From Stone to the Stars
- Thread starter Redium
- Start date
- Original Alt. History
Lime powder, pitch tar.
Let's have a look:
[ ] [Lake] Maintain the settlement, but mix in a noticeable number of the People, primarily shaman and warriors. (++ Luxuries, ++ Crafts, + Materials, - Martial, - Magic)
This option has the advantage that it helps solve our moderate deficits in Luxuries and Materials, but we lose martial (not so much an issue, even if we do decide to continue the war) and magic (but that should put us at small deficit at worst). It also increases the amount of infrastructure we need to build, so there's that
[ ] [Lake] Maintain the settlement, but disperse all of Arrow Lake's population among the wider People. (+ Luxuries, + Crafts)
As above, except it doesn't help solve our materials problem, so in my opinion it is strictly worse than the first option
[ ] [Lake] Integrate Arrow Lake into the People; have them address the lack of luxuries. (+ Luxuries, + Staples)
I don't like this option - I don't see any reason why we would take it over option four
[ ] [Lake] Integrate Arrow Lake into the People; have them address the lack of Materials. (+ Materials, + Craftworks)
This option helps our materials deficit, and doesn't require us to build additional infrastructure (although I'm still leaning towards option one)
For the [North] options, I don't think we should take any of the -Materials options, and we definitely shouldn't take them if we don't take a +Materials option for [Lake].
For [War], while not pressing on with the war does leave South Reach as a threat, I don't think we can effectively attack them if they call in Allies.
My current leaning is therefore:
[] [Lake] Maintain the settlement, but mix in a noticeable number of the People, primarily shaman and warriors. (++ Luxuries, ++ Crafts, + Materials, - Martial, - Magic)
[] [North] Merge into Arrow Lake's settlement. (+ Staples, + Martial, + Luxuries)
[] [War] No.
[ ] [Lake] Maintain the settlement, but mix in a noticeable number of the People, primarily shaman and warriors. (++ Luxuries, ++ Crafts, + Materials, - Martial, - Magic)
This option has the advantage that it helps solve our moderate deficits in Luxuries and Materials, but we lose martial (not so much an issue, even if we do decide to continue the war) and magic (but that should put us at small deficit at worst). It also increases the amount of infrastructure we need to build, so there's that
[ ] [Lake] Maintain the settlement, but disperse all of Arrow Lake's population among the wider People. (+ Luxuries, + Crafts)
As above, except it doesn't help solve our materials problem, so in my opinion it is strictly worse than the first option
[ ] [Lake] Integrate Arrow Lake into the People; have them address the lack of luxuries. (+ Luxuries, + Staples)
I don't like this option - I don't see any reason why we would take it over option four
[ ] [Lake] Integrate Arrow Lake into the People; have them address the lack of Materials. (+ Materials, + Craftworks)
This option helps our materials deficit, and doesn't require us to build additional infrastructure (although I'm still leaning towards option one)
For the [North] options, I don't think we should take any of the -Materials options, and we definitely shouldn't take them if we don't take a +Materials option for [Lake].
For [War], while not pressing on with the war does leave South Reach as a threat, I don't think we can effectively attack them if they call in Allies.
My current leaning is therefore:
[] [Lake] Maintain the settlement, but mix in a noticeable number of the People, primarily shaman and warriors. (++ Luxuries, ++ Crafts, + Materials, - Martial, - Magic)
[] [North] Merge into Arrow Lake's settlement. (+ Staples, + Martial, + Luxuries)
[] [War] No.
maximillian
Civilised Sheep
- Location
- Ranch
It was mentioned that moving the north landers this far south greatly reduces the tech Benifit of integration since the land isn't suited to herds at all.
I prefer this to all of the other new settlement options, the ++Luxuries is from ivory that can only be collected this far north and this camp comes with 3 actions worth of trails.
It is also the area they know well and have been herding in for a long time.
This means i want +materials for the lake option to pay for the camp:
[ ] [Lake] Maintain the settlement, but mix in a noticeable number of the People, primarily shaman and warriors. (++ Luxuries, ++ Crafts, + Materials, - Martial, - Magic)
The survivors include a lot of debtors as those have not joined the fight so mixing in more of our own will allow us control over there settlement, pick up any tech and buildings they have and the ++craft will allow us to focus on a hill for the fingers followed by temples for all settlements.
[] [War] No.
We could beat them when they had two settlements with only one they are weaker.
- Location
- USA
I thinks it's safe to say that the result of us choosing to complete the Temple this turn, not sure if it was because we did it in one turn, is what is why we still have such major deficits.
