Even Further Beyond [Complete]

Nah, we're supposed to send our only non-bitch Lackey there. I don't think Xiaoling would do this even if we asked, since dungeons tend to be uncomfortable, non-luxurious places with merely Hab 5.
Grinding time depends on spawn frequency and on how long a hunt takes. Besides, it can be delegated to Suizhen.

Also, unlike Cultivation, the priceless treasures could be saved for use until after we acquire our Dao, rather than for making artifacts right now.
Palimpest's Cultivation multiplier still applies after we hit Reality Forming - Chronoreactor still functions then.

It's not until Grand Solipist that we'll actually want to seriously speed things up with a Monster Vault. I note that Palimpest does not preclude getting a Beyond Vault - And if we make it at, say, Peak Reality forming, it'll likely be superior in some ways as well.
The post I quoted was suggesting we use those BP to quickly buy Truth and then enter Reality Forming. And I for one would prefer not to invest bare minimum BP in boosting Cultivation level.
I, for one, will be very sad if we spend BPs instead of MM on Truth.
 
The post I quoted was suggesting we use those BP to quickly buy Truth and then enter Reality Forming. And I for one would prefer not to invest bare minimum BP in boosting Cultivation level.
True enough. I myself would like going FB for Philosopher's Stone and EFB for PK. As you said yourself it's visually appealing, and powerful. Sure, the perfecting artifacts won't send us to EFB level for the effects, but it is tempting to see how they'd be improved. Maybe give an additional effect instead of amplifying one?
 
Pilampest straight up multiply our cultivation speed by *2.2,
Which is relatively insignificant. For example
This particular Pearl is especially large and lustrous and would provide noticable Cultivation gains for even an expert of the Reality Forming stage. It can be used inefficiently towards the advancement of lower stages as well: a full quarter-stage for Dao Cleaving, a full half-stage for Soul Chrysalis, and a full Stage (including breakthrough) for those of lower Cultivation.
This is dropped by GS level beasts.
Time spent fighting monsters is still time spent.
Which is why we invested an entire Artifact so we don't need to farm. I've explained this to you more than once, in fact.
Palimpest's Cultivation multiplier still applies after we hit Reality Forming - Chronoreactor still functions then.
And? Are you under impression that Vault will stop working at that point?
 
Unfortunately, due to people wanting to cripple our progression by not deciding on a Dao before getting Truth, spending BP on Truth is a must.
We significantly benefit any non-EFB Dao level by getting Truth before it. It's pretty reasonable to want Truth before progressing given benefits it has.
 
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Disagreed. Time spent gaining the MP isn't lost, it turns into artifacts due to auto-cultivation.
We will grow stronger the higher our Cultivation is, Reality Forming gives us many estoric forms to attack, and the higher our Cultivation stage and effective cultivation stage, the stronger our artifacts become.
 
We will grow stronger the higher our Cultivation is, Reality Forming gives us many estoric forms to attack, and the higher our Cultivation stage and effective cultivation stage, the stronger our artifacts become.

We currently have 1 Mastermind point. We can get the remaining 6 by adventuring for 6 months, along with four artifacts and any rewards from adventuring.

Do you think paying 1 BP per month of time saved is a good deal? Because that's what paying for Truth with BP is. Converting 1 BP into 1 month of saved time.
 
I am begging people, please don't pass on the Palimpsest.

I want this more then any other build vote I can ever recall.
Form of Virtuosity - As the Form of Balance, but instead triples Cultivation speed and the character is treated as one full stage higher for all purposes. As an exemplar of perfect balance, the character attenuates the influence of all external powers near his person, including the manipulations of the Fates. Should he decide to re-seat his mind into his brain, he receives a major bonus to all actions, as if he had spent a Mastermind Point to augment each of his plans individually.

It is the perfect counter to both our main opponents, just achieving the EFB neutralizes the Eye's, and this form totally locks down the Fates.

That alone would be enough, and more then worth a EFB, but it also increases cultivation, raises us a stage, and Masterminds every action we take.

That's what we wanted to get from our Father, don't you want to be the Gamemaster?

Perfect execution of all plans, and total freedom from the Fates Causality effects.

It covers every weakness we have, and every advantage our opponents have over us.

This is priceless.
 
We currently have 1 Mastermind point. We can get the remaining 6 by adventuring for 6 months, along with four artifacts and any rewards from adventuring.

Do you think paying 1 BP per month of time saved is a good deal? Because that's what paying for Truth with BP is. Converting 1 BP into 1 month of saved time.
Four months. Remember the 2 MP straight to 3 MP bonus. And the yearly MP due in two months.

