Fire Emblem: Last of the Manakete

[Calico J]

[X] You decide Melissa does make some good points. With the Empire seemingly trying to take everyone over, any division among the people who are inclined to oppose that (who seem to overlap remarkably well with the group who tend to like you and your manaketeness) would be bad. You'll have centuries to figure out how to best share the oneness of Sol Invictus and the Mother, no need to rush it.
-[X] That said, both you and Melissa are entirely too wet behind the ears and lacking in knowledge to do more than make vague guesses. The Mother/Sol combined Hearth to the Dragon, exactly to give temperance and sensibility to her children. And the temperate and sensible option would be to consult, if not older, then at least more experienced and wiser heads than your own. People like Melissa's mother, or aunt, or that charming abbot Father Simon.

It seems as if people are assuming the issue will go away if we don't poke at it. Living in willful denial is taking a decent risk that it could blow up in our faces someday, and if it does, it could be a major thing. Staying on good political terms with another world power should probably not be based on deceptions.

 

[Shadowhisker]

[X] You decide Melissa does make some good points. With the Empire seemingly trying to take everyone over, any division among the people who are inclined to oppose that (who seem to overlap remarkably well with the group who tend to like you and your manaketeness) would be bad. You'll have centuries to figure out how to best share the oneness of Sol Invictus and the Mother, no need to rush it.
-[X] That said, both you and Melissa are entirely too wet behind the ears and lacking in knowledge to do more than make vague guesses. The mother/Sol combined Hearth to the Dragon, exactly to give temperance and sensibility to her children. And the temperate and sensible option would be to consult, if not older, then at least more experienced and wiser heads than your own. People like Melissa's mother, or aunt, or that charming abbot Father Simon.

 

[Random Sanity]

It seems as if people are assuming the issue will go away if we don't poke at it. Living in willful denial is taking a decent risk that it could blow up in our faces someday, and if it does, it could be a major thing. Staying on good political terms with another world power should probably not be based on deceptions.

Click to shrink...

Not bringing up a topic that's guaranteed to get a negative response for no gain is not deception. It's basic etiquette. Ryza doesn't even have anything to deceive people about; she has a vague, ill-defined hypothesis based on circumstantial evidence that's going to convince exactly no-one. These are the kind of notions you KEEP TO YOURSELF until you've got some hard proof to back you up, and even then you should be ready for backlash.

 

[SurpriseMe]

[X] You decide Melissa does make some good points. With the Empire seemingly trying to take everyone over, any division among the people who are inclined to oppose that (who seem to overlap remarkably well with the group who tend to like you and your manaketeness) would be bad. You'll have centuries to figure out how to best share the oneness of Sol Invictus and the Mother, no need to rush it.

 

[Fish & Chips]

[X] You decide Melissa does make some good points. With the Empire seemingly trying to take everyone over, any division among the people who are inclined to oppose that (who seem to overlap remarkably well with the group who tend to like you and your manaketeness) would be bad. You'll have centuries to figure out how to best share the oneness of Sol Invictus and the Mother, no need to rush it.
-[X] That said, both you and Melissa are entirely too wet behind the ears and lacking in knowledge to do more than make vague guesses. The Mother/Sol combined Hearth to the Dragon, exactly to give temperance and sensibility to her children. And the temperate and sensible option would be to consult, if not older, then at least more experienced and wiser heads than your own. People like Melissa's mother, or aunt, or that charming abbot Father Simon.

Simply roll high. Just roll high. What's stopping us?

 

[Hestia&theCourt]

That, and like. We're actively trying to fight in a war and trying to figure out a way for humans to use magic without desecrating the dead. Our schedule is booked for the foreseeable future. We don't need to start a religious schism alongside all the other shit we're trying to do. Wait until our dance card is less full, and we can devote proving this to our heart's content. But now is an actively bad time to add another time-consuming task to our list.

 

[Alcor]

I initially voted for the write-in option to preserve the option of reconsidering this decision but switched off it when I stopped and realized that everyone mentioned there is a believer in Sol Invictus. I think it'd be better to get the opinion of someone more impartial like at the Hall, or even Artemis, first and see if they were like "oh god do not do that ryza"

 

[Kankuro]

[X] You decide Melissa does make some good points. With the Empire seemingly trying to take everyone over, any division among the people who are inclined to oppose that (who seem to overlap remarkably well with the group who tend to like you and your manaketeness) would be bad. You'll have centuries to figure out how to best share the oneness of Sol Invictus and the Mother, no need to rush it.

