[Exalted, ?] Most High

You mean beyond putting up massive earth works to physically redirect the lava flow?
So Uly would be making him build earthworks to contain his lava-blood... while he presumably continues to bleed lava-blood... so he has to build more earthworks to contain that lava-blood... which takes longer, so he bleeds more... which means...
 
I know ;) Was just making a joke about your earlier post, where you said hard men making hard decisions. After I read Athenes version of that, I just can`t take this seriously anymore. I try. But I just can`t :D

About why I really chose the containment. For me, damage to the city and all the thousands that would die are not acceptable. If we master the behemoth, we can lead him away from the city and thus minimize the damage somewhat. But the damage would still be a lot greater than if we chose containment. I just see the city and the mortals within as more valuable than some big beastie.

Or use it to set up earth works to redirect the flow entirely and save the city entirely. ;)

So Uly would be making him build earthworks to contain his lava-blood... while he presumably continues to bleed lava-blood... so he has to build more earthworks to contain that lava-blood... which takes longer, so he bleeds more... which means...

Might want to go reread some things about the option your arguing against. We can apparently order it to close its wounds.
Its a good idea to be well informed on what exactly your arguing against before you do any said arguing.
 
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You mean beyond putting up massive earth works to physically redirect the lava flow?
Well yeah. That's obvious, unless Rihaku has the Behemoth secretly able to control its blood and simply hasn't mentioned it?

Nah not likely.
I don't think the Behemoth is in any state to help with defending the city, even assuming we can get it under control; the most we could do would be to move it away, so that it's no longer bleeding a torrent of lava near our population center. Having it stay around while still wounded is counterproductive, and we have an Earth Aspect or two to help with fortifications. At least I think we do? Sesus Maison (wonder what he or she thinks of us) and Void Scar are the only two named Dragon-Bloods besides Talomar, and neither seems like an obvious Earth Aspect.
 
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Being saved from certain death again isn't as visceral as watching your loved ones die while the Satrap gets a new ride?

Which then goes about saving said lives. Even if it fails its not like the Satrap could have really done something about it anyways. Its not an army its lava. His sword wouldn't have redirected the flow exactly. And be fair. First its not like we didn't just save their lives from a horde of fair folk. Second we are taking care of a threat by making a resource out of it. Third its not going to really hurt us long term or short term to lose less then 1% of our population. Losing less then 1% from this battle alone is already a miracle anyways. We where outnumber by how much again, and out maneuvered, and just generally outclassed except for our general?
 
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Being saved from certain death again isn't as visceral as watching your loved ones die while the Satrap gets a new ride?

Watching some lava (that you can rationalize as not likely to have hit you anyway) as it goes through a canal is not nearly as visceral as watching your satrap tame a skyscraper no. Paradoxically the better we do managing the lava crisis the less of an issue the common people will think it was. The more important people will still be impressed of course, but will they be more impressed than watching us go wrangling? Probably not.

So I really don't think it makes sense argue for containment on those grounds, rather than on the much more solid bearing of being more helpful to the city. Which it probably is, especially if we get sent off to the next hotspot before we can utilize the behemoth for much.
 
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Watching some lava (that you can rationalize as not likely to have hit you anyway) as it goes through a canal is not nearly as visceral as watching your satrap tame a skyscraper no. Paradoxically the better we do managing the lava crisis the less of an issue the common people will think it was. The more important people will still be impressed of course, but will they be more impressed than watching us go wrangling? Probably not.
Oh sure. I'm talking about the casualty figures. A couple hundred casualties compared to tens of thousands is a huge difference when people look back on the feat - it's not like the majority of people are going to even see the wrangling. I suppose the behemoth puttering around afterwards is its own form of advertising, but I guess I'm just not seeing the thing as very useful.

Which then goes about saving said lives.
Maybe.

If it's in any condition to assist, if it can actually close up its wounds since there is apparently no guarentee:
Perhaps it can be somehow convinced to close up its wounds, or at least move away from Luseng.
if the lava hasn't already plowed it's course through the parts of the city in its way by the time it is brought under control, healed, and in a position to provide assistance, and if that assistance can then be provided well by a single large golem (and not, say, having morphed into lava flowing in a wide area or large fires spreading in various directions).

