Exploding Canon (Worm SI)

"Cauldron are stupid evil morons because they didn't think to think to do a crazy plan like that"

They were already on "path to building an army" so if it had said to do that they would have and they DID wind up getting them a clone army in the end, leaving aside that they were explicitly WINNING on the macro level until about 5 years before canon and everything started going wrong.
No, they went with a worse crazy plan that relied on taking credit for Khepri falling into their lap after not getting golden death beamed in a way they had no way to predict would happen. But no, letting the 9 kill or recruit every single tinker that provably could have each saved them a thousand steps in 'Path to recruit army of capes and hope they don't ask inconvenient questions' was an awesome plan. It's not like they could go everywhere, see everything, or wipe memories, right?

No one gives a shit how much they were 'winning'(read: too stupid to realize how much Ziz was fucking them coming and going) at some point five years in the past. By that nonsensical standard any number of thoroughly defeated factions in reality were doing A-OK.
 
I believe the author said he was ignoring WoG before.

I'm ignoring WOGs that clearly contradict canon-as-written or that I cannot find a way to reconcile with canon, unless the WOG is more coherent and sensible than what was originally written.

I'm also ignoring all the WOGs that I've never read, and since I don't obsessively stalk Wildbow, that's an ever-growing list.

Really? With that interpretation, I don't find her any worse. Just less depressed and guilty.

It takes suicide-by-Skitter over being a heinous monster, unable to stand her own actions and unable to justify them to herself anymore, and turns it into Yet Another Cauldron Plot designed to subvert justice and reinforce Cauldron's hold over the world for no deeper reason than because Cauldron believes the world can't get by without Cauldron babysitting it without the world's knowledge or permission. In particular, the part where Alexandria is "murdering" Taylor's friends goes from "If I provoke her enough, she'll kill me" to "My read on Taylor indicates she's not really that invested in her teammates, as she's not reacting all that strongly to believing they're captured/dead. So let's escalate until she does react!" What, it never crosses her mind that Taylor's low reaction might be evidence she doesn't care that much about them? Why continue the charade if she thinks Taylor isn't reacting that strongly?

On a note unrelated to Alexandria's moral integrity or lack thereof, I find that particular WOG considerably less appealing than my own interpretation because, ironically, regardless of Wildbow's insistence within the WOG that no idiot ball is called for, it demands Alexandria is holding an idiot ball. (One of epic proportion) I can buy Taylor successfully suffocating her when it's all a roundabout plan to get herself killed without the rest of the world interpreting it as a suicide attempt. I can't buy that Alexandria was doing her damnedest and most competent and got suffocated anyway -her mental processing is all-around superior (Much faster, more accurate, etc), and I'm supposed to buy that Alexandria

-didn't think to close her mouth and cover her nostrils? (This is a woman impervious to most attacks, so Taylor's bugs can't bite or sting to provoke her into opening the way)

-didn't think to fly out of Taylor's range? (It takes several minutes for suffocation to lead to an apparent death and up to forty-five minutes to actually have the brain die, Alexandria's cognition isn't actually based in her brain anyway, so oxygen deprivation wouldn't negatively impact her ability to think, and once out of Taylor's range the bugs wouldn't persist in trying to suffocate her)

which is utterly absurd. These are basic, simple measures, and Alexandria is not depicted as stupid or insanely overconfident -even in this WOG Wildbow is describing Alexandria in terms of being blindsided by misreading Taylor (Which is a dubious explanation all on its own -different people evince different strengths of response in the first place, and if Taylor being muted can blindside Alexandria than... what, Alexandria has never met someone with low affect that messes with her power's judgment? Ever? Really?) he sticks to the idea that she's a competent and not overconfident. Even invoking panic is an inadequate explanation, between how heavily implied it is that she doesn't readily panic, and the fact that panic normally provokes a flee response.

I also am expected to buy that Taylor's spiders were able to spin a web capable of cutting off Alexandria's capacity to breathe (My recollection being that they're not described as blocking the entrance to the lungs, but rather spinning a web halfway down, which would be even more ridiculous on a number of levels) in, again, something like two minutes, when it takes a spider hours to spin its web. Even invoking Wildbow's "overclocking" explanation and considering that there's multiple spiders involved is not remotely sufficient to justify that -I'm willing to shrug off most of the canon cases of this abuse because what's being spun is a simple rope-esque construct, which is something spiders can legitimately produce in a reasonable timeframe, but anything dense or complex takes time, and the mechanics of how spiders produce webbing does not lend itself that readily to stacking spiders to speed things along.

Alexandria committing suicide can explain away (almost) all the problems with the scene. The WOG's version is just... how the hell do you reconcile what actually happened with that idea? The basic idea of "Skitter offloading her emotions onto her swarm makes her harder to read" is sensible, but that doesn't remotely explain Alexandria abruptly forgetting to use her brain and/or conveniently dying of suffocation in about 30 seconds. Because real suffocation takes way too long to kill people.

The problem I have with most (honestly, all) Alexandria bash-fics, is that they do so not just by make her eviler, they usually do so in away that is opposite to her motivation, while adding a (usually sizable) dose of stupid. They make her more like a carton villian, when really, the natural progression of a darker, colder, Alexandria is more utilitarian, not randomly torturing people or such.

Honestly, I don't get why people respond with so much illogical hate towards her. Her goals are pretty much the most noble that could be, and Worm isn't a shounen manga, there was no innocent hero with a better way that solves everything forever. If I was in Alexandria's place, and didn't have meta knowledge, I would like to think that I would have the strength to follow the same path.

Well, part of the thing is that a lot of people judge morals based on outcomes. Since Cauldron's visible contribution to making the world a better place was

-Jack and shit

and in the end what saved all of humanity everywhere was primarily Taylor getting Amy to hack her brain and the events that grew out of it, an outcomes-oriented model of morality places them firmly in "Pure evil." After all, none of the terrible things they did was really all that relevant or helpful in the end.

When you look at it in terms of what they know and what they intend, the question of whether they're evil or not is a lot more complicated, and they're certainly understandable even if you consider them evil anyway.

Though it helps, in any event, that Contessa, Doctor Mother, and Eidolon all hate themselves. Makes it easier to just declare them evil and be done with it -they, themselves, agree with such a sentiment after all. (Well, maybe not Eidolon, at least not before "You needed worthy foes")
 
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Well, part of the thing is that a lot of people judge morals based on outcomes. Since Cauldron's visible contribution to making the world a better place was

-Jack and shit

and in the end what saved all of humanity everywhere was primarily Taylor getting Amy to hack her brain and the events that grew out of it, an outcomes-oriented model of morality places them firmly in "Pure evil." After all, none of the terrible things they did was really all that relevant or helpful in the end.
Well, they did contribute to the circumstances that resulted in Taylor saying the world. And without all the triggers that resulted from their actions, Kephri might not have been able to fight Scion.
 
There is one singles point that people to continue consistently overlook.

Upbringing.

Whole Cauldron existence relies upon a Cape which "civilian identity" is stone age hunter daughter.

Hell, even if you pick modern world and go by developed cities, American!Fortuna will be different even to German!Fortuna... Now imagine her being Russian, Chinese, Indian or native New Zealand?

And this is without getting in to "Thinker Syndrome" Alexandria and Contessa suffers from - two biggest minds behind whole plot.

Just saying.
 
Well, they did contribute to the circumstances that resulted in Taylor saying the world. And without all the triggers that resulted from their actions, Kephri might not have been able to fight Scion.
But since they can't predict triggers, we're back to 'throw capes at the wall and see what sticks as they explode against it'. Which if you have no other option maybe the best plan available, but when you have the S9000 showing that this clearly isn't the case, it gets a whole lot less defensible.
There is one singles point that people to continue consistently overlook.

Upbringing.

Whole Cauldron existence relies upon a Cape which "civilian identity" is stone age hunter daughter.

Hell, even if you pick modern world and go by developed cities, American!Fortuna will be different even to German!Fortuna... Now imagine her being Russian, Chinese, Indian or native New Zealand?

And this is without getting in to "Thinker Syndrome" Alexandria and Contessa suffers from - two biggest minds behind whole plot.

Just saying.

Clearly they read the evil overlord list, and failed to realize that it needs to be a five year old child from the society you are trying to take over that you run your plans past.

There's also the bit where Doctor Mother's qualifications are 'was there at the time', their top operatives are used to Contessa providing all the answers without thinking to ask if the right questions are being asked, and their two most qualified members ever are a former rampaging serial killer, and someone who quit to become a rampaging serial killer.

