[ ] [Response] Feodor's Suggestion (Elite Raid)
[ ] [Response] Lucjan's Suggestion (Trade)
[ ] [Response] Tymon's Suggestion (Do Nothing)
How did the People's Heroes work?
(Martial - Pick 2)
[ ] [Martial] Increase Hunting
[ ] [Martial] Expand Wolfpacks
[ ] [Martial] Raid
- [ ] North Lake Tribe, Fingers
[ ] [Martial] Promote Folk Wrestling
[ ] [Martial] Expand Traps
(Art - Pick 2)
[ ] [Art] Investigate Special Stone
[ ] [Art] Create Annual Festival
[ ] [Art] Expand Traps
[ ] [Art] Found Holy Site
- [ ] Location
(Admin - Pick 1)
[ ] [Admin] Create Annual Festival
[ ] [Admin] Study Travel
[ ] [Admin] Establish Waystation
[ ] [Admin] Harvest Water-Grass
What else did the People Focus on? (Pick1 2 due to Climate Rolls)
[ ] [Action] Expand Wolfpacks
[ ] [Action] Create Annual Festival
[ ] [Action] Increase Hunting
[ ] [Action] Explore
[ ] [Action] Study Travel
[ ] [Action] Establish Waystation
[ ] [Action] Found Holy Site
-[ ] River-Bend
[ ] [Action] Investigate Special Stone
[ ] [Action] Raid
- [ ] North Lake Tribe, Fingers
[ ] [Action] Promote Folk Wrestling
[ ] [Action] Expand Traps
[ ] [Action] Harvest Water-Grass
Do the People move as the years pass by?
[ ] [Go] No
[ ] [Go] Crystal Lake
[ ] [Go] East (Too Dangerous)
[ ] [Go] South (Too Dangerous)
[ ] [Go] North (Too Dangerous)
Age had been harsh on him, Alvar thought. He missed the days of his youth, the days where he could run and swim from first light until the setting of the sun, sleep on the hard ground and then be ready to go the next day. He was old, rickety, now. His bones snapped and crackled and popped. Despite it all, he grinned, he still had it; among People's hunters, he was the best.
But there were moments where all he could feel was helpless. He had buried countless friends, confidants; his sister was long dead, only one of her children were still among the living, though there were a few grandnieces and nephews. Out of his entire generation, there were only a few that still lived. Given some of their health, he might soon be the last.
The worst funeral, though, was the one he attended now. His third-born son was too young to die. Old enough to make it past childhood, but not enough to fall to old age.
He'd had other children before, and buried a few of them too, but they were not the children of his love. He had been much, much older than the beautiful, vibrant speaker of the River-Bend tribe. He had literally had children of an age with her! But, if there was anyone, Natka was the love of his life. No other woman could compare in her smile, her wit, her general love of life. Alvar had caught himself smiling when he returned from near every hunt! Just being able to see her again made his life worth living. If he was the moon, then she was his sea of stars.
Natka had him wrapped around her fingers.
Four children did she see fit to bless him with and all of them had been great. The eldest, Feodor, was a hunter and a craftsman besides! He was good, at least as good as Alvar had been at his peak. The second, Lucjan, shared his elder brother's affinity for crafts. The youngest, Tymon, was excellent at organizing people. If there was a project to be done, he could make it happen but putting the exact right person in the spot to get it done.
Each of them had found a niche within the People and the River-Bend tribe. Feodor had created an ingenious series of traps made from trees and other dead fall. Things that could kill without any input from a hunter! It made hunting profoundly easier. Instead of having to find and stalk a beast, a trap could be left for them to stumble into. Dozens of traps could be set and even if most caught nothing, those catches took no effort! It also made hunting much more accessible. Children, elders, mothers new and to-be, were all capable of setting smaller traps while they gathered fruits, roots, or water-grass. The return wasn't much, but it was enough so that everyone could now be assured of having meat at every meal.
