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[Exalted, ?] Most High

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Good insights, Serous, but I personally like the Luseng option more, so I am going to keep my vote on it. On other points, however, I mostly agree.
 
Alectai said:
"Roll vs Artifact Level +2 (10 for an N/A like Ambition), on a success, you instantly and at no cost learn an Evocation that you're eligible to use for it. Then count up how many you got over the difficulty, divide in half, round up, and you get that many more Evocations for the weapon. Once you've bought Evocations equal to the number you already purchased, you can reuse it to grab a bunch more."

Ulyssian has a maxed out base pool for it, and he can certainly use his Fate-Shifting Solar Arete on the roll as well if I'm not mistaken, he can get a Lot of Evocations real fucking quick.
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Wake the Sleeper is Round Down, actually. But since the 3E Difficulty calculation was changed (meeting Difficulty now = 1 success), it's still quite favorable.
 
Robotninja said:
Does Zao have the standing needed to challenge "Hesiah" to a duel? If so, giving him Ambition and letting him wait a year, then challenging Ayns to a duel could work. She expects a DBed. She gets a Solar tier fighter instead.

Or hell, simply assassinate her.
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Can a king challenge Saint John returned from the empyrean sphere?

Anasurimbor said:
[X] Serentidopolis
This one seems more interesting than Luseng, and plays more to our strengths, giving us a better chance to use our recently acquired Arch-Predictionism. I might lean the other way if we had just picked up a bunch of war charms, but we got Lore charms instead. Let's put them to their best use.

It also hopefully gives us a bit more time before shit hits the fan, especially if the most immediate threat is assassination, not rampaging behemoths and three allied armies of doom. Instead we have to worry about intrigue, corruption, and logistics. The only drawback is that we don't have Bureaucracy charms, but I think we can make do with

Still, it's not going to be easy by any means. It wouldn't be an option if it were, but I think it is the more manageable of the two. The other almost feels like a trap for a glory hound Dawn caste.
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Prophet of Seventeen Cycles is extremely useful in a war, as long as it's a large-scale intervention. Any large-scale intervention it does extremely well at.

Alectai said:
Explicitly wrong. Rihaku said that "Playing along" is a high risk, very high reward option, as success would make us virtually inassailable without Anys getting her hands dirty, and by the time it became clear that she'd have to deal with us herself, we'd be strong enough that she couldn't guarantee victory without destroying herself, and still having another terrible enemy now out for revenge in her permanently weakened state. We'd essentially hit a case of Mutually Assured Destruction, where she can't attack either of us without destroying herself, while we become Hero of the Realm.

The problem would be actually winning which would be quite difficult, though not impossible, given as how Ulyssian has a near vertical growth curve (Essence 5 Ulyssian would evidently be a match for Zao). Serentidopolis is an intrigue focused area where we'll be sussing out a conspiracy, and it'd be easier for Anys Syn to arrange our death. Luseng meanwhile basically ensures she won't actively dick with us significantly (Beyond just cutting off reinforcements or othewise denying us support), by dint of her being almost positive that we can't possibly come out ahead against that alliance.

I'm in favor of keeping Ambition if we go to Luseng, and giving it to Moon if we go to Serentidopolis. I'd rather not go full out murderhobo because it would put a lot of our deeds so far to waste, and we're not quite at the point of sunk costs yet, as we can certainly prevail with a good deal of effort, and angle ourselves in a position to make a legit run on the Sword of Creation within a year or so.
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Essence 5 might be a match for Zao, depending on how many Charms you get and how combat-focused they are. You really don't have that many combat Charms right now, though Better Listener and Fortune-Stealing are both somewhat relevant in combat.

LordOfMurder said:
[X] Luseng
[X] Keep Ambition

Isn't this basically exactly what we wanted out of a satrapy. It's straightforward enemies to fight as far as the eye can see which means delicious xp and renown is ours for the taking. So what if Anys Sys is only giving it to us to try and kill us it's still what we were going for anyway. Although we definitely should have killed flame.
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I keep telling you guys... next time you see him, Anys will have straight-up buffed him with the Shogun rite!

Serous said:
Furthermore, Uly's best abilites does not really require him to show his face at Luseng to help out. Both Prophet and God King Strike do not have a range limit on their use, after all, and since Uly does not have any war charms, his impact at battles would be more on the level of his personal combat prowress.
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His personal combat prowess can probably destroy several thousand men per turn! Before he gets exhausted and has to run.