Even if it fails its not like the Satrap could have really done something about it anyways. Its not an army its lava. His sword wouldn't have redirected the flow exactly. And be fair. First its not like we didn't just save their lives from a horde of fair folk.
And? Did you see how fast those cheers were cut off and morale was influenced? Of course people won't blame us - we did what we could.

But it's silly to argue the emotional impact and influence on morale from the scale of the victory is comparable between the containment and mastering scenarios.
Second we are taking care of a threat by making a resource out of it.
Yeah, calculated reasoning like that totally factors into public perception, as opposed to said perception mostly being based on emotional arguments.
Third its not going to really hurt us long term or short term to lose less then 1% of our population.
Mmm, I think it matters a little more than that when the percent in the way also happens to include our armed forces.
 
Poor, poor Drive it Away. You never had a chance.

Vote tally:
##### 3.21
[X] Organized Containment
No. of votes: 21
Guile, meianmaru, SirLagginton, aja318, Van Ropen, LordOfMurder, Serous, Gaudy Guise, Orm Embar, DakkaMania, WorldSlayer, skaro, Pipeman, Yun, a11behringer, Mishco, Nezi karaketas, cyberswordsmen, Aloysius, 1986ctcel, Diller

[X] Attempt to Master It
No. of votes: 15
veekie, Valor, Anasurimbor, Mannan, sithmor, gigantisrex, TMIoverload, CrawlingChaos74, inventive alias, CrossyCross, Dark Lord Bob, Vitaris, Daniel14541, Usernames, Savonarola

[X] Drive it Away
No. of votes: 1
afterthought53
 
So many maybe's and what if's in your arguments Van Ropen. Chiers cut off because the threat wasn't over yet, lava in coming you know. Tell me honestly none-of that rose tinted glass argument you've been doing for a while now. What is more impressive. We tame a behemoth and have it save them or kill it quickly and use Bureaucracy to save them. To me the answer is clearly obvious. One gives the accolades to one guy the other simply has the city take care of the problem. I mean seriously Bureaucracy? Whens the last time that was showy in saving someone? Its very much not heroic. No the people are not going to cheer for the Bureaucracy of all things. Even if the option wins its not an option that is going to cause the people to cheer us on like that.
 
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So many maybe's and what if's in your arguments Van Ropen.
:facepalm:

Those are the implicit assumptions made in your argument that the behemoth will save lives in the city, that I am simply listing out. You're correct though, there certainly are a lot of them.

Chiers cut off because the threat wasn't over yet, lava in coming you know. Tell me honestly none-of that rose tinted glass argument you've been doing for a while now. What is more impressive. We tame a behemoth and have it save them or kill it quickly and use Bureaucracy to save them. To me the answer is clearly obvious. One gives the accolades to one guy the other simply has the city take care of the problem. I mean seriously Bureaucracy? Whens the last time that was showy in saving someone? Its very much not heroic. No the people are not going to cheer for the Bureaucracy of all things. Even if the option wins its not an option that is going to cause the people to cheer us on like that.
No, people aren't going to cheer for bureaucracy. They are going to cheer for "obliterated Fae, saved city...with a couple hundred casualties" more than for "obliterated fae and tamed behemoth, saved city...with tens of thousands of casualties".
 
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Agreed, Odyssial was never about saving lives. His goal has always been to remake the world in his image, and if lives are better in this new world, it is only so as a byproduct of his excellent management.

He wasn't planning on killing everyone with the Lathe, actually. Their souls, or at least as much of them as practical, would likely have been preserved!

Or use it to set up earth works to redirect the flow entirely and save the city entirely. ;)

Might want to go reread some things about the option your arguing against. We can apparently order it to close its wounds.
Its a good idea to be well informed on what exactly your arguing against before you do any said arguing.

It says perhaps, so that sentence is just speculation from Uly. He doesn't actually know whether it's feasible.
 
