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[Exalted, ?] Most High

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Unelemental said:
To be fair, it's an awesome sword.
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More awesome than the greatest city that ever existed and ever will exist?

Okie dokie.
Vanguard_D said:
You did not want to meet the Fairest? One of the only persons capable of calming down the Most High and bring serenity to his works? The only person that was as close as siblings or as loved as Lea for Odyssial?
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Nah.

Rihaku was too mysterious. He didn't give us anything to hang a hook on except that he got on super well with her and she (he?) was super pretty. And now she's gone, going on awesome adventures to protect the Realm and we'll probably never meet her.

I dunno, maybe it would be Nio reborn or something, but at the moment there's just nothing to get excited about.
 
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Vanguard_D said:
Odyssial might have lead but he did not really build. We discarded the build options. We choose Strategos over the West and did not expand it. Bringing wealth to our nation was because we choose to lead the armies of the Exalted to war. We picked our companions over and over again and made plans to prepare for what was to come. Reincarnation was the final fail safe, his last throw into the future to ensure that in the end that golden forever would come. Dont throw it away on a ruin, walk again with the heroes and companions that formed creation.
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WE ALREADY REINCARNATE. People don't seem to get that. Odyssial is Ulyssian. Same mind. That golden forever is already secured, all we're doing is nabbing memories and planting caches. I would rather build a fortress that ensures Creation actually survives to see that glorious future than selfishly focus on ensuring slightly more of Odyssial survives the winnowing of the world. To have a perfect world, first you need a world. And when did we make plans to focus on what was to come? We chose against the sorceror, much to my chagrin; if you're going to pick a concept, then stick with it.

For fuck's sake, Fairest already increases our chances of perfect reincarnation. What more do you want?
 
Savonarola said:
WE ALREADY REINCARNATE. People don't seem to get that. Odyssial is Ulyssian. Same mind. That golden forever is already secured, all we're doing is nabbing memories and planting caches. I would rather build a fortress that ensures Creation actually survives to see that glorious future than selfishly focus on ensuring slightly more of Odyssial survives the winnowing of the world. To have a perfect world, first you need a world. And when did we make plans to focus on what was to come? We chose against the sorceror, much to my chagrin; if you're going to pick a concept, then stick with it.

For fuck's sake, Fairest already increases our chances of perfect reincarnation. What more do you want?
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Because the point of reincarnation isn't to maintain Odyssial. It's to let him carry on with his goals. And without his memories, who's to say he won't get distracted by something or doesn't find this motivation in the first place?
 
Even if Sorcerer lost, witness Olys Sacrifice for the Adamant Circle:

Olsyssian sat shaken on his throne, his world cast to ruin.

A truth was revealed to him, shattering his perception of Reality itself.

With dread, his mind conjured up the memrory of that fateful moment again.


Lealope leaned close, her breath tickling his ear as she whispered.

"Your struggles are futile. You will be a harem protagonist."

And Olyssian Screamed.

:p
 
Unelemental said:
Because the point of reincarnation isn't to maintain Odyssial. It's to let him carry on with his goals. And without his memories, who's to say he won't get distracted by something or doesn't find this motivation in the first place?
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And you don't think that might be interesting? If Ulyssian develops the same goals organically, then so be it. I'm cool with that. But you're actively voting to lock in our motivation before even seeing what else we could do. Where's the fun in that?
 
Savonarola said:
We also chose the options to lead and build, to do great things in favor of focusing on Odyssial personally every chance we got. Subduer over Sorcerer, Commander in place of Obliterator.
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...ironically, we've chosen less of those than of our personal things. We've only chosen 2 of those. Subduer and Commander. Everything else has either focused on Odyssial's personal power or on his relationships with other people. The Rose Blossoms, The Sword of Endings, Apex Flight, Blade of the Battle Maiden, Petals of the Rose, Lathe of Heaven, The Fairest.

All of those are either about personal power or about his relationships. Odyssial's never been about cities...Sorcerer would've helped with the city, but we chose the option that has no synergy with the Peerless City. So would the West. We didn't chose that either.

Perhaps if we had, the City would not crumble and turn to dust, as we know it will, but that is a question for another day. As things are, we know it will collapse.

We've got no synergy with the City. The vast majority of options we've chosen have synergy with Reincarnation, though.

Savonarola said:
And you don't think that might be interesting? If Ulyssian develops the same goals organically, then so be it. I'm cool with that. But you're actively voting to lock in our motivation before even seeing what else we could do. Where's the fun in that?
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It's not locked in. Ulyssian can choose not to do it. Remember, Rihaku has said that Odyssial does not take over even with a perfect reincarnation.
 
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Savonarola said:
WE ALREADY REINCARNATE. People don't seem to get that. Odyssial is Ulyssian. Same mind. That golden forever is already secured, all we're doing is nabbing memories and planting caches. I would rather build a fortress that ensures Creation actually survives to see that glorious future than selfishly focus on ensuring slightly more of Odyssial survives the winnowing of the world. To have a perfect world, first you need a world. And when did we make plans to focus on what was to come? We chose against the sorceror, much to my chagrin; if you're going to pick a concept, then stick with it.