And that's assuming we don't get any +1 MP discussion bonuses and they win. But that's very unlikely considering how you guys like buffing the holder of the Spoiled Bitch Dao.
 
We currently have 1 Mastermind point. We can get the remaining 6 by adventuring for 6 months, along with four artifacts and any rewards from adventuring.

Do you think paying 1 BP per month of time saved is a good deal? Because that's what paying for Truth with BP is. Converting 1 BP into 1 month of saved time.
Technically, we also have that 1 free MM when we finally hit 2 MM. So we just need 5 months of adventuring!
This is dropped by GS level beasts.
I'm comparing to Chronoreactor, which says we go from 4.0 to 4.9 in 1.4 months. With Palimsest it becomes 19 days. Palimsest also boosts all further cultivation we do.

I mean, unless you're proposing our speed would be improved to like 1 week and we can make 52 Titanic Artifacts per year? (At least until we Go Beyond Dao Cleaving.)
 
Which is relatively insignificant. For example
This is dropped by GS level beasts.
Yes, but since Chronoreactor means we Cultivate passively, the time spent on Forging Artefacts is actually very, very small - so doubling the number of Artefacts of Stage+2 we get for essentially "free" is probably a greater boost than the Priceless Treasures that usually aren't even as good as an Artefact of the current Stage. Which means that in the long term, the gains of having Vault between now and when we would next get Vault are far outweighed by the Palimpsest.

I was all over taking the long-term option of a PL farm, but I think the Palimpsest actually ends up being better in both the long term and the short term.
 
I'm comparing to Chronoreactor, which says we go from 4.0 to 4.9 in 1.4 months. With Palimsest it becomes 19 days. Palimsest also boosts all further cultivation we do.
Let's not ignore than, if we truly do find Cultivation time boosters in the Tomb then combined with what Palimsest gives we might manage to go even more insane time.
 
I'm comparing to Chronoreactor, which says we go from 4.0 to 4.9 in 1.4 months. With Palimsest it becomes 19 days. Palimsest also boosts all further cultivation we do.

I mean, unless you're proposing our speed would be improved to like 1 week and we can make 52 Titanic Artifacts per year? (At least until we Go Beyond Dao Cleaving.)

The Monster Vault may very well outperform the multiplier at higher stages.

Check the estimated times here: Nameless estimates it will take at least 19 months at full monetary burn to go from 6.0 to 6.9 and at least 4-5 times that to get to 7.9.

So that's a minimum of 76 months to go from 6.9 to 7.9 with current modifiers.
Now, assuming we had the x2.2 from Palimpset, that becomes 8.6 months for 6.9 and 34.5 months for 7.9.

I'm not sure on the numbers on the Vault Spawning, but if it made a level-appropriate beasty that dropped loot good for +0.25 Stages once per month, that would reduce the time per stage to 4 months. Quite the improvement.
(Numbers given as example, actual spawn rate/treasures may be worse)
 
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Honestly I'd vote for Palimpsest if it wasn't for that thing with the EFB where we move our soul out of the Ring and into our flesh. That's the deal breaker for me, we lose all of our backups since we get totally annihilated by anything that can take us out just once.

There's a big gap between 'won't fall' and 'doesn't suffer loss of capabilities' though. It's not like they stop getting killed off and losing potentially useful artifacts and people while we do other stuff. It's a choice of prioritization and there's always a trade off.
 
I mean, unless you're proposing our speed would be improved to like 1 week and we can make 52 Titanic Artifacts per year? (At least until we Go Beyond Dao Cleaving.)
There's a reason why we are ready to sink two Artifacts, three months of our time, in order to get Vault auto-farming. Why we were ready to instantly acquire Vault instead of making a Magnum Opus. Or why Nameless considered it to be one of possible paths to victory against Kong.
Let's not ignore than, if we truly do find Cultivation time boosters in the Tomb then combined with what Palimsest gives we might manage to go even more insane time.
We know that we can do exact opposite: create Cultivation that takes more time to realize for better effects. Needless to say, this would stack immensely well with crazy ass Cultivation speed we'd get from Vault.

Advantages compounding one on another, instead of seeing yet another EFB and going "ohhhhhh".
 
Honestly I'd vote for Palimpsest if it wasn't for that thing with the EFB where we move our soul out of the Ring and into our flesh. That's the deal breaker for me, we lose all of our backups since we get totally annihilated by anything that can take us out just once.
It also makes it take a lot more to annihilate us. They'd need to completely destroy every cell in our body, and only then would we stop coming back.

