Fate/White Parmesan

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She feels less like an uncaring monster, and more like someone "doing what must be done". If we manage to beat her and kill Caster, I kinda get the feeling she'll just quietly withdraw from the war and go back to whatever she was doing before.
 
kinigget said:
She feels less like an uncaring monster, and more like someone "doing what must be done". If we manage to beat her and kill Caster, I kinda get the feeling she'll just quietly withdraw from the war and go back to whatever she was doing before.
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Well probably. She's not letting Caster do these things because she finds it fun or awesome, so she likely wouldn't just do it to be atrocious. But to not only let Caster do these things, but actually support her efforts, well, apparently you have a different definition of "uncaring monster" than I do. If someone murders a hundred people because they're "doing what must be done" does this motivation somehow not make them a monster? Assuming these people are for the most part innocents, which seems to be true.

Heck, you could argue that these people are suffering a fate worse than death if you'd like.
 
kinigget said:
Worse than I hoped, better than I feared. She's probably worth keeping around once we beat the stupid out of her.

Weirdly enough, I think she's starting to use us as a role model. Let's see if we can't push for that a bit harder.

If nothing else, it looks like she's doing the Magus thing of setting aside morality for the sake of a goal. I wonder...what's her wish?
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Worth keeping around? After admitting she's fully onboard with the slaughters caster has been perpetrating?

Even if her worst crime is simply allowing caster to act as she sees fit without stopping her, that's still unforgivably bad.

No way.

[x] "You have no idea what bullshit I can do to stay alive."
 
She's not "fully onboard" though. She clearly doesn't like it, but feels like she has to in order to win. I think if we give her an out, she'll take it.
 
She outright said she didn't condone what Caster does, and acted ashamed when Caster showed up. I think she does care, and cares a lot. She's just making do with the hand she was dealt. I highly doubt she got Frankenstein with a Catalyst, unless she screwed up.
 
kinigget said:
She outright said she didn't condone what Caster does, and acted ashamed when Caster showed up. I think she does care, and cares a lot. She's just making do with the hand she was dealt. I highly doubt she got Frankenstein with a Catalyst, unless she screwed up.
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Really? A remotely moral person would take the decreased chance of victory that not basically murdering innocent people in mass would give them. She's decided that she'd rather win no matter the cost. Frankly at this point it no longer matters if she feels a bit guilty, because she clearly doesn't feel guilty enough to stop murdering large numbers of innocent people.
 
Were dealing with the Moonlit World, morality is the first thing to go 90% of the time. The fact that she actually feels bad about what Caster does puts her head and shoulders above the vast majority of Magi in general, let alone Masters.

I don't think she's so far gone that we can't bring her back around.
 
kinigget said:
I don't think she's so far gone that we can't bring her back around.
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Sure! All we need to do is kill Caster, kill any remaining Dead Apostles, and leave her without the resources to continue the HGW. Then it probably wouldn't be too hard to "bring her back around." If, you know, we actually want to spend time with a person like her, which I don't.
 
Well I mean I was planning to do all that anyway

What did you think I meant by "give her an out"?
 
I mean, I know she's not letting these horrible things happen because she enjoys them, so if we take away the reason she is letting them happen, she'll probably be effectively defanged.

It's just, I don't particularly want us to hang out with a person like this. Anymore than I'd support hanging out with Olga considering what she and Assassin were up to.
 
Look at the bright side. Instead of Hinako and "Frankenstein," we could be dealing with Francesca and François Prelati. Those two actually are in it (F/SF) for the evils.
 
I have

An idea

[X] "why go through with this if you hate it so much? Is your wish really that important?"

I'm not quite happy with this, but I'm attempting to see if she wants to be better. If she does, then I say we help her with that.
 
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When do you sleep, Rabbit?

[X] "I know. But I have to try. So go easy on me."
-[] Make bedroom eyes.
 
Kini, I'm sorry, but I can't vote with you on this one. She's made her stance clear. Expedience or simplicity of action are no excuses for what she has permitted.
 
Mmm. My stance on this is that people have to want to be better before you can really help them, otherwise they either end up resenting you or rejecting your help out of hand.

:V
 
Just...try not to kill her okay? She's the one person who we can really talk to about what we're going through who will actually understand
 
Raiseth said:
Relax. Even if we wanted to, I'm pretty sure Shirou won't let us.
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Why wouldn't he? He didn't know she was Caster's Master. It's not like he has an issue with killing if someone decides to still put innocents in danger deliberately.

Also, I kind of feel the stuff about Shirou sending away Saber to do stuff alone feels like OOC behavior done to add drama or whatever.

Shirou in FSN didn't go out alone at night without Saber around, only being alone at places that were supposed to be considered neutral/safe ground like the Church, so this feels like wuthor-added behavior.
 
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wellis said:
Why wouldn't he? He didn't know she was Caster's Master. It's not like he has an issue with killing if someone decides to still put innocents in danger deliberately.

Also, I kind of feel the stuff about Shirou sending away Saber to do stuff alone feels like OOC behavior done to add drama or whatever.

Shirou in FSN didn't go out alone at night without Saber around, only being alone at places that were supposed to be considered neutral/safe ground like the Church, so this feels like wuthor-added behavior.
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He's exemplifying Hero Of Justice/Family Man Shirou traits.

For Saber staying with Rin, I have a readily available explanation: Rin is the one wearing pants in the household, so Artoria is obviously her waifu and not Shirou's. :V

I think it's partly Shirou considering his escapades a vacation from the drama Saber/Rin harem brings to his life and partly Rin being jealous if Shirou brings Saber with him and not her. She would insist to go with them too. Since she's pregnant atm, that wouldn't end well for anyone.

As for why he wouldn't want us to kill her. I dunno what to say, that's, like, his entire character, to save damsels that don't want/need to be saved.
 
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