For fuck's sake, Fairest already increases our chances of perfect reincarnation. What more do you want?
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Fortress? By all accounts I wouldn't rate a 'gutted, pockmarked, wrecked of a once great city' as a 'fortress'.

And 'forever secured'? That's a stretch, when it says that even picking the Reincarnation option only 'greatly improves' the chances of a perfect reincarnation. Not ensures, simply improves. There's also the fact that picking the Reincarnation states that we can pick and choose what we want out of the reincarnation process if Odyssial actually devotes time to the process itself:
Rihaku said:
+ / - Much greater chance of reincarnating perfectly. However, you guys will get to choose from a spectrum of options regarding Odyssial's reincarnation; even if he gets the best outcome, still it may not be perfect.
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Aye, most of our choices have pushed for Odyssial's personal power and personal connections, and continuing those into the next life.

So clearly we need to make certain that Odyssial tells Death to fuck off, so he can join them as best he can.

They say there are only three things certain in life.
Death, taxes, and Odyssial.

The first and last are mutually exclusive.
 
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Savonarola said:
And you don't think that might be interesting? If Ulyssian develops the same goals organically, then so be it. I'm cool with that. But you're actively voting to lock in our motivation before even seeing what else we could do. Where's the fun in that?
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It might be interesting or it might not, but it's not what Odyssial would leave up to chance.
 
Savonarola said:
WE ALREADY REINCARNATE. People don't seem to get that. Odyssial is Ulyssian. Same mind. That golden forever is already secured, all we're doing is nabbing memories and planting caches.
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There is a differences in a reincarnation that only looks and thinks as Odyssial, that is more a reset button then an reincarnation.

I would rather build a fortress that ensures
Creation actually survives to see that glorious future than selfishly focus on ensuring slightly more of Odyssial survives the winnowing of the world. To have a perfect world, first you need a world. And when did we make plans to focus on what was to come? We chose against the sorceror, much to my chagrin; if you're going to pick a concept, then stick with it.
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Building an unfinished fortress that has fallen into disrepair and disuse over the ages and there is no guarantee that we can fully use is better at defending creation then the Ulyssian with the powers of the Most High himself? It might not even recognize us at the level of reincarnation we are now. The plans was ensuring that allies existed in the age to come, from the hidden dragon blood groups to the Fairest. She has all alone protected Creation better then that building have and we cant finish it. Especially without Ody´s memories.

For fuck's sake, Fairest already increases our chances of perfect reincarnation. What more do you want?
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I want the best Ulyssian and Odyssial reincarnation fusion I can get. Because the Age of Sorrows need that strength of character and might of arm more then it needs an awesome tower.
 
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EnderofWorlds said:
Fortress? By all accounts I wouldn't rate a 'gutted, pockmarked, wrecked of a once great city' as a 'fortress'.

And 'forever secured'? That's a stretch, when it says that even picking the Reincarnation option only 'greatly improves' the chances of a perfect reincarnation. Not ensures, simply improves. There's also the fact that picking the Reincarnation states that we can pick and choose what we want out of the reincarnation process if Odyssial actually devotes time to the process itself:
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It's also packed full of traps created by the most twisty mind of the Ages of Glory and Dream.

Traps that should ignore Ulyssian, since Ody didn't want to be hampered travelling around his city.
 
vel10 said:
All of those are either about personal power or about his relationships. Odyssial's never been about cities...Sorcerer would've helped with the city, but we chose the option that has no synergy with the Peerless City. So would the West. We didn't chose either of those.
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Where does it say the Sorceror would've helped with the City? If anything, it had synergy with reincarnation. As for personal power? Reincarnation hurts Odyssial in the past.
vel10 said:
Perhaps if we had, the City would not crumble and turn to dust, as we know it will, but that is a question for another day.
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Except it doesn't? Even thousands of years later, the city is still formidable. Still a nigh-indomitable bastion upon which the enemies of Creation break like crashing waves. It says so within the option itself.
vel10 said:
We've got no synergy with the City. The vast majority of options we've chosen have synergy with Reincarnation, though.
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It's not about building so much as it is about making our mark on the world. There is a great deal of synergy with the other 'martial' options. The Subduer, the Commander, the Strategos, all of these focus on Odyssial the General. A great leader of an invincible army. That army requires a stronghold; this gives us one.
vel10 said:
It's not locked in. Ulyssian can choose not to do it. Remember, Rihaku has said that Odyssial does not take over.
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He also said that the resulting fusion will consider itself Odyssial.
 
DakkaMania said:
Lealope leaned close, her breath tickling his ear as she whispered.

"Your struggles are futile. You will be a harem protagonist."

