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[Exalted, ?] Most High

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vel10 said:
We are still in control of the character even if we pick Red. Please, remember that. It is not going to bind us to taking the most pointlessly violent option every time. Even if we were forced to pick the most optimal choice every-time, we are supposed to be a genius, and that's hardly optimal.
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[] Embrace the Clarity [+250,000 XP, (permanent) 2x modifier to XP generation] - This is not an external mental influence. What it is, is the removal of all distraction, all mental impurities, all the fleeting and purposeless stimuli that constantly assail the mind. What it is, is the triumph of the will, the extermination of weakness and vice. For a man can only live with one purpose - to do otherwise is to be at war with one's self. Even after Limit Break ends, Uly will understand that the fastest way to grow stronger is to unlock Odyssial's memories, force the Exaltation to perform as it did under Odyssial, and that only strength can save this wretched Creation. He will re-orient his priorities accordingly.

This is the vote. I would advise you to read it, specifically the part where Ulyssian will attempt to enter near permanent Limit Break like Odyssial. So no, we will not have control of our actions just like we didn't have control of our actions during this limit break and Rihaku said that these were mild.
 
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Neptune said:
This is the vote. I would advise you to read it, specifically the part where Ulyssian will attempt to enter near permanent Limit Break like Odyssial. So no, we will not have control of our actions just like we didn't have control of our actions during this limit break.
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...I am pretty sure that does not translate to 'permanent limit break' but rather 'attempt to regain Odyssial's memories and power.'

But, just in-case, we can ask @Rihaku if that takes the control of our character away from us and makes us permanently Limit-Broken. I feel like that's rather unlikely, considering that this is a Quest. Quests are about choice, not removal of agency.
 
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Serous said:
[x] Snap Out of It

This option is the one most likely to make us suspicious about the existence of Limit Breaks. The loss of the Crown and sudden behaviour change when we toss the sword away should at least give us an inkling that what happened had something to do with Odyssial.

The loss of Metis is not as bad as it could be, with us having the Sable, as well as other people who can help cover our weak spots. It also gives us a plot hook to forge our own path with Ambition.

Also, aren't we glad we did not kill Ayala. Considering what happened here, I dont want to think about what would happen if we LB in the realm.
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Considering Ambition which is a personafication of Ody's will wanted us to start the realm civil war well that should give you a good guess at what would've happened if he limit breaked then.

Boy wouldn't that have pissed me off after all the arguing I had did to make sure we didn't go for the Civil War. Would've made all the effort worthless.
 
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I would just like to note that for all that people complain that Oddyssial failed, he only failed because almost the entire fellowship went after him and the Incarnae personally got off their celestial Xbox and took the field against him.
Plus hundreds of thousands of Dragon Blooded. Oddyssial didnt fail, he was stopped. Before he had finished building up his base of power.

Now that the Sidraels are broken and DBs are kinda warring among themselves, and much less in numbers. He can finally get the plan back on track.
 
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Neptune said:
force the Exaltation to perform as it did under Odyssial, and that only strength can save this wretched Creation. He will re-orient his priorities accordingly.

This is the vote. I would advise you to read it, specifically the part where Ulyssian will attempt to enter near permanent Limit Break like Odyssial. So no, we will not have control of our actions just like we didn't have control of our actions during this limit break.
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First of all, we do have control during Limit Break; what do you think this vote is, anyway? I'm opposing Embrace, but the text you bolded just means we're attempting to become powerful, to draw on his strength. It absolutely does not mean permanent Limit Break, nor would permanent Limit Break remove all our agency.
 
Orm Embar said:
First of all, we do have control during Limit Break; what do you think this vote is, anyway? I'm opposing Embrace, but the text you bolded just means we're attempting to become powerful, to draw on his strength. It absolutely does not mean permanent Limit Break, nor would permanent Limit Break remove all our agency.
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You could probably make a case for Limit Break improving our agency, because it opens up more courses of action to us. It's Ulyssian unchained, unshackled by morality.