I try not to give them too hard a time, but then I keep getting reminded that Slaughterhouse Nine Thousand happened, and that a nihilistic jackass working out of a basement managed to do their whole plan in less than a tenth the time with nothing more than his wits, charisma, and character shields that could shrug off the Death Star.
 
Well, they did contribute to the circumstances that resulted in Taylor saying the world. And without all the triggers that resulted from their actions, Kephri might not have been able to fight Scion.

I'll allow that Door was a substantial part of how Khepri fights Scion, but... the only other Cauldron cape to substantially contribute in any noticeable way is the Traveler with the minor power that for some reason makes it so when he's sculpted to look like Eden it legit fools Scion's senses. That guy? Credit goes primarily to the Simurgh.

If Khepri could get a hold of someone, anyone who worked as an okay replacement for Door, Cauldron's contribution to Scion's defeat would really be nothing.

Jabbering about all the capes they "helped create" isn't meaningful, because their actions also cost countless (cape) lives and in general had a complicated, unpredictable impact on the world. For all we know a version of canon wherein Eden died and then Contessa quietly vanished from the story would have resulted in basically the same ending, just with Khepri tapping a different cape for Door-esque shenanigans. It's an unlikely scenario, but there's really nothing that actually proves that Cauldron was a net positive. The only credit you can give them for sure is that the situation was stacked against humanity from the start.

Clearly they read the evil overlord list, and failed to realize that it needs to be a five year old child from the society you are trying to take over that you run your plans past.

There's also the bit where Doctor Mother's qualifications are 'was there at the time', their top operatives are used to Contessa providing all the answers without thinking to ask if the right questions are being asked, and their two most qualified members ever are a former rampaging serial killer, and someone who quit to become a rampaging serial killer.

I try not to give them too hard a time, but then I keep getting reminded that Slaughterhouse Nine Thousand happened, and that a nihilistic jackass working out of a basement managed to do their whole plan in less than a tenth the time with nothing more than his wits, charisma, and character shields that could shrug off the Death Star.

There are so many reasons I think the Slaughterhouse Nine Thousand arc should never have happened.

You just added another one.
 
I'll allow that Door was a substantial part of how Khepri fights Scion, but... the only other Cauldron cape to substantially contribute in any noticeable way is the Traveler with the minor power that for some reason makes it so when he's sculpted to look like Eden it legit fools Scion's senses. That guy? Credit goes primarily to the Simurgh.

If Khepri could get a hold of someone, anyone who worked as an okay replacement for Door, Cauldron's contribution to Scion's defeat would really be nothing.

Jabbering about all the capes they "helped create" isn't meaningful, because their actions also cost countless (cape) lives and in general had a complicated, unpredictable impact on the world. For all we know a version of canon wherein Eden died and then Contessa quietly vanished from the story would have resulted in basically the same ending, just with Khepri tapping a different cape for Door-esque shenanigans. It's an unlikely scenario, but there's really nothing that actually proves that Cauldron was a net positive. The only credit you can give them for sure is that the situation was stacked against humanity from the start.
Yeah, at the end they do didn't do much. But if it wasn't for them, Taylor wouldn't have ever become Kephri.

I will admit that didn't like how Wildbow set them up as this powerfull force, making horrible sacrifices to save humanity, only for them to be completely eclipsed by the main character, with almost all their efforts ignored.
 
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Yeah, at the end they do didn't do much. But if it wasn't for them, Taylor wouldn't have ever become Kephri.

I will admit that didn't like how Wildbow set them up as this powerfull force, making horrible sacrifices to save humanity, only for them to be completely eclipsed by the main character, with almost all their efforts ignored.

Literally all Taylor needed to become Khepri was

-Queen Administrator shard

-Panacea, willing to work on Taylor's brain

-awareness of the general details of the Corona Pollentia/powers in general (to guess that Panacea could edit her brain to edit her power)

-desperation

Cauldron provided none of these. The first was a gift from Scion to her dad, who then failed to trigger. The second is a natural trigger who got over her psychological issues by spending time in the Birdcage, a location made possible by Dragon, whom is a natural trigger that's the product of a natural trigger. The information about the Corona Pollentia/power mechanics in general came from Bonesaw, of all people, who is a natural trigger that Jack Slash created, himself a natural trigger that Cauldron supposedly did nothing to assist. The desperation was, of course, provided by Scion.

Cauldron did nothing to contribute to Khepri's creation beyond helping shape the world Taylor grew up in. I can't use that credit them making Khepri, because all kinds of people contributed to shaping the world Taylor grew up in, and the people who had the most influence on Taylor... were not Cauldron. They were her parents, Emma, Winslow High... etc.

But yes, Wildbow's WOGs make it pretty obvious he intends for Cauldron to matter and to even be a net positive, and then canon completely fell on its face and you basically have to take his non-canon word for it. I dislike that myself, for all kinds of reasons.
 
Literally all Taylor needed to become Khepri was

-Queen Administrator shard

-Panacea, willing to work on Taylor's brain

-awareness of the general details of the Corona Pollentia/powers in general (to guess that Panacea could edit her brain to edit her power)

-desperation

Cauldron provided none of these. The first was a gift from Scion to her dad, who then failed to trigger. The second is a natural trigger who got over her psychological issues by spending time in the Birdcage, a location made possible by Dragon, whom is a natural trigger that's the product of a natural trigger. The information about the Corona Pollentia/power mechanics in general came from Bonesaw, of all people, who is a natural trigger that Jack Slash created, himself a natural trigger that Cauldron supposedly did nothing to assist. The desperation was, of course, provided by Scion.

Cauldron did nothing to contribute to Khepri's creation beyond helping shape the world Taylor grew up in. I can't use that credit them making Khepri, because all kinds of people contributed to shaping the world Taylor grew up in, and the people who had the most influence on Taylor... were not Cauldron. They were her parents, Emma, Winslow High... etc.

But yes, Wildbow's WOGs make it pretty obvious he intends for Cauldron to matter and to even be a net positive, and then canon completely fell on its face and you basically have to take his non-canon word for it. I dislike that myself, for all kinds of reasons.
Worm makes more sense when you realize Scion was depressed to a suicidal level and Cauldron was acting to mitigate the inevitable disaster, but because they didn't know Scion was suicidal they also didn't know how to mitigate the event.

The whole story is basically a metaphor for a more depressing version of Die Hard, where the cops are Cauldron, the Germans don't plan on stealing anything and just want to blow the whole building up, and Bruce Willis is a teenage girl with a bug complex.
 
Literally all Taylor needed to become Khepri was

-Queen Administrator shard

-Panacea, willing to work on Taylor's brain

-awareness of the general details of the Corona Pollentia/powers in general (to guess that Panacea could edit her brain to edit her power)

-desperation

Cauldron provided none of these. The first was a gift from Scion to her dad, who then failed to trigger. The second is a natural trigger who got over her psychological issues by spending time in the Birdcage, a location made possible by Dragon, whom is a natural trigger that's the product of a natural trigger. The information about the Corona Pollentia/power mechanics in general came from Bonesaw, of all people, who is a natural trigger that Jack Slash created, himself a natural trigger that Cauldron supposedly did nothing to assist. The desperation was, of course, provided by Scion.

Cauldron did nothing to contribute to Khepri's creation beyond helping shape the world Taylor grew up in. I can't use that credit them making Khepri, because all kinds of people contributed to shaping the world Taylor grew up in, and the people who had the most influence on Taylor... were not Cauldron. They were her parents, Emma, Winslow High... etc.

But yes, Wildbow's WOGs make it pretty obvious he intends for Cauldron to matter and to even be a net positive, and then canon completely fell on its face and you basically have to take his non-canon word for it. I dislike that myself, for all kinds of reasons.
Contessa? I mean, obviously that isn't the exact same thing as Cauldron, but she controlled it. Not officially, but if she said to do something, they would do it. And Contessa ran a Path to Kill Scion, and he died. My headcanon is that everything Cauldron did, all the stuff, all the mistakes, everything, is all just part of the Path that creates Taylor/Khepri and the exact set of circumstances that allows Scion to die. Well, not exactly, since PtV can't predict triggers, but once the pieces all triggored...

If you think of it, really, wasn't everything simply a pawn for Contessa? From Alexandria to the S9. Honestly, I would expect her to get more hate then Alexandria. After all, she was the one that manipulated into doing everything.
 
