Even Further Beyond [Complete]

Valkhir · Mar 5, 2018

Unelemental said:
But we've been told that Scythe doesn't do much for a Cursebearer? He's already too overpowered to really benefit from it.

I mean, I don't know for sure but I wouldn't bet on us becoming stronger than the Chosen One if we both have a similiar timeframe. At least not much more so than a Combat Cursebearer.

If we pick the Elves can't we just try to genocide everything not-elf hoping to catch our target in the collateral, and if we're lucky we can lure out some Scythe targets too. Just raze the continents, problem is that I don't know how strong a Combat cursebearer actually is, is this even a viable plan? No idea.

Chronic · Mar 5, 2018

[X] Cultivation
[X] Cursebearer
[X] The Scales
[X] Trebly Bound
[X] An Age of Glory
[X] Unnamed
[X] Heroic Passions

Currently i am thinking this. Cursebearer is strengthened by the additional one orb of power that accepting the elven deal gives us to even further reduce the number of beings in the world capable of defeating us, and The Scales grants us superlative manipulative and administrative abilities that we can abuse to strengthen and direct the Elven Empire. The Scales in combination with the apocalyptic power of a Cursebearer and the full support of the Elven Empire and its naturalists should also allow us to accumulate Cultivation resources like crazy. And the drawback of The Scales can be lessened by prolonged interaction with elves, who are apparently supernaturally benevolent beings that only have good intentions.

An Age of Glory can also be used to our advantage: The Scales superlative manipulative ability should allow us to cause battles between hero factions before the Heroine comes into play.

The game plan here would be to abuse Elven Support, The Scales and Cursebearer power to massively powerlevel our cultivation until nothing in this world can stand in our way, then hopefully catch the heroine before she can grow into her power.

Rihaku · Mar 5, 2018

I see the Bow is popular, but if you really want to subvert the Age of Glory, your best shot is probably the Scales. Why gamble on a risky Defeat Equals Friendship when you can just manipulate the heroes to your side?

Savonarola said:
 [X] Diagram Magic
[X] The Bow
[X] Cursebearer
[X] Unnamed
[X] Heroic Passions
[X] Trebly Bound

Cursebearers are fucking bullshit. End of story. Teleport around the world, beating the shit out of people and befriending them Naruto-style. Trebly Bound kinda sucks the big one, but the elves aren't dicks, so it's probably okay? Just leverage our absurd firepower into threatening an empire to leave them alone.

Bow proc chance is based on how difficult the struggle is, so if you're just steamrolling people with Cursebearer power it won't do much.

Yeangst · Mar 5, 2018

[X] Plan Bombastic Black Knight
  [X] Thrice-Great (4 orbs)
[X] The Bow (1 orb)
[X] Unnamed (+1 orb)
[X] Heroic Passions (+1 orb)

I'll switch my vote to whatever non-cursebearer vote is leading, if it becomes neccesarily.

Wolfy · Mar 5, 2018

Unelemental said:
Except when it's not. Our ultimate enemy if we take Cursebearer isn't the ridiculous Sister, it's all those fucking Divinities playing with our lives. Diagram is cool and all, but it's not getting us to that tier of power, unlike Cultivation.

Because? Like, why would you even think that Cultivation could beat combination of Diagram and Cursebearer, especially in any kind of relevant timeframe?

Genesys · Mar 5, 2018

Enohthree said:
Well Scythe mentions this

Which seems to say that if we picked Talentless we'd be locked out despite stealing schools worth of magic, so that would go against its full potential.

I mean I'm all for having a build around Cursebearer levels of starting firepower combined with Scythe's ability to steal from enemies killed, with the added benefit that it means that our kill on the one we're trying to kill is final when it happens since Rihaku already said that mere physical body death isn't enough with Diagram magic running around. The trick is figuring out how to pay for it all without screwing over the synergy or shooting ourselves in the foot like Full Bloom does.