I'm disappointed, but not surprised, that you're balking at this final hurdle. You always were too soft, where Moon is concerned.
 
vel10 said:
...I am pretty sure that does not translate to 'permanent limit break' but rather 'regain Odyssial's memories and power.'

But, just in-case, we can ask @Rihaku if that takes the control of our character away from us and makes us permanently Limit-Broken. I feel like that's rather unlikely, considering that this is a Quest. Quests are about choice.
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It makes us more like Ody aka The guy who saw that his greatest enemies did something to his exaltation and instead of reacting with Horror and/or suspicion wondered why they would give such an awesome gift, shrugged, and repurposed it since it made him more efficient and gave back willpower.
 
VanusDraco said:
I would just like to note that for all that people complain that Oddyssial failed, he only failed because almost the entire fellowship went after him and the Incarnae personally got off their celestial Xbox and took the field against him.
Plus hundreds of thousands of Dragon Blooded.
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Exactly! Odyssial failed because of the opposition, which is all dead or crippled or banished now. We're not doomed to failure if we embrace the will to power, far from it. It makes us more likely to succeed.
 
VanusDraco said:
I would just like to note that for all that people complain that Oddyssial failed, he only failed because almost the entire fellowship went after him and the Incarnae personally got off their celestial Xbox and took the field against him.
Plus hundreds of thousands of Dragon Blooded.
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Yes because he was so obsessed with being "Optimal" that he wound up making an enemy of damn near EVERYONE and almost destroyed Creation before he could use the Lathe.
 
So I read the last four updates in one sitting, and there at the end with Moon and Tepet all I could do was clap my hands and say "Ohmigod holyshit" Just wow. That was absolutely fantastic, just had to laugh out loud when he said "I'm busy" like damn. Damn.


But still...

POWER
UNLIMITED POWEEERRR

[X] Embrace the Clarity
 
I can't really muster much at the moment.

Slaughtering the corrupt Eunuchs is a time-honored tradition of reform in Eastern countries so it's not like I have objections, mind. On the other hand the Limit Break being, basically, Ulyssian/Odyssial trying to determine how they can ascend to become capital-g God is certainly fitting with the hubris theme. And it is somewhat amusing he can't find anything more efficient to do with his body other than slaughter every Vizier in easy range to run down. On the whole I'm like, lol.

Not embracing the Odyssial mindset is hard to justify without giving in to selfishness or otherwise violating utilitarian principles. You either have to not care that all the faceless denizens are dying because Ulyssian's friends and relationships and sanity are more important, or privilege means with moral value beyond simply their place as tools to utilitarian ends. I am inclined to reject this Limit Break but it requires some very careful consideration of why we're doing that, because it means rejecting selflessness or rejecting Odyssial's entire ethical framework.
 
1986ctcel said:
Yes because he was so obsessed with being "Optimal" that he wound up making an enemy of damn near EVERYONE and almost destroyed Creation before he could use the Lathe.
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Once again, we are still in control of the character. Just because we're choosing to reach for power to change the world and save as many lives as possible doesn't mean that we can't take the lessons from the past.

This decision does not throw away such lessons. We almost won last time, we can do it again. And most likely with more diplomacy, less bloodshed, and less pain. Not only because we've gained extra social skills sooner than we did the first time, and fresh perspective, but also because we're facing less opposition.

We can still take the diplomatic path! Especially if we choose to improve our social skills, making diplomacy a more and more optimal path. Odyssial only gained a semblance of social skills near the end, which means it wasn't much of an option the first time.

We're already better at it than that. Improve our diplomatic skills, and the optimal path can involve lots of diplomacy.
 
Diller said:
I have no intention of proving the crazy bitch was right about us. Also it's not worth killing Anys if it means that in the future we could be the ones kill our friends. Imagine if Anys kidnapped Moon to set a trap for us and had limit breaked then. We would've left Moon to her fate or killed her ourself if it meant having a better chance of killing Anys.
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It is unlikely that he would kill Moon in such a scenario. It depends on whether the net total utility of keeping Moon alive is eclipsed by the marginal benefit of improving his chances against Anys by some moderate amount. Since Moon is a powerful Exalt, this is unlikely.

