Even Further Beyond [Complete]

The problem is the cost you're imposing isn't only on the Dao. It's having 2 additional inefficient 3BP choices that will get us killed in 5 years. Those 9BP could be grown into 10BP, getting an EFB, and then getting 2BP back. We can only get 2-3 EFB in the upcoming years on a medium estimate, and killing one of them without even getting Philosopher-King is not a good trade.
The problem is that all the EFBs I want are realistically not going to be taken. Eyes of Kong is a doomed endeavor, Cultivation EFB isn't well- supported, Flesh Diagram EFB will most likely not be a potential type and hence will not get as much priority as others, and Alvan's Crown is also a pretty lost cause.

Truth was something I cared about, and now it's fairly likely to come to us within a few updates.

Hence I don't see why I should support an EFB-saving endeavour when FB Philosopher's Stone is aesthetically pleasing and harmonic and also seems to be very powerful and nice for my goals, unlike, say, Vault EFB.
 
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Hence I don't see why I should support an EFB-saving endeavour when FB Philosopher's Stone is aesthetically pleasing and harmonic and also seems to be very powerful and nice for my goals, unlike, say, Vault EFB.

We'll get more EFB as time passes. Outside options like Logos will appear again, and Rihaku himself has hinted this by noting we must find EFB to spend on. Moreover, we still have unknown spells like Fate Battle and Essence Grand (if we relearn) as options. EFBs cost 8BP + 2BP of discipline now, which is a great deal--one of our few mercies in this race against time.
 
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We'll get more EFB as time passes. Outside options like Logos will appear again, and Rihaku himself has hinted this by noting we must find EFB to spend on. Moreover, we still have unknown spells like Fate Battle and Essence Grand (if we relearn) as options. EFBs cost 8BP + 2BP of discipline now, which is a great deal--one of our few mercies in this race against time.
Liminal Branch is going to suck our BP first. And putting Vault there may be a good choice but its also not one I much care for. I'd rather push to invest BP in an option that is available now and which I do personally like more. It's okay if Vault wins- I've no doubt it'll be cool, and it is a net positive outcome. But I would rather have any of my first preferences.
 
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I think I must have a part of the conversation here... have the benefits of PK and Truth been revealed? I find it odd that people are arguing over the various benefits of what are essentially mystery boxes with labels.
 
I think I must have a part of the conversation here... have the benefits of PK and Truth been revealed? I find it odd that people are arguing over the various benefits of what are essentially mystery boxes with labels.

Nope!

We didn't even know what True Alchemist did until just now. Just that it was a Beyond state that was "Extremely broad" in scope--and that we can infer the later developments will be expansions on the foundation we set now (Like, if we pick the Grand Diagram now, at Philosopher's Stone, we get an Ascendant Grand Diagram or something. If we pick the Artifact, we use it as a component in an even stronger Artifact along the same lines. If we pick Internalize we... Uh, maybe unlock Chrysopeia? Who knows)
 
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I think I must have a part of the conversation here... have the benefits of PK and Truth been revealed? I find it odd that people are arguing over the various benefits of what are essentially mystery boxes with labels.
Truth has been revealed to, at least:
  • Enhance combat strength by 1.X stages when fully exploited
  • Enhance the ability to choose the most suitable Dao in Dao Cleaving

Philosopher-King's first level, True Alchemist has been achieved, and we're arguing over how to best allocate benefits. I prefer Externalizing into a powerful treasure, but overall majority is to fuse a Grand Diagram into our body.
 
I personally think we should Internalize. An extra effective +0.5 Cultivation stages for all purposes is pretty good.
 
I personally think we should Internalize. An extra effective +0.5 Cultivation stages for all purposes is pretty good.
It is pretty good, especially since people don't want to take Further Beyonds to increase our Artifact-making ability. I'm convinced Externalise is best- the effects of a second Magnum Opus are great, and we get Heavy Counter without being suboptimal- but think Internalise is pretty cool too. It's probably my third choice tho.
 