-didn't think to close her mouth and cover her nostrils? (This is a woman impervious to most attacks, so Taylor's bugs can't bite or sting to provoke her into opening the way)

-didn't think to fly out of Taylor's range? (It takes several minutes for suffocation to lead to an apparent death and up to forty-five minutes to actually have the brain die, Alexandria's cognition isn't actually based in her brain anyway, so oxygen deprivation wouldn't negatively impact her ability to think, and once out of Taylor's range the bugs wouldn't persist in trying to suffocate her)
I also am expected to buy that Taylor's spiders were able to spin a web capable of cutting off Alexandria's capacity to breathe (My recollection being that they're not described as blocking the entrance to the lungs, but rather spinning a web halfway down, which would be even more ridiculous on a number of levels) in, again, something like two minutes, when it takes a spider hours to spin its web. Even invoking Wildbow's "overclocking" explanation and considering that there's multiple spiders involved is not remotely sufficient to justify that -I'm willing to shrug off most of the canon cases of this abuse because what's being spun is a simple rope-esque construct, which is something spiders can legitimately produce in a reasonable timeframe, but anything dense or complex takes time, and the mechanics of how spiders produce webbing does not lend itself that readily to stacking spiders to speed things along.
You're forgetting a number of details here.
22.4 said:
She [Alexandria] got as far as the Wards HQ before she stopped and the bugs had a chance to catch up to her.

As though I'd thrown a javelin, they speared right for her nose and open mouth, the fastest moving bugs I had at my disposal, and spiders.

She was invincible, the flesh inside her throat untouchable. The flap that kept food out of her lungs kept the bugs at bay. At first. They bound themselves together, spiders fixing themselves and others to the inside of her throat with adhesive.

As strong as she was, air didn't move past the mass of bugs that filled her mouth, as theyfought to move into positions where they could block her throat. She coughed in an instinctive attempt to dislodge them.

Even with super strength, even with a diaphragm like hers, the coughs didn't remove every bug, and the greedy gasp of air allowed those who remained to find their way inside, filling her lungs. They were just as impervious inside, but the bugs arranged themselves side by side, forming a layer that blocked the flow of oxygen to the membranes of the lung itself. Spiders drew out silk, filling gaps.

If she could choke, if Leviathan saw submerging her in water as a viable tactic, if Tattletale saw fit to try to do the same, then I could drown her in insects.

The Wards were watching, realizing what was going on. Clockblocker ran, pressing a button for the alarm.

And in front of me, Tagg moved, drawing his gun. His voice was a roar, "She knows!"

A thread caught it before he could point it at me, and it fell to the ground.

With each entry that had been made into the interrogation room, barring the one where she'd used the drone in Imp's cell, I'd brought more bugs inside. Spiders, hornets, black widows, brown recluses and more.

I'd warned him. He jumped as he felt the bites. Shouted as hornets found the soft tissues of his eyes, his tongue and eardrums. Black widows and brown recluses found crevices.

Miss Militia moved too, but the silk I'd used only bound her hand, didn't serve to stop her.

"Taylor!" my dad's voice sounded so far away.

I'd promised myself I wouldn't let the bullies win again, I thought. That I'd stop the monsters.

But the thoughts sounded disconnected, false.

No, this was revenge. Something simpler than any of that.

Miss Militia raised a gun, pointing it at me, where I had my head bowed, hands still chained in front of me. My dad was shaking me, but I wasn't a hard target to hurt.

And my bugs weren't hurting her. Weren't touching my dad, or Mr. Calle, who was backed up into a corner, trying to make as much distance from me as he could.

She didn't shoot. Her gun clattered to the ground.

"Taylor!" she called out, as if she could reach me that way. "I'm not going to shoot, but you have to stop!"

"Not a promise, not an oath, or a malediction or a curse," I said, sounding calm, probably inaudible in the midst of Tagg's screaming. "Inevitable. Wasn't that how she put it? I told them. Warned them."

Alexandria, in the basement, still choking, drowning on dry land with lungs full of dragonflies, spiders and cockroaches, soared. She flew through the closed barrier in the roof, and debris showered down on the Wards who'd approached her, wanting to help but finding themselves unable.

In moments, she was out of my range, too high in the air. I wasn't sure it mattered.
Alexandria did leave Taylor's range almost immediately, and the bugs continued to suffocate her to death for an >unspecified amount of time<. I'm uncertain as to why - for some reason I had it in my head that Taylor's bugs could continue to carry out extremely simple commands while outside her range at this point, but if that's wrong, it's possible there were just too many in there. Precisely how they actually blocked the airflow isn't totally clear, but seems open to the interpretation that they used their bodies to form a blockage in the trachea and used web to fill the gaps, which seems plausible to me.

Of course,
22.4 said:
As though I'd thrown a javelin, they speared right for her nose and open mouth, the fastest moving bugs I had at my disposal, and spiders.
and
22.4 said:
With each entry that had been made into the interrogation room, barring the one where she'd used the drone in Imp's cell, I'd brought more bugs inside. Spiders, hornets, black widows, brown recluses and more.
are both transparent bullshit, insofar as there's no earthly way she got that many bugs down the throat of somebody that fast so quickly, or got all those bugs inside a crowded and sparsely furnished interrogation room with nobody noticing, but what can you do.
, Alexandria's cognition isn't actually based in her brain anyway, so oxygen deprivation wouldn't negatively impact her ability to think
This implies some fairly horrifying things about her 'death,' now that I think about it.
I'll allow that Door was a substantial part of how Khepri fights Scion
If Khepri could get a hold of someone, anyone who worked as an okay replacement for Door, Cauldron's contribution to Scion's defeat would really be nothing.
-Queen Administrator shard

-Panacea, willing to work on Taylor's brain

-awareness of the general details of the Corona Pollentia/powers in general (to guess that Panacea could edit her brain to edit her power)

-desperation
I feel like I have to object to this, on the grounds that Doorvoyant (Doormaker AND Clairvoyant, not just Doormaker) were less "a substantial part of how Khepri fights Scion" and more "absolutely essential." Khepri without the omniscience, effectively infinite range extensions, and the ability to teleport at-will anywhere in the multiverse is so massively gimped it can scarcely be called Khepri at all, and I don't believe there's any indication of any other capes that could have come close to providing those abilities. The closest off the top of my head would be Strider, and he was both already dead and utterly inadequate by comparison. Reinvigorated!Eidolon maybe, but he was a Cauldron cape and also already dead, so he's beside the point.
:facepalm: GDI Wildbow, consistency is not that hard.
Worm updated two to three times a week for almost two and a half years to reach its 1.65 million word length, and has been described by Wildbow as a largely unedited "first draft."

I still maintain that possibly the most impressive thing about it is that it manages to hang together as well as it does, considering.
 
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Worm updated two to three times a week for almost two and a half years to reach its 1.65 million word length, and has been described by Wildbow as a largely unedited "first draft."
While this is true, my issue is how he flip-flops about Cauldron between two diametrically opposed broad ideas (small, exclusive club vs giant secret Illuminati army) and doesn't seem to notice his repeated radical concept shift. Sure, it was over years, but that doesn't change the sheer degree of 'it shouldn't be that hard to hold a consistent base concept, or at least only change one direction rather than back and forth'
 
Worm makes more sense when you realize Scion was depressed to a suicidal level and Cauldron was acting to mitigate the inevitable disaster, but because they didn't know Scion was suicidal they also didn't know how to mitigate the event.

The whole story is basically a metaphor for a more depressing version of Die Hard, where the cops are Cauldron, the Germans don't plan on stealing anything and just want to blow the whole building up, and Bruce Willis is a teenage girl with a bug complex.

That's... not what Cauldron claims at all. They indicate they actually moved to prevent Jack Slash from being killed because they did, in fact, prefer the apocalypse to happen sooner rather than later, on the idea that they would lose critical mass of parahumans.

Which is utterly inconsistent with other information indicating parahumans have explosive growth as a population segment, but there you go.

Contessa? I mean, obviously that isn't the exact same thing as Cauldron, but she controlled it. Not officially, but if she said to do something, they would do it. And Contessa ran a Path to Kill Scion, and he died. My headcanon is that everything Cauldron did, all the stuff, all the mistakes, everything, is all just part of the Path that creates Taylor/Khepri and the exact set of circumstances that allows Scion to die. Well, not exactly, since PtV can't predict triggers, but once the pieces all triggored...

If you think of it, really, wasn't everything simply a pawn for Contessa? From Alexandria to the S9. Honestly, I would expect her to get more hate then Alexandria. After all, she was the one that manipulated into doing everything.