Lucjan had given the People shinning flint. A hunter had uncovered a number of small, shiny black stones several years ago, but Lucjan was the first to realize that when knapped like flint, they made blades so fine and sharp that they seemed to slide through flesh without any resistance. The only downside of the new Blackstone tools was that Blackstone tended to fracture or shatter, even more so than flint. An arrow striking bone or a spear tip driven into dense muscle was likely to utterly shatter, but it wasn't like flint was extremely durable either.
Tymon was a thinker, planning was his weapon. He always seemed to know who would be lucky on a hunt or when someone was faking strength to hide an illness. Or when a child had the perfect hands to knap flint, carve bone, or stitch clothing. It often took Natka's skill at words to smooth over his suggestions and actually get them implemented, but once people realized how often Tymon was right, they started to go along with his ideas. There wasn't one major change that people could point to, a contribution like his brothers', but he often made everyone's lives easier.
It was with a heavy heart that Alvar turned to his sons, standing on the grave of their brother, and asked them to turn their gifts to war.
"The tribe of the Fingers has attacked us," Alvar said simply. "They've raided the tribe of your mother - your tribe - for years beyond count. Natka has said that her mother's mother could not remember a time where the Fingers did not sent out their men with violence in their hearts. Those raids have only grown in strength. Your brother has died on the end of their spears. Natka..."
Alvar had met fought in the most recent battle, his spear ending the life of more than one. The wolves he had spent so many years taming proved their worth in alerting the People to the River-Bend tribe's distress. He and the other hunters in camp had managed to get in position to support River-Bend, but they were barely in time. The men of the Fingers had been quick and brutal in their raid, bringing fire to burn the wood-and-straw huts of the tribe. Chaos had reigned upon their arrival and more than a few of the River-Bend's spears and arrows flew towards them.
Status Gained: Epic Age!
Heroes walk amongst men in an age of strife. Song and story of the deeds committed in this age will echo across all of time and serve as inspiration for countless generations to come. Blood will be spilled and glory is to be gained!
Trigger Condition: > 5 Heroes; Conflict between Heroes
Effects: Increased Hero generation; doubled Hero effects
Resolve Condition: Source of conflict is resolved OR Heroes < 3
Reward: Prestige
Trigger Condition: > 5 Heroes; Conflict between Heroes
Effects: Increased Hero generation; doubled Hero effects
Resolve Condition: Source of conflict is resolved OR Heroes < 3
Reward: Prestige
At the heart of the raid, a massive woman stalked, directing the raiders of the Fingers with cold, sure precision. The jaw of an enormous bear hung from her neck and the creature's skull sat on top of her head. She was massively strong and skilled with the great, two-handed club she carried. Alvar had seen her fling a man with a single blow, sending him crashing through a flaming hut. He had engaged her then and even managed to be the first to draw blood; the bear-woman would carry an enormous scar across her face for the rest of her days.
But... in the end he had lost. Her club splintered his spear and he'd been knocked to the ground. The only thing that had saved him was Feodor leading the People's hunters, rallying them and swiftly entrapping the raiders from the Fingers. Despite that, the bear-woman managed to pull her forces to safety. Many died, but they managed to take their loot and their captives and escape down the river.
Their retreat was swift and just as well coordinated. Loading their captives and loot into hollowed logs, the raiders were gone before they could be intercepted. By going down river, they could leave at nearly three times the speed that one could go up it. The entire situation just left the River-Bend tribe feeling weak and impotent. They could counter-raid the Fingers easily, but trying to return would be extremely difficult. Even through unpathed forest, it would be faster to hike than to travel by river.
Women and children were taken as well as most of the River-Bend tribe's collected water-grass, dried and smoked meat. If the People hadn't been there, it's quite likely that the River-Bend tribe would've suffered starvation in the days immediately after the raid. They'd lost much of their food reserves and the few hunters they'd had available weren't enough to quickly hunt and replace stocks. While no one he said it, the River-Bend tribe was immensely dependent on the People. They couldn't leave, their dependence on harvesting water-grass meant that they couldn't move. If they did, they would definitely starve; they didn't have enough hunters to bring them meat. It might have been possible, though very hard, had their reserves been full, but they were almost empty now.