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I think I must have a part of the conversation here... have the benefits of PK and Truth been revealed? I find it odd that people are arguing over the various benefits of what are essentially mystery boxes with labels.

Rihaku has also mentioned Truth can overturn Fate. Based on it stemming from the Ring, we speculate it's a bunch of very powerful utility effects.
 
We want a Dao that exceeds Kong's endless sky.

But do we need one? We're the Thrice-Great, and most of our power currently comes from artifacts and diagrams. While expansion along the lines of superior Cultivation is the obvious next step, we cannot forget that we lack a great deal of practical information as to how forming and progressing a Dao actually works.

We need one that goes up to Titan for Philosopher King. But beyond that? We have a time limit. A Dao that progresses relatively quickly may be more practical. It isn't like we won't make any more artifacts or diagrams, after all. We need to maximize our force multipliers in the next five years; concerns of Dao must ultimately be subordinate to that.

I personally think we should Internalize. An extra effective +0.5 Cultivation stages for all purposes is pretty good.

But this Mystery Box has a guaranteed Diagram in it! :V
 
I frankly find the aesthetic nature of Liminal attractive- Philosopher King is about combining the various magics and the process directly involves cultivation and creating artifacts to integrate via binary magic, the idea of adding Diagram magic to integrate as well seems 'right'.
 
But do we need one? We're the Thrice-Great, and most of our power currently comes from artifacts and diagrams. While expansion along the lines of superior Cultivation is the obvious next step, we cannot forget that we lack a great deal of practical information as to how forming and progressing a Dao actually works.

We need one that goes up to Titan for Philosopher King. But beyond that? We have a time limit. A Dao that progresses relatively quickly may be more practical. It isn't like we won't make any more artifacts or diagrams, after all. We need to maximize our force multipliers in the next five years; concerns of Dao must ultimately be subordinate to that.
We need something that can let our Cultivation jump up several stages, which we don't have. At this point, majority of our strength is from Cultivation and only some 0.25 combat power from Heart Rune and 0.75 stage from Might. If we choose a path that takes us to minimum Titan level, even if we go 1 BP every previous stage and EFB on Titanic Ascension (far from guaranteed!) Kong will still have Beyond Cultivation equal to ours + Truth + Eyes of Kong + whatever else.

We can't settle for being 2 or 3 Titan Stages below Kong, since we have only around 1 and some change stage increase from Diagram + Artifice so far. Majority of combat power is from Cultivation.

I frankly find the aesthetic nature of Liminal attractive- Philosopher King is about combining the various magics and the process directly involves cultivation and creating artifacts to integrate via binary magic, the idea of adding Diagram magic to integrate as well seems 'right'.
I find the thought of cheating our way into making a Magnum Opus without dying (for the second time!) very fitting for Nameless. Didn't he want to scam the Fates? Scamming them into producing the type of Artifact that is only made with the sacrifice of the creator's life is a auspicious beginning for his chosen path!
 
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Adventure Zone & True Alchemist Focus
The winning vote is [X] Regalia of the Knight-Errant and Liminal Branch. Now it's time to decide on Nameless' next adventure!

[ ] Journey to the West - The Elves have means of drawing entities and objects in from other worlds. From whence does this capability emerge? As the Overlord it is your duty to buttress the empires of this world, great and small, cruel or noble. That the Elves are ostensibly at war with the Labyrinth Empire is no excuse to let them fall. See if you can broker a peace while learning more of Elvish Artifice and Naturalist lore. If the Ming do not accede to the pen, perhaps they will accede to the sword.

*Maybe you can find the Hero the Elves are supposed to have summoned and recruit them before the Heroine goes active
*If the Elves do have some way of contacting your previous world, you could benefit tremendously from gathering the Daoist literature of your civilization. The Empire has something like the Daodejing but its Daoist scholasticism has diverged from Earth's. Maybe the brightest minds of your former world could assist in forming your Dao... ?
*Suizhen and Xiaoling are both happy to go visit the Elves, though for different reasons. Suizhen's Loyalty is too high to be easily increased. Xiaoling Loyalty+
*Somewhat uncertain benefits and rewards. You don't know much of the region.