Crimson Doom already answered this, but no, that's anti-canon, and in any event it doesn't address my counterpoint: that we don't know what a world without Cauldron would look like. (Aside from some of Wildbow's WOGs that are questionable at best)

You're forgetting a number of details here.

Alexandria did leave Taylor's range almost immediately, and the bugs continued to suffocate her to death for an >unspecified amount of time<. I'm uncertain as to why - for some reason I had it in my head that Taylor's bugs could continue to carry out extremely simple commands while outside her range at this point, but if that's wrong, it's possible there were just too many in there. Precisely how they actually blocked the airflow isn't totally clear, but seems open to the interpretation that they used their bodies to form a blockage in the trachea and used web to fill the gaps, which seems plausible to me.

Of course,

and

are both transparent bullshit, insofar as there's no earthly way she got that many bugs down the throat of somebody that fast so quickly, or got all those bugs inside a crowded and sparsely furnished interrogation room with nobody noticing, but what can you do.

/shrug

I stand by my basic sentiment, that Alexandria's death is bullshit if I'm supposed to model the scenario as her being competent and not overconfident, but holds together okay if she's just making a plausible "totally-not-suicide-honest" attempt.

And no, Taylor's bugs can't perform commands outside of her control radius. It's explicitly a problem in early canon that she has to be careful about her distribution of black widows to avoid them just eating each other when she's at school. Her bugs can do stuff without her explicit attention, but only within her control radius. You can maybe try to pretend that the bugs continued to suffocate Alexandria by virtue of being webbed up, but that's pretty bullshit. The whole mass would be trying to escape and kill each other, opening up holes, and even small holes would extend Alexandria's time to in turn give her more time for the bugs to kill each other and open up more holes.

I didn't even raise the point that all the mechanics we know about Alexandria's power strongly imply that only her brain uses her oxygen supply, which, even considering the brain uses a lot of the body's resources (Literally half of your body heat comes out of the top of your head), if I guesstimate that the brain uses half the body's oxygen supply, that would still mean Alexandria would have roughly double the time she would otherwise have until suffocating. In conjunction with the fact that the reason you stop being able to move is because you need oxygen to move your body and all, and Alexandria doesn't seem to need to do that, she would also almost certainly retain full control over her body up until her shard declared her braindead.

So instead of losing consciousness after a few minutes, she'd retain full consciousness for... probably at least 10-15 minutes, and depending on whether her shard simulated brain damage within the offloaded cognition or not, she'd either suffer increasing loss of control/ability to think clearly while her body remained perfectly functional or she'd retain full mental competency right until the very instant her shard cut off her cognition. Either way, I'd lowball it as taking half an hour for her to be "dead" (And an hour and a half is completely plausible), even if I accept that Skitter's bugs are magic and inconsistent with all prior canon in their behavior.

So like I said: suicide attempt? Sure, scene works fine.

Alexandria doing her damnedest and the universe being a coherent, mechanically consistent place?

hahahahahahaha no

This implies some fairly horrifying things about her 'death,' now that I think about it.

Potentially? I basically just assume that her shard disabled the Alexandria simulation once enough brain damage occurred. There's probably other ways to model why she suffers brain death while her cognition isn't in her brain and then her body retains her powers in contradiction of all the canon information that tells us that living identities get powers, not bodies, but it's the simplest, most obvious one to me, and it's... not particularly horrifying? So I'm not sure what you have in mind here.

I feel like I have to object to this, on the grounds that Doorvoyant (Doormaker AND Clairvoyant, not just Doormaker) were less "a substantial part of how Khepri fights Scion" and more "absolutely essential." Khepri without the omniscience, effectively infinite range extensions, and the ability to teleport at-will anywhere in the multiverse is so massively gimped it can scarcely be called Khepri at all, and I don't believe there's any indication of any other capes that could have come close to providing those abilities. The closest off the top of my head would be Strider, and he was both already dead and utterly inadequate by comparison. Reinvigorated!Eidolon maybe, but he was a Cauldron cape and also already dead, so he's beside the point.

Khepri would've ignored any second-rate options that were good enough but still inferior, so her failure to pull out any second-best options doesn't actually tell us much. In Doormaker's case, when he goes down she doesn't indicate having any "good enough" ones, which is part of why I specified Doormaker in specific -he probably is far and away her best option- but even then, Khepri also loses control over most of the capes the instant the doors shut off, so she wouldn't necessarily be able to reach a backup plan cape. (Also, she kind of panics when his power fails) So... we don't actually know that she doesn't have other options.

This is also ignoring that Khepri could potentially try to get Panacea to hack someone else's brain/power to jailbreak it into "basically Doormaker/basically Clairvoyant". I wouldn't bet on her doing it successfully, but it does add a further element of ambiguity -if anybody is basically "Scion's version of Doormaker", then Panacea can potentially be used to jailbreak them into being "basically Doormaker" even in a timeline where Eden's corpse is never used for powers.
 
So instead of losing consciousness after a few minutes, she'd retain full consciousness for... probably at least 10-15 minutes, and depending on whether her shard simulated brain damage within the offloaded cognition or not, she'd either suffer increasing loss of control/ability to think clearly while her body remained perfectly functional or she'd retain full mental competency right until the very instant her shard cut off her cognition. Either way, I'd lowball it as taking half an hour for her to be "dead" (And an hour and a half is completely plausible), even if I accept that Skitter's bugs are magic and inconsistent with all prior canon in their behavior.

So like I said: suicide attempt? Sure, scene works fine.

Alexandria doing her damnedest and the universe being a coherent, mechanically consistent place?

It doesn't work either way. Ten minutes is way too long for a subconscious suicide attempt. Heck, in that amount of time Alexandria could fly to a gas station, inhale gasoline, set it on fire to burn up all the bugs and their webs, then use a shop vac to pull it all out. She could do that in less than 2 minutes. It's a plot hole plain and simple that defies any explanation.... but so what?

Since it's not even going to happen in your story due to how much events have changed, it seems absolutely pointless to argue about.
 
Potentially? I basically just assume that her shard disabled the Alexandria simulation once enough brain damage occurred. There's probably other ways to model why she suffers brain death while her cognition isn't in her brain and then her body retains her powers in contradiction of all the canon information that tells us that living identities get powers, not bodies, but it's the simplest, most obvious one to me, and it's... not particularly horrifying? So I'm not sure what you have in mind here.
The possibility that the shard didn't disable the Alexandria simulation, and the brain damage simply cut her off from her body/all sensory input. Not sure why the shard would do such a thing, but eh.
So... we don't actually know that she doesn't have other options.
I think it's fair to argue it's unlikely, on the basis that capes that powerful are extremely rare, but whatever. My point is that in a discussion of whether or not Cauldron contributed anything at all to Khepri and the defeat of Scion, it feels disingenuous to dismiss such an essential contribution on the grounds that there's a chance that they may have been able to be replaced.

Also worth noting that Cauldron did unearth essential knowledge about the cycle, the Entities, and the deceased counterpart, without which the final psychological attack couldn't have happened.

Getting them to actually share that information was a bitch and a half and they weren't the ones to actually put it to use, of course, but they did at least discover it.
 
That almost sounds like a defense of "Cauldron managed to help succeed despite itself" which is kind of amazing.

Honestly, this is seeking to me like one of those fandoms where the canon is both absorbing in drawing fan base and iffy enough on some parts to provoke large amounts of discussion. I've noticed those tends to be the ones that become giant sources of fanfic.
 
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It doesn't work either way. Ten minutes is way too long for a subconscious suicide attempt. Heck, in that amount of time Alexandria could fly to a gas station, inhale gasoline, set it on fire to burn up all the bugs and their webs, then use a shop vac to pull it all out. She could do that in less than 2 minutes. It's a plot hole plain and simple that defies any explanation.... but so what?

Since it's not even going to happen in your story due to how much events have changed, it seems absolutely pointless to argue about.

It kind of does matter, since my writing of her is driven by my interpretation of her.

I'm actually pretty agnostic on exactly how subconscious a suicide attempt it is. I can also see it being fully conscious, and hidden from everyone else. I don't lean in that direction, but it's a perfectly viable position within my interpretation.

The possibility that the shard didn't disable the Alexandria simulation, and the brain damage simply cut her off from her body/all sensory input. Not sure why the shard would do such a thing, but eh.

Ah. That would be pretty terrible, yeah. I could see the shard doing that -given the dumb clone mechanics, it might hold onto her personality to upload it if a body ever reconnects to it, with the shard for whatever reason considering it more sensible to keep her personality running than to turn it off and only turn it back on once reconnected.