"Father—" Feodor started, speaking softly but harshly. "What do we know about the Fingers? We need information. For our brother... and for mother."
"I found someone," Tymon said. "Someone who always felt a little bit out of place among the River. She used to be from the Fingers, apparently. A woman who had left them to follow a husband among the River. She says that the Fingers are a massive intersection of rivers; at least five major ones, like the fingers on a hand. At the heart of that is an island made of three hills in the center of the rivers. The Fingersmen live there amongst great trees. They apparently collect this... brown power from the trees; it's supposed to be a food of the spirits. The captives they take are... forced to work, gathering the powder and tending to massive fires that burn day and night. Any captive that refuses work is not punished, directly. Instead, all captives in that person's cohort are denied food until all of them are back and working."
"They force people to work?" Lucjan asked. "That can't work well. Those best at something are called to it. They then trade the fruits of their labour for food or favours. Someone forced to work will be terrible at it."
"It doesn't work well," Tymon said. "For the captives, anyway. It works for those on top."
"Regardless," Feodor cut in. "The information is important, but irrelevant. We need to respond. Once things have recovered enough, the hunters can depart and strike back."
"That's expected," Tymon said. "The Fingersmen raid everyone along the five rivers. I'm certain they've been attacked before this. They need too many captives. With how week the River-Bend tribe is, we wouldn't be able to defeat them. At least, we can't if we wanted to keep everyone fed. Hunters who are fighting are not hunters who are hunting. We allow many of the People to focus on something that isn't making gathering food or making tools to gather food. We'd be best served by doing nothing."
"Limit the size of the raid, then," Feodor said. "Send only the best of the best and strike at night. We can use fire just as easily as the Fingersmen and escape in the chaos. The weaker hunters can remain here, protect the camp and gather food."
"There's another alternative," Lucjan suggested. "Don't fight them, but don't ignore the problem." He pulled aside his furs to reveal a beautiful amulet of Berrystones wrapped tightly in leather cord. "Offer gifts. We have Whitestone, Berrystone, Blackstone, fine furs, quality meat; there are things that are useful or pretty, things that other tribes want. If we exchange gifts, then the Fingersmen are likely to give back the captives they took from us. They might also be inclined to trade the brown powder they harvest."
"You want to help them expand their atrocity?" Feodor asked, incredulous. "They will use the Blackstone we give them and turn it on us!"
"Unlikely," Tymon said. "The giving of gifts would mean they become dependent on us. After all, we don't need captives or their special spirit food. If they take Blackstone for tools and weapons, they will need us."
"Then you will let an offense against us go unanswered. Father," Feodor said. "When the North Lake raiders attacked Crystal Lake in your boyhood, you slew them; as many as you possible could. Has the Tribe of North Lake ever bothered us since? No, not a peep. We burn their stores of food and the Fingersmen will not be a problem. Just like the River-Bend tribe, they are dependent on water-grass. They're unlikely to have nearly enough hunters to support their population and their captives. They'll melt like ice."
"Father," Tymon said. "What should we do?"
Alvar's sons waited for him to respond. He remembered the Battle on the Creek and the arrows flying into swimming backs. He had been angry then, but was that the best course of action for the People?
What does Alvar Winterborn suggest?
[ ] [Response] Feodor's Suggestion (Elite Raid)
[ ] [Response] Lucjan's Suggestion (Trade)
[ ] [Response] Tymon's Suggestion (Do Nothing)
How did the People's Heroes work?
