[Exalted, ?] Most High

That's actually not what happened.
If anything, the problem was the other solars screwing around.
Unless Rihaku retconned everything that led up to the Usurpation. You had fuckers like Desus and that Admiral guy Being the worst examples.

And Ody could easily have decided to try and reach out to the disgruntled factions BEFORE they became a problem and presented himself as the "only sane Solar". He could even have told them about the Limit Breaks and stuff, maybe even carefully dropping hypotheticals about the Lathe to see if some might be amenable to it.
 
Ulyssian's plotline has been nicely wrapped up with a bow, I feel. He's pretty vanilla as an Exalt - most of his plot was wrapped up in being a mortal.
I'm not sure its as clear cut as that. I mean, from the very start itself:
You will craft the legacy of a character with truly apocalyptic might, and later play in the shadow of that legacy.
The point was never just "hey, Ody's back" - it's about Uly who was Ody living in Ody's shadow, and achieving his goals while trying to live up to that legacy.

Of course, this doesn't speak to your point about plot hooks. If you think Luseng sucks, well...*shrug*.
 
And Ody could easily have decided to try and reach out to the disgruntled factions BEFORE they became a problem and presented himself as the "only sane Solar". He could even have told them about the Limit Breaks and stuff, maybe even carefully dropping hypotheticals about the Lathe to see if some might be amenable to it.
"Hey guys I know that you are all super paranoid and have just spent the past few millennia watching my peers fall into madness but I have great news! All Solar Exaltations are inherently cursed to drive their owners insane, don't worry though I'm totally fine. By the way have I told you about my awesome plan to destroy Creation and remake it anew in my image?"

Plus he'd have to know that they were planning something, the Sidereals kept a good lid on their activities and Odyssial would have been focused on the Lathe.
 
The whole point of the Sidrael conspiracy was that no one knew about them as a faction. There was no way for Oddyssial to make concessions to the bronze faction because no one knew they existed. And until the current wracking, no one found out for thousands of years.
 
He came very close to building his ideal world. Is it wrong to want to save the greatest number of people?
Considering nearly everyone opposed him at the end, they clearly didn't want to be saved.

...I am pretty sure that does not translate to 'permanent limit break' but rather 'attempt to regain Odyssial's memories and power.'

But, just in-case, we can ask @Rihaku if that takes the control of our character away from us and makes us permanently Limit-Broken. I feel like that's rather unlikely, considering that this is a Quest. Quests are about choice, not removal of agency.
First of all, we do have control during Limit Break; what do you think this vote is, anyway? I'm opposing Embrace, but the text you bolded just means we're attempting to become powerful, to draw on his strength. It absolutely does not mean permanent Limit Break, nor would permanent Limit Break remove all our agency.
Well isn't this vote just that, deciding what we do during the limit brake and whether we accept it or not? This option header is Embracing the Clarity, and then says Ulyssian will attempt to force his exaltation to work just like Odyssial's did and wasn't that how he ended up at the end? I see no reason why Odyssial's memories won't eventually lead him directly to doing to what he did, although it won't happen immediately.

While we will probably get another option again if Resist the Clarity wins but doesn't roll high enough, I very much doubt the same is true for the Red option unless Ulyssian's world view is shattered and that is going to be extraordinarily difficult.

Edit - Rihaku post. I'm not sure if people thought I meant we would enter a permanent limit break now, as I meant it would lead us to that inevitably if we travel the same path. Or perhaps I am just misunderstanding.
 
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Once again, we can take a diplomatic path if we choose to embrace the clarity. We won't be in Limit Break all the time, and we'll still care about our friends.

And hell, if we want to be diplomatic during our Limit Break, all we have to do is make Diplomacy the most practical path, by improving our skill with it. Which is something we can do.

Of course, this doesn't speak to your point about plot hooks. If you think Luseng sucks, well...*shrug*.

If I remember right, a lot of the impetus between doing stuff with Luseng was people who really liked the Tower and were sad we didn't get it. Admittedly, I don't find Luseng interesting, but...
 
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The fact that Oddysial couldn't bother finding a less publicly destructive way to destroy the viziers with his body does suggest he has lost a lot of planning ability outside of brute force. For example he didn't give a plan to his minions that will catch most of them then covertly kill the rest outside of pubic view. It would be just as good at killing them but doesn't burn his reputation for no gain.

