Exploding Canon (Worm SI)

This is a good SI, you actually manage to make it a SI and not just a powertrip. You know useful shit but cant do much with it due to being the wrong person at the wrong time in the wrong place.

I appreciate the appreciation!

Exploding Canon was actually kicked off by a discussion with someone wherein I was complaining about Worm SIs always being in a position to immediately track down and successfully befriend Taylor, as if that's the only way you could be notably influential on canon. Somewhere in there one of us used "showing up as Bakuda" as an example of a SI that wouldn't be in a position to befriend Taylor but would be in a position to seriously influence canon -this is a woman whose tech was plot-critical weeks after she died- and then I latched onto it as ohmygod that's actually awesome.

Also the "I am in a story" not turning into "I create worlds for my amusement" but instead asking if your in a story, what one is it?

Edit for clarity: Just because they are in a fiction most SI assume they are in a story being written by them, when there are many other possibility they almost never consider.

Well, in most cases they assume they're in canon... but they assume they're in their own understanding of canon, which amounts to assuming they're in a story they are writing, especially since this often leads to the story lining up with their headcanon even in cases where it contradicts actual canon.

Like, canon telling us that Oni Lee's "will" or whatever is being eaten a little bit each time he cloneports because metaphysical "logic" is completely demented and not anything I would ever include in a Worm fanfic I was writing with an eye toward a coherent and sensical whole. However, it's canon -so my SI still has to deal with it being true even while thinking it's idiotic nonsense.

Whereas most people, if they shared my conviction, would've then written Oni Lee as not having that quality.

You fail in ways that seem like they could happen instead of ones that feel like they are added as a handicap.

Thanks! I've already commented in the thread that some of Bakuda's failings have been me literally writing scenes and then realizing I, as a writer, didn't consider an angle, and then running with that being an oversight instead of rewriting the scene such that Bakuda doesn't make the same oversight, so that makes sense to me.

Other things. My fuzzy memory suggest that the mind fuckery committed by the Sky-Bitch is done via telekinetic micro surgery literally reshaping your brain. All the supposed signs and symptoms are trolling and false leads.

We're not actually told how the "song" works. The closest to being told how it works is that Wildbow has said that Alexandria is immune because her cognition is offloaded to the shard ie not occurring in her physical brain, which tells us some things.

We also see in the Clairvoyant Interlude that the Simurgh is capable of subtle manipulations without even using the brain hacking per se. There's a tidbit in there about her shaping her body so that Lisa sees a shape evocative of someone being hanged, though it's not completely explicit that the Simurgh is going for that appearance. So there's layers of complexity with the Simurgh.

Merchant wrist bands: those didn't start until after Leviathan and the Merchants started allowing walk-ons. The bands signified seniority.

We don't hear about the wristbands until after Leviathan, but all we see of the Merchants prior to Leviathan is some of their capes. There's actually no indication whether they were in use prior to Leviathan or not, at least not that I recall.

Bombs: holy shit your making those things fast.

Basing that on Bakuda in canon. The rate at which she seems to churn them out in canon is nuts, and it's just not in-your-face obvious because it's happening off-screen. Which, to be fair, Wildbow is kind of terrible about having tinkers have reasonable speed anytime we're looking at them and then the instant they're offscreen it's like they're in a favorable timewarp (The Slaughterhouse Nine escaping Brockton Bay provides one of the more egregious examples), but Bakuda is particularly striking since most everything she builds is a one-use item where normally tinkers are building gear. She kind of has to have ludicrous output to have anything more than a handful of bombs at any given moment, if she produced at a more typical (on-screen) tinker pace.

Also your SI seems to be missing the blatant link between the power blocker and sky bitch appearance.

It's more that Bakuda isn't willing to make any assumptions because the Simurgh uses your assumptions against you.

While diamonds are often called a girl's best friend, nobody likes them in the form of explosively forged shards moving at supersonic velocities. :p

Hey, you can still sell them!

Once you pull them out of whatever they impacted into and clean the blood off, I mean.
 
We don't hear about the wristbands until after Leviathan, but all we see of the Merchants prior to Leviathan is some of their capes. There's actually no indication whether they were in use prior to Leviathan or not, at least not that I recall.

Technically? No, as far as I can tell..