(Martial - Pick 2)
[ ] [Martial] Increase Hunting
[ ] [Martial] Expand Wolfpacks
[ ] [Martial] Raid
- [ ] North Lake Tribe, Fingers
[ ] [Martial] Promote Folk Wrestling
[ ] [Martial] Expand Traps
(Art - Pick 2)
[ ] [Art] Investigate Special Stone
[ ] [Art] Create Annual Festival
[ ] [Art] Expand Traps
[ ] [Art] Found Holy Site
- [ ] Location
(Admin - Pick 1)
[ ] [Admin] Create Annual Festival
[ ] [Admin] Study Travel
[ ] [Admin] Harvest Water-Grass
What else did the People Focus on? (Pick
Expand Wolfpacks - Increase the number of tamed wolves that follow the People. Willfully leave out food for them in order to attract more wolves and begin taking their young into the tribe as Hunters.
Create Annual Festival - Celebrate widely and graciously for the success that the People have faced. Eat, drink, and be merry!
Increase Hunting - Double down on the People's traditional method of gathering sustenance. Work to bring in additional meat, fur, and leather.
Explore (Wonderful World bonus) - Search far and wide in this strange new land for things that may be of benefit to the People. Resources can be found and contact established with other tribes.
Study Travel (Wonderful World bonus) - Invest time in learning how most effectively to travel. The world is harsh and strange, learning how to traverse it will save the People much in effort and food.
Establish Waystation - Create a relay point for the People, a place that they can stay during their travels or when they make annual trips to different locations.
Found Holy Site - Create a small shrine in honour of the spirits. Can be placed at places of geographical or cultural signifiance. (River-Bend)
-Location?
Investigate Special Stone - The Spirits have been generous in providing numerous tools for the People to work. Investigate them and try to find new ways to apply the unique properties of these stones.
Promote Folk Wrestling (Increased by Bellicose Bearing) - Children fight as children will, wrestling and playing in order to learn the basics of violence and hunting. This is normally discouraged as they age by the Elders so that they can focus on necessary violence, but perhaps they should act to promote it instead? Encourage people to maintain the skill at violence against people that they acquired as children.
Raid - The People have turned their hunting of beasts into the hunting of humans. Strike down those who stand in your way and collect the rewards.
-Target?
Expand Traps - A new invention for the People, these clever man-made dead falls allow beasts to be crushed without any danger to a hunter, or, indeed, without any effort!
Harvest Water-Grass - A curious plant that was found and cultivated by the River-Bend tribe. Workers in canoe strip seeds from stalks growing in the water and then boil them for food.
Create Annual Festival - Celebrate widely and graciously for the success that the People have faced. Eat, drink, and be merry!
Increase Hunting - Double down on the People's traditional method of gathering sustenance. Work to bring in additional meat, fur, and leather.
Explore (Wonderful World bonus) - Search far and wide in this strange new land for things that may be of benefit to the People. Resources can be found and contact established with other tribes.
Study Travel (Wonderful World bonus) - Invest time in learning how most effectively to travel. The world is harsh and strange, learning how to traverse it will save the People much in effort and food.
Establish Waystation - Create a relay point for the People, a place that they can stay during their travels or when they make annual trips to different locations.
Found Holy Site - Create a small shrine in honour of the spirits. Can be placed at places of geographical or cultural signifiance. (River-Bend)
-Location?
Investigate Special Stone - The Spirits have been generous in providing numerous tools for the People to work. Investigate them and try to find new ways to apply the unique properties of these stones.
Promote Folk Wrestling (Increased by Bellicose Bearing) - Children fight as children will, wrestling and playing in order to learn the basics of violence and hunting. This is normally discouraged as they age by the Elders so that they can focus on necessary violence, but perhaps they should act to promote it instead? Encourage people to maintain the skill at violence against people that they acquired as children.
Raid - The People have turned their hunting of beasts into the hunting of humans. Strike down those who stand in your way and collect the rewards.
-Target?
Expand Traps - A new invention for the People, these clever man-made dead falls allow beasts to be crushed without any danger to a hunter, or, indeed, without any effort!