Serous said:
Personally, if its possible, I favour flash buying at least Terrestial Circle Sorcery. The main benefit of flash buying is getting access to the charm without needing training time. However, as a whole most of the charms I believe would be most useful towards Uly take quite a bit of time to show their benefits, and so might not be ideal candidates for flashbuying. Getting TCS would give us Infallible Messenger, which would be vital for allowing us to coordinate our plans with the Academy and the Infernals. And while Anys is almost certainly protected against it, if we have Infallible Messenger as a control spell, we can use Awareness Charms through them, like say, EoTUS.
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Yup.
 
Don't we have three Infernals, the guys invisible to Fate?

Why don't we ask them to arrange for some ulcers for Anys? Like making her claim to be Heshiesh doubtful, or revealing that she is also Mela (I think). She can't beboth at once and may be revealed as a fraud.
 
I've been thinking, should we purchase actual War Charms now? While not the most optimal when compared to something like Lore, at least in the current leaked pdf, they would still be quite useful for fighting in middle of an actual war, and not just making predictions from the backlines.
 
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Rihaku said:
I keep telling you guys... next time you see him, Anys will have straight-up buffed him with the Shogun rite!
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Yo. This is kind of important.

If we stick around in the Realm we are on a definite timer. Anys Syn still has plans she is going to execute. I think we would know from Pearl that using Flame as a messianic figure to right the Realm is the keystone of that plan. Sooner or later she will finish training and buffing him, and he will emerge with the backing of the Immaculate Order to take the throne. The breeding program will begin, the militarization of the Realm will proceed once the Great Houses are broken, and within twenty years the Realm will have a cadre of super Dragonblooded on top of all the other assets and will spread forth in a wave of pacification and extermination across the Threshold.

If we're still playing the politics game once the "Chosen of Hesiesh" emerges we are going to get fucked. And underestimating Anys Syn's willingness to escalate to the most extreme level of action got us into this mess in the first place. She can and will drop a Sidereal Kill Team backed up by a massive Wyld Hunt on Ulyssian as her plan comes to fruition. By that point she can tank whatever political upset it causes with the Great Houses since she'll be breaking them to her will at that time, and the victor gets to write the history of how Sesus Ulyssian was exposed as a vile anathema by the perfect sight of the new Messiah.

So, yeah, this "high risk/high reward" strategy only works for a limited time before we have to launch a coup or start a civil war or expose Anys Syn or have everything we gained from it destroyed.
 
Alectai said:
"Nothing is as terrifying as an old woman with nothing to lose".

She still considers the plan "Salvagable", she probably wouldn't if we killed Flame. This was the "Nuclear Option", but it was still better then the "Creation's fucked, so I don't need to give a shit about consequences anymore" option.

Tacnuke versus a stratnuke, if you will. The only reason she got away with this power grab is because we were too busy Saving the fucking Realm. She just considers her own plan succeeding, and keeping the boot on the neck of other Celestials to be a higher priority than actually preserving a central power--given her remark about "Destruction isn't the worst fate that you can suffer".

In other words, she considers the destruction of the world to be more desirable than a Solar taking power again. Which is kind of strange as it suggests that the Great Prophecy was quite a bit different than it was in canon--as the very reason that the Vision of Bronze prevailed was because it saved the world--and that even the Vision of Gold that failed was still better than the option where they did nothing at all.

That she considers the Vision of Darkness to be more desirable than a failed Vision of Gold in this timeline (Assuming there was a Vision of Gold period), kind of suggests that either the powers that be were fudging the data, or that Odyssial's Plan was Really fucking likely to end in a horrible, screaming disaster if he was nudged the wrong way.

Quite possibly because he had lost context of what a "Better World" would actually entail for someone who isn't Odyssial, or possibly one of his close confidents.
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I think that's just Syn. Growing up in a city ruled by a mad Solar, she is not remotely reasonable on this subject.
 
Rihaku said:
I keep telling you guys... next time you see him, Anys will have straight-up buffed him with the Shogun rite!
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That's actually new. Or at least i don't recall it being mentioned in any arguments before, and I think it would have been. I am honestly surprised Anys Syn has the capacity for that, and that she does implies to me that one of her mystery assets is a celestial sorcerer of some description. Does Flame having the Shogun Buff mean Moon is unnecessary to her plan though?