11.3 said:
And a lot of them had these bands around their wrists. Plastic, colored, sometimes one or two, but the black guy had a lot. I remember seeing the ones on the black guy's wrist, and thinking it didn't seem like something he would wear on his own."
I coulda sworn there was a more numbers explicit case, but..
11.3 said:
Do tell."
I gave her the rundown on everything Sierra had told me. She stopped me when I got to the bit about the armbands.
"Those aren't for rank," she informed me. "But you're not wrong in saying they're like status. They're more like… boy scout badges."
"Boy scout badges?"
"From what I can gather, you get one for attending one of the Merchants' 'events'. Colors are supposed to represent what the each one was about. It translates to a kind of respect, showing you're loyal, whatever."
"I'm not sure I understand."
"And neither am I, to be honest," she replied. "And that bothers me. So in the interests of getting intel and maybe getting a lead on this missing boy of yours, do you think you could get away from your territory, tonight, to join me in figuring this out?"
"I don't want to leave just yet."
"Merchants are throwing a big bash tonight, so I doubt they'll be attacking your territory. In fact, I'm wondering if they were attacking your territory to get cash or stuff to barter at the event as much as they were responding to your claim."
"Maybe."
"And Chosen aren't a threat right now? They haven't said or done anything yet?"
"Not yet, no. Haven't run into any."
"Grue and Imp are probably going to want to wind down and go on the defensive later today. You can have one of them babysit your territory if you're worried. You have no good reason to refuse. Come on, let's go see what a Merchant's party is all about."

Since they're one per event either the Merchants have been doing these, like, daily after Leviathan hit (Why so many with 'one or two', then?) or it goes back to before then.​
 
Technically? No, as far as I can tell..


I coulda sworn there was a more numbers explicit case, but..

Since they're one per event either the Merchants have been doing these, like, daily after Leviathan hit (Why so many with 'one or two', then?) or it goes back to before then.​

They could also have back-dated them for their leadership...
 
They could also have back-dated them for their leadership...
That dude wasn't leadership? he's a punk with a couple of cronies, one possibly brand new.

Backdating them also seems out of character for Skidmark, and since they are for specific kinds of events, you'd need to invent agreed upon stories for every band 'backdated', and then you're getting into 'making up pre-Leviathan events'...
 
That dude wasn't leadership? he's a punk with a couple of cronies, one possibly brand new.

Backdating them also seems out of character for Skidmark, and since they are for specific kinds of events, you'd need to invent agreed upon stories for every band 'backdated', and then you're getting into 'making up pre-Leviathan events'...

Ehh, i should have used some extra punctuation, or emoticons, or words...
It was an utterly random guess based on nothing. I've never even read Worm, to be honest.
*shrugs*
 
Well, in most cases they assume they're in canon... but they assume they're in their own understanding of canon, which amounts to assuming they're in a story they are writing, especially since this often leads to the story lining up with their headcanon even in cases where it contradicts actual canon.
Most have the decency to at least not charge forward on assumptions about things that they know are only their headcanon, though.

(I do like what some of the ASOIAF inserts over on SB are doing - e.g. declaring that their character only has knowledge from the show even as they bring in lots of book-only elements for them to be unprepared for)
 
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Most have the decency to at least not charge forward on assumptions about things that they know are only their headcanon, though.

It... kind of doesn't matter.

Like, let me use a non-SI Naruto story I read a while back as an example.

It's a bit of a meme with Naruto fanfic to justify Naruto's poor chakra control as being a result of having SO MUCH CHAKRA, which... is honestly kind of dumb since canon is pretty blunt that this was a temporary event caused by Orochimaru's seal being layered over the Fox's seal so Naruto's chakra control isn't even that bad in canon... but the point is that's a meme. Most fanfics make me roll my eyes with this, but there was one particular fanfic that left me boggling in how it handled this.

See, in canon we get the tree-climbing exercise. Sakura does it perfectly first try, of course. Naruto slips off the tree, only getting as high as he is on pure momentum, because his iffy chakra control means he's not providing enough chakra to consistently stick. Sasuke explodes off the tree, leaving visible crater-esque destruction, because he's using too much chakra.

So then we get this fanfic where Naruto has TOO MUCH CHAKRA, and it's not presenting itself as any kind of "point of divergence" fanfic -that is, Naruto having tons of chakra and it interfering with his control is just supposed to be running off of canon, not an actual difference.

Fanfic tree-climbing exercise happens. Sakura performs exactly as in canon -perfectly. Naruto explodes off of the tree because he's using too much chakra. Sasuke slips off the tree because he's not using enough chakra.