From the changes I can see. Our tiny craftsman surplus is now at equilibrium, meaning that even with focused production of them we've went down. Our tiny luxuries deficit has ballooned into a moderate one, again likely because of the Temple, which is a problem. Our materials deficit has remained the same even with our building of the kilns, meaning we likely will need to keep on investing in new trails, Clay pits, and kilns. While our staples on the other hand I think grew from a tiny surplus to a small one, a good boon as it seems like some of our soft caps seem to have been pushed up.
We still have a good amount of work to do in this department.
The only change I notice, or at least the lack of change, is that our stability and legitimacy have remained the same indicating to me that the Fingers faction likely was placated by the New Temple we just built for them. Otherwise we've likely gained 2 prestige from our thrashing of Arrow Lake.
Uh oh...me thinks we've exceeded our religious authority cap. The last time we exceeded a cap, with specialization during the adult trials, we needed extensive reforms to fix it. I have no idea what we're going to do here.
This is new. @Redium When did we get this?
Looks like our technology has improved seeing as we now have large scale stone cutting.
This at least looks good. Here is the previous sheet by comparison:
So, in terms of changes, and boy do I hate math:
We've seemed to have gained 47 points in abstract tally passively, likely from Luule's contributions.
We've gained 70 points on Arboriculture, which puts us in a conundrum as the example we've received of teching too far ahead uses it and the Three Sisters as the exact example. We're close to completing it, however the same could be said for the Three Sisters, which gained 62 points passively. Furthermore as was mentioned before this decision may push us away from brick buildings and back to wooden due to our still persisting materials shortage, something we need to work on, making this a delicate balancing act.
Caribou Taming and Herding are both also completed, likely due to or choice regarding integrating the Northlands. Interestingly enough, we've gained and gotten a lot of work done, by which I mean the Northlands probably did all the work on, caribou domestication, which is rather close to finishing.
The thing I am most excited about, though, is the fact that by absorbing the Northlands, we are so close to getting mammoth taming, something that we know is on a possible time limit, so I'm hoping we can get that passively before it's locked away forever. This really is a lot of tech we've gained as 285 points is nothing to sneeze at.
In terms of our other tech gains that are unrelated to absorbing the North, we gained 54 points passively, though it's likely related to the kilns, in copper smelting, which is something we should be gunning for.
Gods and deities is also something we are close to the brink of developing, which is a good thing as I am pretty sure the timing will hopefully help with our religious authority cap issue.
Raven taming and elementalism don't seem to have passively advanced much, which is to be expected due to how esoteric they seem to be in relation to our holy orders.
Stonecutting has been unlocked which likely heralds new things for us, like possibly unlocking stone quarries as a new building option and materials supply we can draw upon, alongside a new related tech branch. Both of which seem promising.
Oh we also advanced nowhere in terms of the wheel. But that's not too surprising.
All in all, tech wise we gained a lot this turn.
Lots of changes here we should take note of.
Firstly, as was before, we remain at the top of the pack. Nothing much has changed regarding this aside from the fact that our lead has shrunk back into single digits of prestige again.
The most pressing change I've noticed here is the meteoric rise of the Tribe of the West/Bitter Water Tribe. Taking a look at the last leaderboard we had from the turn before we can see the stark changes that have happened in terms of positioning:
As we can see from the above in the timeframe of one turn the Tribe of the West have gained a whopping 7 prestige somehow. The mystery we will likely need to investigate is how they accomplished this feat as the descriptions of their overall statuses have not changed within this time at all. Generally from what we know from prestige, it can be gained in a number of ways. Some of the most consistent are gaining prestige from military victories over other tribes/civilizations where there is a sort of exchange of prestige, and the other being completing impressive achievements such as megaprojects.
Taking a look at the leaderboard changes we can rule out military victories as a source of their prestige change from what we can read. Of the known tribes that they border and could most likely have a conflict with, none of them have had a commensurate decrease in prestige that would indicate having taken military losses against them. The Cracktooth, the enemy that we knew they last warred against actually gained 3 prestige last turn, while at the same time the status of their military changed from that of a bloodied, bloodthirsty militia, to simply a bloodthirsty one, likely indicating their military recovered. The Bond Breakers, the other tribe who borders them, also gained 1 prestige with no overall status changes. Lakeland has gained a whopping 6 prestige, while their other statuses have remained the same. Even the distant Island Makers gained a point of prestige with their military seeming to have not been affected heavily overall. All of this makes me believe that the change in the Tribe of the West is not due to large number of victories in a military campaign, although that possibility exists as there may be tribes that we don't know of who border them on their peripheries, but instead is due to a series of internal changes within them.
