- Location
- Earth
[X] Talk to her privately.
-[X] Ask what's wrong.
-[X] Ask why she hates Berserker.
-[X] Ask what's wrong.
-[X] Ask why she hates Berserker.
Flandre's Quest (Touhou) World - (Madness Quest)
- Thread starter Entropy Judge
- Start date
Entropy Judge
Recurring Bouts of Misanthropy
Votes are not locked.
[X] Talk to her privately.
- [X] Ask what's wrong.
- [X] Ask why she hates Berserker.
7
[X] Talk to her privately.
- [X] Ask what's wrong.
- [X] Ask why she hates Berserker.
7
Entropy Judge
Recurring Bouts of Misanthropy
Hurrah double-post! So I was checking something while writing the next update, and I noticed something. It is actually in the anime, so I could have brought it up when it was more relevant, but ... eh, whatever. Anyway:
Anyone care to take a guess, or point me toward a discussion on the subject?
So ... how to reconcile that with what we know about Berserker and God Hand? I mean, there's a couple go-to options - the Einzberns keep a bunch of monsters with greater-than-B-rank attacks in their back yard, or God Hand wasn't 'active' at that point - but they're kind of flimsy excuses, I think. The Einzberns are supposed to be pretty terrible at fighting, so them keeping a menagerie of Servant-killing beasts in their forest is unlikely, and God Hand is supposed to be Berserker's body, and since he's visually the same as he is later, there's no reason to suspect it isn't active. Is it just an inconsistency in the story?Interlude 13-2 said:
Anyone care to take a guess, or point me toward a discussion on the subject?
SolipsistSerpent
Endlessly Devouring
Maybe Servant's abilities don't function to full effect outside of Fuyuki? I know I remember something about Ilya having a hard time supporting him outside it.
He could have been suffering several 'rank downs'.
He could have been suffering several 'rank downs'.
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@Entropy Judge, since it a long time since they were talk about, how is Lutecia, Agito and Zest currently? What are they currently doing? And what is Vita fate? And it is possible for Flan to contact them while in Fuyuki and invite them to join her on her trip to the next world?
HymnOfRagnarok
Let's Rock
Huh, never noticed that.
Hmm. Well...argue that when Berserker is summoned, he has no lives and no God Hand protection, and Ilya had to build him up from nothing? Which she got away with, because the Einzberns summon their Servants first and absurdly early. And meaning Ilya had to endure spending vast amounts of mana to empower her own Servant to his full strength.
Unless Ilya summoned Berserker without Greater Grail assistance. I can't remember. I remember every move caused Ilya great pain, which is not what's supposed to happen when the Greater Grail is supporting you.
SolipsistSerpent
Endlessly Devouring
I could have sworn that she wasn't getting assistance until she took him to Fuyuki, but don't ask me to provide a citation.
- Location
- Sweden
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Yes, I think that is it. I haven't fact checked this but I think she summoned him so early the grail hadn't become active yet. Then it would be pretty logical that he was weaker since it was only Ilya feading him prana.
HymnOfRagnarok
Let's Rock
Actually yeah, it could just be that it took so much effort to sustain Herk that Ilya and Herk straight up didn't have enough power to keep God Hand active. That's a pretty simple explanation.
HymnOfRagnarok
Let's Rock
The forest belongs to the Einzbern I'm pretty sure; Church doesn't give a shit what goes on in there.
Defective Homunculus dump site? Scavengers eating discarded homunculus would probably mutate
Entropy Judge
Recurring Bouts of Misanthropy
Hmm ... well, I do have an omake idea that's been floating around my head for a month or so ....
Not without assistance.
Berserker was summoned without the Greater Grail's help and Illyasviel did have to power Berserker himself for a month or two, but it did go active before she left for Fuyuki (at least, that's what I understand from reading the relevant Interlude). It's possible that God Hand wasn't active/powered, but it's not mentioned, and I don't think anything is even implied about him being weaker without the Grail's help, but one of those is probably the most reasonable explanation. Hm.