I think it's fair to argue it's unlikely, on the basis that capes that powerful are extremely rare, but whatever. My point is that in a discussion of whether or not Cauldron contributed anything at all to Khepri and the defeat of Scion, it feels disingenuous to dismiss such an essential contribution on the grounds that there's a chance that they may have been able to be replaced.

That actually isn't my point. My point is that canon doesn't actually address the point in a substantive way. It may be that Taylor had no backup option for Doormaker going down, or it may be she had one and it didn't end up seeing use because she didn't think of them as a backup to hold onto if Doormaker went down. I'm not using that to say that Cauldron didn't contribute -I'm saying that this thing they contributed wasn't necessarily critical. It's likely, but we don't actually know that for a fact.

Also worth noting that Cauldron did unearth essential knowledge about the cycle, the Entities, and the deceased counterpart, without which the final psychological attack couldn't have happened.

Getting them to actually share that information was a bitch and a half and they weren't the ones to actually put it to use, of course, but they did at least discover it.

I'll admit I largely forgot to count that point, though I'll point out that Tattletale figured out a lot of the important stuff with no aid from Cauldron and probably could've stitched together the information about Eden by asking the right people -Miss Militia remembers her trigger event, and seems to have been intended to be an Eden trigger whose trigger vision was of Eden dying. No need for super-intuition, even.

(Though honestly I always assumed that Miss Militia was misinterpreting the process of spraying shards around -it wasn't until some fanfic or another assumed she was seeing Eden's death that it occurred to me that Wildbow probably did intend for this to be an early hint at Eden's existence/death)

So yeah, that almost certainly mattered, but on the other hand a version of reality where Cauldron didn't exist but Tattletale still did her thing may well have figured out that piece anyway. Maybe a heroic version of Tattletale who liked to poke teammates and ended up on the same team as Miss Militia, I dunno.
 
Actually it was because the Endbringers would have destroyed most of society by then.
On one Earth. They've had twenty plus years to set up Cauldron as divine heralds of the God Emperor Parahumans on any world they choose, and towards the time canon happened should have realized that proximity was the key to second generation triggers, making clustered living arrangements and enforced day to day interactions the replacement for the breeding programs and mass artificial insemination experiments that they should have been pushing for at least a few years before then.

Hell, transplanting starter populations of parahumans, determining how much attention Scion pays, and seeing if Endbringers occur as a result of growth in the parahuman population are things that they very much should have at least attempted. Or just kickstarting space programs on worlds not being actively blockaded by Ziz. Or basically anything other than their canon approach, which greatly resembles getting capes killed in job lots throwing them at Endbringers carelessly while paying lip service to the idea of creating a parahuman army while taking none of the steps that would make it a viable option.


I have actually had a thought which almost redeems the whole BB parahuman feudalism experiment, that the idea was to see how much outside effort by a not conflict-tarded benefactor would be necessary to maintain pockets of stability, so that they could determine how much of a world they could keep from going completely Mad Max if they managed to win Ragnarok.

Contessa? I mean, obviously that isn't the exact same thing as Cauldron, but she controlled it. Not officially, but if she said to do something, they would do it. And Contessa ran a Path to Kill Scion, and he died. My headcanon is that everything Cauldron did, all the stuff, all the mistakes, everything, is all just part of the Path that creates Taylor/Khepri and the exact set of circumstances that allows Scion to die. Well, not exactly, since PtV can't predict triggers, but once the pieces all triggored...

If you think of it, really, wasn't everything simply a pawn for Contessa? From Alexandria to the S9. Honestly, I would expect her to get more hate then Alexandria. After all, she was the one that manipulated into doing everything.

This leaves us with the idea that after Taylor as the final critical piece triggers that the canon result is the most efficient path forward(barring Endbringer interference, and Eidolon being a fucking moron). My visceral gut reaction is 'fuck that', my reasoned reaction after analysis and reflection is 'fuck that with Nilbog's dick'.


As to not being able to see triggers, take a population of 600K parahumans from the one in ten thousand figure. Presume a twenty year average cape lifespan to be super generous. On any given day, presuming the population holds steady at that number with just enough new triggers to cover attrition, 82 new conflict seeking mentally traumatized triggers are going to take Contessa's long term Paths out behind the Flesh Garden and commit unspeakable acts upon them.


Please note that this also means that a 'Good' day fighting Leviathan barely nudges more realistic weekly cape fatalities, and a TPK fighting Behemoth has about the same effect on the monthly morbid massacre menagerie. Of course you'd also think that the Yangban would be ten thousand strong by those numbers, so eh.
 
Wow, those reactions. Solitary confinement for an extended period is a form of torture, (especially for as long as it's implied it will be happening to Alexandria). Regardless of what she's done, she had good intentions and has done what she thought was best, even if it was hard for her.
Bomb girl is likey going to save her because tinkers are B.S and thus get on the truivate good side.
 
And Contessa ran a Path to Kill Scion, and he died. My headcanon is that everything Cauldron did, all the stuff, all the mistakes, everything, is all just part of the Path that creates Taylor/Khepri and the exact set of circumstances that allows Scion to die. Well, not exactly, since PtV can't predict triggers, but once the pieces all triggored...

Contessa's PtV can no longer be used against Entities after Eden noticed her. Even to recognise shards that could kill Scion.

Khepri, Panacea, Ziz and Doormaker (since we haven't seen a teleporter of that type in canon) bullied Scion to death. Good job. And Cauldron gets part props for making Brockton such a grimderp world and producing Doormaker.

Mostly by triggerspamming aka making the world an objectively more miserable place. Yeah, they mostly lucked out. QA shard could have gone to, say Greg Veder and Amy got a shard influenced by New Wave. Game over.

Really as soon as Taylor triggered their actions were neutral at best,more likely to be reducing the chances of a QA Bully-to-Death-Victory.

Is Cauldron well intentioned? Well sure. Would they like increase the net misery of groups that produced powers capable of killing Scion. You bet your ass. :wtf:

Does that make Alexandria a hated despicable character? Actually I bet its the in canon hardline smugness. But yeah, recognising Cauldron would persecute minorities isn't too far from canon Cauldron. Fate of the world, ends justifies the means, greater good ... all those chestnuts.
 
4.5
4.5

So, okay. Okay. Need to do... something about the tinkertech horror show. Before it's activated, ideally. Which is a problem since I'm out of stuff and already blew up my entire bag of stolen stuff and -you know, I might've blown up the lair when I set all that off. Might not even be an option to go back there.

Wonderful. Fucking wonderful.

I move to rub at my forehead tiredly, hit my mask. Ugh. I'm sweaty, too. Tired... hungry, now that I think about it. I'm feeling nauseous at this point, which could be any number of things that are going on. For all I know I've got some infection from one of my injuries or... whatever. Haven't exactly put a lot of effort into my health since the Simurgh showed up.

I make sure to retrieve the little red wagon of stuff I've already collected. Don't want all the effort I put into it to go to waste because I'm too derp. Then I dig around in the apartments for snacks -stuff like pop-tarts I can just open up and eat, no need to cook it or anything. I end up focusing on plainer foods for a bit, as the first chocolate pop-tart I bite into makes the nausea worse. Fortunately, plain isn't hard to come by. Unfortunately, I have trouble eating all that much, too screwed-up all around to cope with food particularly.

After I've spent a few minutes recuperating, I add some snacks to the wagon, and then make my way to the rooftop to scout my surroundings. Maybe I'll spot a workable hideout while I'm up there, and if nothing else figuring out where the phasing jerks are most concentrated is a worthwhile benefit.

As a result, I get to see the tinkertech device have... something done to it. Like an inverted version of one of the phase zombies triggering its effect? Huh. Thank everything. I... didn't actually have any new ideas for what to do. I'd hoped food and a few minutes rest might help me think, but no, I've had no new ideas.

I start looking around, trying to make a determination for where to go from here, but the Simurgh catches my eye: it begins ascending, quite rapidly at that.

I stare at it until long after it's become such a small point in the sky that I'm not sure I'm not imagining it still being visible.

… really?

That was... anti-climactic. I guess it considered itself foiled now that its tinkertech plan was foiled? (Or the device's true goal accomplished, but, ugh, fuckin' Simurgh. Let's just... not go there) I... well, I'd not dared hope it would get killed here, not really, but I was expecting more fanfare? There's not even cheering or anything from people that I can tell.

Then I remember my suspicion that once the Simurgh leaves things will get really bad, since for some reason most of the trapped people seem to be lying low.

Which means I need to rush to find a lair.

Goody.

