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Even Further Beyond [Complete]

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Prospalz said:
If nameless wasn't kind of a spoiled shit, I'd pick incarnation in a hearbeat.

But he is a spoiled shit, and his zanpakuto-analogue is probably going to be unrelentingly horrible to deal with.
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Nameless is quite charming and socially adroit... he talked a lich into giving up its vengeance. He subordinated Suizhen and won over Xiaoling.

Golgotha said:
@Rihaku
If Elysium exists, are we objectively making the Multiverse a better place by culling the Elder Horrors of Reality? Or is the Vault creating them like the Monsters in Jotunheim?
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Possibly, you don't know for sure. A finite reduction of such creatures may not be particularly relevant even if it is occurring.

Shard said:
It's interesting that the natives of both options have difficulty surviving outside their realm. Hints that, perhaps out True Realm is not so True. Perhaps a function of their Accessibility score.
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Could you survive in a realm with different physics? Few have the power or the patrons to manage such a feat.
 
[X] Jotunheim
[X] With Great Power...

We can gain two stage in one year with this choice and even have three months to spare to help the native reality forming.

2 stage give us another 14.46+4 =18.46 stage

Above lowest estimation for 3 power that enough to kill 15+hax heaven.
 
Duquette7 said:
The Immortal is perfectly capable of killing the Heroine, and has lots of powerful exotics, the stageless state we are in until stage 8 however is very limited though.

Heck, all we need to kill her is Azure Flare and a punch to the head, we can easily get that.
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Bad phrasing on my part then, it has been discussed so often I felt no need to be explicit. Yes, he gets awesome and powerful utility effects once he achieves Immortal, but until then things are far more dicey, which is what is relevant for killing the Heroine, as we'd ideally like to off her as soon as possible.

Though what do you mean we can easily get Azure Flare? Immortal synergizes with True Incarnation, but I don't remember if it even makes researching the Grand Diagram of Truth easier, and it definitely doesn't say anything about the Sigil.
 
I am not sure if the Extrusion is a sentient universe that take form of a sword or a sword forged with a universe as materials.....
 
[ ] Jotunheim
+ Hits Immortal Awakening before Zang Kong wakes up
+ Sufficient cultivation speed to make an artifact at Stage VII and still reach Immortal Awakening before Zang Kong wakes. (2 possible, but Spoiled makes it unsafe)
+ Even larger than present world
- Not a good place for preserving an empire

[ ] Elysium
+ Cultivation research (Is this still useful for Immortal Awakening?)
+ Potential source of Diagram spells
+ Potential source of Twice-Great minions
+ Politics may lead to safer acquisition of resources
+ Completely shielded from Fate
+ Enough room to preserve a minor empire (not enough Access to do so efficiently)
- Cultivation multiplier not enough to hit Stage VIII (Immortal Awakening) before Zang Kong wakes up
- Not enough Cultivation speed to keep making artifacts
- Monsters get stronger if Nameless does, risking loss of the civilization within and its derived benefits

[ ] The Extrusion [Heterodox]
+ Bankai?
- Anti-Synergy with Immortal Awakening: now takes 1301.2 months (Stage VII + Stage VIII)
- No Cultivation speed increase
- No storage from Vault
- Forget about making artifacts without more Cultivation boosters
- Take a Reality Mask if you want Titanic stuff, don't sacrifice Vault for it

I may be a little unfair to this option, but its benefits aren't sufficiently described for me to figure out what they are good for. They certainly don't sound as if they are worth the loss of Cultivation speed.


[ ] With Great Power... - Comes great responsibility. He created these Realms, he should see to it that the people within are taken care of to a reasonable degree. Could be time-consuming.
+ Political influence is useful in Elysium.
+ Motivation boost for culling Jotunheim more regularly
- time-consuming

[ ] As It Should Be
+1 BP
- Elysium may fall if Nameless grows too powerful
- Extrusion may not like us?
 