I'm honestly unsure how that sort of bloodline buff works in conjunction with others. If she's going to do that then they're obviously not mutually exclusive, but does it working properly require better sorcery or something? This seems like her doubling down on the Dumb to me, but that's sorta in character isn't it...
 
Can we get an updated vote count? I'm looking to eliminate some options and hopefully that will let you guys flash buy some stuff before heading off to whatever adventure you decide on!

Guile said:
I think that's just Syn. Growing up in a city ruled by a mad Solar, she is not remotely reasonable on this subject.
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Indeed, just look at what she thinks about Solar power!
 
So I have been thinking about a kind of bland but effective Working, or a set of Workings. Now that we won't have nearly as much time to train as we've had in the Academy, how about a Working that accelerates up necessary Charm training time, maybe even for other Traits too? If we have the time to implement it. Not exactly sure how it would work, but it being limited to certain Abilities Charm trees would make sense on the lowest Circle and Ambition, and maybe even including all traits on SCC with Ambition 3. Would maybe let us blindside Anys with even faster growth speed, even when we actually have less time to train, especially if we wouldn't have to waste so much XP on flash-buying things.

On how to fluff this, it could use the mechanic of making it easier for Ulyssian to access his past life's memories as Odyssial, changing the act from training to more of just remembering skills that he had already mastered in the ages past. As for payment, exceedingly good terms for us were this during the negotiations:
-[ ] Concession S: Ayala will agree to perform one Sorcerous Working for you, at a cost. Terrestrial Workings of Ambition 2 or less can be performed for Resources 3, you provide any needed materials. Celestial Workings of Ambition 2 or less can be performed for Resources 4, with the same conditions.
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So it could be more this time, but with the backing of Zao and our own Resources, it might be possible and worth it.
 
Rihaku said:
Can we get an updated vote count? I'm looking to eliminate some options and hopefully that will let you guys flash buy some stuff before heading off to whatever adventure you decide on!
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Gonna do that now, but on my previous post: If we flash buy TCS, would what I suggested become "cheaper" if we help (and can help with it in the first place)?
 
Vote tally:
##### 3.21
[X] Luseng
No. of votes: 27
Gaudy Guise, aja318, Van Ropen, veekie, Guile, Gerrou, Katreus, Emerald Oracle, Brekouh, Alectai, Dark Lord Bob, afterthought53, Diller, me.me.here, CharlBaal, meianmaru, Valor, BSRK Aditya, vali, Ghost, Celestrail, Daniel14541, useofstrike32, LordOfMurder, jamie96969, TheOtherSandman, aja318

[X] Serentidopolis
No. of votes: 8
trekbook, Robotninja, TMIoverload, Orm Embar, Anasurimbor, cyberswordsmen, Serous, dragon
-[X] bring pearl and nilul with us.
No. of votes: 1
dragon

[X]Fade Away
No. of votes: 3
Thomasfoolery, Da Boyz, Savonarola

[X] Pretend to accept the posting to Serentidopolos, fake your death, meet up with your friends and seek out Lealope.
No. of votes: 8
Usernames, Cavalier, CrawlingChaos74, Vanathor, 1986ctcel, Reckless_Sun, VanusDraco, inawarminister
-[X] Give Fei Ling and Ayala a Great Favor to secure their aid faking Ulyssian's death.
No. of votes: 8
Usernames, Cavalier, CrawlingChaos74, Vanathor, 1986ctcel, Reckless_Sun, VanusDraco, inawarminister
--[X] Attack should obviously point to the Yozis. The Infernals will know ahead of time and shelter or remove their assets.
No. of votes: 8
Usernames, Cavalier, CrawlingChaos74, Vanathor, 1986ctcel, Reckless_Sun, VanusDraco, inawarminister
-[X] Pearl, Nilul, and Moon will exfiltrate from the Academy and meet Ulyssian in the River Province.
No. of votes: 8
Usernames, Cavalier, CrawlingChaos74, Vanathor, 1986ctcel, Reckless_Sun, VanusDraco, inawarminister
-[X] Head out east to find Lealope.
No. of votes: 8
Usernames, Cavalier, CrawlingChaos74, Vanathor, 1986ctcel, Reckless_Sun, VanusDraco, inawarminister
--[X] Buff factions in the River Province standing for Creation and against the Realm with PoSC (Lookshy, Nexus, Great Forks, Marukani Confederation, Sijan, etc) along the way for Resources, influences, support, favors, Artifacts, and etc.
No. of votes: 8
Usernames, Cavalier, CrawlingChaos74, Vanathor, 1986ctcel, Reckless_Sun, VanusDraco, inawarminister
--[X] Also debuff Thorns and the Realm if feasible.
No. of votes: 8
Usernames, Cavalier, CrawlingChaos74, Vanathor, 1986ctcel, Reckless_Sun, VanusDraco, inawarminister