Now, if you act as Odyssial suggests and demonstrate a clear and unassailable policy to never be blackmailed and never let blackmail work against you in the slightest - then Anys simply won't bother kidnapping Moon. Not that kidnapping Moon is by any means easy anyway...

Neptune said:
This is the vote. I would advise you to read it, specifically the part where Ulyssian will attempt to enter near permanent Limit Break like Odyssial. So no, we will not have control of our actions just like we didn't have control of our actions during this limit break.
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vel10 said:
But, just in-case, we can ask @Rihaku if that takes the control of our character away from us and makes us permanently Limit-Broken. I feel like that's rather unlikely, considering that this is a Quest. Quests are about choice.
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Embrace just means that Odyssial will decide that focusing on the governance of one Satrapy is ultimately pointless and that the fastest route to Creation-saving power is instead to forcibly, by whatever means are possible and reasonable, re-integrate as many of Odyssial's memories as he can, as fast as he can. He will then work on and have decision points relating to that, instead of governing Luseng, or trying to do good in the world while he is as weak as he is.

While in Limit Break, Odyssial is completely free of distractions secondary to his Ultimate Purpose, whichever purpose that is. However, it's not practical for him to be in Limit Break all the time, and while outside of it he will still feel pain, remorse, etc for hurting his friends - though he may realistically decide that sometimes such is necessary, or is an acceptable cost to save thousands of lives.
However, most big decisions of that nature will still be up to you guys, though with an appropriate incentive gradient.

Remember, "I must become stronger" is a DEFINING Intimacy for both Odyssial and Ulyssian.

VanusDraco said:
I would just like to note that for all that people complain that Oddyssial failed, he only failed because almost the entire fellowship went after him and the Incarnae personally got off their celestial Xbox and took the field against him.
Plus hundreds of thousands of Dragon Blooded.
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Millions. Millions of Dragon-Blooded. And tens of billions of mortals.

Orm Embar said:
First of all, we do have control during Limit Break; what do you think this vote is, anyway? I'm opposing Embrace, but the text you bolded just means we're attempting to become powerful, to draw on his strength. It absolutely does not mean permanent Limit Break, nor would permanent Limit Break remove all our agency.
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Indeed, there are many meaningful decision points even if Embrace were Permanent Limit Break.
 
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Savonarola said:
Exactly! Odyssial failed because of the opposition, which is all dead or crippled or banished now. We're not doomed to failure if we embrace the will to power, far from it. It makes us more likely to succeed.
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We have to survive long enough to regain Ody's fullpower.

In the meantime Hell and most likely the Underworld and Heaven will be on our asses thanks to Anys. They won't give us the time to get that powerful again.

We don't need to make things potentially harder for ourselves by
Embracing the limit break which increases the chances of us killing our friends for the sake if efficiency. Not only will that alienate people from us but could also create enemies for us.

Zao would turn us faster then you could blink if we ever hurt or god forbid killed Moon because she disagreed with some of the shit we were doing while we limit breaked.

We just had Rihaku tell us Anys might try to subvert Zao against us. Do you want to make things easier for her?
 
Savonarola said:
He came very close to building his ideal world. Is it wrong to want to save the greatest number of people>
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Yes! when you go about it in a pants-on-head retarded way by pissing off huge amounts of people that could be convinced to either assist you of just not get in your way because you were so hyper focused on creating it and not bothering to explain to the "masses" because they "wouldn't understand your genius" it certainly is.
 
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Diller said:
What are you talking about? We turned Lily which means E5. She just isn't near Luseng thanks to the compromise vote.
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You're right I reread the update after our battle and in the after update notes Rihaku said we turned her, what a pleasant surprise! Still the point remains that we are about to fight an E7 Celestial in the near future.
Diller said:
I have no intention of proving the crazy bitch was right about us. Also it's not worth killing Anys if it means that in the future we could be the ones kill our friends. Imagine if Anys kidnapped Moon to set a trap for us and had limit breaked then. We would've left Moon to her fate or killed her ourself if it meant having a better chance of killing Anys.
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Yes? I'm not sure what you're getting at here, no matter what happens we are always going to do great and terrible things when gripped in the throes of Limit Break. Choosing to accept the Clarity just means that we are focused on Odyssial's goal of becoming an omnipotent being capable of re-writing reality into a paradise for all.
 