[ ] Journey to the Center - Best to take advantage of the Overlord's Luck in the part of the world with the most moving parts. Train up for two more months, then carve a bloody swath through the Sects of Imperial Center, seizing their Forbidden Techniques and Priceless Treasures in a wholehearted attempt to capture every Cultivation-relevant resource in this world before investigating alternative measures. You are not so powerful that the Treasures of the Empire would be of insignificant benefit. What are the Sects going to do, petition the Emperor?

*Nameless will train with Suizhen some more, improving his combat skills, and develop a combat-relevant Diagram spell.
*You'll get the second timeskip Mastermind Point, bringing you up to 2 + 1 Mastermind Points.
*You'll almost certainly be able to collect some more Cultivation multipliers, though the degree of benefit may not be as large as your Diagram spells provide.
*You are not so powerful that you can completely defy the other Titans; you will need to maintain at least a veneer of legitimacy lest you bring dishonor upon your Clan.
*Takes more time than the other options.

[ ] Tomb of the Netherine - Part museum, part mausoleum, this relic of a bygone Age was crafted by a species that was ancient when the Diagram was still young. Within are specimens and vestiges from far antiquity, carefully catalogued according to a byzantine logic that resisted even the greatest minds of the Age of Truth. Hidden within its vaults and reliquaries are the secrets of a world endlessly eroded by the Fates, their plaything and theater stage; the secrets of those who have come before.

This most fearsome of Southern Vane's dungeons boasts a horrifying attrition rate even for those masters of the Reality Forming stage that dare venture inside. Whether due to Cultivation-negating arts or elder horrors beyond even their pale, few Cultivators who step foot inside manage to return. After the first Grand Solipsist to venture within failed to return, further Solipsists have avoided the premises, as their lives are too valuable to risk. A single Solipsist can elevate a Clan or Sect to hegemony over hundreds of millions; to squander that power in the pursuit of uncertain rewards is folly. But surely your power would suffice to brush aside even those threats that a Grand Solipsist cannot countenance?

*The tomb moves and is resistant to most methods of tracking. You'll have to spend a Cerebration to locate it.
*Cultivation itself was created from interactions between the magic systems of prior Ages. If you wish to revolutionize your methods of Cultivation, there is no better place to look than the source. However, it could also be a giant waste of time.
*Past survivors have emerged with underwhelming rewards at best. There may not be any Priceless Treasures here at all.
*You are sheltered by Fate and Phylactery, but only the Diagram provides a reliable means of defense against broad forms of esoteric assault. You probably shouldn't bring your Lackeys along.
*Elder Wall, who informed you of the Tomb, says that Banguo visited the dungeon in past centuries. It inspired him to create the Bleak Procession, their rapidly-advancing but fundamentally unstable Dao.

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Liminal Branch has won; the path of Nameless' Alchemy is the transformation of gross data into the shining quintessence of insight. And what product of insight shall be his signature and alchemist's mark, the first culmination of his philosopher's path?

Due to [True Alchemist], your spell of choice will have the Go Beyond effect applied for free. Benefits already included in the descriptions following.

[ ] Vault of the Ur-Pharaoh [Grand Diagram of Space] - What more appropriate Diagram to chart the Alchemist's path than the Vault of the Ur-Pharaoh? Just as the Cultivation stages lead inexorably to the creation of an internal world, so too does the Vault unfold space into a demesne of the caster's liking.
-[ ] Go Further Beyond [2 BPs] - Upgrades the "Sign Augmentation" attribute into the Realm Attribute, allowing for a far broader range of effects. Effects no longer require knowledge of the appropriate Diagram. The Realm's internal time flow can be dilated up to ten times in either direction, but this does not stack with the effects of the Time Sign. All Attributes can now be improved up to Rank 7, but each Attribute above 5 caps another Attribute at 3. Grants four extra Design points.
-[ ] Go Even Further Beyond [9 BPs] - Unknown effect, but Unlocked by choosing this as your [True Alchemist] spell.

