DarkKing98
Certified Village Idiot
- Location
- USA
They are obsessed with the mystery box EFB Vault whilst trying to deflect the EFB obsession on voters who want Pampsest. They also think they can stretch Vault FAR beyond what it's actually capable of.
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Even Further Beyond [Complete]
- Thread starter Rihaku
- Start date
- Original
Lealope
Not yet invincible
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Eh. That would require capping off two other values at three, disqualifying them for Artifact support. Better to get as many fives as possible, buff up our Artifice capabilities as far as we can, then boost everything.
Ridiculously Average Guy
I'm you, but stronger
- Location
-
Alright, so. Dao. Dao means Truth. Soon we'll have Truth.
Obviously the ultimate Dao is the Dao of Dao. The Dao of Truth is the ultimate Dao. And yet...isn't there something beyond truth? Truth is simple, it is what is. To go beyond it we must be what could be.
If we wish for the Dao beyond all Dao, we must take the Dao of Lies and make those lies true.
So I ask you, what is a lie that is true? Something that is unshaken even without substance with which to support it? Something that exists yet would be untouched if the whole world was run through a seive?
Belief. It is the Dao of Belief that will take us past the endless sky.
We don't need a mathemetician, what we need is someone who makes magic real in a world without it. We need a magician, a conman, or a priest.
Obviously the ultimate Dao is the Dao of Dao. The Dao of Truth is the ultimate Dao. And yet...isn't there something beyond truth? Truth is simple, it is what is. To go beyond it we must be what could be.
If we wish for the Dao beyond all Dao, we must take the Dao of Lies and make those lies true.
So I ask you, what is a lie that is true? Something that is unshaken even without substance with which to support it? Something that exists yet would be untouched if the whole world was run through a seive?
Belief. It is the Dao of Belief that will take us past the endless sky.
We don't need a mathemetician, what we need is someone who makes magic real in a world without it. We need a magician, a conman, or a priest.
DarkKing98
Certified Village Idiot
- Location
- USA
You guys, for everything you want, need five in every single category BEFORE the artifact boost.
Shard
One and Many
- Location
- Malaysia
FB+Titanic Artifact cannot achieve all of that at the same time.
EFB Vault will be amazing in different ways from Palimpest. EFBs are all amazing, but they are amazing in different ways. Like EFB Crown is amazing, but it's not really useful for taking down Zang Kong. Ditto for EFB Llwen's Might - Even, even essentially perfect immortality wouldn't help us kill Zang Kong very much.
Maybe. That's easy way - with 5/5/5/5/4 it's hard not to get everything we want. However, i wish to get at least one value to 7 before Artifact - so that Value has to start at 3 prior to FB. Usually, I'd tank Sec and Access, but those two are required for combat Vault. Which we need.
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RedV
Refuelling
- Location
- Right here
I think we can safely tank Hab and take Sec 2 Hab 3 all else 5 for a Combat Vault, buffing Hab to 5 and one other chosen value (likely Realm, but Hab 7 both pleases Xiaoling and generates Monsters) when we go Further Beyond.
I mean, sec isn't too useful unless we want Fate resist a lot, and their exist other ways to resist fate. This gets us majority of what we want.
Only worries are having nowhere to keep Xiaoling and Suizhen, but they should be loyal enough to wait for us in a town and can raid one of the rich dungeons more suited to their level by now.
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Shard
One and Many
- Location
- Malaysia
If you tank Hab Monster Vault and Empire Phylactery don't work.
If you tank Sec Fate Attenuation and Combat Vault don't work.
If you tank Size Empire Phylactery doesn't work, then eventually Monster Vault as well.
If you tank Acc Combat Vault doesn't work, then eventually Empire Phylactery doesn't work as well.
If you tank Realm/Sign then Monster Vault and Ivory Tower-esq doesn't work.
DarkKing98
Certified Village Idiot
- Location
- USA
Seriously, why do Vault voters just not understand that they are not going to get everything they desire? The Vault will be incapable of working if you try for all your ideas. You need to stick to two at MOST. Otherwise it just plunges into the realm of inefficiency.
Ridiculously Average Guy
I'm you, but stronger
- Location
-
Seriously though, thoughts?
Lealope
Not yet invincible
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Indeed. We, the Vault Collective, have arrived at a unanimous consensus on exactly what we want, which is conveniently the position that makes us the easiest to argue against for you.
Resistance is futile, you will be outvoted, beep boop.
Mind control important people and have them gather endless resources for us.
Being completely tireless is a pretty good way to increase work ethic, in addition to generally being able to take more risks in adventuring or Cultivation because we're more or less immortal.
Why do we want a Combat Vault again?
I'd be ready to forgo Sign if Hab gave us just as good Monster Farming. Problem is that higher Security is needed for Combat Vault, and limited in usefulness otherwise.
We are not bringing them into Tomb.
Tomb is very dangerous.
That's not a worry if we choose elves, obviously.
DarkKing98
Certified Village Idiot
- Location
- USA
HAH! As if you guys have! You want literally everything! And that's your problem. You can not use Vault efficiently.
Origami Clock
Right twice a day
- Location
- Brighton, UK
Because we are a coalition of voter blocs with different priorities coming together out of a common interest. Due to the increased possibilities of Vault, more people can find something they want to vote for, while Pampliset only has one particular interest bloc voting for it.
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Shard
One and Many
- Location
- Malaysia
What happened to the monster vault? Having a Combat vault makes getting a Monster Vault exceedingly impractical.
FB allows you to get to 5/5/5/5/4, so getting Monster Vault is not an issue.