[x] Snap Out of It

You don't know the things I would do for Sorcery...but not this. Besides, focusing on the short term while Limit Breaking means less of a perspective loss.
vel10 said:
...I am pretty sure that does not translate to 'permanent limit break' but rather 'attempt to regain Odyssial's memories and power.'

But, just in-case, we can ask @Rihaku if that takes the control of our character away from us and makes us permanently Limit-Broken. I feel like that's rather unlikely, considering that this is a Quest. Quests are about choice, not removal of agency.
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We'll still vote, it's just that things will be restricted to Limit Broken actions. Remember that Ody was pretty much limit breaking 25/8.
 
1986ctcel said:
Yes because he was so obsessed with being "Optimal" that he wound up making an enemy of damn near EVERYONE and almost destroyed Creation before he could use the Lathe.
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That's actually not what happened.
If anything, the problem was the other solars screwing around.
Unless Rihaku retconned everything that led up to the Usurpation. You had fuckers like Desus and that Admiral guy Being the worst examples.
 
[X] Resist the Clarity [-250,000 XP of any kind] - You can make no justifiable arguments to defend this option; it is most assuredly a titanic waste of power and will. Nonetheless, the choice is yours. If successful, you will snap out of your current Limit Break. On an exceptional success, future Limit Breaks will confine themselves to optimizing towards the problem at hand, hopelessly short-sighted as that may be. Accept that millions, tens of millions, perhaps hundreds of millions will die that you could have saved. Accept diminishment.

This is the only patch that we can travel, this moment give us enough dissonance between Odyssial and Ulyssian that later can see madness of former, that he became no better than Primodials themselves, an alien power trampling on lives of men without consideration. To truly surpass our old life we must overcome bis true weakness, his hubris, see his mistakes and avoid them. How can we claim to forge better future for mankind if we cast away our own humanity, sacrifice our very self for monomaniacal pursuit of things we no longer truly comprehend.
It's obvious that details of reincarnation were made when Odyssial experienced true clarity of mind instead of madness masquerading as one, why would we have put such emphasis on gaining new experiences before even exalting if not for purpose of stopping this insanity.
Really, lets get rid of at least part of problems Ody left us by beginning to get rid of his fuck up with Great Curse.
 
We must be able to contain Odyssial and finally uncover what happened to the Solars, even in the post-lathe creation, the solars would have been changed eventually with Odyssial's investigation into why all the exalts went crazy at times. Better to get started on that road sooner by accepting to diminish yourself.

[X] Resist the Clarity
 
Diller said:
We have to survive long enough to regain Ody's fullpower.

In the meantime Hell and most likely the Underworld and Heaven will be on our asses thanks to Anys. They won't give us the time to get that powerful again.

We don't need to make things potentially harder for ourselves by
Embracing the limit break which increases the chances of us killing our friends for the sake if efficiency. Not only will that alienate people from us but could also create enemies for us.

Zao would turn us faster then you could blink if we ever hurt or god forbid killed Moon because she disagreed with some of the shit we were doing while we limit breaked.

We just had Rihaku tell us Anys might try to subvert Zao against us. Do you want to make things easier for her?
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While it's possible that Anys might try to turn Zao against us please don't act as if it is at all likely for her to succeed. For her to have even the slightest chance we'd have to do something disasterous to Creation or greatly harm Moon. Meanwhile with the entirety of Creation aligned against us (and thankfully against each other) thanks to Anys we need to increase our personal power as quickly as possible, and deliberately crippling ourselves by throwing away the Crown/500,000 XP and 2x modifier is a great way to be killed by a madwomen. Keep in mind that while embracing the Clarity greatly decreases the effects of our intimacies only the full blown Limit Break seems to completely disregard them so the situations where we'd hurt one of our friends are few and far between.
 
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