I suppose the line about taking away his sanity could be used to argue that Berserker wasn't properly operating under the Class System until the Grail appeared, and argue from there that his Noble Phantasm wasn't fully active before that, too. :shrug:Interlude 13-2 said:...
It was only natural.
The Holy Grail would appear in two months.
The only things keeping him in this world were the girl's magical energy and her Command Spell.
Berserker was not created from the magical energy of the Holy Grail.
Even if the girl may have been special, to keep Berserker in this world using her own magical energy was like having her life taken away.
...
The girl insulted the giant every chance she got and used him to take out her anger.
The pain had lessened by the time she mastered Berserker's control, which was when the Holy Grail showed signs of its appearance.
The girl took away the giant's sanity as if in revenge, treating him as a "mad warrior".
It was only natural.Ah, well. Thank you all for the thoughts.
Wolves! (Apology for AMV.)
EDIT: Votes are locked.
[X] Talk to her privately.
- [X] Ask what's wrong.
- [X] Ask why she hates Berserker.
7
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Illyasviel's Dilemma
Entropy Judge
Recurring Bouts of Misanthropy
[X] Talk to her privately.
- [X] Ask what's wrong.
- [X] Ask why she hates Berserker.
"Illyasviel?" You sit down on the pool's edge, feet dangling in the water. "What's wrong?" She doesn't react. "I mean, I'm pretty sure something is wrong - most people don't go around destroying their homes on a whim, and it looked like something happened to you. … I don't mind if you tell me it's none of my business asking that, but I would like at least that much courtesy, Illyasviel von Einzbern." Her head tilts forward a little at your reprimand, but it's still another minute before she says anything.
"How would you feel if half your life was a lie?" You look down at her for a moment, then shrug and lean back, gently kicking your legs in the pool.
"Half my life … well, I don't know. The first, middle, or second half? And what kind of lie?" Illyasviel lets out a wracking sound, either a laugh or a sob.
"What if you were betrayed by your family?" You stiffen, frowning sadly at the unhappy memory.
"Family … shouldn't do that to each other." You can't keep the melancholy from your voice, and Illyasviel hesitates.
"There was a Grail War ten years ago. My father was sent as the Master of the Einzberns, and after he won the War and summoned the Grail, he was supposed to come back and we'd live together. He'd show me the world, places outside that castle, where it wasn't snowy and cold all the time. He had the best Servant, he'd been chosen as Master because he was a fighter and a winner … and he didn't win. He betrayed the Einzbern family, made sure that no one would win, and he never came back for me. He left me alone in that place. And the head of the Einzberns made sure I knew what had happened, that my father didn't even care enough about me to come see me again." She sobs, shaking, and hugs herself. "That he'd adopted a child in this country, decided to stay and live with that boy, that he was happy here. And that everything that I was being forced to go through was a result of that betrayal. Of course I came to hate my father. I went through so much pain because of him, and he just abandoned me!" A bolt of raw power sails over the water at her shriek, cracking the wall on the far side of the room, and Berserker roars sympathetically. She sits in the water, breathing heavily, for a long time before shaking herself, and her voice turns cold. "And then I got my chance. The Heaven's Feel. I would be a Master, of course - who better? - and then I could come here and take my revenge on my father, on that boy he took care of instead of me. I would come here, and I would torture them and eventually kill them, and then I would win the Heaven's Feel. My life would be complete, and empty." She looks up at you, finally, grinning wildly, eyes glinting unnaturally. "What do you think? That's justified, right?" You look at her for a moment, then sigh and stare across the pool.
"I don't know. Your family betrayed you, so some form of revenge is justified." Remilia never took revenge on you - never reprimanded you, even. You betrayed her, murdered her, and she just … ignored that it happened. You shiver and shut down the line of thought before it consumes you. "But to kill him? And … you couldn't have known, but what if the betrayal came from the other side? What if it was the Einzberns lying to you about what happened?" She giggles.