Why did he need to kill hundreds of them in the streets. Even as a mortal Uly was pretty fucking good at being Batman he should be able to kill them in private.
 
[X] Embrace the Clarity

Red option is red. Who cares for the the millions doom to die in this age when the billions yet to be born demands our compassion.
 
"Hey guys I know that you are all super paranoid and have just spent the past few millennia watching my peers fall into madness but I have great news! All Solar Exaltations are inherently cursed to drive their owners insane, don't worry though I'm totally fine. By the way have I told you about my awesome plan to destroy Creation and remake it anew in my image?"

Plus he'd have to know that they were planning something, the Sidereals kept a good lid on their activities and Odyssial would have been focused on the Lathe.
The whole point of the Sidrael conspiracy was that no one knew about them as a faction. There was no way for Oddyssial to make concessions to the bronze faction because no one knew they existed. And until the current wracking, no one found out for thousands of years.


We have WOG that a more socially a focused Odyssial could have prevented the Usurpation ENTIRELY

Besides he could have just started making inquiries with Sidereals/Lunars he might have met who seemed a bit unhappy with how their debauched superiors were acting.
 
While it's possible that Anys might try to turn Zao against us please don't act as if it is at all likely for her to succeed. For her to have even the slightest chance we'd have to do something disasterous to Creation or greatly harm Moon. Meanwhile with the entirety of Creation aligned against us (and thankfully against each other) thanks to Anys we need to increase our personal power as quickly as possible, and deliberately crippling ourselves by throwing away the Crown/500,000 XP and 2x modifier is a great way to be killed by a madwomen. Keep in mind that while embracing the Clarity greatly decreases the effects of our intimacies only the full blown Limit Break seems to completely disregard them so the situations where we'd hurt one of our friends are few and far between.

I have said before that any possibility we might harm our friends in limit break is unacceptable.

I will not leave the lives of our friends up to fate if it can helped it. Not embracing it increase our chances if discovering the Great Curse and actually doing something about it this time.

I understand that it is diminshment and while getting weaker irks me, one of the points I adlvcated for getting Mastery of Sable Scales is because it will better help us protect our friends.

Also we don't know exactly when Anys will make her move. Rihaku said not to underestimate her preparation. Who knows what could happen in the future that could cause us to limit break especially if we're choosing to become more like Ody and are actively seeking the "clarity" of limit break when we can. I just don't want to give her any more ammo she could potentially use.

I also don't want to prove Anys right for betraying everything she stood for to better her chances of stopping us.
 
Considering nearly everyone opposed him at the end, they clearly didn't want to be saved.

Once again that's not what happened at all. He started fighting because the Sidrael decided to kill all solars. The Incarnae joined in because Ody started to toss around nuke equivalents and slagging huge part of Creation.
It had nothing to do with what he tried to accomplish at all.
 
"Worse"? Odyssial FAILED, he had his chance and fucked up so following in his footsteps is repeating his same mistakes instead of trying something new. We can still achieve his goal of using the Lathe of Heaven, we just won't be stupid about it and needless alienating people and making enemies thanks to not considering how other people will react to our "optimal" actions.

Odyssial didn't fail. The world failed for not embracing his clarity.
 
We have WOG that a more socially a focused Odyssial could have prevented the Usurpation ENTIRELY

Besides he could have just started making inquiries with Sidereals/Lunars he might have met who seemed a bit unhappy with how their debauched superiors were acting.

Odyssial didn't gain social skill until later in his life. We're still young and have lots of room to grow. We can make the optimal path the diplomatic one and then we can be that socially focused Odyssial that could have been.

It doesn't put us into permanent limit break, it doesn't force us to take the most violent path every-time, it simply dedicates us to regaining our glory and saving the maximum amount of people possible.
 
We have WOG that a more socially a focused Odyssial could have prevented the Usurpation ENTIRELY

Besides he could have just started making inquiries with Sidereals/Lunars he might have met who seemed a bit unhappy with how their debauched superiors were acting.
Socially focused Oddyssial stopped being a possibility when we decided to vote for a Dawn caste in char creation.
 
