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Fencer's Plot Bunnies

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Cradle and Dune are both on my brain and just collided like dropping a kitten in a bag full of yarn balls.

Take the cradle series but people figured out a way to travel to other planets find highly singular biom planets get paths based around those biomes.

Or just superimpose cradle's magic system on any scifi series where humanity travels to the stars.

Sandworms as sacred beasts, fuck the big big ones would eventually gain sentience and there would have to be a worm Monarch at some point in time which would complicate the politics all to fucking hell. And make for some truly fascinating changes if you ran with the idea! And any planet with a singular biome would be…. I mean for Dune the vital aura options would be wind, earth, light, shadow at night and in the caves, venom/poison maybe? dream in the sietch around people, sword and force I suppose. Everything else would be too rare to bother with. Reverend mothers are all on dream paths!!!! That would tie into the prescience and religious aspects pretty nicely and oh oh!! They take in remnants of previous reverend mothers when they advance to gold and that's how they pass along memories well that and a special dream technique! Everyone with an iron body that lets them go longer without water.

You'd have similar set ups for Tattoine! And oh man this could be so freaking cool!!!

Like star wars part of why the Emperor is unassailable is he's a Monarch but then you either need to make monarch harder to reach or really just advancement in general harder or he would need the backing of more monarchs….

Dune though…. Oh man I'd need to really really rewrite that to make it work at all. Paul would have to be super young for the move, Jessica would have to be the one keeping them alive when they first hit the desert fleeing for their lives, that way he's still young enough to learn a fremen path which would call for a much longer time skip and mean he wouldn't have a bunch of the training the fremen want so again more pressure on Jessica. Could very handily replace the sand walk with veiling their spirits or a specific enforcer technique designed to make their madra blend with their surroundings. Which would make them all super stealthy assassins.

I have ideas!!!!
 
Blaflaix said:
The most critical part would be sorting out the effects of Melange.
Does it help cultivation?
Hurt it?
Is there a Spice Path?
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Oooh tricky. The obvious answer is that it and the water of life are sacred treasures or the water of life is a refined sacred treasure… anyway Refined spice can be worked into insanely valuable elixirs and pills. The locals want to defend it because it's one of the very few natural treasures dune produces. The problem with the obvious answer that it boosts prescience (oh my fuck the guild would need a path solely focused on seeing the future!!! Space dream path!!!!) which wouldn't make sense because as something the worms produce it wouldn't have any reasonable connection to prescience. One of spices less talked about qualities is the tremendous life extending health benefits and the fact that extended exposure makes one immune to a lot of common poisons…

Could be sought after for those reasons instead. But that's not really enough to properly translate it's importance. Life treasures would thrive in any rainforest.

Worms would obviously be on an earth path, amazing ability to sense anyone on the desert if the can "hear" the footsteps a force aspect would make sense, their teeth could make them sword aspect or the teeth are another natural treasure!!! teeth or remnant teeth used to make Crysknife? Real teeth. Remnant teeth wouldn't have a binding not one per tooth. Fremen culture really does scream some kind of sword path at least for the warriors. Worms mostly travel underground so shadow would be a possible aspect so could theoretically justify prescience boosting spice but I'm not sure that fits.

You could claim the worms find prey by prescience, would probably have to go with shadow aspect for that to work. But them the fremen would all have to be good enough to hide from prescience and that would take some pretty serious work and you'd always be gambling that the troop isn't found by a worm more advanced then the lowest member of the group.

Hmmmm ohhhhh! the spice is a life and light treasure! Light symbolically as in shine a light into the dark! Pierce the dark veil of the future! Much better!

Guild wants it because it enhances their abilities so that none oracle sages can safely chart a path. Everyone else wants it as a life treasure. The reverend mothers also want it for prescience reasons. The Fremen again want it because it's one of the few things they have and it's life aspect helps them survive in harsh conditions.

Fremen paths. Can't just be one.

Shadow paths for night travelers,

Light paths because dune in the day could give you little else.

Wind and earth paths for certain.

Sword paths because come on that culture demands it be a major part.

Every fremen carries a knife. Entire culture of sword artists? With the secondary aspect being a personal choice or based on family clan whatever?
 
Blaflaix said:
I would like to see a Knife Path.

Both for the stabby bits, but also in the "this is a tool I use to shape the world around me" aspect.