I look around, but nothing jumps out at me as an obvious... Best Buy or Walmart or whatever. Gotta be something somewhere, but I'm not seeing anything from this rooftop. So instead I head back indoors to retrieve my little kid's wagon of stuff and then go outside with it and just... wander. Which is a fucking terrible plan, but I'm not in any condition to come up with a better plan. Too tired, too sick, too everything.

The initial few minutes are kind of peaceful. With no looming Simurgh, no aerial battle as capes try to drive it off, etc, it's just... quiet, aside from distant screams and other far-away signs that things aren't so peaceful. But so long as they're distant and don't sound like they're getting closer, I can mostly ignore them. Not like there wasn't that kind of stuff going on when the Simurgh was around. I just didn't pay it much attention is all.

God there are a lot of bodies, though. I'm not looking forward to these rotting and turning the place into a giant pit of disease. I'm going to need to try to do something about that, and hopefully other people will deal with it -not via cannibalism, that's not how you control corpse-based disease hazards. Fortunately, this is America, so proooobably basically nobody is sufficiently psychologically comfortable with the idea of "food doesn't actually just come from a grocery store fairy" for that to be a problem. On the other hand, modern people seem to be bad about underestimating disease, which makes no fucking sense to me but whatever. Have to worry that Brockton Bay's survivors won't think to torch the corpses... even without Simurgh interference making people crazy and/or stupid.

I should probably start working on plans to combat disease once I'm set up and defensible. Also need to keep in mind the potential for rotting corpses to contaminate any water source I end up using. Even piping isn't necessarily safe, so if the water systems are still functioning for some reason, that won't automatically mean that the water is a good idea to use.

The longer I walk the more I hear signs of other people skulking around. None of the screaming lunatic types, not yet, and thankfully most people are... terrible at stealth, frankly. Makes it easy for me to sneak past where possible, even with the wagon making noise as I drag it.

The first time someone spots me in spite of my efforts has me tense, uncertain how I'm going to defend myself. No tools at all, no time to make anything. It ends up being a moot point -they slowly back away and duck out of sight, clearly scared to confront me.

Oh yeah. I am a costumed person, so obviously a parahuman, one most people aren't familiar with.

I'm not willing to just trust in this, though. For all I know the Simurgh has hacked a bunch of people to go ballistic if they see me. I can't actually expect reasonable behavior -especially since there's the phasing, exploding zombies, which are clearly not concerned with personal survival and not interested in rational discourse. And they're all infectious, so unless some factor I'm unaware of limits their potential to spread, it really shouldn't take all that long for most of the remaining population to be reduced to just the zombies.

Kind of wishing I'd offed the originator when I had the chance. I could've done it, would've missed out on testing a bomb type on the Simurgh, but... ugh. Risking myself short-term in hopes of long-term gains isn't so good a strategy when I can't just load a save. Not much use to going for a better future if you don't have a future. Need to work on that habit.

To be fair, I wasn't expecting an exotic plague...

Ugh, whatever.

I continue to skulk around the city, trying to not look as nervous as I am, increase the likelihood of people interpreting me as a Scary Cape, Don't Mess With, rather than as a Scared Cape, Kill While Still Vulnerable. It seems to work okay, or at least other people are disinclined to mess with me for some reason.

When capes occasionally fly overhead, I try to be inconspicuous without looking like I'm trying to do that. I find myself wondering how much longer that's going to keep happening. At least Alexandria isn't on my case again. That was not fun, and I still worry Contessa will step through and end me for having removed a chunk of Alexandria's leg, no chance of doing anything because fuck you PtV is dumb bullshit. Fucking hate the idea of existing in a world Contessa exists in. Hopefully the Simurgh dust is shield enough. I mean, that would be kind of dumb, and there's that "models" thing, but I can hope. Would be kind of ironic, I think. Somehow. Okay maybe not, I'm tired and just... ugh.

Then a metal dude turns a corner, spots me, and starts jogging at me. Fuck.

I turn and dart off to one side, but I stumble when the motion reminds me of the wagon I'm dragging by virtue of some of the stuff slewing its way out of the thing. Shit. I need as much of this stuff as possible.

Metal dude calls out, "I'm just here to talk!" I snort, because yeah right, and try to find a balance between speed and stability of the wagon while fleeing. Then he yells, "I don't tire, you know!"

… shit.

I pull to a stop and watch him, backing away a little when he gets closer than I'd prefer. I want some room to flee if he lunges at me. To my surprise, he comes to a halt once I start backing up. Usually people try to match me, completely negating the point of backing away from them.

Disgruntled, I bite out, "What."

Very seriously, he says, "Oni Lady-" Oh come fucking on "-I'm here to deliver a message to you."

Wait. What?

Slowly, not at my best and just plain puzzled, I say, "That doesn't make sense."

He shrugs, and there's a brief metal-on-metal screech, which confuses me because other than the muted clanking as his feet have hit the (Simurgh dust-coated) ground, his movement has been no louder than a flesh-and-blood human. Then he says, "I volunteered, if that helps any." After a pause he adds, "I'm also as safe from the Simurgh's plots as you can get. Safer than even a drone would be."

I'm about to say it doesn't when a glowing woman, flying below rooftop height, comes into my line of sight and very obviously spots us and heads our way. My heart rate picks way up again, because I recognize her from earlier -it's her of the DNA beams, Purity. I'm basically helpless against her, and I wouldn't want to go up against her with bombs. Running won't help. She'll just kill me. Metal man here is probably fucking useless as even a distraction.

Which leaves talking to the racist who... oh god. I think she's been here the whole fight.

I feel more fucked than I have at any point tonight, which feels faintly... unfair? I stood up to Alexandria and attacked the Simurgh and have repeatedly pissed off Lung and had to deal with Coil's hax and I'm pretty sure I'm going to die to a character who was barely relevant to canon, however powerful she might have been. Not even one so little covered that the lack of information on them is what gets me killed. Just... wrong place, wrong time.

Metal dude finally notices that I'm not looking at him, but past him, or maybe notices Purity's approaching glow. Whatever the case, he stops with trying to talk bullshit at me and turns to face her. To my surprise, he very calmly nods once she lands nearby and says, "Ma'am."

She demands, "Where is my son." without bothering to really acknowledge him.

I shift uneasily, but the metal guy holds out a hand in a handshake (Purity is surprised, I think, though it's hard to tell with her glow up. I think I catch her recoiling a little, anyway) and says, "I'm Weld, here to help. You'll forgive me for not knowing who your son is, miss?..."

My brain finally goes Oh. Metal guy. Weld. Duh. while Purity introduces herself seemingly reflexively, including accepting the handshake. She shakes herself, regains her focus for a moment, and I consider edging away while their attention is on each other, but I don't think I'm remotely enough of a ninja to sneak the wagon away and I'd probably fuck up even if I abandoned the wagon and ugh. Once she's introduced herself, Purity's face twists up, and she says, "Please, they've already killed my precious daughter, I can't lose my son too."

Weld claps his hands together with a clink and magnanimously says "Well ma'am, the PRT will do everything in its power to ensure he's safe."

Purity goes very still when he says the PRT and now I start edging away from Weld because I think I know where this is going.

She vaporizes him.

It... takes a while for him to be reduced to a metal skeleton, with him first trying to escape the beam, failing, and then moving to slam into Purity, but she just flies into the air and keeps the beam focused on him. The beam runs down after a minute, quiet enough for me to hear her screaming abuse at his still-standing skeleton, but I've been backing away this whole time and take the opportunity of her starting the beam back up to take things at a run, hoping that either the noise will cover me or her crazy will cover me. Or both. Both works.

Fucking hell, I need a place to hide. And sleep.

It occurs to me that just earlier I was thinking to myself that I need to stop trying to optimize my future by taking risks with my present, and the fuck am I doing? Wandering around, trying to find ~the perfect hideout~ while unarmed and burdened by this wagon of shit I do, admittedly, really actually need... but still. What I can and should do is find a short-term place to hole up, get some sleep, eat, tinker, and then go looking for a more long-term hideout when I'm rested and armed.

Once I'm a block or so away from Purity and have broken line of sight, I duck into pretty much the first apartment-type building I find -the door thankfully open- and make my way to... the second floor, I decide. First floor is too convenient to potential looters, but I really just need to get sleep, so I shouldn't go hiding on a higher floor. Takes too long, takes too much energy, and also anybody trying to hide has good odds of selecting the top floor for maximum distance from the ground floor entrance, so my attempt to find a place to sleep might turn into a fight I'm not ready for if I do try to go to the top.