Guys if you don't want to pay the Xp cost for [] Resist the clarity then pick [] snap out of it since we DON'T lose Ambition at all just Crown of Metis
But we won't save nearly that much XP, because Crown of Metis lets us get away without otherwise critical things like a Bureaucracy Excellency, not to mention other, less critical things like Performance, Linguistics, Socialize, Survival, and Medicine Excellencies. This isn't even counting the substantially reduced dice pools in these areas, which we would have to spend considerable XP to ameliorate. We depend rather heavily on Crown to make us a specialist of everything.

The draw of snap out of it isn't really in saving XP for beyond the immediate future, it is that it separates Ody from Uly. The desirability of this is debatable, but it could make for an interesting story.
 
Once again that's not what happened at all. He started fighting because the Sidrael decided to kill all solars. The Incarnae joined in because Ody started to toss around nuke equivalents and slagging huge part of Creation.
It had nothing to do with what he tried to accomplish at all.

And he couldn't have just NOT gone out to fight instead of making final preparations to activate the Lathe so he wouldn't have needed to beat the Sids/DBs in order to win?
 
The fact that Oddysial couldn't bother finding a less publicly destructive way to destroy the viziers with his body does suggest he has lost a lot of planning ability outside of brute force. For example he didn't give a plan to his minions that will catch most of them then covertly kill the rest outside of pubic view. It would be just as good at killing them but doesn't burn his reputation for no gain.

Why did he need to kill hundreds of them in the streets. Even as a mortal Uly was pretty fucking good at being Batman he should be able to kill them in private.

Odyissial would respond with something like

" Why should do that when it would be faster, more efficient, and give my body something to do while I think if I killed them all myself?"

Odyissial will do anything for the sake of optimization. Even if other options could work just as well, he'll take the one that uses up less time and effort.
 
We have WOG that a more socially a focused Odyssial could have prevented the Usurpation ENTIRELY
Well yes he's Odyssial nothing is impossible for him, what's your point? As it stands we chose martial options from the very start so saying "In an incredibly divergent universe where Odyssial wasn't the most feared Exalt to ever walk Creation he could have convinced the Sidereals to be reasonable." is a little silly.
I have said before that any possibility we might harm our friends in limit break is unacceptable.
Stop playing the game then. Seriously while we can change the chance that our Limit Break can harm them by focusing on short-term goals there is always going to be the possibility of them dying. That's just the nature of the game I'm afraid and any possible solution is far out there.
Also we don't know exactly when Anys will make her move. Rihaku said not to underestimate her preparation. Who knows what could happen in the future that could cause us to limit break especially if we're choosing to become more like Ody and are actively seeking the "clarity" of limit break when we can. I just don't want to give her any more ammo she could potentially use.
Actively seeking the Clarity means reintegrating our memories quicker and focusing on gaining power as much as possible, you know making the best of the time we have before Anys comes knocking? Also while she might show up tomorrow or she might show up in a year her power is always going to be dependent on how long she has spent preparing, do keep in mind that the lowest point here is "E7 Celestial backed by the powers of hell" and scales up quickly.
I also don't want to prove Anys right for betraying everything she stood for to better her chances of stopping us.
Unless we turn Creation into a torture chamber we will never prove Anys right, she thinks that the obliteration of Creation would be preferable to Solar rule.
 
Slaughtering the corrupt Eunuchs is a time-honored tradition of reform in Eastern countries so it's not like I have objections, mind. On the other hand the Limit Break being, basically, Ulyssian/Odyssial trying to determine how they can ascend to become capital-g God is certainly fitting with the hubris theme.

I know, right?

And it is somewhat amusing he can't find anything more efficient to do with his body other than slaughter every Vizier in easy range to run down. On the whole I'm like, lol.

Well, he determined that the optimal path was to remember who his was, so he didn't really have anything to do with his body.

In the meantime Hell and most likely the Underworld and Heaven will be on our asses thanks to Anys. They won't give us the time to get that powerful again.

Boy, 250,000 XP and doubled XP for the rest of the quest sure would be helpful there...

Yes! when you go about it in a pants-on-head retarded way by pissing off huge amounts of people that could be convinced to either assist you of just not get in your way because you were so hyper focused on creating it and not bothering to explain to the "masses" because they "wouldn't understand your genius" it certainly is.

Uh, almost no one is going to be amenable to a plan of the form "Let me destroy Creation and remake it in my image." It involves WAY too much trust for the High First Age, also it goes against numerous Defining Intimacies, including Incarna Defining Intimacies.