Furthermore, we have only got three safe resurrections we can use, and we spawn near the Ring which we hold. any more rez and we give up too much time to both Heroine and Kong. It's worth the minor disads imo.
 
Honestly I'd vote for Palimpsest if it wasn't for that thing with the EFB where we move our soul out of the Ring and into our flesh. That's the deal breaker for me, we lose all of our backups since we get totally annihilated by anything that can take us out just once.
It's hugely unlikely for us to even die in the first place, though.
There's a reason why we are ready to sink two Artifacts, three months of our time, in order to get Vault auto-farming. Why we were ready to instantly acquire Vault instead of making a Magnum Opus. Or why Nameless considered it to be one of possible paths to victory against Kong.
I point out again that we can actually still make that Monster vault.

Selecting Palimpest does not make it gone forever.
 
I point out again that we can actually still make that Monster vault.

Selecting Palimpest does not make it gone forever.
Which would require putting our immense acceleration resource on hold for far lesser acceleration resource and EFB that is not especially stronger than ones we saw so far.

Flesh Diagram is not worth it. It's not worth BPs we'd had to spend on Vault, it's not worth not getting Vault ready to farm as fast as possible, it's not worth forfeiting ability to save Empires in addition or get better Treasures.

It's also not worth turning ourselves into monster and social stigma that follows, but we are pretending that those are of no importance.
 
Which would require putting our immense acceleration resource on hold for far lesser acceleration resource and EFB that is not especially stronger than ones we saw so far.
You are assuming that a 2.2 times multiplier is less than what we'd get from the Vault.
Flesh Diagram is not worth it. It's not worth BPs we'd had to spend on Vault, it's not worth not getting Vault ready to farm as fast as possible, it's not worth forfeiting ability to save Empires in addition or get better Treasures.
We don't need to shove an empire into a vault to save them. Again, the Vault may actually be slower than the 2.2 times Cultivation speed, and it will allow us to unlock unique effects of Kong Eyes quicker for the duration of actually having them.
It's also not worth turning ourselves into monster and social stigma that follows, but we are pretending that those are of no importance.
Probably because we can cast an illusion to hide our appearance.
 
I don't know about you, but i don't fancy talking with Gramps while walking like Kong, talking like Kong, shitting like Kong and having the Eyes of Kong.
We can remove the Eyes of Kong with Palimpsest EFB so I don't see this happening? We're not going back to our clan for at least two-three years till we're eighteen. That's enough time to EFB it while having minimum PK progression.
 
I don't know about you, but i don't fancy talking with Gramps while walking like Kong, talking like Kong, shitting like Kong and having the Eyes of Kong.
Where, pray tell:
*Form of the Elder Beast - Humans created the art of Cultivation, but the human form by no means approaches the optimum for its practice. Using Suizhen's knowledge of Kong Family Techniques and the expertise of the best Heterodox advisors money can buy, Nameless can re-shape the size, number, and allotment of his internal organs to maximize the benefits his physical form can impart to his Cultivation speed. Unsavory effects on outward appearance can be minimized. Grants a major bonus to Eyes of Kong research speed, a minor penalty to complex actions involving the body, and a 120% increase in total Cultivation speed.
Does the description say we look like Zang Kong?
 
Which would require putting our immense acceleration resource on hold for far lesser acceleration resource and EFB that is not especially stronger than ones we saw so far.

Flesh Diagram is not worth it. It's not worth BPs we'd had to spend on Vault, it's not worth not getting Vault ready to farm as fast as possible, it's not worth forfeiting ability to save Empires in addition or get better Treasures.

It's also not worth turning ourselves into monster and social stigma that follows, but we are pretending that those are of no importance.
Flesh Diagram is absolutely worth it. Didn't we get Chronoreactor just so Nameless didn't have to cultivate?

Getting better treasures is largely a case of us getting to Reality Forming and then forging better treasures. It's limited by us getting Truth and then Go Beyond on Dao Cleaving.
No. I'm assuming that it's well bellow what Vault will give us.
That's an unreasonable assumption. We spent like all the time after Diagramming hunting for multipliers like Tyranshal's Amplification and Quickening and then getting Chronoreactor to attain enormous Cultivation multipliers, and when we now have the option to more than double all of that, you say that the Monster Vault, with just 1 Beyond Point, will make all of that redundant?

Monster Vaults adds to our multipliers, it doesn't multiply them.
 
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