Now, what could these internal changes be? The answer I believe lies in their economy. From what we've known since we've met the Tribe of the West, one of the things that have been emphasized regarding them have been their advancements in terms of agriculture, something which they've always been ahead of them with. Taking a look at how consistent they've been economically in their status of having an unprecedented boom in it, as well as the fact that they are so known for being so numerous, makes me believe that they've probably hit an economic sweetspot with their control in agriculture allowing them to fuel an expansion of some kind with lots of likely internal changes. Considering the fact that even though we've never invested in as heavy agriculture as some of those south of us, and yet we're so awfully close to getting the Three Sisters as a technology, one that is known to be under the Life category, something they are said to specialize in for their magic, all of this leads me to believe that the Tribe of the West has had somewhat of a paradigm shift in terms of their agriculture which is fueling their rise to the south of us.
Now, what does this mean for us? It means we potentially face a very powerful and numerous foe rising from the South. Considering how the Tribe of the West and the Bitter-Water Tribe have been alluded to be one and the same, that presents a problem for us as we've recently been to war with each other. The problem we are facing here, and the one we are likely going to face, is an expansionist Tribe of the West who will try to gain hegemony over the agriculturally productive areas held by other tribes. This is not a surprise, as the QM indicated that this would be something that was going to happen one way or the other, with a specific phrase I remember being:
While I could be readings thing wrong, the ascension of the Tribe of the West here seems to be that agricultural revolution we've been waiting to happen. As was said earlier, while they could simply just deforest and make more farms on their own, the southern tribes have a penchant for simply going to war and seizing the already developed farmlands of other tribes. The issue for us is that we will likely need to intervene to make sure this doesn't happen, and our lack of news regarding any developments not related to us is not helping. Because if the Tribe of the West disrupts the equilibrium that currently exists on the peninsula abutting Rahu Bay they very likely could seize hegemony over the reason and steamroll us. So far most of our wars have been won by a few key factors, us having martial heroes to lead us and gain tactical victories, us having more professional warriors against enemy militia, or us having more warriors to fight in battles of attrition. In terms of the Tribe of the West, we are lucky that right now we do have a martial hero in the form of Jeree, though that may not last when a potential future conflict erupts, making this factor not guaranteed. Similarly our advantage of having warriors facing militia is also not secured as the Tribe of the West has professional warriors as well. Finally, when it comes to numbers they have us beat. Sure, while we obviously can and will fight against them if they challenge us, our victory against them is very much in doubt, as even with our tough defenses, even those can be circumvented as we have seen with Arrow Lake, where the enemy simply sieges us to death.
All in all, we likely will need to keep an eye out on the situation down south as while our current problems are troubling, the changes we've seen in the leaderboard but have not actually heard about are troubling. To rectify this in the long run we probably should take a trade action every once in awhile to hear rumors of other happenings around us. Furthermore, we likely will need to make more allies among some of the few tribes we call friends who could potentially assist us in this situation, those being the Peace Builders and Island Makers. All in all, we should be keeping an eye out on the situation around us, as ignorance is not bliss for us.
Anywho, onto the update itself.
As the author of the winning plan, I can say that I am happy with the results of this plan, as it seems to have gone according to what I predicted. While our deficit situations could've gone better, I think we can afford to now focus on them more now that the Temple has been built at The Fingers, as was expected with the empowerment. At least now we know how to get certain options with that option, as I figured at the time the Frontier Leader would go for the new trails option as that would assist them the most.
In any case in terms of a prospective plan for the next turn I think we might want to hold off on building the Hill, as no matter what option we choose for the new settlement location we are unlikely to lock it in any time soon, unlike the the Temple. Plus, as we've seen with our current statuses, projects such as that take a heavy toll on our resources.
I'm curious here. We know how powerful these kilns can be for our resources and productions. However, when it comes to making charcoal I think we might eventually run into the issue of the kilns themselves being the limiting factor in how much charcoal we produce as once we deal with our wood and materials deficits through the construction of trails and encouraging arborists, it won't be the amount of wood being supplied but instead the kilns that will prevent us from producing more charcoal, which seems to be in demand at the moment.