[ ] Palimpsest of the Nameless One [Grand Diagram of Flesh] - While Llewyn's Prodigious Might cannot be exceeded in terms of raw biological amplification, the augmentation of existing parts is not the only domain of Flesh. Though it treads brazenly into the grounds of Heterodoxy, there are countless variations of form and quality that the Sign of Flesh can impose on a willing substrate - if one is willing to swallow the heinous risks. As a lich whose mind is no longer housed in his brain, however, Nameless has far more latitude than most.

This Grand Diagram, when inscribed on the flesh, slowly (~weeks) rewrites the caster's genetic code according to a template input at the time of casting. Some examples:

*Form of Balance - Suizhen is not the only one that can get a makeover! While Nameless is already gifted with attractive features, sharp reflexes and strong limbs, he is by no means an exemplar of biological perfection. That can be rectified. While the benefits this form offers are modest, they come with no complications or downsides. Nameless will remain himself, but every physical attribute will be enhanced to the pinnacle of human potential: limbs proportional as the Vitruvian Man's, physically flawless skin tone and bone structure, each organ system interlocking in perfect harmony. Grants a moderate boost to all actions involving the body and a 40% increase in total Cultivation speed.

*Form of the Elder Beast - Humans created the art of Cultivation, but the human form by no means approaches the optimum for its practice. Using Suizhen's knowledge of Kong Family Techniques and the expertise of the best Heterodox advisors money can buy, Nameless can re-shape the size, number, and allotment of his internal organs to maximize the benefits his physical form can impart to his Cultivation speed. Unsavory effects on outward appearance can be minimized. Grants a major bonus to Eyes of Kong research speed, a minor penalty to complex actions involving the body, and a 120% increase in total Cultivation speed. Inflames [Stain of Heterodoxy].

*Form of the Warmain - Physical might translates imperfectly to power as one reaches progressively higher stages, but that does not mean it fails to translate at all. By integrating draconic flesh precursors and vastly increasing body mass, Nameless can become a juggernaut of transhuman muscle and hyperdense chitinous plating, nerves like monstrous spiderwebs granting inhuman reflex speed and redundancy, torso and skull hollowed-out of unnecessary organs to fit ever-larger arrays of Cultivation-enhanced bone, tendon, and sinew. Razor-sharp bone claws, acidic blood, a body plan optimized for redundancy and easy regeneration: a living avatar of war. Grants a bonus to bodily power equal to the character's [Cultivation Stage * .1], upgrades speed of True Regeneration for purposes of recovering from combat damage, and grants a major bonus to combat actions. Cultivating organs are retained so as not to reduce Cultivation speed. You will look like an inhuman monster, but illusions can conceal this.

Of course, any Form but the Form of Balance would be suicidal were Nameless not a Pseudolich.

-[ ] Go Further Beyond [2 BPs] - Deep germline integration of Elven genetic material grants properties superior to that of Half-Elven physiology, adding a half-stage combat boost to all forms. Due to a lack of spiritual presence, the full benefit of this procedure cannot yet be harnessed.
-[ ] Go Even Further Beyond [9 BPs] - The character's soul is transferred and embedded into the Runes comprising this Diagram, fused irrevocably into the body as a whole. The character risks annihilation if his body is ever fully destroyed, but True Regeneration now prevents death until every cell is obliterated. Spiritual integration allows for full exploitation of the soul-dependent Elven physiology; rather than merely altering genes, the character's perfusion of the soul allows them to transfigure the very essence of their Flesh. Not only is the character always considered to be rapidly transforming into their selected Template, improving the speed of their True Regeneration, but they are completely impervious to esoteric attacks affecting or channeled through the body. Even the Eyes of Kong could be edited out of their form, if they so desired. Example Templates:

*Form of Virtuosity - As the Form of Balance, but instead triples Cultivation speed and the character is treated as one full stage higher for all purposes. As an exemplar of perfect balance, the character attenuates the influence of all external powers near his person, including the manipulations of the Fates. Should he decide to re-seat his mind into his brain, he receives a major bonus to all actions, as if he had spent a Mastermind Point to augment each of his plans individually.