[X] Keep Ambition
No. of votes: 27
aja318, Mannan, Van Ropen, Usernames, Guile, dragon, CrawlingChaos74, Gerrou, Reckless_Sun, Katreus, Brekouh, Alectai, Dark Lord Bob, afterthought53, Diller, me.me.here, meianmaru, Valor, cyberswordsmen, BSRK Aditya, Ghost, Celestrail, Daniel14541, useofstrike32, LordOfMurder, Serous, jamie96969

[X] Don't give Moon Ambition
No. of votes: 1
inawarminister

[X] Lend Moon Ambition
No. of votes: 3
veekie, Orm Embar, Savonarola

[X] Give Ambition to Moon.
No. of votes: 1
CharlBaal

[X] Loan Ambition to Zao
No. of votes: 1
Vanathor

[X] Give Ambition to Zao
No. of votes: 1
Da Boyz

[X] Lend Ambition to Nilul.
No. of votes: 1
Ridiculously Average Guy
 
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meianmaru said:
So I have been thinking about a kind of bland but effective Working, or a set of Workings. Now that we won't have nearly as much time to train as we've had in the Academy, how about a Working that accelerates up necessary Charm training time, maybe even for other Traits too? If we have the time to implement it. Not exactly sure how it would work, but it being limited to certain Abilities Charm trees would make sense on the lowest Circle and Ambition, and maybe even including all traits on SCC with Ambition 3. Would maybe let us blindside Anys with even faster growth speed, even when we actually have less time to train, especially if we wouldn't have to waste so much XP on flash-buying things.

On how to fluff this, it could use the mechanic of making it easier for Ulyssian to access his past life's memories as Odyssial, changing the act from training to more of just remembering skills that he had already mastered in the ages past. As for payment, exceedingly good terms for us were this during the negotiations:

So it could be more this time, but with the backing of Zao and our own Resources, it might be possible and worth it.
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Messing with the Exaltation (which is where the memories are stored) would definitely be High Solar Circle and require multiple workings. Some sort of temporal dilation effect would be better, but since those are no longer native to Creation, you would have to deal with drawbacks either in the form of voluntary Wyld mutation or Yozis shit. The last alternative is some form of nootropic, which would be less effective and require extensive testing to nkw shre you don't screw yourself up, but would have fewer overall drawbacks as long as you test it.

meianmaru said:
Gonna do that now, but on my previous post: If we flash buy TCS, would what I suggested become "cheaper" if we help (and can help with it in the first place)?
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I think asking for information won over asking for a Working from Ayala, so you'd have to give her a favor too.

skaro said:
Why UCS don't harm ody again after his resurrection?. Too busy?.
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Same reason UCS doesn't stop the advance of the Monkey King, or the legions of Balor during the Great Contagion.
 
BSRK Aditya said:
Is Syn really trying to rule the Realm, or is okay with just ensuring Ulyssian's death?
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By all appearances Ulyssian's (or to her perception Zao's) successes have been strong enough, and irritating enough, that she went for the biggest hammer in her arsenal to deal with the problem. In this instance that means she made herself the de facto ruler of the Realm. She's got multiple Great Houses convinced she's Hesiesh, and by all appearances is now spending the majority of her time micromanaging the Realm as its secret ruler. In the face of that one Solar Exalt (who she sees as Zao's catspaw) is small potatoes.

That's what the whole suicide mission thing is about. She's willing to chuck Ulyssian into the meat grinder to kill him and use him up on the Enemies of the Realm rather than deal with him herself.
 
Huh, Luseng is more ahead than I thought. For those of you who aren't voting for Luseng, which is your second choice - Serenti or Cav's write in? Since Cav's write in is basically a descriptive stunt for Fade Away, it is stronger right now since it benefits from Fade Away's votes. I will eliminate the weakest of the options pretty soon.
 
I just want this grand battle royale of legends. And I'mma get it, y'hear?

So, hey guys, what exactly is the Godspear?
And why does Ambition make people into super Exalts?
 
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