Sword artists see Knife artists as weaklings.
Knife artists see Sword artists as brainless thugs.
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Ehhhhh technically anything sharp gathers sword madra. Knife spear sword it's all the same madra.
 
kaosisreality said:
If you want to point to a single event in Dune that would fundamentally change the entire plot of that universe, Jessica chooses to have a daughter (as per the Bene Gesserit instructions) is difficult to beat. Most other events will eventually lead to the fall of House Atreides and the rise of the Mahdi, with the jihad that follows.
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True, that would be the single point of divergence that could significantly change everything. Maybe the war that lead to the creation of Mentats (totally forget the name, but it was significant) would be another, but it'd stop being a Dune universe at that point I think.
 
Shai halud would be the name of the sandworm monarch who controls the south of the planet. If there is an oracle sage on the planet paul's coming being foreseen could be an actual thing and not bene gesserit bullshit!

Actual point of the bene gesserit though would have to change. Controlling humanity…

Dream artist and prophets focused on preventing the rise of monarchs who would act otherwise than what they deem best for humanity. Take soul oaths to never strive for monarch, never advance beyond sage, because power attracts the corruptible. They self moderate. Then try to apply that to everyone else. Guild path has nothing to do with combat or something about it damages the spirit in such a way that they can't advance to herald or their remnants always kill the ones that try.

The prominence of the great houses…. How to advance into and past the lord realm is highly classified? How to advance to herald is classified? Can't prevent sages and even the sloppy slow advancement through the lord realm is something a person could do by accident. But it would be rare. Swear the ones who manage it to secrecy with soul oaths and if the knowledge is restricted to the great houses that means by default the bene gesserit have fewer people to focus on and moderate. They occasionally loose planets to monarchs who's rise they fail to prevent but then simply cut off trade with those planets if the monarch won't play ball. Spice and Dune's importance to space travel means they can't just cut the planet off they have to fight or negotiate.

Monarchs who will negotiate become a new great house.

Oh shit. Small handfull of fremen water artists. Chosen at birth they are the water counters and officiate collecting the water of the dead. Important religious figures.
 
The problem with that is that cradle is already canonically, interstellar. All the monarchs that ascend off the planet are interstellar not in a higher plane of existence. There are stages above monarch, I think, and those that have ascended regard of the monarchs that remain on cradle, as big babies, refusing to grow up. That's why the world is called cradle.
This is even tied into the existence of the dreadgods. They are overall a reaction by the world itself to the existence of monarchs on it. It can't handle the conceptual strain easily and those beasts are the reaction.
 
death & gravitas said:
The problem with that is that cradle is already canonically, interstellar.
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Er no, it's not. Cradle and it's moon have people living on them. Ascending to the heavens is going to another iteration. Basically another dimension. Some of these dimensions are anchored to the way by only one world with people. And others like Will's new series, the last horizon, life has spread all over the damn place. Yes the dread beasts are the result of hunger madra which is a result of monarchs but if you're already slamming two series together to make a new whole… getting rid of the option to ascend and hunger madra just makes the new fusion better contained.
 
very well it's your story if you write it. You have creative license .Give it you and make it good as all of your stories to plot bunnies, that I've read are.
 
I thought one of the big reasons the Emperor put the Atraides in charge of Arrakis, was because of what Gurney and Duncan Idaho were doing. Between them, they had raised the fighting capabilities of the House Atraides forces to just shy of the Sardukar. Which was thought to be a threat to the Emperor.

That, and the Mentat was next level as a spy master.

But, Duncan was a Swordmaster and Gurney was a badass, and it was what they taught Paul, that allowed him to train the Fremen up to such a high level of skill in fighting.
 
Finbar said:
I thought one of the big reasons the Emperor put the Atraides in charge of Arrakis, was because of what Gurney and Duncan Idaho were doing. Between them, they had raised the fighting capabilities of the House Atraides forces to just shy of the Sardukar. Which was thought to be a threat to the Emperor.
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Nope. Ultimately, the Great Houses (including House Corrino, the House of the Emperor that gave Arrakis to the Atreides) are nuclear powers. That they field armies is largely down to them not wanting to waste their nuclear arsenals and the fact that the nuclear arsenals themselves are an inherent threat to anyone who doesn't have a nuclear arsenal.

Frank Herbert was extending out the nuclear MAD idea to an interplanetary human government that devolved into aristocracy and then stabilized. But the Bene Gesserit certainly helped keep the government stable from the shadows through their breeding program. The Tleilaxu helped too.
 
Finbar said:
I thought one of the big reasons the Emperor put the Atraides in charge of Arrakis, was because of what Gurney and Duncan Idaho were doing. Between them, they had raised the fighting capabilities of the House Atraides forces to just shy of the Sardukar. Which was thought to be a threat to the Emperor.