 

[JAGwin]

[X] You decide Melissa does make some good points. With the Empire seemingly trying to take everyone over, any division among the people who are inclined to oppose that (who seem to overlap remarkably well with the group who tend to like you and your manaketeness) would be bad. You'll have centuries to figure out how to best share the oneness of Sol Invictus and the Mother, no need to rush it.

Yeah, I'm with Alcor on this.

 

[McFluffles]

[X] You decide Melissa does make some good points. With the Empire seemingly trying to take everyone over, any division among the people who are inclined to oppose that (who seem to overlap remarkably well with the group who tend to like you and your manaketeness) would be bad. You'll have centuries to figure out how to best share the oneness of Sol Invictus and the Mother, no need to rush it.

Simply roll high. Just roll high. What's stopping us?

Click to shrink...

Rolling dice? What could possibly go wrong-

"Mary-"

The woman's head jerks up. "Don't," she says sharply. "Just don't. Don't talk to me except in connection to finishing the job."

"But-"

"Don't."

Click to shrink...

Oh yeah, lots, the answer is lots

More seriously, while I understand the other vote, I just don't think the middle of what's likely to become a continent-wide war that's likely backed by super omega evil forces or something is the best time to risk potentially causing a religious schism or getting declared a heretic. A small risk, sure, but not one I think is worth running into at the current point in time, especially considering... well yeah, we do have centuries to more carefully push our own beliefs assuming we live through the war.

And if we don't live through the war, we probably have bigger problems.

 

[GreatWyrmGold]

And if we don't live through the war, we probably have bigger problems.

Click to shrink...

I philosophically disagree with this statement, but I get what you mean.

That, and like. We're actively trying to fight in a war and trying to figure out a way for humans to use magic without desecrating the dead. Our schedule is booked for the foreseeable future. We don't need to start a religious schism alongside all the other shit we're trying to do. Wait until our dance card is less full, and we can devote proving this to our heart's content. But now is an actively bad time to add another time-consuming task to our list.

Click to shrink...

It would be hilarious if Ryza accidentally caused a religious schism. But let's not risk doing it on purpose.

I initially voted for the write-in option to preserve the option of reconsidering this decision but switched off it when I stopped and realized that everyone mentioned there is a believer in Sol Invictus. I think it'd be better to get the opinion of someone more impartial like at the Hall, or even Artemis, first and see if they were like "oh god do not do that ryza"

Click to shrink...

On a similar note, part of me wants Ryza to do that and then find out that Melissa talked about Ryza's hypothesis with a friend and the rumors reached a bunch of rabble-rousing philosophers.


[X] You decide Melissa does make some good points. With the Empire seemingly trying to take everyone over, any division among the people who are inclined to oppose that (who seem to overlap remarkably well with the group who tend to like you and your manaketeness) would be bad. You'll have centuries to figure out how to best share the oneness of Sol Invictus and the Mother, no need to rush it.

 

[WGDragoon]

[X] You decide Melissa does make some good points. With the Empire seemingly trying to take everyone over, any division among the people who are inclined to oppose that (who seem to overlap remarkably well with the group who tend to like you and your manaketeness) would be bad. You'll have centuries to figure out how to best share the oneness of Sol Invictus and the Mother, no need to rush it.

 

[yannoshka]

[X] You decide Melissa does make some good points. With the Empire seemingly trying to take everyone over, any division among the people who are inclined to oppose that (who seem to overlap remarkably well with the group who tend to like you and your manaketeness) would be bad. You'll have centuries to figure out how to best share the oneness of Sol Invictus and the Mother, no need to rush it.
-[X] That said, both you and Melissa are entirely too wet behind the ears and lacking in knowledge to do more than make vague guesses. The Mother/Sol combined Hearth to the Dragon, exactly to give temperance and sensibility to her children. And the temperate and sensible option would be to consult, if not older, then at least more experienced and wiser heads than your own. People like Melissa's mother, or aunt, or that charming abbot Father Simon.

I am sorry, but I am going to be a rude arse here.
The situation calls for it.

People, check your reading comprehension and/or put on some goddamn reading glasses on, and stop projecting your own dumb biases on what the damn add-on is actually about.

It is about being a god-damn mature individual and asking god-damn advice from those best suited to give it.
Because, yanno what?
Ryza might be old in human years, but she is, by her own admission, still a child by her own kind's standards, and acts in a decidedly and demonstrably childish manner. Because that is what she is.

So stop patting yourselves on the back on your mature attitudes for refusing to ask for advice on a complicated and involved matter.
Because that just makes you sound silly.