That's actually not what happened.
If anything, the problem was the other solars screwing around.
Unless Rihaku retconned everything that led up to the Usurpation. You had fuckers like Desus and that Admiral guy Being the worst examples.

That too. Half the Solars were part of the problem.

While it's possible that Anys might try to turn Zao against us please don't act as if it is at all likely for her to succeed. For her to have even the slightest chance we'd have to do something disasterous to Creation or greatly harm Moon. Meanwhile with the entirety of Creation aligned against us (and thankfully against each other) thanks to Anys we need to increase our personal power as quickly as possible, and deliberately crippling ourselves by throwing away the Crown/500,000 XP and 2x modifier is a great way to be killed by a madwomen. Keep in mind that while embracing the Clarity greatly decreases the effects of our intimacies only the full blown Limit Break seems to completely disregard them so the situations where we'd hurt one of our friends are few and far between.

Odyssial has no fucks to give. For anyone.

The whole point of the Sidrael conspiracy was that no one knew about them as a faction. There was no way for Oddyssial to make concessions to the bronze faction because no one knew they existed. And until the current wracking, no one found out for thousands of years.

Not that Odyssial would have made concessions to them in the first place - he'd just have killed them all before they marshaled the DBs and traitor Solars.

The fact that Oddysial couldn't bother finding a less publicly destructive way to destroy the viziers with his body does suggest he has lost a lot of planning ability outside of brute force.

No, it was a deliberate choice. He wanted to make the consequences of corruption clear, but didn't have time to stage a big public execution.* Also, Odyssial knows that he is mediocre at inspiring love but incredibly capable of inspiring fear, and that, when the chips are down, it is better to be feared than loved, for men are weak and fear loss more than they value gain. He wants his enemies to understand that 1) they are never safe from him 2) they cannot run from him and 3) there is nothing they can do to become safe from him except to wholeheartedly comply with every fiber of their existence, and he will know if they aren't.

Terrified Helplessness, basically.

*Because he's fucking off from Luseng to figure out how to reintegrate Odyssial
 
Also, let's not forget, by regaining our memories, we'll actually be able to remember what we did wrong the first time and avoid it.

Then we can, IC-wise, know to avoid the problems rather than metagaming.
 
Also, Odyssial knows that he is mediocre at inspiring love but incredibly capable of inspiring fear, and that, when the chips are down, it is better to be feared than loved, for men are weak and fear loss more than they value gain

There are actually some interesting psychological studies about that. The human brain values loss 2x that it values gain. Therefore, you have to have a chance of winning at least twice as much as you stand to lose before people are generally willing to take the option. Generally more.

However, again, we can work to be diplomatic if we know we need to. We are not prevented from aiming to make diplomacy the optimal path.
 
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We have WOG that a more socially a focused Odyssial could have prevented the Usurpation ENTIRELY

Yes, but it would have been the meagre splendor of an Eternal High First Age, instead of the true glory of a re-purposed Creation. A dire sacrifice to make, but a socially focused Odyssial would have been too willing to sacrifice...

Once again that's not what happened at all. He started fighting because the Sidrael decided to kill all solars. The Incarnae joined in because Ody started to toss around nuke equivalents and slagging huge part of Creation.

Pretty much, though the Lathe (and Odyssial generally being a scary fucker) were part of their motivation in starting the Usurpation.

But we won't save nearly that much XP, because Crown of Metis lets us get away without otherwise critical things like a Bureaucracy Excellency, not to mention other, less critical things like Performance, Linguistics, Socialize, Survival, and Medicine Excellencies. This isn't even counting the substantially reduced dice pools in these areas, which we would have to spend considerable XP to ameliorate. We depend rather heavily on Crown to make us a specialist of everything.

Indeed, the Crown is both your once-per-story get-out-of-Crash button (hugely important!), AND your all-purpose FREE EXCELLENCY for any Ability, in an edition where mote gain has been nerfed SEVERELY.

And he couldn't have just NOT gone out to fight instead of making final preparations to activate the Lathe so he wouldn't have needed to beat the Sids/DBs in order to win?

? The Lathe wasn't anywhere near completed when they attacked. Also, the Usurpation happens at the Calibration Feast. It's not like the Sidereals attacked individual Solars in their strongholds, that would have been silly.
 
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