So I go to the second floor, close the door of an abandoned apartment quietly, and go to lay down in... the kitchen is what I end up using, just because I don't want to go to the bedroom, too obvious, and I can sleep hidden from the door, using the kitchen thingamabob as a visual barrier. It takes a long time to fall asleep, probably in part because I'm half-expecting to never wake up again if I fall asleep under these circumstances.

Still, I eventually drift off...

--------------------------------------------------------------------​

When I wake up, I feel like crap. Not exactly surprising. After a second I wake up enough to wonder if I was woken by something in the building, rather than just having gotten enough sleep, and I tense up and listen in. I can hear... something moving, somewhere. Having difficulty placing direction and nature. Not bugs. Human? Might be a dog, though it's an unusually quiet dog if it's a dog. I'm not thrilled at the idea of it being a dog. Then again, I'm not thrilled with the idea of it being a human either. Well, mostly I'm worried about the possibility of a parahuman, but while I've gotten some sleep now and feel less crap than I did earlier, I've not actually got gear. An unpowered human with a baseball bat could still kill me pretty easily.

I sit up as quietly as I can, trying to triangulate the noise by moving my head back and forth. It takes me a minute to remember that this is some kind of apartment building and this is basically guaranteed to do nothing except confirm the sound is coming through the door. Which it is. Shock.

It takes me a minute to remember where my pile of crap is in this apartment. My initial impulse is to start pulling stuff from it and get me tinkertech, but I hesitate before actually committing to that when it occurs to me that I need to be careful and not make noise and I struggle enough with the tinker fugues I can't really trust myself to actually pull that off. Maybe if I was faster that wouldn't be a concern, but it takes me a couple minutes to make even a quick, simple bomb. That's too slow if there's somebody wandering around with a gun. "When seconds count, the cops are only minutes away," only replace 'the cops' with 'my next tinkertech device.'

Iffy plan.

I've been continuing to listen while thinking, and there's someone talking. Two people, in fact, which is sort of reassuring. One person talking to themselves would be a lot more likely to be a deranged lunatic who cannot be reasoned with. Two people implies they're at least capable of cooperating and communicating with each other. Which... doesn't prevent them from having been reprogrammed to hunt and kill me in specific.

Still. Probably less screwball.

I can't make out actual words, but I can work out tone. They're cautious in a casual sort of way. Like, they're not specifically expecting anyone to hear them, but they're trying to keep their voices down on general principle. Not quiet enough, in my opinion, but I've run into worse. I think they're scavenging? I'm periodically hearing... rustling, or clanking, or something. Stuff running into other stuff. Loading a bag? A box? Can't work it out. I'm... pretty confident they're not intending to stay here, though. Might be wrong.

Doesn't mean it's safe for me to just wait them out, though. If they come in here and attack me, I'm basically fucked.

Carefully, carefully, I move to go looking for weapons. I'm sort of hoping to find a loaded pistol somewhere, but even just something to hit people with would be a big improvement. I wince a little at every sound I make. I'm quieter than most people, but I've never achieved the total silence I want. I push a bedroom door open, wincing at the tiny creak it make-

-and that's when Oni Lee appears behind me and slits my throat.

Okay, not exactly. It's what he tried to do, but my costume's neck piece is some kind of uncomfortable rubber tubing that's tough enough the knife didn't reach my flesh at all. Which itself indicates he wasn't using the mono-molecular knife for whatever reason (Lost it?), thank god.

I have an impulse to pull a Taylor and drop to the ground and play dead. I dismiss the impulse because no, that's fucking stupid. Shadow Stalker is an idiot for falling for that in canon -if you slit someone's throat, they don't drop like a sack of potatoes and go silent. They bleed all over the place, they make horrifying sounds as air tries to go in and out of a hole in their throat that's spraying blood as well, and they're probably going to be flailing until they're weak from blood loss or asphyxiation. As far as I know, you only just drop and stop moving if your heart or brain are destroyed. Oni Lee's done this a million times, he's got to know better.

So I reject that as a dumb plan with barely a moment's thought and go for trying to smack him with an elbow. I technically succeed, but there's abruptly another Oni Lee in front of me going for a stab so said success is pretty pointless. I try to sort of twist so the new Oni Lee is stabbing the old Oni Lee, but he's too canny for that and the knife smoothly cuts through one of the straps of my armor. Ooooh shit. I kick out at new Oni Lee as old Oni Lee collapses into ash behind me, but new Oni Lee is apparently already old Oni Lee because quite abruptly a body is landing on me from above, knocking me to the floor, pinning me, and calmly starting to cut at my armor's weak points.

Oh shit oh shit oh shit.

Emergency measures! Use words!

"I thought we were on the same side or something?" I go for laconic. Not sure how well it works.

Oni Lee grunts. To my surprise, this is followed by a real response. "You are a traitor. You will die." Okay, plan: Talk At Him is a bust.

Distantly, I can hear the two people I heard earlier scrambling to get away. No idea what they think they're hearing, but apparently they want nothing to do with it. I try to roll over, but Oni Lee blocks that, because of course he does. I try to kick at him, but this is completely the wrong position to put power behind such a kick. (Though to my surprise I have the flexibility for my feet to make contact with his back, briefly) I abruptly relax, collapsing to the floor, but Oni Lee rides it out with an unimpressed grunt.

Then my armor finally gives way and that causes Oni Lee to loose his balance for a moment and I push off the ground and he falls over and for a second I'm thinking I'll run but then I remember this is Oni Lee and instead I lunge for him, he's already rolling to his feet, I jump and slam into his back and throw my right arm around the front of his head to cover his eyes and he starts slashing at the arm but the armor is taking it and I get my other arm around his throat and he's falling forward toward the ground and I think he's trying to cause me to be launched over him but I just tighten both of my grips and we hit the ground and Oni Lee makes an unpleasant sound as my arm around his throat digs in and he's made a mistake he can't cut at me anymore, the knife went skittering away and his arm made an even more unpleasant sound.

I'd sag in relief except I still need to kill him. (Why isn't he exploding on me? It's the obvious thing to do, so why isn't he? Shit) I'm not sure what he's trying to accomplish at this point, but he's moving oddly underneath me -ohshit he's trying to get his legs under him, he can jump like that, I use my newly-discovered flexibility to swing my lower body up and back and then pull my lower body back down so it slams into him and he staggers, one leg slipping off to one side, and his hands are starting to clutch convulsively at my arms and he's making these really ugly choking sounds and he's still trying to get his legs underneath him so I repeat the slam from earlier, and he... does something, but I think he's too weakened because nothing comes of it that I can tell so I think he failed.

My arms are sore by the time he slumps. I'm not willing to assume he's actually unconscious, though. He's way too skilled for me to assume that, and I don't actually have any real experience or knowledge when it comes to this kind of stuff. So, rather awkwardly, I maintain my lock over his throat and eyes and awkwardly push us both over toward where his knife has ended up. This takes... entirely too long.

Once there, I experimentally move my left arm away from his throat. Just a bit. No reaction. I hesitate, still half-expecting a trick, but finally bite the bullet and lunge with my left hand for the knife. My heart rate spikes when Oni Lee moves, but then I realize it's just his body settling, not conscious motion.

Then I slit his throat.

(This is not nearly as smooth or easy as it sounds, and it's utterly disgusting)

I keep his eyes covered with my arm, glance around. Bag, paper bag, abandoned on the kitchen floor. I drag his bleeding body over, and awkwardly make the exchange, bag going over until it covers the upper portion of his face and then arm being removed. Then the bag goes the rest of the way down.

Then I breath a sigh of relief. He's probably not dead-dead yet, but he will be shortly, and even if he wakes up before he dies, blood loss should prevent him from getting the paper bag off.

… when I was plotting how to kill Oni Lee, this is not at all how I thought it would go.

Now that the whole thing is over, I realize I'm... feeling almost human. I must've gotten a decent amount of sleep after all.

I lock the front door and start tinkering.

----------------------------------------------------​

All right, now I'm armed and ready to take on threats on my way to finding a place to lair long-term. A dozen relatively standard fragmentation grenades, one black hole bomb, three freezing bombs, and two bombs that temporarily... reverse time? That can't possibly be what they'll actually do, but I still have a conviction it's what they'll do. I made them while thinking I wanted some less-than-lethal options for if combat gets too close, so presumably they're safe for me to drop on top of myself. Either that or my shard has no idea what I wanted and I'll die if I try that.