She's obviously not spiritually attuned, which is somewhat of a departure I'm guessing as most of our past leaders have been members of one Holy Order or the next. Starting from Kaspar who was an Ember Eyes, Aeva who was the same, and Priit who was a member of the Fangs, Luule is a departure from this, though with Jeree being a member of the Horned Riders this does allow some continuity regarding this narrative wise.
@Redium Quick question, which settlement does Luule represent?
Some things never changed I see, though we seem reminiscent of dwarfs in my mind.
Wow, our Temples certainly seem impressive. @Redium Out of curiosity, what are our other Temples like?
This one to me is interesting as this calls back to our first shrine which we erected at the Fingers long ago when we captured, with a similar focus on the dichotomy of fire and ice.
The Frost-Scarred are certainly interesting. How cold are their cellars I wonder? Is it cold enough that we could refrigerate food by storing it down there?
Luule certainly seems afraid of the Frost-Scarred, which is not too surprising considering they look like zombies.
The Frost-Scarred's philosophy certainly seems interesting, however, I am not entirely sure I get the gist of it. As the first sentence seems to suggest a philosophy similar to asceticism, reminding me of Buddhism in a fashion. However, the latter sentence with it's focus on enjoying sensations and pleasures seems to remind me more of Epicureanism. I'm interested to learn the philosophy of our other holy orders and to see if we are able to amalgamate them together to form an actual coherent and related pantheon.
I'm rather glad we had another admin hero, as while her work may seem unimportant, in truth it is very important as it will likely help us transition into a more efficient economic model and likely help us gain writing.
Two things.
Does anyone else think Jeree and Luule are sort of flirting with each other? They seem to have a very interesting relationship. Anyway, I ship them together, after all, from what we've seen heroes beget heroes.
The second thing is that it seems like Jeree, and the Horned Riders as a whole, have more to them than we thought. The description of his masterful disguise and camouflage makes me think that as a martial hero Jeree is of a different breed compared to that of Kaspar and Priit, who were physically powerful and tactically adept. I still Jeree is likely just as adept in tactics and strategy as either, but due to small size being necessary to ride caribou it would not surprise me if his focus was more on say maneuver and deception than skill in personal combat.
The description of the magic of the Horned Riders being riding and wearing the skin of a beast later also has me believe they will serve as more than just being our cavalry, as they likely would make great scouts in addition to our powerful skirmishers in the Fangs.
This is a lot to take in.
Obviously we've won the war and with seemingly little cost to us in terms of warriors, forcing a surrender through winning the final battle rather decisively.
Secondly, it seems like spiritual matters will be high on our agenda after this. I'm not sure if the increase in religious authority was solely due to this display by the Ember Eyes, or what roll caused it, by I am hazarding a guess it is related to our locking in of four temples. Right @Redium
Also, on a side not, what does the six-pointed star represent for the Star Shaman?
I wonder, though, if Jeree's incompatibility was due to his short physical stature making him more susceptible to the fumes inside of the cave compared to others.
When it comes to the display of the Ember Eyes Elder with what seems to be a fireball, I have no clue. They would've likely mentioned something if this was as mundane as him setting an arrow on fire, but arrows aren't generally described as orbs, nor do they burst against shields. So either this is some form of esoteric technology or magic is real here.
Either way, with the war won, we seem to have gained a boon in newly conquered peoples, but with more trouble ahead.
@Redium What did we roll to receive this? Was this for a good battle roll? Or was this for something else?
I'm not the most adept, but considering how when we've gone over cap before, we're going to need reforms to fix this. Considering that the Ember Eyes are our oldest and most prestigious Holy Order now that Priit is dead, I can forsee them using their newfound authority to potentially clash against us. With us just on the cusp of getting gods and deities researched, I wonder if we might not be facing a religious conflict in the future. I hope not as the Holy Orders are our backbone in terms of power.
Anyone else have any ideas on how to deal with this?
Considering that this is our martial hero speaking to us, advising us on what to do on a martial issue, I say we heed his advice.
More interestingly, it seems like we've gained newfound knowledge regarding a new tribe. Considering their name I take it that the Black Scars are a more martial tribe. Thankfully though we should have the distance enough to leave them at bay for now.
In regards to the vote, here are my thoughts.
While it does seem enticing, looking up at the pluses above, in maintaining the Arrow Lake settlement, strategically I think it's a bad move. In terms of our overall big picture, settling Arrow Lake will extend us widely and complicate our current strategy. Sure, Arrow Lake may have walls but those have already been locked in for any settlement we build. Taking Arrow Lake, either with settling the Northlands here or without, will make it so that we won't lock in the Temple for any newly built settlements afterwards. Meaning our tall strategy will be thrown out. Considering how much building the Temple in the Fingers strained us previously in terms of resources, I don't think we can easily overlook something like this.