Harvest Water-Grass - A curious plant that was found and cultivated by the River-Bend tribe. Workers in canoe strip seeds from stalks growing in the water and then boil them for food.
[ ] [Action] Expand Wolfpacks
[ ] [Action] Create Annual Festival
[ ] [Action] Increase Hunting
[ ] [Action] Explore
[ ] [Action] Study Travel
[ ] [Action] Establish Waystation
[ ] [Action] Found Holy Site
-[ ] River-Bend
[ ] [Action] Investigate Special Stone
[ ] [Action] Raid
- [ ] North Lake Tribe, Fingers
[ ] [Action] Promote Folk Wrestling
[ ] [Action] Expand Traps
[ ] [Action] Harvest Water-Grass
Do the People move as the years pass by?
[ ] [Go] No
[ ] [Go] Crystal Lake
[ ] [Go] South (Too Dangerous)
[ ] [Go] North (Too Dangerous)
Ghostdevil
The Devil of Ghosts
- Location
- United States
[X] [Response] Feodor's Suggestion (Elite Raid)
[X] [Martial] Expand Wolfpacks
[X] [Martial] Raid
- [X] Fingers
Were warring them so lets go!
[X] [Art] Expand Traps
[X] [Art] Investigate Special Stone
[X] [Admin] Harvest Water-Grass
[X] [Action] Expand Wolfpacks
[X] [Action] Raid
- [X] Fingers
[X] [Go] No
Wait are plans possible here?
Also... i aint as picky about being a nomad anymore, after the disappointment i felt in another thread, this here is going great
[X] [Martial] Expand Wolfpacks
[X] [Martial] Raid
- [X] Fingers
Were warring them so lets go!
[X] [Art] Expand Traps
[X] [Art] Investigate Special Stone
[X] [Admin] Harvest Water-Grass
[X] [Action] Expand Wolfpacks
[X] [Action] Raid
- [X] Fingers
[X] [Go] No
Wait are plans possible here?
Also... i aint as picky about being a nomad anymore, after the disappointment i felt in another thread, this here is going great
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- Location
- Classified
[X] [Response] Feodor's Suggestion (Elite Raid)
[X] [Martial] Promote Folk Wrestling
[X] [Martial] Raid
- [X] Fingers
[X] [Art] Investigate Special Stone
[X] [Art] Expand Traps
[X] [Admin] Harvest Water-Grass
[X] [Action] Study Travel
[X] [Action] Promote Folk Wrestling
[X] [Martial] Promote Folk Wrestling
[X] [Martial] Raid
- [X] Fingers
[X] [Art] Investigate Special Stone
[X] [Art] Expand Traps
[X] [Admin] Harvest Water-Grass
[X] [Action] Study Travel
[X] [Action] Promote Folk Wrestling
BungieONI
Seven gremlins in a trench coat
- Location
- Lickwidget
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Oooooh.
Hmm here's a first pass at things.
[] [Response] Feodor's Suggestion (Elite Raid)
How did the People's Heroes work?
(Martial - Pick 2)
[] [Martial] Increase Hunting
[] [Martial] Raid
- [] Fingers
(Art - Pick 2)
[] [Art] Investigate Special Stone
[] [Art] Expand Traps
(Admin - Pick 1)
[] [Admin] Study Travel
Now is not the time for festivals. Not really.
[] [Action] Raid
- [] Fingers
[] [Action] Increase Hunting
So my idea here is to get hero synergy with Feodor's suggestion, and martial hero fighting. Investigating special stone for possible weapons and to do something other than a holy site which I don't think is appropriate. Expand Traps to help feed our River-Bend.
Admin for study travel later when we get going again, and/or to find a way to get to the Fingers faster.
And then for our actions, hunting for River-bend and ourselves and raiding the Fingers.
E: Ooops forgot the Go vote.
[] [Go] No
E2: After further thought I also like the wolfpacks so I added that in.
