Exalted: Out Of The Eater
- Thread starter TenfoldShields
- Start date
KnightofTempest
The Man who would be King
- Location
- Chicago
Ok this is an au. Might want to say that. New people might want to know that before reading.
Lookshy is one of the setting's good guys. You have it portrayed as unambiguously evil.
Lookshy is one of the setting's good guys. You have it portrayed as unambiguously evil.
Imrix
Periodically Malevolent QM
Ahem.
Literally post #2 of the thread. You plonker.
- Location
- Denmark
- Pronouns
- She/Her
you could also read the literal second post in the entire thread
lookshy in canon isn't even a "good guy", exalted doesn't have good guys, it's just imperialist in a different way than the realm; claiming lookshy to be a good guy is facile and uncomprehending
KnightofTempest
The Man who would be King
- Location
- Chicago
Lookshy will actually work with other exalts than just terrestrial.
Plus theyre constantly defending the east against the Raksha.
Also with the way the plotline of 2nd ed went, theyre literally one of two places that can resist the Realm when the Scarlet Empress comes back Yozi-Tainted.
That sounds like a good guy to me.
- Location
- Denmark
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Ah yes, citing one of the worst books in Second Edition as a defence when the gameline has moved on to Third Edition and most of the forum explicitly does not care for the canon presented by Return of the Scarlet Empress (since it's incoherent and nonsensical). Nice.
Lookshy doesn't even want to work with other Exalts lol. It sends out the Wyld Hunt as much as the Realm in 1e and 2e and in 3e outright assists the Realm in the Wyld Hunt at times. I can bring up citations for these as well. Exalted: The Outcaste, page 23, first edition and Exalted: What Fire Has Wrought, page 135, third edition.
maybe if lookshy was a good guy they should spend less time doing american imperialism, lol
For those not in the know, this is the one which goes "this world is kind of messy, we should melt it down to primal chaos and then build a new, clean slate designed perfectly by the hands of the smartest Exalted, planned and effective".
I kind of suspect the main reason it didn't go through was that the process would also slag dozens of Solar Pet Projects so it could never win the vote, and also those guys who have socio-economic views which must be wrong because you're the best and brightest and your theory is not the same.
Nothing to do with the collateral damage and sheer ego.
Imrix
Periodically Malevolent QM
Noooo, that was the Cauldronists, a bunch of crazy yahoos who terrified the Sidereals with the possibility that they might make their dreams a reality. Operation Wyldhand was the one that actually happened; it was the 'training exercise' where people lowered the Wyld defences in a particular territory to 'field test' how the Deliberative would respond in an emergency. Unfortunately, the organisers 'forgot' to evacuate the civilian population, but everybody involved agreed that this did wonders for the operation's verisimilitude.
Well, except the civilians. They mostly just screamed in terror and died horribly, but their complaints were lost in the paperwork. Very convenient, that.
It really helps you understand why the usurpation looked better than literally any alternative
- Location
- Brittany, France
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Hey now, be fair.
The Celestials filled all the proper paperwork guaranteeing each of the civilians dying in agony a nice, cushy, prosperous reincarnation, and got it all approved formally by the Deliberative.
It was all above-board and legal and I don't know why everyone is complaining.
TenfoldShields
Lounging on a Hoard of Words
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Apollyon, Angel of the Abyss rated this post Insightful
Cassiemouse
Market Atheist
Hrm. My impression is usually that the First Age was not nearly that bad and that the Sidereals made a horrible mistake in triggering the Usurpation. The right answer was to reform the Solars and stop the possibility of civil war. What they did was hardly the heroic path.
Deadly Snark
Tryhard As Fuck
I mean unless you want to go the route of the Sidereals and Terrestials are complete idiots, you kind of need for the Solar Deliberative to have become a legitimately horrible and corrupt mess, carried on the backs of Elder Immortals that have lost touch with their people.
It doesnt mean that the Usurpation needs to have been the right thing to do, but it does show why the Advisors and Generals and Praetorians of the Solars all decided that Usurpation was the superior option.
Cassiemouse
Market Atheist
Not really. The key is ambition. Just like the Primordial War before them, they wanted to be in charge and the Solars the obstacle to achieving that. So they cast down the Solars and created a new empire in their place. Some Sidereals and Dragonblooded probably believed that the Solars were too dangerous but I bet that was the driving force behind the Usurpation.
Origami Clock
Right twice a day
- Location
- Brighton, UK
I think I recall something in the First Age book in 2e about some of them not so much getting detached as really, really obsessive towards particular aesthetics.
Like the example given was a woman who converted everything in her little valley into Earth-aspected materials, including all the plants, animals, and she was working her way through the people, forcibly converting them into sparkly gem-automata in her manse before reformatting their minds to love their new shape.