Aaaand somehow writing this scene didn't clue the author that their headcanon that Naruto's tremendous chakra reserves are interfering with his chakra control is anti-canon. They literally reversed a canon scene on logic they think is how canon works, and this didn't show them that it's a headcanon and contradicts actual canon.

So bringing this back to SI 'fics: people have an astounding ability to invent headcanons that are the antithesis of actual canon and that they somehow believe are actual canon, not some kind of headcanon. This means that fanfics ostensibly taking the form of "The fanfic author arrives in ACTUAL CANON" pretty much universally end up as "The fanfic author arrives in PURE HEADCANON" -if for no other reason than because most authors don't double-check to see if a re-read/rewatch actually lines up with how they remember/interpreted things, and just assume their memory/interpretation is flawless.

(I do like what some of the ASOIAF inserts over on SB are doing - e.g. declaring that their character only has knowledge from the show even as they bring in lots of book-only elements for them to be unprepared for)

Progress!

I can appreciate that, just because one of my pet peeves with SIs is how the SI almost always immediately realizes (And is correct in said realization) they're in X setting even if they know that said setting has multiple continuities and/or ambiguous continuity. (If you're in Naruto, are you in the manga or the anime? If you're in the anime, are the filler arcs canon? Are the movies canon, in spite of their general impossibility??) Even ignoring the possibility of showing up in a fanfic, there's just so many settings where that could easily bite a SI in the butt, and historically in fanfics it... just doesn't.

So that's cool to hear!

(Even if I have exactly zero interest in A Song of Fire and Ice/A Game of Thrones)
 
I knew I liked you for a reason. (All of you stop looking at me like that. I tried. I tried REPEATEDLY. It's harder to get into than a nun wearing a chastity belt who just spilled a container of super glue down her pants. Couldn't do it.)
I managed by reading the first half of the first book drunk (to get past the bloody stark brats), enjoying the 2-3 book and only reading the tyrion parts in 4-5. Then I stopped too, it is just not interesting enough (Trough Sansas chardevelopment nearly got me near enough to continue, a char in GoT that actually has character growth! wow!)
Äh I will stop the derail now.
 
(Even if I have exactly zero interest in A Song of Fire and Ice/A Game of Thrones)
I knew I liked you for a reason. (All of you stop looking at me like that. I tried. I tried REPEATEDLY. It's harder to get into than a nun wearing a chastity belt who just spilled a container of super glue down her pants. Couldn't do it.)
I mean, if it's confession time I've gotta admit that I just don't get it. The whole Game of Thrones thing. I'll read the fanfics, largely because they read like pretty much every other fanfic involving a fantasy setting, but that's the limit of my knowledge on the series. Couldn't get through the first chapter, couldn't get through the first episode, and I've just defaulted on sitting back and saying "live and let live".
 
I've actually read like three-four issues of the comic book adaptation entirely because I read faster than the library can ship in books I want to read, but... yeah, I don't think I'd like the original books, going by what little of the original prose makes it into the comic.

I did actually get some insight into why people like it from reading the comics, though. The two big things that stood out to me:

-The main character is the family, not any member of the family.

This is huge, as it opens up options and in opening up options radically changes the audience's perception of the story. When Daddy is looking like he's liable to end up dead, the audience isn't going "Okay, how's Macguyver going to get out of this one, because obviously he's going to successfully do so, it's just a question of how." They're going "Wait. He could die and the story carry on. Shit! I actually like him, please don't kill him."

-Early on, at least, it's a fantasy setting that neither completely shunts aside magical/supernatural considerations nor does it have them come to the fore and completely invalidate the entire dynamic of normal human social constructions.

This one is complicated to explain exactly what I mean, but the short version is: most fantasy stories are either "Yeah, there's magic and elves and shit. You know, somewhere. Not here, because that would make the story too interesting, you see, but I assure you there is genuine magic somewhere on the same planet as the characters you're reading about." or "Forget wondering what a society looks like when it has wizards in it, wizardry is just in this setting to justify my Mary Sue roflstomping a dragon or ten!" (I could never get into the Magic the Gathering lore, for example, due to this dynamic -even if the lore has some depth to it, Planeswalkers-focused anything shifts away from culture and society and so on in favor of individuals dominating the scene)

So there's some thing the series does right that I wish way more fantasy stories imitated, definitely.