[] [Martial] Expand Wolfpacks
Hmm here's a first pass at things.
[] [Response] Feodor's Suggestion (Elite Raid)
How did the People's Heroes work?
(Martial - Pick 2)
[] [Martial] Increase Hunting
[] [Martial] Raid
- [] Fingers
(Art - Pick 2)
[] [Art] Investigate Special Stone
[] [Art] Expand Traps
(Admin - Pick 1)
[] [Admin] Study Travel
Now is not the time for festivals. Not really.
[] [Action] Raid
- [] Fingers
[] [Action] Increase Hunting
So my idea here is to get hero synergy with Feodor's suggestion, and martial hero fighting. Investigating special stone for possible weapons and to do something other than a holy site which I don't think is appropriate. Expand Traps to help feed our River-Bend.
Admin for study travel later when we get going again, and/or to find a way to get to the Fingers faster.
And then for our actions, hunting for River-bend and ourselves and raiding the Fingers.
E: Ooops forgot the Go vote.
[] [Go] No
E2: After further thought I also like the wolfpacks so I added that in.
[] [Martial] Expand Wolfpacks
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LucidProp
Pocky Eating MafiaDoka
[ ] [Response] Feodor's Suggestion (Elite Raid)
[ ] [Martial] Expand Wolfpacks
[ ] [Martial] Raid
- [ ] Fingers
[ ] [Art] Investigate Special Stone
[ ] [Art] Expand Traps
[ ] [Admin] Study Travel
[ ] [Action] Increase Hunting
[ ] [Action] Raid
- [ ] Fingers
[ ] [Go] No
Raiders don't stop Raiding unless you pay them, and I'd rather not do that since we can fight back and win.
It's time to go on a war-footing.
[ ] [Martial] Expand Wolfpacks
[ ] [Martial] Raid
- [ ] Fingers
[ ] [Art] Investigate Special Stone
[ ] [Art] Expand Traps
[ ] [Admin] Study Travel
[ ] [Action] Increase Hunting
[ ] [Action] Raid
- [ ] Fingers
[ ] [Go] No
Raiders don't stop Raiding unless you pay them, and I'd rather not do that since we can fight back and win.
It's time to go on a war-footing.
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BungieONI
Seven gremlins in a trench coat
- Location
- Lickwidget
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Do you want to raid the North Lake Tribe? They haven't done anything to us recently and leaving them in like that means we are splitting attention I would assume.
LucidProp
Pocky Eating MafiaDoka
Woops, a mistake on my part. Editted to Fingers.
I thought the North Lake Tribe was also the Fingers due to the formatting.
Eh, lets cut out the middleman and just ask... maybe the QM will actually answer unlike the other QMs
@Redium do you plan on having magic existing in the quest? Or are you focusing on the Civ and tech growing aspect?
I had a write up specially for this, but I think it's in bad taste being a bit too troll-like.
The way this quest develops is constantly in motion. I have the broad strokes planned out, but things can change. Like, you being able to talk to the River-Bend tribe at all was unplanned. I'd originally figured the People had come up from the south and thus were linguistically closer to the (currently undiscovered) tribes in the bay and to the land south of where you started. However, when I was rolling reactions when you met the River-Bend tribe, I literally got the exact same roll. I rolled 3d34 and not only was the total for you and them equal but the numbers each die rolled were the same! Thus, I quietly turned that into you being cousin tribes since the twin rolls was too perfect to waste.
I realize that's not an answer, however, it's the answer I have right now.
Yes, it drives me insane if you can't plan vote.
Historically, paying raiders off often worked and was usually far cheaper than truly fighting them. Plus Tymon's argument is a little bit more nuanced than simply paying the Fingersmen off. He's suggesting that you trade Blackstone and other materials to the Fingersmen so that they begin using it in their tools and weapons. It's a massive upgrade for them and if you're bringing it to them, you become valuable and thus off-limits for raiding. Stone Age trade is extremely interesting and was shockingly far-reaching. Since trading makes them stronger, why would the Fingersmen piss you off and throw that away?