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remember that [] With Great Power... should smooth over at least some of the problems between nameless and his theoretical Zanpakutō so as long as we take that option rather than getting tempted by the greater potential power [ ] As It Should Be offers there probably won't be any problems with our newest party member.
 
It would be funny and sad if we pick The Extrusion and WGP and then one or both of our Lieutenants get jealous that we're giving almost as much attention to our sword as we give to them. In particular, Suizhen's dao is literally "Sky-Splitting Blade" so I can almost imagine her being saddened by the fact that we didn't decide to 'wield' her instead.
 
Alratan said:
Remember that Nameless is Spoiled and Vengeful (and lazy). An extrusion based on his personality could well be an uncooperative dick with a chance of turning hostile if not indulged.

For anyone that's resented having to invest effort in our Lieutenants, this would be that on super-soldier serum.
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I'd say there's a chance it wouldn't be vengeful. Or at least too vengeful. We got that from Baenlixnaire, so it might not count for this. That being said, I don't think it's a good chance for vengeful to not play a role. It'll more likely be a (slightly) reduced effect if getting it from Baenlixnaire rather than originating in ourself matters at all.

It will be reflective of spoiled though, so that could be a issue. But we should be in a state to spoil it, so that wouldn't be too bad.


...And now I can't get the idea of it being a lazy himedere (or some other spoiled archetype) that not only needs to be kept happy, but also is the source of jokes at our expense in variations of Nameless being a total diva at his core (and a huge narcissist). Although that might be a good protection against "Fated Love" to the Heroine that we're bound to be hit with as soon as the Fates can pull it off.
 
I'm not even mad that my least favorite choice won, all of these options are ridiculously cool, same as the last decision point. What a strange sensation, not feeling compelled to argue for fear of what defeat might bring! For now, let's go with this:

[X] Jotunheim
[X] With Great Power...

Jotunheim most closely resembles what we set out to gain from the Vault in the first place. It's a primordial wilderness that will provide challenges that scale with Nameless, a battleground and endless source of high-octane boss fights that will be exhilarating to read about. Elysium doesn't need us; they have the horrors of the Ravening in hand (or at least think they do), but Jotunheim is our hunting ground alone. There, Nameless can learn an appreciation for combat and temper his tremendous power with a warrior's mettle. The Aurora looming overhead, ultimate progenitor of the Doom-Beasts, likely holds further secrets that will be relevant to our development.

The blood of its spawn will also accelerate the growth of our Lackeys (or trivially allow for economic domination of the Empire), who have once more been left in the dust by our rapid ascent. If we get Suizhen up to snuff, we can turn her loose inside Jotunheim and watch the fur fly. 'True battle' is necessary to awaken Sign of the Sword's potential, and I daresay that this qualifies. Speaking of people to throw into the Jotunheim, I wouldn't say no to feeding the Heroine to a Doom-Beast. This permutation is moderately Fate-resistant, so it'll tank her credibility and provide entertainment. A win-win situation; throwing your nemesis into a monster pit is proper Overlord behavior, right?

With Great Power is simply the right thing to do; I refuse to be bribed by the Fates into imitating their indifference. Also, if the Accursed is watching (is he ever not?) we should endeavor to put our best foot forward. The people of Jotunheim aspire to nothing more than survival, but we have heard from our mentor how man first climbed from caveside to wonder at the stars, how humanity seized the world from monsters with fire and spell. Here, we have the chance to replicate that feat, to forge a civilization from raw ore into something worry of awe. Elysium is the end result of such a journey, a truly splendid monument to human achievement, but we have to start somewhere if we want to ditch Spoiled. Jotunheim's denizens actually need our help; an incentive to spend more time farming will outweigh the productivity of a single Beyond Point in the long run.
 
Rihaku said:
[ ] The Extrusion [Heterodox] - It is said that the Ego Barrier of a sufficiently Cultivated self transmutes into a gradient of filtration. Having never undergone Titanic Ascension, Nameless knows little of the process, but understands enough to know that a linked Reality - typically the Titan's Inner Realm - is critical to that process. Nameless has no internal Realm, but he is hardly lacking Realms altogether...