Furthermore, looking at things through the view of infrastructure, Arrow Lake is not ideal. While it is somewhat connected to the Great River via a tributary river, it does not have any connection to the Fire Relay, while it's strategic positioning will likely leave us overstretched. Finally, as the QM mentioned in an answer earlier, if we invest in Arrow Lake with the Northlands too, we won't gain as many technologies with them there due to caribou not ranging that far, which when you look at the tech tree is not a good thing as we are close to domesticating them.
While we may have beaten Arrow Lake right now, there is nothing preventing them from holding a grudge against us and attacking us in the future, especially with the potential of the Black Scars as co-aggressors. The Arrow Lake settlement is on the far end of our territories, and by taking it we will leave ourselves thinly stretched at a time when we are currently trying to consolidate.
Choosing the other two options and razing the settlement now is more appealing to me for a number of reasons. Firstly, by integrating the remnants into the rest of the people we can likely address some of the current issues aggravating us right now, with the materials shortage taking precedent. Secondly, by not taking that settlement we make it much harder for South Reach or anyone else to attack us again in the future due to the logistical strain and the distances involve. If we likely will have trouble prosecuting the war southwards, then the same will likely be true if our closest settlement to them is the Fingers. Finally, this will fit in much better with us in regards to our current overall strategy as while our building tall strategy has had bumps and issues, we can still keep on the path we are on right now by taking the cautious choice.
That is why my choice for this is the fourth one.
In terms of the Northlands merger, I think there is only one real option. But in order to be comprehensive I'll discuss each choice.
River Bend is suboptimal as it's detriments outweighs its benefits. While getting a lot more staples and luxuries is not a bad thing. I don't think we can afford to go any further in the red regarding our current materials deficit or compound that by taking ourselves into a craftsman deficit.
Similarly Wide River is the same as the above but worse as it could possibly interfere with our trade with the Pearl Divers who we hope to integrate eventually and who we rely on for salt.
Taking them into Arrow Lake may seem like a good idea as it seems to have the most pluses without minuses, but while it may benefit us in the short term, in the long term it will hurt us more. I don't think focusing the majority of the Horned Riders into a settlement where their principle mount, the caribou, can't even go or be found is a good idea. It will likely make them ineffectually as a Holy Order and as the QM said limit the techs we gain. Not worth it.
Their summer camp, while it will likely allow us to get staples and more luxuries, is a detriment is other ways. Firstly it is a huge distance away from our core, necessitating more infrastructure to connect it with us. Compounding that it has a lack of materials making any construction likely harder as well.
Those two combined with the example of the Fingers make me think that it has a high chance to eventually split away from us.
Diapering them among the rest of the people is an interesting idea as it will likely keep our tall strategy while still giving us benefits in terms of martial and staples, albeit it might not allow us to integrate the horned riders.
@Redium Seeing our current resources right now, how long will any settlement we new build take to construct?
Finally as to my preferred option I think the cave of the stars finally becoming a settlement is the best choice. Firstly it is compatible with our tall strategy, in that it already has a temple for which we can keep that locked in for all of our settlements. Secondly in terms of benefits and detriments it has the best set in that it will still give us staples and luxuries but with no cost to materials or in technologies like the rest have.
In addition to all of that, the cave of the Stars being turned into a settlement will also allow us to finally bridge the vulnerable gap we've always had between Both Crystal Lake and the Fingers. With the Fire Relay already going through there our infrastructure needs will also not be as high there as well. Defensively it will help us solidify our core settlements and protect one of our key natural wonders on the cave. Politically it will be well set as the Star Shaman reside there, likely giving it some influence.
Altogether in combination with its location allowing the northlanders to still access their hunting grounds, if we need to put them somewhere I vote here.
As I said before I'm voting no, as while this may kick the can down the road, if our martial hero is vetoing this, I'm inclined to follow his advice.
Edit: Here is my prospective vote:
[ ] [Lake] Integrate Arrow Lake into the People; have them address the lack of Materials. (+ Materials, + Craftworks)
[ ] [North] Upgrade the Cave of Stars into a full fledged settlement. (+ Staples, + Luxuries)
[ ] [War] No.
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Walker Of Chaos
Best/Worst Dynasty
- Location
- Sweden
Currently torn on the settlement issue. The Cave of the Stars is probably the "best" option but I'm also heavily tempted to go for River Bend. While a settlement there wouldn't be that valuable on its own it is critical to taking control of the flood plains.