That, and the Mentat was next level as a spy master.

But, Duncan was a Swordmaster and Gurney was a badass, and it was what they taught Paul, that allowed him to train the Fremen up to such a high level of skill in fighting.
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Mmm a lot of that is true but *wiggles hand* more than personal skill Paul also had training in directing forces and organizing campaigns. The fremen knew how to raid and ambush but maybe not much more than that? Books were kind of unclear beyond talking up Pauls training.

The fremen where already stupidly deadly in a fight. Without any training from Paul they were more than capable of killing Sardukar. They were very interested in Jessica and Paul's unarmed fighting skills though why they hadn't developed a style of unarmed combat of their own at some point? No idea. Or it could be argued that the basics of the BG training made Paul and Jessica superior fighters and the fremen want that training. But they have reverend mothers already sooooo…. I don't know.

Really the adio book for dune is 21 hours and I'm fairly certain the book could have been longer if a lot of vague items got properly clarified.

On the Emperor deciding to get rid of the Atreides the strength of their forces was a contributing factor but prior to going to Dune Leto had made himself something of a party leader. a lot of great houses looked to him and followed his lead though we never get precise details about that.

The Emperor's Sardukar are good enough to take the houses apart one by one but if the houses joined forces? Superior training and skill can only help so much before numbers win the day. So Leto represented a collection of political and personal power which the Emperor was not happy about.
 
It may be that your audiobook edition edited out the bit where Leto tells Paul that the expensive tutors he'd had had been giving him pre-mentat training, which the mentat candidate is not supposed to be told is happening until the basic capabilities are developed.

The idea was that the Atreides faction would be led, on Paul's accession, by a mentat-duke and thereby be even more effective.

That would explain both why the Emperor was particularly prone to view-with-alarm where Atreides movements were concerned and why Paul turned out to be so effective as a war leader. He was a living computer with a ducal education in warfare and statecraft who went on to become prescient during his stay on Arrakis. Which, yeah, that'll do it.

That Bene Gesserit shenanigans basically handed him a buckshee army of religious fanatics who saw him as the Coming Saviour certainly didn't hurt.
 
ConsiderableHat said:
It may be that your audiobook edition edited out the bit where Leto tells Paul that the expensive tutors he'd had had been giving him pre-mentat training, which the mentat candidate is not supposed to be told is happening until the basic capabilities are developed.

The idea was that the Atreides faction would be led, on Paul's accession, by a mentat-duke and thereby be even more effective.

That would explain both why the Emperor was particularly prone to view-with-alarm where Atreides movements were concerned and why Paul turned out to be so effective as a war leader. He was a living computer with a ducal education in warfare and statecraft who went on to become prescient during his stay on Arrakis. Which, yeah, that'll do it.

That Bene Gesserit shenanigans basically handed him a buckshee army of religious fanatics who saw him as the Coming Saviour certainly didn't hurt.
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Honestly with how much the books focus on the prescience and the Kwisatz Haderach bit I tend to forget the mentat training, which we don't see a lot of and… ok how exactly did he complete his mentat training on the run? Did Jessica know how to continue it because the BG training is not the same as mentat training.
 
Been a while since I read it, but IIRC the trainee isn't told they're being trained until it's self-sustaining and they're at a point where they basically become a full-fledged mentat on their own.

I'd check back on my copy of the book, but one of the nephews borrowed it last year and I suspect that's the last I'll see of it.

A look at one of the fan wikis - best I can do with a quick web-rummage - says Paul made the necessary self-upgrade after the first escape from the Harkonnens, and the only contribution I can recall Jessica making was making him review primer-level BG training with her.
 
Ok so if any of you have read Cradle… imagine you're the Reaper and you duck into this weird iteration outside of Abidan control. Mostly on a lark because your job sucks and you're depressed and you want a distraction.

You get attacked by a lone space whale. But you're the Reaper, so you kill the thing. And no one can bitch because it attacked first and it's not like this is an Abidan controlled iteration anyway.

On a lark you modify the corpse and set it loose to covertly fuck up others of its kind. But you also rebuild a few shards from the ground up to imitate how cradle advancement works for their host.

You see where this is going right? So Taylor gets a path personally designed by the Reaper to give it's recipient a chance of maybe possibly killing a space whale. It's not a good chance but it's something. The better option would be for the recipient to travel their path to the end. Grab everyone they can carry and flee for Abidan controlled space.