The path of Heterodox Immortality promises power verging on the very limits of the comprehensible, but dare you take so brazen a path? To engineer a world, an entire reality for one's literal aggrandizement, a sword forged from an entire universe - what scope of hubris, what madness is this? Through such means an Immortal aspirant may develop a Titanic Extrusion without adhering to the Titanic path, thereby seizing the best of both worlds. But at what cost?

Truespell Inversion yields a 'Vault' superimposed upon local reality. This space is then compressed and merged via the Heart Rune with Nameless' Ego Barrier, creating a proper Ego Gradient. A Titanic Emanation and Extrusion can thereby be manifested, but this custom-built Realm is not entirely subordinate to Nameless. From adversity comes strength, that is the organizing principle of the Monster Vault, and so too is it here.

Nameless will develop the Emanation and Full Extrusion that most suits his true personality, but he is not guaranteed to like it. With work and understanding, he may someday come to develop the associated Incarnation as well. The manifest soul of a Titan stitched to an Immortal's might: what wonders and horrors might he manifest here?
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Hah. I fucking called it. It is a rare and fortunate day when i manage to predict what Rihaku will do.

Allow me to marinade myself in smug for a day or two.

Oh, and obviously also:

[X] The Extrusion [Heterodox]
[X] With Great Power...
 
The thing about Elysium + Immortal is that Nameless would become a literal god-king (with emphasis on the god part).

And if "With Great Power..." wins Nameless would be a god that exerts a direct influence on his people.

The only real question would be...would Suizhen, Xioaling or the Pure Elven Waifutm ​ be considered the Chief Goddess?

Expect theologians in Elysium arguing debates, priesthoods forming factions, and in-universe Waifu Holy Wars!
 
Yeah though, pretty sure that Elysium's a lost cause, the idea of actually having responsibilities seems to be anathema to this playerbase.

But damnit, it's just so fucking cool of an idea!
 
[X] The Extrusion [Heterodox]
[X] With Great Power...

Considering we took the brainless 'POWER' option last time, there's no reason to go for a pseudo Path of the King now. Go big or go home.
 
[X] Elysium
[X] With Great Power...

Jotunheim would be interesting, but it would be morally reprehensible nearly on the level of Zang Kong to subject the inhabitants of the new universe to such a place. Or at least, it's a slippery slope leading to being as bad as Zang Kong.

The Extrusion is just... boring. It's power for the sake of power. I'd rather have interesting characters and an interesting location.
 
And yeah, if extrusion does get picked, you better actually care about it lol

If it allows BP investment - probably not, but if it does - you'll really want to EFB that.
 
BlueFlamingWings said:
The thing about Elysium + Immortal is that Nameless would become a literal god-king (with emphasis on the god part).

And if "With Great Power..." wins Nameless would be a god that exerts a direct influence on his people.

The only real question would be...would Suizhen, Xioaling or the Pure Elven Waifutm ​ be considered the Chief Goddess?

Expect theologians in Elysium arguing debates, priesthoods forming factions, and in-universe Waifu Holy Wars!
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We are just creator not their god and if we grown up too fast then Elysium is doom.
 
[X] Jotunheim

Man that multiplier. Those cute dangerous beasts! This is objectively perfect!
 
Also, I would note that The Extrusion is useful for more than just More Power (though of course, it is also about More Power). It jump starts our high-level expansion into esoteric effects by about a stage, which is really convenient, particularly if we do manage to make up for the lackluster cultivation multiplier (though, naturally, almost anything that Nameless could get with The Extrusion, he could also get with Jotunheim or Elysium).
 
Speaking of Jotunheim, Nyong essentially creating Overgrowth and then more or less reeling back in horror and mashing the responsibility button because he accidentally built Kong-grade realm of eternal horror and torture is kind of an amusing image.
 
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