I fear that if we don't take steps to control those areas soon either the Tribe of the West, the Island Makers or some other faction will grab them, putting our civilization in great danger. Of course if we do go for it now it will not only kill our infrastructure but also excaberate our shortages.
- Pronouns
- He/Him
If we are going to give the northlands a settlement as opposed to just merging them (which is what I'll be voting for) then there's yet another reason to do it at the cave of stars; religious authority. Consider; a new temple generates 1.25 authority right now. If we make 2 more settlements in the near future (this one and the one to cover the mountain clans) then our authority will already be 7.5. If we take our aristocracy's 100% tolerance increase as an example reform, then that leaves us .5 from overcapping religious authority again.
Separately, the fact that it's the ember eyes leading the charge to higher religious authority is significant. Why? Because the ember eyes are the ones who will discover metal. They are also probably the ones who will one day control bronze production. If they discover copper while in this exalted state they currently hold, we probably won't be able to wholly wrest control of it from them to allow civilian craftsmen, and we may have to resign ourselves to a theocratic bronze age. If that does happen, I think we should try and grab the horn riders and at least 1 more holy order to upgrade our "Collection Moste Holy (Three) " legacy to the (five) version discussed here:
Separately, the fact that it's the ember eyes leading the charge to higher religious authority is significant. Why? Because the ember eyes are the ones who will discover metal. They are also probably the ones who will one day control bronze production. If they discover copper while in this exalted state they currently hold, we probably won't be able to wholly wrest control of it from them to allow civilian craftsmen, and we may have to resign ourselves to a theocratic bronze age. If that does happen, I think we should try and grab the horn riders and at least 1 more holy order to upgrade our "Collection Moste Holy (Three) " legacy to the (five) version discussed here:
before the bronze age ends. That way, if the theocracy is deposed by destructive means, there's a lower chance of losing our lovely orders. Nothing immediately relevant, just speculation for the future.
maximillian
Civilised Sheep
- Location
- Ranch
Bear in mind however, that bringing an established order like the horned riders into the cave would create a clash with the pre existing traditions and structures in the cave of stars.
At best it would force us to create a second temple at the sight to serve as a hq to the riders, at worst it'll start a violent conflict at the absolute worst it'll merge the riders into the star shaman, losing us thier benifits.
The cave of stars is developing into its own entity, let it becone a holy order in its own right. That way we get its benifits as well as those of the riders in thier northern ranges, and avoid instability.
Jeree is actually a Mysticism Hero, the first one you've obtained. He was spiritually aware enough to know that the Cave of Stars was going to devour him since he was incompatible with its magic. He still managed to survive it, however, which is more than many can say. He mastered the mysteries of the Horned Riders and is one of the last living masters of the Northland's magic.
4 Is your RA cap. You're not over yet, so you'll spawn no negative events, but there's going to be evident strain in the narrative.
You've had it for a while. It was the result of you deciding to encourage young men to move to separate warrior clans back when Aeva was alive.
Eventually, once your demand for charcoal gets high enough, you'll acquire a Status which prompts you to create more Charcoal Kilns or else lose their benefits. You can build additional kilns ahead of time, but there isn't much benefit to it unless you're anticipating a spike in demand.
The Fingers.
I think I've described them somewhere else.
Crystal Lake's temple is set on a small island in the middle of the lake. Giant boulders of quartz have been raised up onto it. Massive arches are evident in the walls that correspond to several different important stars and their corresponding equinoxes.
Temple of Stars has been described extensively.
The Temple of Fangs at Hill Guard is more like an enormous kennel, but made out of granite. It's mostly open space, but it's a large, sprawling nature compound.
RA was boosted purely by the temple.
Six pointed star is simply their symbol. It will mean more later once you develop more Spiritual techs.
This development was planned for a while and you just happened to meet the trigger conditions now. Saying more is going to spoil the surprise.
Arrow Lake should probably have ++++ Luxuries. They have active lapis luzili mines there which produce an immense amount of luxuries. They're more productive in their one settlement than you are in the Fingers and Hill Guard combined. They're equivalent to Crystal Lake +50%.
Since Northlands are building it for you, it goes online automatically. Additional infrastructure will be built as Materials allow.
Vote is Open!
What should be done with the People of Arrow Lake? (If their settlement is not maintained, it will be destroyed for defensive reasons.)