Enter Taylor. Now it's the Reaper so a scythe for her weapon would be on point but I'm pretty sure he would find that gauche so I'm thinking great axe for that executioner connection. Then either Death or Destruction aspect for that whole Reaper connection and guiding the recipient to an Icon that might make the fight possible but I'm having trouble nailing down the path. Pure death or destruction are a possibility. A pure Death path would be excellent motivation to advance given it would be liable to kill her If she doesn't advance to the point of being basically immortal. And both lives he lived he went for a pure path so… maybe?

Mixed paths seam like more fun but a pure path would be in character and so utterly devastating with either Death or Destruction soooooo…. Bleagh that might really be the best solution…. Hmmmm
 
Honestly, I think having the entire cultivation path spoon-fed to her takes away a lot of the interesting bits in cultivation.
She's not choosing what suits her, she's not picking a remnant, she's not seeking out resources or knowledge, etc...
It would come out to be the same as a growing Trump power.
The story would be a countdown until her power grows enough to crush the opposition.


It's a common issue with Xianxia crossovers.
If they try to do anything but the most shallow interaction, they either end up running out of advancement, or they end up bashing everyone in the world too stupid to use the energy all around them.
 
Blaflaix said:
Honestly, I think having the entire cultivation path spoon-fed to her takes away a lot of the interesting bits in cultivation.
She's not choosing what suits her, she's not picking a remnant, she's not seeking out resources or knowledge, etc...
It would come out to be the same as a growing Trump power.
The story would be a countdown until her power grows enough to crush the opposition.
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You're not wrong but I mean… how much of Yerin and Lindon's paths were handed to them? All of Yerin's techniques up until the end of the uncrowned King tournament. All but one of Lindon's black flame techniques. His Pure path was a lot more flailing about with Dross until they worked something out, Yerin definitely needed some help and revisions after she goes super Sayin fusion. And all the sage techniques required personal touches for sure.

Mercy's path was literally handed to her and Ziel was part of a sect so we know he was following the same oath as everyone else.

Really if she follows a path all the way through the Lord realm and then has to figure out sage techniques on her own I'd say that's not too different from canon at all.
 
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That's a really interesting idea, kinda curious about how he'd react when he finds out that someone actually ended up stumbling upon it and possibly ascending. Maybe it can be a means through which he tries to recruit people on the sly while still doing his duties.

Taylor having a power like that would be really cool and insane.
 
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Fencer said:
how much of Yerin and Lindon's paths were handed to them? All of Yerin's techniques up until the end of the uncrowned King tournament. All but one of Lindon's black flame techniques.
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It feels a bit different having people hand it to you piece by piece, vs having a package delivered to "current resident."
Another way to do it would be to have a "Cursed Trigger" and anyone who gets it dies, then Taylor gets it and makes it work somehow.
Anything to make Taylor an active participant in mastering it, as opposed to just the person that got it.
 
Blaflaix said:
It feels a bit different having people hand it to you piece by piece, vs having a package delivered to "current resident."
Another way to do it would be to have a "Cursed Trigger" and anyone who gets it dies, then Taylor gets it and makes it work somehow.
Anything to make Taylor an active participant in mastering it, as opposed to just the person that got it.
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I see where you're coming from but that would imply the reaper does substandard work. And that's an instant fail. If it's a pure death path it could be cursed in the sense that idiots run off and use it heavily then die because they didn't take the time to master their basics and death paths are not forgiving when it comes to mistakes. Which would play into what I already had down and could be another reason for Taylor to blitz through advancement. Advancement is her only way to stay ahead of the damage her path does to her and it's an extra incentive for her to blitz her way to sage or herald since sages are stupidly long lived and heralds are functionally immortal.
 
Fencer said:
Ok so if any of you have read Cradle… imagine you're the Reaper and you duck into this weird iteration outside of Abidan control. Mostly on a lark because your job sucks and you're depressed and you want a distraction.

You get attacked by a lone space whale. But you're the Reaper, so you kill the thing. And no one can bitch because it attacked first and it's not like this is an Abidan controlled iteration anyway.

On a lark you modify the corpse and set it loose to covertly fuck up others of its kind. But you also rebuild a few shards from the ground up to imitate how cradle advancement works for their host.

You see where this is going right? So Taylor gets a path personally designed by the Reaper to give it's recipient a chance of maybe possibly killing a space whale. It's not a good chance but it's something. The better option would be for the recipient to travel their path to the end. Grab everyone they can carry and flee for Abidan controlled space.

Enter Taylor. Now it's the Reaper so a scythe for her weapon would be on point but I'm pretty sure he would find that gauche so I'm thinking great axe for that executioner connection. Then either Death or Destruction aspect for that whole Reaper connection and guiding the recipient to an Icon that might make the fight possible but I'm having trouble nailing down the path. Pure death or destruction are a possibility. A pure Death path would be excellent motivation to advance given it would be liable to kill her If she doesn't advance to the point of being basically immortal. And both lives he lived he went for a pure path so… maybe?