If we're dropping Talentless and Full Bloom, then we'll have to pick three of
[ ] Incarnate
[ ] An Age of Glory
[ ] Trebly Bound
[ ] Heroic Passions
Heroic Passions seems the least horrible of these. Trebly Bound or Incarnate are about equally bad. Age of Glory means that we have more Scythe targets, which should be fine.
So, we'd pick either Trebly Bound or Incarnate. Incarnate makes our ability to build a powerbase limited, but if we pick Trebly Bound we will need every bit of time we get to get some passive defenses on the elves. I guess a plus is the distinct "deal with the devil" motif, with a summoned Cursebearer.
If Age of Glory synergizes with Incarnate and we have to face 5-6 heroes, including the nemesis, within a year, I think we can't make it. @Rihaku, is this a thing?
Anyway, I'm leaning more towards Trebly Bound here. Your opinion?

Da Boyz · Mar 5, 2018

[X] Plan I'm Totally an Elf Lord

OctarineShrike · Mar 5, 2018

[X] Cursebearer (4 orbs)
[X] The Scales (2 orbs)
[X] Unnamed
[X] Heroic Passions
[X] Trebly Bound

We get access to whatever artifacts elves may have left. We get the skills to wrangle elves. Elves are beings someone with scales may be able to stand. We also get phenomenal combat power.

Edit: Realized I missed an orb. We still get Elvish Artifacts this way though.

Reckless_Sun · Mar 5, 2018

Nine Death Mode On! Beyond Nightmare, Zerg or DIE! Gives up all slowly build up power for a burst of speed early on right as the Savior is out adventuring. We kill the other heroes first because they do not benefit from In Full Bloom or Incarnate, we megaman their powers then leverage it against the savior.

[x] Scryth (-3)
[x] Cursebearer (-4)
[x] Incarnate (+1)
[x] An Age of Glory (+1)
[x] In Full Bloom (+2 orbs)

Da Boyz · Mar 5, 2018

Reckless_Sun said:
Nine Death Mode On! Beyond Nightmare, Zerg or DIE!

[x] Limit Break (-1)
[x] Guardian Beast (-2)
[x] Scryth (-3)
[x] Cursebearer (-4)
[x] Unnamed (+1)
[x] Incarnate (+1)
[x] An Age of Glory (+1)
[x] Trebly Bound (+1)
[x] Heroic Passions (+1)
[x] In Full Bloom (+2 orbs)

Again that's too many disadvantages, we can only have 4 orbs from them.

Savonarola · Mar 5, 2018

Rihaku said:
Bow proc chance is based on how difficult the struggle is, so if you're just steamrolling people with Cursebearer power it won't do much.

Gotcha, let's switch this up a bit:

 [X] Diagram Magic
[X] The Sword
[X] Cursebearer
[X] Unnamed
[X] Incarnate
[X] Heroic Passions
[X] Trebly Bound

Ordinarily picking Incarnate is full-on madness, the shit that ends with memes of dudes getting kicked into wells. But we're a fucking Cursebearer. We can handle her powering up a bit. The Bow is bad with Cursebearer powers? Fine. Pick the Sword, so we can be an actual, no-shit tactical genius. Add teleportation and we're memetic Creed. Max drawbacks, son.

Rihaku · Mar 5, 2018

Chronic said:
And the drawback of The Scales can be lessened by prolonged interaction with elves, who are apparently supernaturally good beings that only have good intentions.

You'll become racist against non-elves!

Well, Elves diminished by Artifice tend not to be so terribly noble. But they also tend to be crazy.

Genesys said:
If Age of Glory synergizes with Incarnate and we have to face 5-6 heroes, including the nemesis, within a year, I think we can't make it. @Rihaku, is this a thing?

Those options do synergize, but it just means their adventures will begin within a year instead of eighteen. It'd probably still take them a few years to grow powerful enough to challenge a Combat-type Cursebearer. Depends on the other Drawbacks you take.

Yeangst · Mar 5, 2018

[X] Plan I'm Totally an Elf Lord

Drasky · Mar 5, 2018

It doesn't matter if Diagram and Cursebearer beats Cultivation. One is 5 Orbs, the other is 1 Orb.

It's just Orb inefficient and gives the hero many unnecessary benefits.

Bludflag · Mar 5, 2018

Unelemental said:
Except when it's not. Our ultimate enemy if we take Cursebearer isn't the ridiculous Sister, it's all those fucking Divinities playing with our lives. Diagram is cool and all, but it's not getting us to that tier of power, unlike Cultivation.

No, not really. Original - Even Further Beyond

E: Cursebearing alone makes us one of the top few powers on the continent. We're mostly a toy by dint of this job being a thing at all.