Something to consider is that you're currently in the Neolithic Age. Tymon touched on it a little bit as well, but war is extremely hard in this time period. Sure, you have lots of hunters that are familiar with killing and can use bows and spears, but if they're going raiding, they're not looking for food. Violence is often a net calorie loss and makes things harder to survive. The only reason it's even possible for you is because you and the Fingersmen are both on a river and you have canoes. Without that, the raid could not have occurred.
All options are viable and can resolve the conflict with the Fingers. Heck, even doing nothing may resolve the problem! The Fingersmen are on the confluence of 5 major rivers, there are a lot of tribes that they could raid. It's very possible for them to simply decide that they lost too many people going after you so they'd be best served going elsewhere.
Ghostdevil
The Devil of Ghosts
- Location
- United States
Personally i would prefer there be no magic, I want to focus on the Tech and Society, not Superhumans... well at least until we maybe one day reach future tech and make NANOMACHINES SON. Ahem I Mean supertech.
Though.. I would not be adverse to Metal Gear style supernatural shenanigans
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No. If you look at the map on the first page, North Lake is the camp icon surrounded by red at the northern terminus of the great river. The Fingers aren't currently on the map, but they're east of the River-Bend tribe (the camp surrounded by yellow at the eastern edge of the great river). They're something like 2 months by canoe away from each other.
Ghostdevil
The Devil of Ghosts
- Location
- United States
O.O, hmmm maybe attacking them isn't very worth our time?
BungieONI
Seven gremlins in a trench coat
- Location
- Lickwidget
- Pronouns
- She/Her
[X] Plan Sorry Hannz You Have Everything
-[X] [Response] Feodor's Suggestion (Elite Raid)
-[X] [Martial] Expand Wolfpacks
-[X] [Martial] Raid
--[X] Fingers
-[X] [Art] Investigate Special Stone
-[X] [Art] Expand Traps
-[X] [Admin] Study Travel
-[X] [Action] Increase Hunting
-[X] [Action] Raid
--[X] Fingers
-[X] [Go] No
Sorry Hannz for copy pasting your vote into a plan, but for Redium's sanity I want to push for voting for plans and you have everything I want after some thought.
-[X] [Response] Feodor's Suggestion (Elite Raid)
-[X] [Martial] Expand Wolfpacks
-[X] [Martial] Raid
--[X] Fingers
-[X] [Art] Investigate Special Stone
-[X] [Art] Expand Traps
-[X] [Admin] Study Travel
-[X] [Action] Increase Hunting
-[X] [Action] Raid
--[X] Fingers
-[X] [Go] No
Sorry Hannz for copy pasting your vote into a plan, but for Redium's sanity I want to push for voting for plans and you have everything I want after some thought.
Ghostdevil
The Devil of Ghosts
- Location
- United States
[X] Plan FOR GREAT JUSTICE... QM SANITY!!!!
[X] [Response] Feodor's Suggestion (Elite Raid)
[X] [Martial] Expand Wolfpacks
[X] [Martial] Raid
- [X] Fingers
Were warring them so lets go!
[X] [Art] Expand Traps
[X] [Art] Investigate Special Stone
[X] [Admin] Harvest Water-Grass
[X] [Action] Expand Wolfpacks
[X] [Action] Raid
- [X] Fingers
[X] [Go] No
My vote now as a plan
[X] [Response] Feodor's Suggestion (Elite Raid)
[X] [Martial] Expand Wolfpacks
[X] [Martial] Raid
- [X] Fingers
Were warring them so lets go!
[X] [Art] Expand Traps
[X] [Art] Investigate Special Stone
[X] [Admin] Harvest Water-Grass
[X] [Action] Expand Wolfpacks
[X] [Action] Raid
- [X] Fingers
[X] [Go] No
My vote now as a plan