"I went to see that boy last night. Emiya Shirou." You giggles again and you watch her. "I wanted to know what he was like, my father. Did you know he died years ago? I didn't know that. I thought he was still alive. He wasn't happy, not really, and he was a dying, half-crippled man. He left the country several times … do you understand?" You nod: her father maybe did try to come see her, but weakened and near the end of his life, was unable to reach her. And the Einzberns deliberately kept it from her in order to mold her to their desires. "Yes; they taught me to hate, but not enough. And now … now …." She looks at her hands before staring at you, smiling hopefully and helplessly. "I can't make up my mind. Should I just keep doing what the Einzberns want? Or should I take Berserker back home and punish them? They lied to me, and between Berserker and myself we're too powerful for them to stop. We could kill them all." Her voice cracks and tears start running down her face. Berserker roars and smashes in the wall to the bath room as Illyasviel's hands start creeping up to her face. You catch her wrists and hold them away from her until she calms down. She leans limply against your legs, hugging them, and lays her head against your thigh. "What should I do?" You stroke her hair and your left wing swings down to caress her shoulder - the most protective gesture your wings are capable of.
"That's … difficult to answer. Um, is it alright if I ask another question first?" She takes so long to respond that you start wondering if she's going to say no, but eventually her head nods affirmatively. "Thank you. Why do you hate Berserker?" She's quiet again, unresponsive, but the massive Servant walks up behind you and she pulls away from you and reaches for him. It's an incongruous sight, but oddly appropriate. Black giant and white child, a male warrior and a female mage, unthinking strength and intellectual frailty. Berserker vanishes, and the moment with it, and Illyasviel climbs out of the pool, starting to dry herself off and get dressed.
"I have to hate him. I won't be able to see the ritual through, otherwise. I mean, I hated him when I first summoned him - I had to keep him here all by myself, without the Grail's help, and it was painful. I took out my frustrations on him, cursed and hit him. … I didn't have anything else, and even he had been given to me, but he was mine, only mine. My precious Berserker." Her voice trembles. "I want to spend as much time as I can with him. That's why I haven't really attacked anyone, why I restrain his strength when he does fight, because I don't want this war to be over. I want to stay with him … and I hate him because when the war ends, and the Heaven's Feel is complete, I'll have to order him to die in order to win. None of the Servants are supposed to survive, but since nothing else can kill Berserker, I'll have to make him do it. And the only way I can do that is if I hate him." She takes several deep breaths and looks up. "Ah, you brought your friend, that's good." She turns back to you and holds her arms out, smiling. "How do I look?" The ribbon at her neck is crooked - you'll have to fix that.
What do you do?
[ ] About her request for help:
- [ ] Suggest she go after the Einzberns.
- [ ] Suggest she stay and finish the Grail War.
- [ ] Other?
[ ] Talk about:
- [ ] Homunculus bodies.
- [ ] Fighting Berserker.
- [ ] The magic circle under the temple. (If Deis agrees.)
- [ ] Other?
- Anything to avoid talking about?
DM Note: Flan will fix Ilya's ribbon first thing next update You can do something other than talk, of course, but I dunno what that would be right now. Logic for picking one choice or the other (or for trying to convince Deis to talk about the magic circle) would be helpful, although it doesn't need to be put into the vote, just expressed clearly. And if it isn't clear from the formatting, the 'talk about' option will happen after introducing Ilya to Deis.
As far as the immediate options go, Flan's rationale for going after the Einzberns is that, as the blood-daughter of Shirou's father, and part-homunculus, she isn't an Einzbern and is free to go against them. On the other hand, suggesting she see the Grail War through to the end pushes the fact that she identifies as an Einzbern, so even if there is no blood relation, they're still family and she shouldn't destroy them. (And no, Flan doesn't really have a good idea for getting Deis to agree to share the magic circle information, so bear that in mind when you vote.)
- [X] Ask what's wrong.
- [X] Ask why she hates Berserker.