[ ] [Lake] Maintain the settlement, but mix in a noticeable number of the People, primarily shaman and warriors. (++++ Luxuries, ++ Crafts, + Materials, - Martial, - Magic)
[ ] [Lake] Maintain the settlement, but disperse all of Arrow Lake's population among the wider People. (+ Luxuries, + Crafts)
[ ] [Lake] Integrate Arrow Lake into the People; have them address the lack of luxuries. (+ Luxuries, + Staples)
[ ] [Lake] Integrate Arrow Lake into the People; have them address the lack of Materials. (+ Materials, + Craftworks)
Where should the Northlands merge with the People?
[ ] [North] Found their own settlement at River-Bend, west of the Fingers. (++ Staples, + Luxuries, - Crafts, - Materials)
[ ] [North] Found their own settlement at Wide River, east of the Fingers. (++ Staples, + Luxuries, - Crafts, - Materials, interfere with Pearl Diver trade?)
[ ] [North] Merge into Arrow Lake's settlement. (+ Staples, + Martial, + Luxuries)
[ ] [North] Upgrade the Cave of Stars into a full fledged settlement. (+ Staples, + Luxuries)
[ ] [North] Maintain their current summer camp as a year-round settlement. (+ Staples, ++ Luxuries, - Materials)
[ ] [North] Disperse among all of the People's settlements. (+ Martial, + Staples)
Continue to press the war with the remains of Arrow Lake (South Reach)?
[ ] [War] Yes.
[ ] [War] No.
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Wait, so our RA being at 4 is correct? What happened to the 1.25 multiplier? Did it get erased by the system changes?
Anyways, this does mean I am more okay with river-bend and the summer camp as options, because if we don't need to be as scared of temples for RA purposes, then building a temple for the horn riders ASAP makes quite a bit of sense.
Anyways, this does mean I am more okay with river-bend and the summer camp as options, because if we don't need to be as scared of temples for RA purposes, then building a temple for the horn riders ASAP makes quite a bit of sense.
- Location
- USA
So Jeree is not a traditional martial hero then, it's just that since the Horned Riders are a martial Holy Order, and he is a Mysticism Hero of their magic that means he is martially powerful because of that but that martial is not his specialty correct?
Also, are the Horned Riders at threat of going extinct or is their something we can do to keep them alive within us?
I'm assuming we will get the Horned Riders as a Holy Order right, no matter which option is chosen?
Edit: If that is the case, do we need to build a separate Temple for them later, assuming they settle at the Cave of the Stars Temple, which has it's own Shaman?
As with similar narrative strain events, are we going to be presented with options to address it or will we have other general actions we can take to ease it?
So not right now but later? Got it.
So are the Stars important to the Ember Eyes as well? I didn't know that, I thought that was mostly the Star Shamans purview.
Does that mean we will get to define the meaning of it like we did similarly with the door to the cave of the Stars?
So quick question. Considering how the normal option for founding a settlement is locked out. Are there any penalties for founding two new settlements at the same time? Assuming we don't take the Northlands into Arrow Lake.
Also if we integrate the Arrow Lake captives, are they debtors meaning we can use them as free labor, or do they start as full tribesmen?
Which infrastructure specifically are you referring to?
Edit: For example say we don't settle the Northlands at the Cave of the Stars, will a Temple have to be constructed for them as they aren't locked in yet while things like walls, shrines, and sugar shacks be constructed?
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[X] [Lake] Maintain the settlement, but mix in a noticeable number of the People, primarily shaman and warriors. (++++ Luxuries, ++ Crafts, + Materials, - Martial, - Magic)
[X] [North] Maintain their current summer camp as a year-round settlement. (+ Staples, ++ Luxuries, - Materials)
[X] [North] Upgrade the Cave of Stars into a full fledged settlement. (+ Staples, + Luxuries)
[X] [War] No.
[X] [North] Maintain their current summer camp as a year-round settlement. (+ Staples, ++ Luxuries, - Materials)
[X] [North] Upgrade the Cave of Stars into a full fledged settlement. (+ Staples, + Luxuries)
[X] [War] No.
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maximillian
Civilised Sheep
- Location
- Ranch
[X] [North] Upgrade the Cave of Stars into a full fledged settlement. (+ Staples, + Luxuries)
[X] [War] No.
We really should take the settlement despite hurting our tall strategy, because luxuries, crafts and materials are all things we need, while martial and mysticism are the only cost, and we have a small surplus of both, plus we just got a hero inclined to both.
The only thing i worry about is adopting any more violent traits from arrow lake.