*Form of Vehemence - The character embodies the fury of the Divine; his flesh is alabaster carved in a war-god's likeness, the incarnate vengeance of a Divinity laid low by the scheming Fates. He is the Destroyer; by his hand is Armageddon held aloft, and the stroke of his blade is the end of worlds. His blood is the ichor of the divine; dectuple its effective volume for purposes of the Blood Sign and increase all benefits by two full steps. The character is treated as possessing the Sign of the Sword for purely physical actions and his combat strength is increased by three full stages.

[ ] Elvegekere's Protector [Grand Diagram of Stone] - The character animates a golem of immeasurable might. The golem is unfalteringly loyal to its master and has a variety of useful properties. Bound by his blood and essence, the golem's bodily power will never lag more than a half-stage behind its master's. The character may animate a golem from one of these superior materials:

*Jade - The golem gains the aspect of the [Tireless Mandarin], and is possessed of an animating intelligence capable of subtlety, statesmanship, and excellence in the traditional arts. The golem is an able administrator, steward, or even courtesan atop its duties as a warrior.

*Mythril - The golem gains the aspect of [Prowess]; it fights with inspired skill in all realms of combat and is an able tactician, guerilla, or even field general atop its duties as a skirmisher. The golem's combat speed will never lag below its master's.

*Orichalcum - The golem gains the aspect of [Armor]; it forms a suit of magnificent articulated plate that can shelter its caster from harm or operate as an independent agent. The armor's durability is at least a half-stage greater than its master's flesh. While worn it ameliorates the effects of esoteric attacks upon the caster's person by the equivalent of one full stage.

-[ ] Go Further Beyond [2 BPs] - The caster may hybridize this Grand Diagram with a custom Grand Diagram of Blood, Flesh, or Essence to create a golem of truly stupendous power. For example, a Flesh Golem serves as a body double whose physical power is always a full stage greater than that of the caster's, while an Essence Golem might develop its own personal Reality Effects independent of its master's Dao.
-[ ] Go Even Further Beyond [9 BPs] - Unknown effect, but Unlocked by choosing this as your [True Alchemist] spell.

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I am also offering a +.25 BP bounty for a complete, nice, clean-looking character sheet for Nameless as of this vote.
 
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[X] Palimpsest of the Nameless One
-[X] Go Further Beyond

My god. FOrm of Vehemence is so good. Really want this, am super hyped. Plus, we finally develop more original spells!

[X] Journey to the Center

Time to maybe meet the emprah and see what the Winter Labyrinth's deal is.
 
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[x] Vault of the Ur-Pharaoh [Grand Diagram of Space] - What more appropriate Diagram to chart the Alchemist's path than the Vault of the Ur-Pharaoh? Just as the Cultivation stages lead inexorably to the creation of an internal world, so too does the Vault unfold space into a demesne of the caster's liking.

I think there's no reason to go further beyond with it yet when we can do so later?
 

You could have avoided this! You could have just picked Internalize! Or even Externalize...

[x] Vault of the Ur-Pharaoh [Grand Diagram of Space] - What more appropriate Diagram to chart the Alchemist's path than the Vault of the Ur-Pharaoh? Just as the Cultivation stages lead inexorably to the creation of an internal world, so too does the Vault unfold space into a demesne of the caster's liking.

I think there's no reason to go further beyond with it yet when we can do so later?

Indeed, unless you want to benefit from the results of Going FB now. For example, FB Vault gives you a x10 Time Accelerated Realm, which is greater than your Quickening's x6 (though this doesn't help Cultivation speed since you built the Chronoreactor).
 
[X] Journey to the West
[X] Palimpsest of the Nameless One
-[X] Form of Balance
-[X] Go Further Beyond
 
[X] Journey to the West

Acting to save one of the Empires before it's too late.

Not sure about the Diagram to inscribe.
 
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Rihaku, for purposes of Fated Overlord, could you clarify if Truth, Philosopher-King and our current Artifacts qualify for 2 BP refunds?
 
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