Unelemental · Mar 5, 2018

Wolfy said:
Because? Like, why would you even think that Cultivation could beat combination of Diagram and Cursebearer, especially in any kind of relevant timeframe?

Because Cultivation is explicitly said to be more powerful even in the middling levels? Diagram gives us more abilities, but if Cursebearer doesn't get us to the level of the Divinities from the very beginning, it's not going to do that either. Having a million superpowers is meaningless when our enemies can wish them out of existence with a thought.

In the end, Cultivation is specifically designed for personal advancement, unlike other systems.

Dark Abstraction · Mar 5, 2018

drasky said:
It doesn't matter if Diagram and Cursebearer beats Cultivation. One is 5 Orbs, the other is 1 Orb.

It's just Orb inefficient and gives the hero many unnecessary benefits.

4 orbs, not 5.

~~Anyway, I am seriously confused why so many people are picking Reincarnation when it burns every single moment of our 18 year head start.~~

Edit: My mistake, got Young Master mixed up with Reincarnation.

Wolfy · Mar 5, 2018

Unelemental said:
Because Cultivation is explicitly said to be more powerful even in the middling levels? Diagram gives us more abilities, but if Cursebearer doesn't get us to the level of the Divinities from the very beginning, it's not going to do that either. Having a million superpowers is meaningless when our enemies can wish them out of existence with a thought.

In the end, Cultivation is specifically designed for personal advancement, unlike other systems.

.. which is perfectly irrelevant because there is a world of difference between Diagram multiplying human mage and Diagram multiplying a damn Cursebearer.

Like, fact that you need middling levels to compare to Diagram multiplying human mage should be very telling.

Drasky · Mar 5, 2018

Dark Abstraction said:
4 orbs, not 5.

Anyway, I am seriously confused why so many people are picking Reincarnation when it burns every single moment of our 18 year head start.

Diagram is 1 Orb, Cursebearer is 4 Orbs. 5.

George · Mar 5, 2018

[X] Reincarnation (1 orb)
[X] Cultivation (1 orb)
[X] The Sword (2 orbs)
[X] Unnamed

A mysterious expert with unerring instincts, ancient skills, and unparalleled talent? Truly formidable! As a youth we can surely impress a sect with our talent and fight off any peers, carrying us relatively safely to our reintegration which will let us seek out the cultivation resources necessary to challenge the dread force of protagonism.

It may well be unwise to take even a single extra orb, but I think they are well spent here and the cleverness required for success with 3 orbs is daunting - best to draw things out a little with a careful amount of extra power. But to take more than 4? I think the boons of the Divinities if we were that bold are simply too terrifying to conscience.

Chronic · Mar 5, 2018

You know what, i am just gonna go ahead and name my plan something:

[X] Plan Elven Superweapon
- [X] Cultivation
- [X] Cursebearer
- [X] The Scales
- [X] Trebly Bound
- [X] An Age of Glory
- [X] Unnamed
- [X] Heroic Passions

Still think The Scales synergizes terribly well with Cultivation, Trebly Bound and An Age Of Glory, while Cursebearer gives us the power to immediately take control of the Elven Empire and start to hog all the great cultivation resources.

Rihaku · Mar 5, 2018

You get extra orbs in exchange for allowing her requests to be fulfilled. She doesn't get extra orbs of her own on top of those requests.

Bludflag · Mar 5, 2018

Da Boyz said:
Again that's too many disadvantages, we can only have 4 orbs from them.

We can get seven orbs from drawbacks (the first paragraph of drawbacks described it). Because In Full Bloom grants two and there are seven drawbacks in total, that means there are eight orbs for possible taking. Naturally, no one would choose that, so we have six automatically. There are also some other less than great ideas like letting her adventure within the year. So, what, the max is five or so?

Valkhir · Mar 5, 2018

[X] Plan Elven Superweapon

George · Mar 5, 2018

Dark Abstraction said:
4 orbs, not 5.

Anyway, I am seriously confused why so many people are picking Reincarnation when it burns every single moment of our 18 year head start.

I believe it's Young Master that does that, not reincarnation.

Rihaku said:
You get extra orbs in exchange for allowing her requests to be fulfilled. She doesn't get extra orbs of her own on top of those requests.

Ohh, are the Drawbacks her requests?

Even Further Beyond [Complete]

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