"Illyasviel?" You sit down on the pool's edge, feet dangling in the water. "What's wrong?" She doesn't react. "I mean, I'm pretty sure something is wrong - most people don't go around destroying their homes on a whim, and it looked like something happened to you. … I don't mind if you tell me it's none of my business asking that, but I would like at least that much courtesy, Illyasviel von Einzbern." Her head tilts forward a little at your reprimand, but it's still another minute before she says anything.
"How would you feel if half your life was a lie?" You look down at her for a moment, then shrug and lean back, gently kicking your legs in the pool.
"Half my life … well, I don't know. The first, middle, or second half? And what kind of lie?" Illyasviel lets out a wracking sound, either a laugh or a sob.
"What if you were betrayed by your family?" You stiffen, frowning sadly at the unhappy memory.
"Family … shouldn't do that to each other." You can't keep the melancholy from your voice, and Illyasviel hesitates.
"There was a Grail War ten years ago. My father was sent as the Master of the Einzberns, and after he won the War and summoned the Grail, he was supposed to come back and we'd live together. He'd show me the world, places outside that castle, where it wasn't snowy and cold all the time. He had the best Servant, he'd been chosen as Master because he was a fighter and a winner … and he didn't win. He betrayed the Einzbern family, made sure that no one would win, and he never came back for me. He left me alone in that place. And the head of the Einzberns made sure I knew what had happened, that my father didn't even care enough about me to come see me again." She sobs, shaking, and hugs herself. "That he'd adopted a child in this country, decided to stay and live with that boy, that he was happy here. And that everything that I was being forced to go through was a result of that betrayal. Of course I came to hate my father. I went through so much pain because of him, and he just abandoned me!" A bolt of raw power sails over the water at her shriek, cracking the wall on the far side of the room, and Berserker roars sympathetically. She sits in the water, breathing heavily, for a long time before shaking herself, and her voice turns cold. "And then I got my chance. The Heaven's Feel. I would be a Master, of course - who better? - and then I could come here and take my revenge on my father, on that boy he took care of instead of me. I would come here, and I would torture them and eventually kill them, and then I would win the Heaven's Feel. My life would be complete, and empty." She looks up at you, finally, grinning wildly, eyes glinting unnaturally. "What do you think? That's justified, right?" You look at her for a moment, then sigh and stare across the pool.
"I don't know. Your family betrayed you, so some form of revenge is justified." Remilia never took revenge on you - never reprimanded you, even. You betrayed her, murdered her, and she just … ignored that it happened. You shiver and shut down the line of thought before it consumes you. "But to kill him? And … you couldn't have known, but what if the betrayal came from the other side? What if it was the Einzberns lying to you about what happened?" She giggles.
"I went to see that boy last night. Emiya Shirou." You giggles again and you watch her. "I wanted to know what he was like, my father. Did you know he died years ago? I didn't know that. I thought he was still alive. He wasn't happy, not really, and he was a dying, half-crippled man. He left the country several times … do you understand?" You nod: her father maybe did try to come see her, but weakened and near the end of his life, was unable to reach her. And the Einzberns deliberately kept it from her in order to mold her to their desires. "Yes; they taught me to hate, but not enough. And now … now …." She looks at her hands before staring at you, smiling hopefully and helplessly. "I can't make up my mind. Should I just keep doing what the Einzberns want? Or should I take Berserker back home and punish them? They lied to me, and between Berserker and myself we're too powerful for them to stop. We could kill them all." Her voice cracks and tears start running down her face. Berserker roars and smashes in the wall to the bath room as Illyasviel's hands start creeping up to her face. You catch her wrists and hold them away from her until she calms down. She leans limply against your legs, hugging them, and lays her head against your thigh. "What should I do?" You stroke her hair and your left wing swings down to caress her shoulder - the most protective gesture your wings are capable of.
"That's … difficult to answer. Um, is it alright if I ask another question first?" She takes so long to respond that you start wondering if she's going to say no, but eventually her head nods affirmatively. "Thank you. Why do you hate Berserker?" She's quiet again, unresponsive, but the massive Servant walks up behind you and she pulls away from you and reaches for him. It's an incongruous sight, but oddly appropriate. Black giant and white child, a male warrior and a female mage, unthinking strength and intellectual frailty. Berserker vanishes, and the moment with it, and Illyasviel climbs out of the pool, starting to dry herself off and get dressed.