In the case odlf the northlands settlement, i agree with @Japanime . It's the best compromise. Plus a northlander mystic hero at the cave of stars might have some wacky or powerful outcomes that i want to see.
As to war. We need to fix some of our internal problems first.
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Professor Vesca
Good News Everyone!
[X] [Lake] Integrate Arrow Lake into the People; have them address the lack of Materials. (+ Materials, + Craftworks)
[X] [North] Upgrade the Cave of Stars into a full fledged settlement. (+ Staples, + Luxuries)
[X] [War] No.
@Redium With the option to integrate Arrow Lake, does that mean that we take their settlement?
[X] [North] Upgrade the Cave of Stars into a full fledged settlement. (+ Staples, + Luxuries)
[X] [War] No.
@Redium With the option to integrate Arrow Lake, does that mean that we take their settlement?
[X] [Lake] Maintain the settlement, but mix in a noticeable number of the People, primarily shaman and warriors. (++++ Luxuries, ++ Crafts, + Materials, - Martial, - Magic)
[X] [North] Upgrade the Cave of Stars into a full fledged settlement. (+ Staples, + Luxuries)
[X] [War] No.
[X] [North] Upgrade the Cave of Stars into a full fledged settlement. (+ Staples, + Luxuries)
[X] [War] No.
[X] [Lake] Integrate Arrow Lake into the People; have them address the lack of Materials. (+ Materials, + Craftworks)
[X] [North] Disperse among all of the People's settlements. (+ Martial, + Staples)
[X] [North] Upgrade the Cave of Stars into a full fledged settlement. (+ Staples, + Luxuries)
[X] [War] No.
Busy today but two big things:
-If we maintain the Arrow Lake settlement we'll redline RA, because in a generation they're going to demand their own temple.
-If we assign the Northlands to anything except the Cave of Stars or Absorption, we'll redline RA because they're going to demand their own temple too
[X] [North] Disperse among all of the People's settlements. (+ Martial, + Staples)
[X] [North] Upgrade the Cave of Stars into a full fledged settlement. (+ Staples, + Luxuries)
[X] [War] No.
Busy today but two big things:
-If we maintain the Arrow Lake settlement we'll redline RA, because in a generation they're going to demand their own temple.
-If we assign the Northlands to anything except the Cave of Stars or Absorption, we'll redline RA because they're going to demand their own temple too
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[X] [Lake] Integrate Arrow Lake into the People; have them address the lack of Materials. (+ Materials, + Craftworks)
[X] [North] Upgrade the Cave of Stars into a full fledged settlement. (+ Staples, + Luxuries)
[X] [War] No.
[X] [North] Upgrade the Cave of Stars into a full fledged settlement. (+ Staples, + Luxuries)
[X] [War] No.
- Location
- Anchorage, Alaska
[X] [Lake] Integrate Arrow Lake into the People; have them address the lack of Materials. (+ Materials, + Craftworks)
[X] [North] Upgrade the Cave of Stars into a full fledged settlement. (+ Staples, + Luxuries)
[X] [War] No.
[X] [North] Upgrade the Cave of Stars into a full fledged settlement. (+ Staples, + Luxuries)
[X] [War] No.
- Location
- USA
@Redium
Just a couple more questions.
So, in the effects section it mentions adventurers. What kind of adventurers are we talking about here?
Are we talking about the CK2 style adventurers like what I am assuming this is? A landless character who is going to form a group to raid, plunder, and conquer?
Or are we talking about the more fanciful type?
Another question. Is this trait still in effect? How does it work now that we are an aristocracy where decisions seem to be made not by the Big Man or Headman in this case, but instead by the Pareem?
Sounds ominous. Our magical and mystical values haven't changed much, while the only thing that really did is our RA value due to the new temple. I'm kind of wondering how this is going to synch with getting gods and deities, as it seems like we're awfully close to unlocking a religious pantheon.
Just a couple more questions.
So, in the effects section it mentions adventurers. What kind of adventurers are we talking about here?
Are we talking about the CK2 style adventurers like what I am assuming this is? A landless character who is going to form a group to raid, plunder, and conquer?
Or are we talking about the more fanciful type?
Another question. Is this trait still in effect? How does it work now that we are an aristocracy where decisions seem to be made not by the Big Man or Headman in this case, but instead by the Pareem?
Sounds ominous. Our magical and mystical values haven't changed much, while the only thing that really did is our RA value due to the new temple. I'm kind of wondering how this is going to synch with getting gods and deities, as it seems like we're awfully close to unlocking a religious pantheon.