... but I don't find it terribly compelling anyway.

I like the dwarf. He's fucking fantastic. Made reading the comics worth it just for him.

Otherwise I was... generally kind of bored while reading it, yeah.
 
A third big point was pointed out for me lastly by a friend:
There are not many "designated evil" people in GoT. Oh, there are a lot of scumbags and assholes, but everyone of them has his own motivations and often enough believes he is the hero of his own story/does something good. And we are often also shown that from their PoV.
At least in the beginning the bad things that happen aren't caused by evil space aliens invading and eating humans because reasons, but because humans are acting like humans and are more interested in their little power-plays and wars instead of stocking up grain for the inevitable long winter.

Something something reverence to current news :p
 
A third big point was pointed out for me lastly by a friend:
There are not many "designated evil" people in GoT. Oh, there are a lot of scumbags and assholes, but everyone of them has his own motivations and often enough believes he is the hero of his own story/does something good. And we are often also shown that from their PoV.
At least in the beginning the bad things that happen aren't caused by evil space aliens invading and eating humans because reasons, but because humans are acting like humans and are more interested in their little power-plays and wars instead of stocking up grain for the inevitable long winter.

Something something reverence to current news :p
Joffrey. Ramsey. Roose. Gregor.
 
(I could never get into the Magic the Gathering lore, for example, due to this dynamic -even if the lore has some depth to it, Planeswalkers-focused anything shifts away from culture and society and so on in favor of individuals dominating the scene)

If it helps, the modern lore snippets tend to almost completely ignore the planeswalkers now? Like the ones they put up on the blogs, not necessarily the set arcs.

It's usually like, taking a card from a new faction and illustrating what a day in their life would be, or the origins of some legendary, or so on. Kind of nice, although the worldbuilding never really becomes cohesive from it.
 
If it helps, the modern lore snippets tend to almost completely ignore the planeswalkers now? Like the ones they put up on the blogs, not necessarily the set arcs.

It's usually like, taking a card from a new faction and illustrating what a day in their life would be, or the origins of some legendary, or so on. Kind of nice, although the worldbuilding never really becomes cohesive from it.

I was just using it as an example I know Sufficient Velocity as a whole is reasonably familiar with. There's tons of fantasy settings that are overall better examples of my point, and are just... less well-known, or are a little more subtle about the problem, or whatever. Like, the Magician series actually offends me way more than Magic the Gathering when it comes to "There's technically a setting with thought put into it and stuff, but it's mostly just a prop for my two Mary Sues to wander through. Worldbuilding? Present, but largely irrelevant to the actual narrative." but my impression is that the Magician series isn't that widely known -at least not to Sufficient Velocity.

Planeswalkers are at least a fairly clever justification for the basic dynamics of the game.

(Though it never made any sense to me that they were specifically immortal. It's a completely unnecessary trait, smacking more of Mary Sue than anything else)

A third big point was pointed out for me lastly by a friend:
There are not many "designated evil" people in GoT. Oh, there are a lot of scumbags and assholes, but everyone of them has his own motivations and often enough believes he is the hero of his own story/does something good. And we are often also shown that from their PoV.
At least in the beginning the bad things that happen aren't caused by evil space aliens invading and eating humans because reasons, but because humans are acting like humans and are more interested in their little power-plays and wars instead of stocking up grain for the inevitable long winter.

Something something reverence to current news :p

I did kind of notice that, too, out of what I read. The "just plain problematic people" tended to be less "Evil" and more "Insane, possibly good, but insane."

I didn't place it very highly as an interesting quality though, because it's a very politics-y series and politics-focused stories pretty much always end up avoiding "LOL EVUL" characters because they're not terribly practical to fit into a story about politics. The closest politics-focused stories tend to get to that is having factions that are stubborn and won't listen to reason (As in, you're offering a perfectly reasonable deal and they want more because they feel Wronged or whatever and they won't compromise even though you can't give them what they actually want), creating all kinds of problems that are unnecessary. That works as a Designated Villain for a politics story where a "lol evulz" villain just... doesn't, because politics tends to go to the wayside when you have that kind of villain as a real threat.

It's a lot more notable when a story focused on the battlin' adventures of Combat McAwesome treats foes as real people rather than the latest Awesome Boss Fight than when a politics story goes "Yo, the people you're talking to have, like, motivations and stuff you need to account for when you're talking to them and stuff."
 
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