"I have to hate him. I won't be able to see the ritual through, otherwise. I mean, I hated him when I first summoned him - I had to keep him here all by myself, without the Grail's help, and it was painful. I took out my frustrations on him, cursed and hit him. … I didn't have anything else, and even he had been given to me, but he was mine, only mine. My precious Berserker." Her voice trembles. "I want to spend as much time as I can with him. That's why I haven't really attacked anyone, why I restrain his strength when he does fight, because I don't want this war to be over. I want to stay with him … and I hate him because when the war ends, and the Heaven's Feel is complete, I'll have to order him to die in order to win. None of the Servants are supposed to survive, but since nothing else can kill Berserker, I'll have to make him do it. And the only way I can do that is if I hate him." She takes several deep breaths and looks up. "Ah, you brought your friend, that's good." She turns back to you and holds her arms out, smiling. "How do I look?" The ribbon at her neck is crooked - you'll have to fix that.
What do you do?
[ ] About her request for help:
- [ ] Suggest she go after the Einzberns.
- [ ] Suggest she stay and finish the Grail War.
- [ ] Other?
[ ] Talk about:
- [ ] Homunculus bodies.
- [ ] Fighting Berserker.
- [ ] The magic circle under the temple. (If Deis agrees.)
- [ ] Other?
- Anything to avoid talking about?
DM Note: Flan will fix Ilya's ribbon first thing next update
You can do something other than talk, of course, but I dunno what that would be right now. Logic for picking one choice or the other (or for trying to convince Deis to talk about the magic circle) would be helpful, although it doesn't need to be put into the vote, just expressed clearly. And if it isn't clear from the formatting, the 'talk about' option will happen after introducing Ilya to Deis.As far as the immediate options go, Flan's rationale for going after the Einzberns is that, as the blood-daughter of Shirou's father, and part-homunculus, she isn't an Einzbern and is free to go against them. On the other hand, suggesting she see the Grail War through to the end pushes the fact that she identifies as an Einzbern, so even if there is no blood relation, they're still family and she shouldn't destroy them. (And no, Flan doesn't really have a good idea for getting Deis to agree to share the magic circle information, so bear that in mind when you vote.)
- Location
- Bowling Green
[X] About her request for help:
-[X] Be a good daughter and follow your Father's footsteps. He must have had a good reason for not winning, so you should do the same. Just kill the other servants and then don't win.
--[X] That way you can keep Berserker too.
[X] Talk about:
-[X] Homunculus bodies.
-[X] Fighting Berserker.
-[X] The magic circle under the temple. (If Deis agrees.)
-[X] Be a good daughter and follow your Father's footsteps. He must have had a good reason for not winning, so you should do the same. Just kill the other servants and then don't win.
--[X] That way you can keep Berserker too.
[X] Talk about:
-[X] Homunculus bodies.
-[X] Fighting Berserker.
-[X] The magic circle under the temple. (If Deis agrees.)
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Videoshards
Stuck writing reports for commanders.
- Location
- America
[X] About her request for help:
-[X] Be a good daughter and follow your Father's footsteps. He must have had a good reason for not winning, so you should do the same. Just kill the other servants and then don't win.
--[X] That way you can keep Berserker too.
[X] Talk about:
-[X] Homunculus bodies.
-[X] Fighting Berserker.
-[X] The magic circle under the temple. (If Deis agrees.)
-[X] Be a good daughter and follow your Father's footsteps. He must have had a good reason for not winning, so you should do the same. Just kill the other servants and then don't win.
--[X] That way you can keep Berserker too.
[X] Talk about:
-[X] Homunculus bodies.
-[X] Fighting Berserker.
-[X] The magic circle under the temple. (If Deis agrees.)