So many maybe's and what if's in your arguments Van Ropen. Chiers cut off because the threat wasn't over yet, lava in coming you know. Tell me honestly none-of that rose tinted glass argument you've been doing for a while now. What is more impressive. We tame a behemoth and have it save them or kill it quickly and use Bureaucracy to save them. To me the answer is clearly obvious. One gives the accolades to one guy the other simply has the city take care of the problem. I mean seriously Bureaucracy? Whens the last time that was showy in saving someone? Its very much not heroic. No the people are not going to cheer for the Bureaucracy of all things. Even if the option wins its not an option that is going to cause the people to cheer us on like that.
Saving thousands of lives through swift and decisive action, keeping a cool head in a crisis, and demonstrating skill in affairs beyond the purely martial are all praiseworthy things. We've already filled our heroism quota; what does it matter if they see us tame a Behemoth, when we have already slain one and put an army to the sword? No, far better that they come to rely on us in all affairs, not just those requiring blademastery to solve. As we said to Saery, not all problems can be fixed with a daiklave, but we can't be content with focusing on only the things we're talented at. It's easier to secure the confidence of the people concerning such matters now, while they're still formulating their impression of us.

Also, don't underestimate the ungodly power of Bureaucracy Charms. I know they're not in play here, but some of them can be very heroic indeed.
Poor, poor Drive it Away. You never had a chance.
Indeed. You could almost say the option was only included as an... afterthought. *Sunglasses*
 
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[X] Organized Containment

Also, that mental image of the Lathe of Heaven is hilarious- "I'm not going to kill everybody! What kind of monster do you take me for? I just want to make the world a better place by tearing everybody's souls out and mutilating them almost beyond recognition."
 
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[X] Organized Containment

I just don't feel like a possible pet behemoth is worth thousands of mortal lives, not to mention all the damage to the city.
 
[X] Organized Containment

Also, that mental image of the Lathe of Heaven is hilarious- "I'm not going to kill everybody! What kind of monster do you take me for? I just want to make the world a better place by tearing everybody's souls out and mutilating them almost beyond recognition."
Don't worry though, it won't be like that time I did it to the Yozi, I hated those guys!
 
Also, don't underestimate the ungodly power of Bureaucracy Charms. I know they're not in play here, but some of them can be very heroic indeed.
Hmm. Maybe we should get Deft Official's Way and Enlightened Discourse Method the next time we can train, especially if we are going to be raising our Bureaucracy Ability in the future. EDM for example gives half of our Bureaucracy score (rounded up) to social actions in the context of the Ability (like bargaining, diplomacy inside and between organizations, giving orders, etc). Could be quite good for someone as socially crippled as Uly, now that he is a position of leadership.
 
[X] Organized Containment

I just don't feel like a possible pet behemoth is worth thousands of mortal lives, not to mention all the damage to the city.

Don't think of just the Behemoth; think of what it can build!

Don't worry though, it won't be like that time I did it to the Yozi, I hated those guys!

To be fair, Yozis aren't very much like people in that sense.

Hmm. Maybe we should get Deft Official's Way and Enlightened Discourse Method the next time we can train, especially if we are going to be raising our Bureaucracy Ability in the future. EDM for example gives half of our Bureaucracy score (rounded up) to social actions in the context of the Ability (like bargaining, diplomacy inside and between organizations, giving orders, etc). Could be quite good for someone as socially crippled as Uly, now that he is a position of leadership.

Your Bureau score sucks, though! For a Solar Exalted.
 
[X] Organized Containment

A big flashy show underscoring just how far beyond Dragonblooded that Ulyssian really is, topped with a flashy crown saying "ANATHEMA HERE PLZ KILL" strikes me as a terrible idea if the goal is to develop a powerbase in the Realm.
 
With the recent surge for Organized, it looks like that option is in the lead now. Do you guys have any additional ideas for containing the lava, though?
 
With the recent surge for Organized, it looks like that option is in the lead now. Do you guys have any additional ideas for containing the lava, though?
Bah... If we can parry molten fists with no trouble, shouldn't we able to at least use Ambition and our supernal swordsmanship to hold the tide back while the Earth/Water Aspects get into position?

Basically, fence with the oncoming tide of fiery death. If I can't ride the Behemoth, we have to look elsewhere to meet our awesome quota.
 
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