By all means, choose the other option.
But don't present it as something it is not, just because you are running high on the vote this has been spun off of.

 

[Hestia&theCourt]

I am sorry, but I am going to be a rude arse here.
The situation calls for it.

Click to shrink...

"...you remember that quests are supposed to be fun, right? Nothing about this situation is important enough to warrant insulting people for not voting for the thing you want them to vote for."

As a matter of fact, you have just torpedoed any chance of convincing us, at least, to change votes. Now we're sticking to our vote out of sheer spite.

 

[SoaringHawk218]

[X] You decide Melissa does make some good points. With the Empire seemingly trying to take everyone over, any division among the people who are inclined to oppose that (who seem to overlap remarkably well with the group who tend to like you and your manaketeness) would be bad. You'll have centuries to figure out how to best share the oneness of Sol Invictus and the Mother, no need to rush it.
-[X] That said, both you and Melissa are entirely too wet behind the ears and lacking in knowledge to do more than make vague guesses. The Mother/Sol combined Hearth to the Dragon, exactly to give temperance and sensibility to her children. And the temperate and sensible option would be to consult, if not older, then at least more experienced and wiser heads than your own. People like Melissa's mother, or aunt, or that charming abbot Father Simon.

I am sorry, but I am going to be a rude arse here.
The situation calls for it.

Click to shrink...

Please keep things calm.

EDIT: Ninja'd

 

[yannoshka]

"...you remember that quests are supposed to be fun, right? Nothing about this situation is important enough to warrant insulting people for not voting for the thing you want them to vote for."

As a matter of fact, you have just torpedoed any chance of convincing us, at least, to change votes. Now we're sticking to our vote out of sheer spite.

Click to shrink...

And you are just proving my point, both by self-admitting to pettiness and not actually reading what is written and projecting your own biases, which is the actual point I was being an arse about, so...
Hey, at least I apologized in advance...

In conclusion...
Bully to you?
Have a nice life, I guess, I know I will, within my reasonable means.

 

[GreatWyrmGold]

I am sorry, but I am going to be a rude arse here.
The situation calls for it.

People, check your reading comprehension and/or put on some goddamn reading glasses on, and stop projecting your own dumb biases on what the damn add-on is actually about.

It is about being a god-damn mature individual and asking god-damn advice from those best suited to give it.

Click to shrink...

I am sorry, but I'm gonna be a rude arse in return.

Would you ask a geologist whether olivine is a good salad garnish? Because sometimes, the answer to a question is obvious enough that you don't need expert advice.

Broadly speaking, there are three possible ways the Divine Realm could react to Ryza suggesting that Sol Invictus is actually an ancient forgotten dragon god:

• Most people could react positively, which seems unlikely, but even if it was the benefits over staying silent seem speculative at best.
• Most people could react negatively, which could strain or shatter their alliance against the Empire. It certainly wouldn't be good.
• Significant numbers of people could react in different ways.
  Even if this didn't cause a proper Schism, it could exacerbate divisions between pre-existing factions, and we already know some priests are willing to help the Empire even when the dragon-witch isn't trying to convert them to her ancient pagan superstition.

You don't need to ask a goddamn theologian whether the nature of God is a controversial topic to ask a bunch of priests! Of course it is! And more importantly, doing so provides no benefit in the short term!

In the long term? Yes, Ryza should look for some friends who know what they're talking about and discuss her theories with them. But the short term is another matter entirely. Why stir the pot now, of all times?

 

[Herofox]

Why stir the pot now, of all times?

Click to shrink...

Why not? Not that I'm saying your wrong, but what difference does waiting make?

 

[Axel Fones]

Why not? Not that I'm saying your wrong, but what difference does waiting make?

Click to shrink...

Stirring the pot in regards to a potentially ally in the middle of a war versus waiting for the war to end and doing it then are so blatantly different I have to believe you're joking or playing devil's advocate.

 

[Herofox]

Stirring the pot in regards to a potentially ally in the middle of a war versus waiting for the war to end and doing it then are so blatantly different I have to believe you're joking or playing devil's advocate.

Click to shrink...

Ah okay. Sorry, didn't read most of the convo.

 

[Simon. Andersen]

[x] You decide Melissa does make some good points. With the Empire seemingly trying to take everyone over, any division among the people who are inclined to oppose that (who seem to overlap remarkably well with the group who tend to like you and your manaketeness) would be bad. You'll have centuries to figure out how to best share the oneness of Sol Invictus and the Mother, no need to rush it.