- Location
- A Place Miserably Bereft of Cats
[X] About her request for help:
-[X] They took you from your family, so you need to take what they want most away, too. Figure out how to dismantle the Grail War- the whole ritual, find a way to tear it all down. If they're willing to make you suffer for it, then they'll probably keep at it as long as there's still the possibility that they can win.
--[X] Maybe there might be a way to keep Berserker afterwards, too.
[X] Talk about:
-[X] Homunculus bodies.
-[X] Fighting Berserker.
-[X] The magic circle under the temple. (If Deis agrees.)
--[X] Illya might actually know what it is, especially if it's connected to the Grail War at all.
What, have her finish the war and end up even worse off than dear old dad?
No, this is the best way to do it. Also, might lead to Waver showing up early or something.
-[X] They took you from your family, so you need to take what they want most away, too. Figure out how to dismantle the Grail War- the whole ritual, find a way to tear it all down. If they're willing to make you suffer for it, then they'll probably keep at it as long as there's still the possibility that they can win.
--[X] Maybe there might be a way to keep Berserker afterwards, too.
[X] Talk about:
-[X] Homunculus bodies.
-[X] Fighting Berserker.
-[X] The magic circle under the temple. (If Deis agrees.)
--[X] Illya might actually know what it is, especially if it's connected to the Grail War at all.
What, have her finish the war and end up even worse off than dear old dad?
No, this is the best way to do it. Also, might lead to Waver showing up early or something.
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Only issue I have with that is the last part with the magic circle.
Given Entropy's comments, I have the feeling that unless we give a specific incentive for Deis to cooperate in the vote, it's not going to work. So we need to figure that out to move forward.
- Location
- Earth
[X] About her request for help:
-[X] Which one is more of a family to you? Your father or the Einzberns?
[X] Talk about:
- [X] Homunculus bodies.
-[X] Fighting Berserker.
I just think that Flandre wouldn't know the best way to go about this dilemma and default to what's simple and what knowledge she has.
-[X] Which one is more of a family to you? Your father or the Einzberns?
[X] Talk about:
- [X] Homunculus bodies.
-[X] Fighting Berserker.
I just think that Flandre wouldn't know the best way to go about this dilemma and default to what's simple and what knowledge she has.
- Location
- A Place Miserably Bereft of Cats
Hmmm. Added a reason, but I'm not sure if we can make that call. I do feel like it's definitely got something to do with things, but I can't say for sure.
HymnOfRagnarok
Let's Rock
Do we suspect the magic circle is the Greater Grail, or related to the Servant system?
Ilya just admitted she summoned Berserker without the Grail's help. But Ilya also said she has the Grail. What she really means is that she's the Lesser Grail, but the holes in the story are showing through.
Point is, it is now known that there's something in Fuyuki that is sustaining the Servants, alongside the Masters. Something incredibly powerful, to sustain multiple Servants. Which leads us to Occum's Razor; the magic circle and leylines Deis found are the only things we know of with the slightest chance in hell of pulling that feat off, which means they're probably related.
Or there's a third unimaginably powerful source sustaining all those Servants and we still have no clue what it is, in which case they need to know so they can look for it, or possibly to pull the plug on the entire Grail War if it gets too hot.
But if the magic circle is related to what Ilya knows, then Ilya probably has the best chance of filling Deis in on what it does. Ilya probably doesn't know how it works, not the nuts and bolts, but just filling Deis in on the general purpose of everything may help Deis deduce what everything in the circle means.
Alternatively, Ilya decides she wants a look herself, and barrels past Caster, and we have many awkward questions to answer.
Ilya just admitted she summoned Berserker without the Grail's help. But Ilya also said she has the Grail. What she really means is that she's the Lesser Grail, but the holes in the story are showing through.
Point is, it is now known that there's something in Fuyuki that is sustaining the Servants, alongside the Masters. Something incredibly powerful, to sustain multiple Servants. Which leads us to Occum's Razor; the magic circle and leylines Deis found are the only things we know of with the slightest chance in hell of pulling that feat off, which means they're probably related.