:p
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To late mate, Ody lived in the first age.:p But it was more Lea´s harem anyway the only ones Ody brought in was probably Pearl, that Dragon blooded captain and maybe the Fairest compared to the rest of the Solars he was very temperate.:D
 
The Odyssial we have so far created have always looked outwards. He might have ruthlessly self optimized but this was always only a means to a end. Optimization for the purpose of creating a better future for humanity, his friends, Lea. He chose to become the General, the Stratagos. He might have optimized himself for these roles but that was so he best fulfill his duty to others, not for his own sake

It seems better to me that Odyssial dreams will be taken up those he sought to protect. By Ulyssian a mortal who is the second coming of him in spirit. He friends and allies that still remember the Dream he had. In this way Odyssial succeeds by the continuation of his ideals. This to me is seems far more worthy legacy then something like reincarnation. It seems only self-defeating that after all that hard work creation still needs Odyssial to save their asses.

Seriously, he's been going at it for millennium's by this points. Let someone else take up the torch.


Also I cannot understand how anyone with the memories of Odyssial, however fragmented they may be, can actually grow into his own person. I know Rihaku is talented writer and all that but I just don't buy that by the end of this we will have the heroic mortal that we cheered on at the end of the last Odyssey thread. With Odyssial ever growing influence Ulyssian will become no longer be the underdog. It will be as if his ascension was fated and that his own efforts were worthless. Remember how utterly antithetical he found those notions when Anys-Syn popped up at the end of second thread. Well, I agree.
 
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If we choose Reincarnation Planning, we explicitly get to choose how Perfect the reincarnation is. If we want to do a weaker reincarnation, we can do that.

We don't get to vote if we don't choose RP. We're leaving it entirely up to chance.
+ / - Much greater chance of reincarnating perfectly. However, you guys will get to choose from a spectrum of options regarding Odyssial's reincarnation; even if he gets the best outcome, still it may not be perfect.
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Choice.
 
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Random Asian Person said:
Also I cannot understand how anyone with the memories of Odyssial, however fragmented they may be, can actually grow into his own person. I know Rihaku is talented writer and all that but I just don't buy that by the end of this we will have the heroic mortal that we cheered on at the end of the last Odyssey thread. With Odyssial ever growing influence Ulyssian will become no longer be the underdog. It will be as if his ascension was fated and that his own efforts were worthless. Remember how utterly antithetical he found those notions when Anys-Syn popped up at the end of second thread. Well, I agree.
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It's a fusion, not an overwriting.
 
vel10 said:
If we choose Reincarnation Planning, we explicitly get to choose how Perfect the reincarnation is. If we want to do a very weak Reincarnation, we get to vote on that.

We don't get to vote if we don't choose RP. We're leaving it entirely up to chance.
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TheOtherSandman said:
It's a fusion, not an overwriting.
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You say that, but this is a millenia's old GREATNESS 10 SOLAR EXALTED, I don't see in the slightest how it could be anything but overwhelming.

Also I am assuming by selecting reincarnation planning we will come out we an even higher fidelity reincarnation then in cannon. Frankly Ulyssian is already similar enough. Although confirmation from Rihaku about just how much fidelity we'll get or how muc we could adjust it would make the option more palatable for me
 
Random Asian Person said:
With Odyssial ever growing influence Ulyssian will become no longer be the underdog. It will be as if his ascension was fated and that his own efforts were worthless. Remember how utterly antithetical he found those notions when Anys-Syn popped up at the end of second thread. Well, I agree.
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But Odyssial and Ulyssian is the same person, the same soul in around about way it was himself that ensured that it would come to pass. An fusion do not overwrite one part but makes them whole again.

It also kinda resonates with how Odyssial got his exaltation. When he did not find a way a Way found him, but this time it is his own way.
 
Random Asian Person said:
You say that, but this is a millenia's old GREATNESS 10 SOLAR EXALTED, I don't see in the slightest how it could be anything but overwhelming.

Also I am assuming by selecting reincarnation planning we will come out we an even higher fidelity reincarnation then in cannon. Frankly Ulyssian is already similar enough. Although confirmation from Rihaku about just how much fidelity we'll get or how muc we could adjust it would make the option more palatable for me
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Rihaku explicitly said it's not overwhelming. Lemme quote it.

Rihaku said:
Just to be clear, even a perfectly reincarnated Odyssial does not have ALL of Odyssial's memories. He does not even have most of them, nor would he 'overwrite' Ulyssian's memories. If you add information to a person, does he change? Yes. Does he become someone else entirely? That is difficult to say. Odyssial reincarnating perfectly will not remove Ulyssian's memories, nor will it bury them under Odyssial's own emotions. It would be more like a fusion, with opportunities to pick up more of Odyssial's memories as the story advanced.

FU - SION - HAAA!
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Rihaku said:
He would only remember the snippets you've seen, at the outset. Maybe a couple more.
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Not overwriting, not suppressing them, not burying them. This is in the event of a Perfect Reincarnation.
 
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