That done, I find a mirror and more closely examine what's been done to my costume. It turns out what I've lost is an outer layer of stiff, thick body armor that I'd thought was more directly integrated with the under-layer of more flexible stuff, but no Oni Lee cutting at stuff separated the two. Closer examination of the arms and legs reveals they have a broadly similar setup, and they haven't lost their outer layer of stuff in the combat, which is probably why he couldn't cut up my arms. Kind of worrying that he already knew what his knife would be able to cut through and what it wouldn't, though. Makes me think he'd been thinking about killing me for a while. The Simurgh attacking might have prevented him from successfully killing me, because it wouldn't have been remotely this half-assed if he'd done it under non-Endbringer circumstances. Probably just one day I'd have gone to sleep and not woken up. (Or woken up amid an explosion)

Happy thought, right? Right. (Should I be grateful to the Simurgh? Would it even care?)

Okay! Time to explore!

----------------------------------------------------------------​

Okay, wow, that wall went up surprisingly fast. I mean, it's clearly not done yet, but it's already taller than a single-story building, mostly. I know it is, because I can see some single-story buildings nearby it, which it is towering over.

I'm going to assume cape involvement and move on with my life.

In the time I slept, a lot of chaos seems to have happened. There are more bodies littering the streets than there were earlier, a lot of buildings have been broken into and looted -commercial buildings seem hit hardest- and to my surprise I'm seeing people moving in groups. Armed groups. Some of them seem to have already made symbols: one group, for instance, has impromptu armbands depicting a red circle with a blue line through it, with the same image on a makeshift flag carried by the center member of the group. That particular group tightened up and eyed me warily when I spent too long looking at them in interest, so I moved on, but they're not the only group to do that.

Post-Simurgh politics?

Naturally, one of the groups I run into is a bunch of skinheads -some of whom have quite obviously been shaved recently, not to mention incompetently- who have stopped bothering to pretend to hide that they're E88 gang members. Or maybe just ideologically aligned, given none of this particular group has any guns. They sneer, do stuff I suspect is supposed to be sexually evocative, and otherwise indicate they're coming for me and are going to do terrible, awful things to me.

I hold up one of my bombs, and the group visibly deflates. Oh, they jeer and sneer, but now they're moving away, and nervously glancing at it while trying to look like they aren't.

It could be considered irony that the group I run into that is a problem is actually a bunch of ABB gangers.

"Miss Bakuda, over here!"

Aaaah shit. I thought I was done with this!

Reluctantly, I turn to face the group of teen-to-twenty-somethings in ABB colors, one of them waving a flag (Read: bedsheet, hanging from a rake) with what I'm pretty sure is meant to be Lung's mask depicted on it. It's a sufficiently impressive likeness I find myself thinking seriously, why is so much artistic talent being wasted on this gang?

Then I focus on actually interacting with these jerks.

"What?" I'd say that I said this in my surliest tone, but really it's just my normal level of grump. This just happens to be higher than most people's level of grump, and more importantly is probably more grump than these ABB dudes (and dudettes) are expecting from me. After all, ~obviously~ I would love to be reunited with my gang, right? Right. (Wrong)

And yeah, there's a pause, some glancing back and forth. I notice it seems to be among the younger members of the group. The older ones take it in stride, no visible reaction.

… oh, right. Their primary boss is Lung, their secondary boss is Oni Lee, and I wasn't exactly a warm and friendly individual when I was actively cooperating with ABB interests. Of course they're inured to surly, irritable people on their side, at least out of the parahuman bosses. Of which I am one of.

Right.

… fuck.

"A Walmart's been secured, boss. Our little group-" The guy talking jerks a finger to indicate the half-dozen other ABB gangers with him. "-is out looking for peeps to bring back, get organized." He shrugs with one shoulder. "Wasn't 'specting to find capes, but hey, here ya are."

I squint at the guy talking. That's a fuckin' weird accent he's got. Is it a Brooklyn accent?... no, he doesn't sound like Harley, I'm pretty sure that's not it. Whatever. Not sure why his accent even bothers me. I mull over whether -no, no. I've got a promise from Eidolon that I'll have support in the quarantine zone. My biggest motive for not giving the ABB the middle finger has been how unlikely it's been that I'd manage to either stand on my own two feet successfully or integrate into another group. While I'm not going to integrate with Cauldron, and I'm not precisely standing on my own, I still don't really need to bother putting up with the the ABB.

Which is good, because I don't want to be any kind of racist, and I don't see myself successfully managing to navigate the social minefield of the ABB in the long-term anyway. It's worked out amazingly well so far, but... for one thing, Oni Lee is dead, and Lung is either gone or tainted by the Simurgh, and I have this suspicion that their influence was a big factor in how well things were going. Very risky to try to keep leaning on that.

The ABB thugs shift uncomfortably. I assume I've been silent for too long. I consider literally flipping them off, but provoking them serves no real purpose for me. I can (probably) break from the group without making them hostile outright.

"I'm already situated." Which is arguably a lie, as I'm still looking for a place to hole up, but it is true that I've got -probably- my direct physical needs handled for the foreseeable future.

An eyebrow goes up on Talky McWeirdAccent. "Tha's good, boss, good to hear. We could use some more space for the Boys-" I find it faintly amusing for him to say that when women are clearly a part of the ABB frontliners and I'm Bakuda. "-truf be told. Lead on."

Dammit. I really don't want to be putting up with this crap. Also, I have nowhere to lead them to.

Hmm. Maybe I should put up with them and hope they meatshield for me.

No, I really don't want to be associated with the ABB anymore. And for all I know it's a Simurgh trap anyway. I mean, anything can be a Simurgh trap, but minimizing contact with affected people worked okay (Well, better than not doing so) in canon, so it should work for me, here.

So no, I'm not doing that.

Instead, I raise an eyebrow -no idea if they can see me doing so, but whatever- and idly comment, "Are you sure you really want a volatile maker of volatile bombs who's been Simurgh-ed 'defending'-" I do air quotes with my fingers and everything. "-your people? 'cause I see problems with this plan."

There's some shuffling and uncomfortable glances thrown about by the group. I'm kind of curious as to whether it's Simurgh influe-? Wait. She'd probably make them react differently to having this pointed out to them, if so. Never mind. Anyway, they're clearly having second thoughts... except for the guy doing the talking.

He shrugs. "Anybody's a risk. Ain't seein' no reason to be turnin' down an ally 'cause they might flip out."

Aaaand now people are sort of nodding along. Nobody is explicitly and verbally agreeing with him, but they're also not exactly acting like my point stands.

Fuckit.

I palm a freeze bomb, and hold it up, clear and visible. "I. Am. Not. Going. Back. 'kay?"

Weird Accent Guy sort of... rolls his eyes at me. "Yeah, sure. Whatever. Ya won't."

I sort of wave behind him with my other hand. You know, where the rest of the ABB folks used to be? They ran. They know what's what.

Weird Accent Guy stares, apparently in shock (Surprised he didn't hear them fleeing), and then turns back to me. I smile under the mask and wiggle the bomb a little and now he's properly freaking out and running.

I don't relax until several minutes after he's out of sight.

---------------------------------------------------------------------​

Finally I manage, after three scares involving those fucking explodey-zombies and burning a frag on what I think was a Merchants group reveling in the chaos, to find a place that seems like a defensible little location that will hold me for a while.

It's a hotel, a high-ish class one. More entrances than I'd like, but fewer than some of the alternatives, and its parking lot is fenced off well enough that it helps limit traffic right out the gate. The actual people-sleep-here structure only has four entrances, one for each cardinal direction, though I'm worried about the windows on the ground floor. More of them are intact than I'd expect, all things considered...

What decides me is that it's clearly not popular after the local apocalypse. Not sure why, but the Simurgh dust lacks more than a couple of footprint trails, and when I poke around inside -cautiously- I don't see or hear other people lurking about. Not even too many corpses -gonna need to get those out of here, and quick- to spoil things. It's got food, for at least a little bit, and it provides access to water, electronics for tinkering, and I can use... desks or whatever for other raw materials.

Plus an individual room is small and only has one door plus the window. On the top floor, that gives me something reasonably secure to sleep in, so long as I set up claymores or something at both entryways. And I can riddle other parts with traps semi-randomly, to fuck with would-be invaders who aren't sure where I'm operating from.

Some searching establishes that there are suites with built-in kitchens, even... though those are also the largest, most open ones, and I suspect other people would beeline to them for various reasons. Still, having the option to cook my own food without having to wrestle my power into letting me make a goddamn hotplate is definitely nice.

Well.

Time to start making claymores from dirty dishes and televisions.

… so glamorous.
 
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