Or there's a third unimaginably powerful source sustaining all those Servants and we still have no clue what it is, in which case they need to know so they can look for it, or possibly to pull the plug on the entire Grail War if it gets too hot.
But if the magic circle is related to what Ilya knows, then Ilya probably has the best chance of filling Deis in on what it does. Ilya probably doesn't know how it works, not the nuts and bolts, but just filling Deis in on the general purpose of everything may help Deis deduce what everything in the circle means.
Alternatively, Ilya decides she wants a look herself, and barrels past Caster, and we have many awkward questions to answer.
- Location
- Thailand
[X] About her request for help:
-[X] Suggest she try and find out why her father didn't win the war. To have come that far and refuse the prize at the end....surely there's a reason for that. It may let Ilya make a more informed decision about what to do about the Einzberns.
-[X] Though, if she really wanted to spite them...she could try dismantling or destroying the Grail War system. Kiritsugu denied them their victory, but didn't deny them a second chance at the prize it seems. Ilya could rectify that, if she wanted.
-[X] She may find a way to let her keep Berserker too.
[X] Talk about:
-[X] Homunculus bodies.
-[X] Fighting Berserker.
-[X] The magic circle under the temple. (If Deis agrees.)
--[X] Inform Deis that something in Fuyuki is letting the Masters maintain Servants, and that Ilya is unique for doing it all on her own. Logic dictates that it must be something extremely powerful...like the magic circle. Ilya may know something about that, or be able to fill us in on facts we don't know. But if the two aren't related, then that implies there's a third powerful magic spell or ritual that we don't know about. Either way, it seems like a chance to get useful information.
-[X] Suggest she try and find out why her father didn't win the war. To have come that far and refuse the prize at the end....surely there's a reason for that. It may let Ilya make a more informed decision about what to do about the Einzberns.
-[X] Though, if she really wanted to spite them...she could try dismantling or destroying the Grail War system. Kiritsugu denied them their victory, but didn't deny them a second chance at the prize it seems. Ilya could rectify that, if she wanted.
-[X] She may find a way to let her keep Berserker too.
[X] Talk about:
-[X] Homunculus bodies.
-[X] Fighting Berserker.
-[X] The magic circle under the temple. (If Deis agrees.)
--[X] Inform Deis that something in Fuyuki is letting the Masters maintain Servants, and that Ilya is unique for doing it all on her own. Logic dictates that it must be something extremely powerful...like the magic circle. Ilya may know something about that, or be able to fill us in on facts we don't know. But if the two aren't related, then that implies there's a third powerful magic spell or ritual that we don't know about. Either way, it seems like a chance to get useful information.
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HymnOfRagnarok
Let's Rock
You guys do realize that Ilya killing all the other Servants still fucks her up, right? She starts shutting down as a person once she gets a number of Servants in her. Sakura lasts longer, Ilya....not so much. She stops being a person in order to be a Grail.
Worse yet, without Ilya actually using the wish and all that stored energy, she's effectively in a coma.
The write-in seems made with good intentions, but it will end with Ilya being damned no matter what happens. Either she loses Berserker before she loses herself, or she loses herself.
...And her maids likely use Ilya as the Grail, like the original plan was. Ilya needs their help to act as a Grail and complete the ritual, IIRC.
Though, pushing Ilya to find out why Kiritsugu didn't win is a pretty good idea, and gets us almost everything we want. Including info on the magic circle. It may also give her insight into what was going on with Kiritsugu and satisfy some of her questions.
Worse yet, without Ilya actually using the wish and all that stored energy, she's effectively in a coma.
The write-in seems made with good intentions, but it will end with Ilya being damned no matter what happens. Either she loses Berserker before she loses herself, or she loses herself.
...And her maids likely use Ilya as the Grail, like the original plan was. Ilya needs their help to act as a Grail and complete the ritual, IIRC.
Though, pushing Ilya to find out why Kiritsugu didn't win is a pretty good idea, and gets us almost everything we want. Including info on the magic circle. It may also give her insight into what was going on with Kiritsugu and satisfy some of her questions.
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