Like the example given was a woman who converted everything in her little valley into Earth-aspected materials, including all the plants, animals, and she was working her way through the people, forcibly converting them into sparkly gem-automata in her manse before reformatting their minds to love their new shape.
Deadly Snark
Tryhard As Fuck
I mean again, I am sure that was part of the package. No one overthrows an Empire and its rulers out of pure selfless goals. And I bet that the Sidereals and Dragonblooded who had to take up more and more of the duties of actually protecting Creation and cleaning up the messes of the more hedonistic Solars, felt that since they were the ones actually doing the job anyways, they should be the one in charge.
That's obvious, that is part of how Coups start.
But it's kind of weird to blame everything on the Sidereals, when Exalted is a setting with realistic geopolitics and political reasoning. They almost definitely revolted because they felt they could do the job better and deserved to rule. But it doesnt change the fact that likely some of the oldest and most powerful Solars had become corrupt and detached God Kings, and that the Governmental institutions of the Deliberative had grown to be as monstrously corrupt as any Empire or state that lasts too long with immortal rulers. An fact that likely drove the younger and more idealistic Solars to despair and pleasure just to forget it all.
And sure, objectively in Game Theory terms, reformation alongside those younger and more idealistic Solars is the Golden Perfect Ending Route. But as anyone can tell you, that is much easier said than done. And also extremely dangerous, and when you are someone living in a state that is a corrupt, bloated mess, it can be extremely easy to burn it all down and start anew. Whether or not that is right is not the point, it is the easiest option that is the most likely to succeed and would get rid of the people you hate.
Pretty much. The perfect solution was to break the whole prophecy thing by involving beings from outside Fate and out manipulate them. Because there is nothing that could go horribly wrong with that.
The usurpation was an awful solution to an even worse problem. That said, the Sidereals and Dragonblooded did not do the best job in the aftermath. When the Balorian Crusade was a thing, mortals were so fed up with the Dragonblooded that significant numbers of them joined the Fae. That suggests quite a bit about the Shogunate, little of it good.
The usurpation was an awful solution to an even worse problem. That said, the Sidereals and Dragonblooded did not do the best job in the aftermath. When the Balorian Crusade was a thing, mortals were so fed up with the Dragonblooded that significant numbers of them joined the Fae. That suggests quite a bit about the Shogunate, little of it good.
Chloe Sullivan
Subdefective
- Location
- 1630 Revello Drive, Sunnydale CA
Well yes, when you overthrow the previous regime in a bloody revolution, what you have in the aftermath is typically a mess. You've severely damaged if not demolished the institutions that ran things, and building new ones is neither easy nor quick. Nor do revolutionaries typically have that sort of expertise.
The loss of institutional experience and disruption to systems is inevitably going to make things rocky.
The loss of institutional experience and disruption to systems is inevitably going to make things rocky.
Well, as Prachett put it. Revolutions just go around and then you're in the same place with different scenery...
- Location
- madison
exalted is not quite so generous. each turn of the cycle does immense damage to the world. We're at the point where if it turns again the world might not take it.
- Location
- Pittsburgh, PA
I mean, why not? Creation was created as a playground/rest stop for the Primordials, and humans were deliberately gimped and crippled to force them into a state of perpetual inferiority. Why not try to build a new Creation with less built-in shittiness and Primordial DRM?
What if every man, woman, and child in the Deliberative didn't have to worry about disease or old age anymore? What if the need for prioritization of limited resources could be done away with entirely?
The only flaw is in determining who makes the rules for Creation 2.0, and how to integrate the previous population into the new utopia.
- Location
- Spain
The previous population is shamefully flawed, like Creation itself.
But don't worry, the Deliberative will create new, perfected peoples for a new, better creation.
- Location
- Pittsburgh, PA
I mean, if you're going to be a lazy asshole about it, then sure. If nothing else, you could put resources toward building a sort of retirement home realm for the previous population to live out their lives in, then collect their souls postmortem for purification and integration into the New Creation.
I prefer having the Usurpation be triggered by legitimate fear of how members of the Deliberative were growing in ambition while the Deliberative itself became less willing to rein in members whose ambitions started going off in nightmarish directions. When the Black Nadir Concordat can rip open the tombs of the Neverborn and start building allegedly-safe necromantic reactors to beef up the energy grid throughout an entire Direction, all without even notifying other Deliberative members of their intentions beforehand, and then get away without even a slap on the wrist?
At that point, the current system of checks and balances isn't cutting it, and the Sidereals couldn't find a way to make the Deliberative reform itself without massive risk of failure at great - likely lethal - cost to themselves (the Vision of Gold). Rather than wait for the day some lone-wolf Exalt ended up triggering the apocalypse through reckless ambition (the Vision of Void), they decided it was better to make sure the world survived in some shape or form than risk everything on obtaining a perfect ending (the Vision of Bronze.)