 

[yannoshka]

Would you ask a geologist whether olivine is a good salad garnish? Because sometimes, the answer to a question is obvious enough that you don't need expert advice.

Click to shrink...

Seeing as I have no idea what olivine is, besides some kind of rock?
Absolutely.
After all, rock salt is something that goes well on salads, and still falls within geologists' bailiwick.

You might think something is blindingly obvious.
That does not mean a, and I cannot stress this enough, literal child/young teen who has spent the last however much almost literally under the rock, and furthermore is not even of the same species as the affected parties, might see it with the same eyes.

So, sorry, but to me your argument is ringing very hollow.

And, for the third time, that is not even what I was rude about.

For those that still need it spelled out: As the author of the write-in, I was taking umbrage at strawmanning and projecting aspects to the vote that are not actually there.
So, yes, argue your case, but at minimum read what is in the addon before proclaiming that asking for the advice of those who know more about the matter at hand is in some bizarre way the equivalent of opening the issue to... I dunno? peer rewiev at the seminaries?
That is called being disingenuous and arguing in bad faith.

I never once attacked people for not supporting the addon, only for engaging in bad debate practices.

 

[Alectai]

[x] You decide Melissa does make some good points. With the Empire seemingly trying to take everyone over, any division among the people who are inclined to oppose that (who seem to overlap remarkably well with the group who tend to like you and your manaketeness) would be bad. You'll have centuries to figure out how to best share the oneness of Sol Invictus and the Mother, no need to rush it.

 

[Miho Chan]

[X] You decide Melissa does make some good points. With the Empire seemingly trying to take everyone over, any division among the people who are inclined to oppose that (who seem to overlap remarkably well with the group who tend to like you and your manaketeness) would be bad. You'll have centuries to figure out how to best share the oneness of Sol Invictus and the Mother, no need to rush it.
-[X] That said, both you and Melissa are entirely too wet behind the ears and lacking in knowledge to do more than make vague guesses. The mother/Sol combined Hearth to the Dragon, exactly to give temperance and sensibility to her children. And the temperate and sensible option would be to consult, if not older, then at least more experienced and wiser heads than your own. People like Melissa's mother, or aunt, or that charming abbot Father Simon.

Honestly, I still prefer this to letting everyone live in ignorance, but I would personally prefer if this was handled in a more complex vote than a binary option, tbh.

Edit: I'll likely type out an position on why I'm advocating for stirring the pot later today, since I do have more than just "it'd be funny"

 

[GreatWyrmGold]

Seeing as I have no idea what olivine is, besides some kind of rock?
Absolutely.
After all, rock salt is something that goes well on salads, and still falls within geologists' bailiwick.

You might think something is blindingly obvious.
That does not mean a, and I cannot stress this enough, literal child/young teen who has spent the last however much almost literally under the rock, and furthermore is not even of the same species as the affected parties, might see it with the same eyes.

So, sorry, but to me your argument is ringing very hollow.

And, for the third time, that is not even what I was rude about.

For those that still need it spelled out: As the author of the write-in, I was taking umbrage at strawmanning and projecting aspects to the vote that are not actually there.
So, yes, argue your case, but at minimum read what is in the addon before proclaiming that asking for the advice of those who know more about the matter at hand is in some bizarre way the equivalent of opening the issue to... I dunno? peer rewiev at the seminaries?
That is called being disingenuous and arguing in bad faith.

I never once attacked people for not supporting the addon, only for engaging in bad debate practices.

Click to shrink...

Saying that you were only attacking people for engaging in bad debate practices would be more reasonable if you were responding to specific people engaging in specific Bad Debate Practices, and not just gesturing broadly at people who disagree with you.

People, check your reading comprehension and/or put on some goddamn reading glasses on, and stop projecting your own dumb biases on what the damn add-on is actually about.

It is about being a god-damn mature individual and asking god-damn advice from those best suited to give it.
Because, yanno what?
Ryza might be old in human years, but she is, by her own admission, still a child by her own kind's standards, and acts in a decidedly and demonstrably childish manner. Because that is what she is.

So stop patting yourselves on the back on your mature attitudes for refusing to ask for advice on a complicated and involved matter.
Because that just makes you sound silly.

Click to shrink...

Your write-in was asking for advice. Your post quoted above is calling people self-righteous imbeciles for not wanting to ask for advice. That's not criticizing bad debate practices, that's criticizing everyone who didn't vote for your idea.

I don't know whether I should accuse you of failing to comprehend how your own post would sound to other people or of arguing in bad faith, but either way, you're being a hypocritical asshole instead of the correct asshole you think you are.