Mixed paths seam like more fun but a pure path would be in character and so utterly devastating with either Death or Destruction soooooo…. Bleagh that might really be the best solution…. Hmmmm
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So the Reaper is mega depressed and trying desperately to shake things up to make things better. Him doing this on a lark would make sense since maybe it would end up helping out the Iteration so he wouldn't have to Reap it and so maybe the preson who gets it could end up being someone that he could recruit for his Reapers idea.

I think that Death/Destruction would make sense since it's kinda his jam, question is would it work purely on Cradle mechanics and how exactly would the path work? Also how would Taylor know how to train and grow would it be included in the starter package and QA?

Actually now that I think about it if the Reaper made a shard it would be a mixture of a shard and remnant and remnants of Sacred Artists allow the user to draw skills and knowledge from itself. This could be one of the Reaper's attemps to solve the Abidan's manpower issue.

Fencer said:
You're not wrong but I mean… how much of Yerin and Lindon's paths were handed to them? All of Yerin's techniques up until the end of the uncrowned King tournament. All but one of Lindon's black flame techniques. His Pure path was a lot more flailing about with Dross until they worked something out, Yerin definitely needed some help and revisions after she goes super Sayin fusion. And all the sage techniques required personal touches for sure.

Mercy's path was literally handed to her and Ziel was part of a sect so we know he was following the same oath as everyone else.

Really if she follows a path all the way through the Lord realm and then has to figure out sage techniques on her own I'd say that's not too different from canon at all.
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Most paths are preselected and then adapted, it would just need to be made so Taylor would have the ability to use them and then eventually learn how to adapt it.

Fencer said:
I see where you're coming from but that would imply the reaper does substandard work. And that's an instant fail. If it's a pure death path it could be cursed in the sense that idiots run off and use it heavily then die because they didn't take the time to master their basics and death paths are not forgiving when it comes to mistakes. Which would play into what I already had down and could be another reason for Taylor to blitz through advancement. Advancement is her only way to stay ahead of the damage her path does to her and it's an extra incentive for her to blitz her way to sage or herald since sages are stupidly long lived and heralds are functionally immortal.
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I'd imagine that the Shard/creation would have some safeguards and give Taylor information on why advancement is important.
 
ArcanaVitae said:
Also how would Taylor know how to train and grow would it be included in the starter package and QA?
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Simplest solution would be for the whole thing to come with pre recorded messages like his marble in canon. Though if you wanted to spice it up it could come with a basic version of dross? Like not exactly like dross, but same concept.
ArcanaVitae said:
Most paths are preselected and then adapted, it would just need to be made so Taylor would have the ability to use them and then eventually learn how to adapt it.
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That wouldn't be very complicated. Here's a ruler, forger, weapon enforcer, and striker technique here are some options to personalize them. Develop four techniques before reaching overlord master them. Go from there.

Honestly four might even be enough for a full out combat path. Then when she gets to the lord realm and starts gunning for an icon she can start trying to add authority to an attack and mixing elements of her first four techniques. To make her own more powerful techniques. Though no more than three and honestly one might be enough think Yerin only had 5 at the end and Ziel.. Zeil? He only ever had two so that would be fine.
 
Fencer said:
Simplest solution would be for the whole thing to come with pre recorded messages like his marble in canon. Though if you wanted to spice it up it could come with a basic version of dross? Like not exactly like dross, but same concept.
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The pre recorded message of explaining hey things are really messed up and this is why I'm giving you these powers the way I am is a good idea. Having a dummy AI act as a teacher and exposition dump would help as well, it wouldn't be a proper presence but it would be able to help teach Taylor.

Fencer said:
That wouldn't be very complicated. Here's a ruler, forger, weapon enforcer, and striker technique here are some options to personalize them. Develop four techniques before reaching overlord master them. Go from there.

Honestly four might even be enough for a full out combat path. Then when she gets to the lord realm and starts gunning for an icon she can start trying to add authority to an attack and mixing elements of her first four techniques. To make her own more powerful techniques. Though no more than three and honestly one might be enough think Yerin only had 5 at the end and Ziel.. Zeil? He only ever had two so that would be fine.
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Simple can be really effective if master to sufficient levels of power and skill. Hell even with just a couple techniques she'd be more versatile then a lot of parahumans and she'd be able to munchkin it.
 
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