Now, getting advanced Monster Vault or Monster+Empire while having combat Vault? That's a pain.
DarkKing98
Certified Village Idiot
- Location
- USA
The problem is that with such a divided house you WILL fall. Even if Vault wins now, you have to accept that what you desire is COMPLETELY unobtainable. You can not have 5 in everything, nor is it efficient enough. And so you will fight as you try to figure out what the hell kind of build you guys will get.
Shard
One and Many
- Location
- Malaysia
TBH arguing against Vault feels harder that it should be. Like, it's like arguing against:
Vault Benefits!
All of:
*Monster Farming
*Empire Phylactery
*Throne Room
*Combat Vault
*Fate Attenuation
When in truth it's more like:
Vault Benefits!
One Of:
*Monster Farming
*Empire Phylactery
*Throne Room
*Combat Vault
*Fate Attenuation
Vault Benefits!
All of:
*Monster Farming
*Empire Phylactery
*Throne Room
*Combat Vault
*Fate Attenuation
When in truth it's more like:
Vault Benefits!
One Of:
*Monster Farming
*Empire Phylactery
*Throne Room
*Combat Vault
*Fate Attenuation
RedV
Refuelling
- Location
- Right here
Sign is practically the meat of a combat vault effects-wise and gives us monsters too, so I'm a bit reluctant to drop it. Especially with Realm in FB improving it specifically! We'll lose out on that.
Duquette7
I am Fire, and I am Rain
Don't forget!
Even if we somehow get all the multipliers, and somehow manage to catch up to Kong in 5 to 10 years, Kong is still subject to Fate!
Even the Mighty Stage 4 Titan is bound by the whims of the Divinities, the Overgrowth proves that.
We are Not guaranteed to find another fate neutralizing effect, this is the only one we've seen so far, and if they were at all easy to come by we would not be here! One of the other Dark Lords would have beaten these assholes long sense!
If it was just about pure power then Kong wouldn't need us!
This is only possible through a Grand Sign of the Diagram coupled to Two EFB's as a masterwork of all three magics.
We wont get this again.
The Vault is a great utility effect, and it has some powerful multipliers, though less now with the Chronoreactor, but it has shown us nothing that we truly cant survive without!
What dose it do? A hidden Empire? We don't need the slot for that, hunting for priceless treasures? We can do that in the actual world, in places like the Tomb, and our current fate buff should make us trip over opportunities like that for as long as we have it, its comparable to the Hero's fate, and that was supposed to make Treasure fall like rain!
It can hide the Ring, but we have to take it off, it's a place to keep our Lackeys/stuff in, but we only need the one BP version for that.
Yes the EFB is likely to be incredibly powerful, but all of them are, and what the Vault is based off of, is a Vault! It's a miniature pocket dimension, and as it wont be combat specked, all of it's best effects are going to be limited to the inside of the damn thing! We need more then that!
It's a nice buff, but even the possible mystical effects of an inner world are better expressed by a Titanic Dao, that is what it's for after all.
We can get a substantial amount of the benefits from the Vault with one BP, and an Artifact above our current forging stage.
The Flesh Sign is only viable through this vote.
Even if we somehow get all the multipliers, and somehow manage to catch up to Kong in 5 to 10 years, Kong is still subject to Fate!
Even the Mighty Stage 4 Titan is bound by the whims of the Divinities, the Overgrowth proves that.
We are Not guaranteed to find another fate neutralizing effect, this is the only one we've seen so far, and if they were at all easy to come by we would not be here! One of the other Dark Lords would have beaten these assholes long sense!
If it was just about pure power then Kong wouldn't need us!
This is only possible through a Grand Sign of the Diagram coupled to Two EFB's as a masterwork of all three magics.
We wont get this again.
The Vault is a great utility effect, and it has some powerful multipliers, though less now with the Chronoreactor, but it has shown us nothing that we truly cant survive without!
What dose it do? A hidden Empire? We don't need the slot for that, hunting for priceless treasures? We can do that in the actual world, in places like the Tomb, and our current fate buff should make us trip over opportunities like that for as long as we have it, its comparable to the Hero's fate, and that was supposed to make Treasure fall like rain!
It can hide the Ring, but we have to take it off, it's a place to keep our Lackeys/stuff in, but we only need the one BP version for that.
Yes the EFB is likely to be incredibly powerful, but all of them are, and what the Vault is based off of, is a Vault! It's a miniature pocket dimension, and as it wont be combat specked, all of it's best effects are going to be limited to the inside of the damn thing! We need more then that!
It's a nice buff, but even the possible mystical effects of an inner world are better expressed by a Titanic Dao, that is what it's for after all.
We can get a substantial amount of the benefits from the Vault with one BP, and an Artifact above our current forging stage.
The Flesh Sign is only viable through this vote.
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Yeah, that's my worry as well. In general, if we do decide to go into Tomb i want to FB Vault, so we can get something like Size 5/Hab 5/Realm 7/Access 5/Sec 2 so we can get both effects of high Access and Realm while being easy to transition with Artifacts.
Origami Clock
Right twice a day
- Location
- Brighton, UK
Yes, but we will have still won. Once that happens, we can discuss our own interests and decide upon the choice that has majority support. You are still conflating all of the individual desires of members of the group with the aim of the group overall. Our aim is to make Vault win, no more, and no less, just as yours is to attempt to make Pampliset the chosen option.
Shard
One and Many
- Location
- Malaysia
Splitting the functions of the vault means your vault is ultimately crappier than it otherwise could be.
If you settle on a single function, you could get something really awesomesauce. But tacking on everything just means your vault fulfills them all at 'eh' levels.